S
Stevelee
measekite wrote:
The same war has been fought for so many times and yet it is
started again. Please stop fighting.
The same war has been fought for so many times and yet it is
started again. Please stop fighting.
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H
Hecate
Thanks, I'll remember that (well, actually, I'll write it down -I usually buy from MX2 but have been caught out a few times (I'm a lousy
administrator!). Cartridge World in Fleet can often supply from stock but
has had to get them from another branch a couple of times. When that
happens, someone drives over and delivers them to me! Excellent service.
memory doesn't improve with age <g>).
--
Hecate - The Real One
(e-mail address removed)
Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
A
Arthur Entlich
Some considerations about the supposed statistics:
1) very few people who buy new printers will use anything but the OEM
inks they came with. For those who use their printers only moderately,
those cartridges can last 6 months or more.
Often people will continue using OEM inks until their warranty runs out,
out of fear that the manufacturer may not honor the warranty otherwise
(whether true or not),. These people will often not bother posting to
newsgroups should their printer clog, but instead will just return the
printer for repair or replacement under warranty.
2) Further, printers, especially those with semi-permanent or permanent
heads, tend to clog after the first year or use, as ink builds up under
the head, or on the cleaning station, This is when people have switched
to 3rd party inks.
3) Some people using 3rd party inks refill their cartridges, and do so
poorly, or the cartridges are designed to make refilling correctly
difficult. Also, refilling adds addition risk of contamination of the
ink which may cause clogs, or foaming within the cartridge, which can
appear as a clog.
Use of proper hygienic refilling and other techniques, using the correct
(non-generic) inks, storing inks and using them within reasonable expiry
dates, and so on certainly eliminates many of the problems that can be
associated with refill inks and 3rd party formulations.
4) Some inks are garbage. Smart people will ask around on newsgroups
about which distributors and retailers can be trusted, offer good
warranties and customer support, etc. SOme inks will not provide the
same features as OEM. For instance some Epson inks are pigment colorant
based and yet "compatibles "may be dye or dye/pigment hybrids. ASK
before you buy. If you don't get a straight answer look elsewhere.
5) For some, buying 3rd party cartridges that are of virgin manufacture
may be a better choice than refilling or buying commercially refilled
cartridges. These may cost a bit more than the refills, but may be less
likely to cause difficulties.
6) Many OEM inks are made in the same factories with very similar
formulations as 3rd party inks. OEM inks have been known to also cause
clogging or fading, or other issues. In the majority of cases your
warranty is NOT revoked by use of 3rd party inks. The manufacturer has
the onus of proving the inks you used did damage the printer. If they
can prove it, go back to the 3rd party ink supplier and demand they fix
your printer! If they refuse, and you aren't at fault for poor
technique, publicize who they are to protect others from having problems
with that ink.
7) The most common problem I hear about with 3rd party inks is
mislabeling. This can include the wrong ink type in the bottle or
cartridge or even the wrong color. Although that's rare, don't rule it
out as a possible cause. Most 3rd party ink suppliers make or supply
many ink types and mistakes sometimes get made. In general 3rd party
ink suppliers will go out of their way to right a situation of that
nature should it occur.
8) OEM inks are usually good quality. They are quit costly and the
manufacturer directly approves of the formulation and puts their name on
it. Anyone who wishes to maintain use of OEM inks should be left to do
so without recrimination. Some inks cannot be replicated by 3rd party
manufacturers in terms of features or colors. People who by OEM inks
help supply the R&D and manufacturing costs of printers, and without
them, printers would be more costly, maybe even much more so. Remember
that.
9) We are lucky that in the current climate, each of us can find the
level of cost we wish to bear and make purchasing decisions based upon
our comfort and economic considerations.
Art
1) very few people who buy new printers will use anything but the OEM
inks they came with. For those who use their printers only moderately,
those cartridges can last 6 months or more.
Often people will continue using OEM inks until their warranty runs out,
out of fear that the manufacturer may not honor the warranty otherwise
(whether true or not),. These people will often not bother posting to
newsgroups should their printer clog, but instead will just return the
printer for repair or replacement under warranty.
2) Further, printers, especially those with semi-permanent or permanent
heads, tend to clog after the first year or use, as ink builds up under
the head, or on the cleaning station, This is when people have switched
to 3rd party inks.
