Truth

[measekite]

OEM inks cause fewer problems than aftermarket ink.

OEM inks are sold in all marketing channels.

With OEM inks you know who the mfg/formulator is.

With AfterMarket Inks
Most vendors will not tell you who the mfg/formulator is.

Most vendors fail to fully disclose all of the information concerning
what you are buying.

Many outright lie or make claims that are distorted.

Most of the aftermarket inks are used by hobbyists and tinkerers.

They are like a cult.

Some cost almost as much as OEM

 

[Jon O'Brien]

OEM inks cause fewer problems than aftermarket ink.

However, some people have no problems with third-party inks while others
experience lots of problems with the inks sold by their printer's
manufacturer.

OEM inks are sold in all marketing channels.

Though inks for less popular printers can be hard to come by in some
places.

With OEM inks you know who the mfg/formulator is.

No you don't.

With AfterMarket Inks
Most vendors will not tell you who the mfg/formulator is.

Most printer manufacturers won't tell you who makes their inks.

Most vendors fail to fully disclose all of the information concerning
what you are buying.

Just like the printer manufacturers. Exact ink formulation is a trade
secret.

Many outright lie or make claims that are distorted.

Just like the printer manufacturers.

Most of the aftermarket inks are used by hobbyists and tinkerers.

And by high-volume professional users, who invest in continuous inking
systems.

They are like a cult.

Cults attempt to brainwash people into believing what they say by constant
repetition. They rely on people becoming so bored with hearing the same
thing over and over again that they tune-out the voice, allowing the
message to by-pass rational though and impinge on the subconscious
directly. Just as you seem to be doing.

Some cost almost as much as OEM

Some cost almost as much to develop and all manufacturers attempt to
maximise profit, to the limit of the market's forbearance.

Jon.

 

[Taliesyn]

measekite wrote:

Most of the aftermarket inks are used by hobbyists and tinkerers.

They are like a cult.

Definitely. Once drawn into the cult you become totally obsessed with
aftermarket inks and can talk about nothing else but aftermarket inks.
In fact you don't even have to use them to be drawn in and be terminally
possessed with the idea. The addiction is in the thought of it - like
sex. You don't ever have to have sex to be totally obsessed with it.
This is scientific/psychological fact.

Welcome to the aftermarket ink cult, Measekite! You can check out
anytime you like but you can never leave*.

-Taliesyn (thanks to The Eagles* for their memorable line of wisdom)

 

[Frank]

OEM inks cause fewer problems than aftermarket ink.

OEM inks are sold in all marketing channels.

With OEM inks you know who the mfg/formulator is.

With AfterMarket Inks
Most vendors will not tell you who the mfg/formulator is.

Most vendors fail to fully disclose all of the information concerning
what you are buying.

Many outright lie or make claims that are distorted.

Most of the aftermarket inks are used by hobbyists and tinkerers.

They are like a cult.

Some cost almost as much as OEM

None of the above is factually correct. Measekite doesn't understand the
printer/ink market at all.
He pretends to know but actually knows nothing about ink formulation,
manufacturing, distribution or marketing
Don't believe a word he says!
Frank

 

[Burt]

OEM inks cause fewer problems than aftermarket ink.

OEM inks are sold in all marketing channels.

With OEM inks you know who the mfg/formulator is.

With AfterMarket Inks
Most vendors will not tell you who the mfg/formulator is.

Most vendors fail to fully disclose all of the information concerning what
you are buying.

Many outright lie or make claims that are distorted.

Most of the aftermarket inks are used by hobbyists and tinkerers.

They are like a cult.

Some cost almost as much as OEM

A few of these statements are correct, but most of them are not. It
reflects the fact, admitted by Measekite, that he has never purchased any
aftermarket inks or done business with any of the vendors who sell them. It
is, for the most part, a set of statements that simply reflect his bias in
an area where he has no experience. I don't understand why he so adamantly
attacks these products when many of us know from our own experience that
some of them are excellent and available at considerably lower cost. In my
most recent posting to answer a participant's question about inks he
followed my message by snipping out the names of the products some of us had
found to be safe to printers and a good color match. He appears to be intent
on preventing others from receiving the information they have asked for and
also intent on preventing people from making these purchases. By preventing
people from knowing what products experienced users have had success with he
makes it more probably that they will buy a product that is less safe for
their printers and/or a poorer color match. In other words, if he can't
prevent them from using these material, he purposely or inadvertantly tries
to keep them in the dark so they will buy inks or carts elsewhere that will
be problematic. This forum is supposed to be a helpful place for those who
write in with questions or problems with printer related issues.

 

[measekite]

However, some people have no problems with third-party inks while others
experience lots of problems with the inks sold by their printer's
manufacturer.

Very Very Few

Though inks for less popular printers can be hard to come by in some
places.