3) Some people using 3rd party inks refill their cartridges, and do so
poorly, or the cartridges are designed to make refilling correctly
difficult. Also, refilling adds addition risk of contamination of the
ink which may cause clogs, or foaming within the cartridge, which can
appear as a clog.
Use of proper hygienic refilling and other techniques, using the correct
(non-generic) inks, storing inks and using them within reasonable expiry
dates, and so on certainly eliminates many of the problems that can be
associated with refill inks and 3rd party formulations.
4) Some inks are garbage. Smart people will ask around on newsgroups
about which distributors and retailers can be trusted, offer good
warranties and customer support, etc. SOme inks will not provide the
same features as OEM. For instance some Epson inks are pigment colorant
based and yet "compatibles "may be dye or dye/pigment hybrids. ASK
before you buy. If you don't get a straight answer look elsewhere.
5) For some, buying 3rd party cartridges that are of virgin manufacture
may be a better choice than refilling or buying commercially refilled
cartridges. These may cost a bit more than the refills, but may be less
likely to cause difficulties.
6) Many OEM inks are made in the same factories with very similar
formulations as 3rd party inks. OEM inks have been known to also cause
clogging or fading, or other issues. In the majority of cases your
warranty is NOT revoked by use of 3rd party inks. The manufacturer has
the onus of proving the inks you used did damage the printer. If they
can prove it, go back to the 3rd party ink supplier and demand they fix
your printer! If they refuse, and you aren't at fault for poor
technique, publicize who they are to protect others from having problems
with that ink.
7) The most common problem I hear about with 3rd party inks is
mislabeling. This can include the wrong ink type in the bottle or
cartridge or even the wrong color. Although that's rare, don't rule it
out as a possible cause. Most 3rd party ink suppliers make or supply
many ink types and mistakes sometimes get made. In general 3rd party
ink suppliers will go out of their way to right a situation of that
nature should it occur.
8) OEM inks are usually good quality. They are quit costly and the
manufacturer directly approves of the formulation and puts their name on
it. Anyone who wishes to maintain use of OEM inks should be left to do
so without recrimination. Some inks cannot be replicated by 3rd party
manufacturers in terms of features or colors. People who by OEM inks
help supply the R&D and manufacturing costs of printers, and without
them, printers would be more costly, maybe even much more so. Remember
that.
9) We are lucky that in the current climate, each of us can find the
level of cost we wish to bear and make purchasing decisions based upon
our comfort and economic considerations.
Art
M
measekite
NOJon said:67.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Now, what about all the other points that you've managed to ignore? Do we
take that as a sign that you have no response because you are forced to
agree?
Jon.
M
measekite
Burt said:(snip)
Mr. "stinky" has either been reading the inflated testimonials from the OEM
cult's prayer meetings, doesn't have a firm grasp on how to count beyond
the number of fingers on one hand,
I just use my middle finger and multiply. Faird
or has simply made up these numbers. He
certainly didn't get these numbers from this NG.
YES I DID
NO YOU ARE NOTSince I am a charitable
soul,
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that this
was simply a typo.
NO IT WAS NOT
If I had the time (yes, retired people have other things
to do besides correct erronious postings in newsgroups)
YOU DO
M
measekite
BUNDERBARJon said:Please don't try to drag me into your monomaniacal anti-third-party ink
campaign.
It has nothing to do with damage. I sell limited edition prints which, to
comply with the Fine Art Trade Guild's guidelines, must be printed using
the same ink and paper combination throughout the edition. I started
producing them using Epson inks and either Hahnemuhle Photo Rag or
Bockingford Inkjet Watercolour papers, so I have to stick with those
combinations.
GOOD
I'd like, very much, to use the wider-gamut Lyson inks, so may eventually
get another printer to start new editions on.
Jon.
M
measekite
Stevelee said:measekite did not write:
The same war has been fought for so many times and yet it is
started again. Please stop fighting.
F
Frank
measekite said:I just use my middle finger and multiply. Faird
YES I DID
NO YOU ARE NOT
NO IT WAS NOT
YOU DO
You've been warned about your abusive postings before and now I'm
warning you about you constant, habitutal lying in this ng.
Stop it else or face the truth.
No more lying!
Got it.
Frank
M
measekite
Frank said:You've been warned about your abusive postings before and now I'm
warning you about you constant, habitutal lying in this ng.
Stop it else or face the truth.
No more lying!
Got it.
Frank
DROP DEAD
F
Frank
J
Jon O'Brien
Now, what about all the other points that you've managed to ignore? Do
we take that as a sign that you have no response because you are
forced to agree?
Where's your rebuttal, then?
Jon.
M
measekite
Frank said:Not before you're gone loser.
Frank
Yes U R
J
Jon O'Brien
Now, what about all the other points that you've managed to ignore?
Do we take that as a sign that you have no response because you are
forced to agree?
Where's your rebuttal, then?[/QUOTE]
Still waiting to hear your rebuttal of the points you disagree with.
Jon.
M
measekite
I do not care to waste my time on it.Jon said:Still waiting to hear your rebuttal of the points you disagree with.
Jon.
B
Burt
Jon O'Brien said:Where's your rebuttal, then?
Still waiting to hear your rebuttal of the points you disagree with.
Jon.[/QUOTE]
Jon - how many years do you have to wait? When faced with the facts MK
reverts to type and simply spouts innane one-liners or taunts. Expect no
reasoned dialog.
M
measekite
Burt said:Jon - how many years do you have to wait? When faced with the facts MK
reverts to type and simply spouts innane one-liners or taunts. Expect no
reasoned dialog.
JON,
How many years do you have to wait? When faced with the facts burtie
reverts to type and simply spouts pages of diatribes or taunts. Expect un
reasoned dialog.
J
Jon O'Brien
[/QUOTE]Still waiting to hear your rebuttal of the points you disagree with.
I do not care to waste my time on it.
As I thought. All mouth and no trousers (all hat and no cattle, for US
readers).
You've got plenty of time you don't mind wasting on your anti-third-party
ink crusade, plenty to waste on your trite and unsubstantiated responses
to intelligent postings, plenty to waste on childish insults, but none to
waste when you realise you've made a fool of yourself by spouting rubbish.
Again.
Why don't you spend your time on something important, like getting a life
or learning how to ride your bike without training wheels, instead of
wasting it on continuously trying to prove what an idiot you are? The
job's done. You don't need to do it again.
Jon.
M
measekite
Jon said:As I thought. All mouth and no trousers (all hat and no cattle, for US
readers).
NO IT IS ALL PANTIES AND NO JOCK STRAP
You've got plenty of time you don't mind wasting on your anti-third-party
ink crusade,
MY CHOICE DARLING
plenty to waste on your trite and unsubstantiated responses
to intelligent postings,
NOT FROM DA CHURCH
plenty to waste on childish insults,
LOOK AN FRANKIE WANKIE AND BURTIE FURTIE
I DDDDDDDDDA DOOOONT KAREbut none to
waste when you realise you've made a fool of yourself by spouting rubbish.
Again.
Why don't you spend your time on something important, like getting a life
or learning how to ride your bike without training wheels,
OR WHACKING OFF
instead of
wasting it on continuously trying to prove what an idiot you are? The
job's done. You don't need to do it again.
Jon.
U GOT IT WRONG. IT IS U WHO KEEP ANSSWERINGME THAT ARE DA IDIOTS. I
BAIT U SHMUCKS AND U KEEP INSULTING AND ABUSING ME. IT IS U WHO NEEDS TO
GET A LIFE.
EXCEPT FOR DA HIGH SCHOOL KID I DINK THE REST OF YOU ARE RETIRED OLD
FOOLS IE GRUMPY OLD MEN. ONLY JACK LEAMON AND WALTER MATHAU WERE KOOL
J
Jon O'Brien
I BAIT U SHMUCKS...
So, just for the record, you're saying that your original post:
OEM inks cause fewer problems than aftermarket ink.
OEM inks are sold in all marketing channels.
With OEM inks you know who the mfg/formulator is.
With AfterMarket Inks
Most vendors will not tell you who the mfg/formulator is.
Most vendors fail to fully disclose all of the information concerning
what you are buying.
Many outright lie or make claims that are distorted.
Most of the aftermarket inks are used by hobbyists and tinkerers.
They are like a cult.
Some cost almost as much as OEM"
was a troll and contains no truth whatsoever?
Jon.
M
measekite
Jon said:So, just for the record, you're saying that your original post:
was a troll and contains no truth whatsoever?
Jon.
WOW --- I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD. SPEAK NICE TO ME OR YOU WILL BE DAMNED
FOR EVER
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