Buy a popular printer. There are only 3 that are worthwhile
considering. Epson, HP, and Canon

No you don't.

Yes you do

Most printer manufacturers won't tell you who makes their inks.

They don't have to

Just like the printer manufacturers. Exact ink formulation is a trade
secret.

You are being ridiculous

Just like the printer manufacturers.

Then sue them for false advertising

And by high-volume professional users, who invest in continuous inking
systems.




Cults attempt to brainwash people into believing what they say by constant
repetition.

Da Church of Da AfterMarket Latter Day Inkies

They rely on people becoming so bored with hearing the same
thing over and over again that they tune-out the voice, allowing the
message to by-pass rational though and impinge on the subconscious
directly. Just as you seem to be doing.




Some cost almost as much to develop

Not really true

 

[measekite]

None of the above is factually correct. Measekite doesn't understand
the printer/ink market at all.
He pretends to know but actually knows nothing about ink formulation,
manufacturing, distribution or marketing
Don't believe a word he says!
Frank

None of the above is factually correct. Frank doesn't understand the
printer/ink market at all.
He pretends to know but actually knows nothing about ink formulation,
manufacturing, distribution or marketing
Don't believe a word he says!

 

[measekite]

A few of these statements are correct,
snip


It
reflects the fact, admitted by Measekite, that he has never purchased any
aftermarket inks or done business with any of the vendors who sell them. It
is, for the most part, a set of statements that simply reflect his bias in
an area where he has no experience. I don't understand why he so adamantly
attacks these products when many of us know from our own experience that
some of them are excellent and available at considerably lower cost.
snip

This forum is supposed to be a helpful place for those who
write in with questions or problems with printer related issues.

 

[Burt]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again measekite uses the "snip" to eliminate the parts of my message he
disagrees with - essentially changing the message. This is continued
harrassment. Again I will ask him to simply leave my message intact and
respond with any comments or criticism he wishes to make. That is the
honest approach to participation in a NG and permits any participant who
reads the thread to understand each poster's point of view. If Measekite
wants us to respect his point of view he needs to show respect for others.

Here is my original message that measekite edited:

A few of these statements are correct, but most of them are not. It
reflects the fact, admitted by Measekite, that he has never purchased any
aftermarket inks or done business with any of the vendors who sell them. It
is, for the most part, a set of statements that simply reflect his bias in
an area where he has no experience. I don't understand why he so adamantly
attacks these products when many of us know from our own experience that
some of them are excellent and available at considerably lower cost. In my
most recent posting to answer a participant's question about inks he
followed my message by snipping out the names of the products some of us had
found to be safe to printers and a good color match. He appears to be intent
on preventing others from receiving the information they have asked for and
also intent on preventing people from making these purchases. By preventing
people from knowing what products experienced users have had success with he
makes it more probably that they will buy a product that is less safe for
their printers and/or a poorer color match. In other words, if he can't
prevent them from using these material, he purposely or inadvertantly tries
to keep them in the dark so they will buy inks or carts elsewhere that will
be problematic. This forum is supposed to be a helpful place for those who
write in with questions or problems with printer related issues.

 

[measekite]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again measekite uses the "snip" to eliminate the parts of my message he
disagrees with - essentially changing the message. This is continued
harrassment.

No it is not. I learned about snip from you and your friends. If you
do not like it that is too bad. You seem to think that you own this
place. Guess What. People have different opinions and are tired of all
of your Bullshit. Just cause you are a retired old fart with too much
time on your hands that is not my problem. I like short posts.

 

[Burt]

No it is not. I learned about snip from you and your friends. If you do
not like it that is too bad. You seem to think that you own this place.
Guess What. People have different opinions and are tired of all of your
Bullshit. Just cause you are a retired old fart with too much time on
your hands that is not my problem. I like short posts.

I will respect your opinions when you respect mine. I have always left your
posts alone and responded to them. That way, others can see your point of
view and mine together and understand what each of us has to say. When you
alter mine, whether by changing them as you have in the past or by snipping
out the parts you disagree with, you have still changed the level of
dialogue and take away MY freedom of expression. That, Measekite, is a
continuation of the harrassment I have faced from you for several months.
The snip is not intended for changing other peoples messages and you damned
well know it. It is intended to leave out previously posted parts of a
thread that have no bearing on the latest message. Time is not the issue,
my age is not the issue, long or short posts are not the issue - the issue
is honesty and civility. I don't see anyone else but you complaining about
my "Bullshit". In fact, I see many people complaining about yours. The
only complaint I have received, both on the NG and in personal messages to
my email address, is to stop responding to your constant attacks on me so
that you might get tired of talking to yourself and go away. You have a
right to be here just like I have. You just don't have the right, per your
ISP agreement, to continually change my posts, either by changing the words
or by snipping out parts, to change the message or its intent. That, my
inconsiderate friend, is harrassment. Live and let live.

 

[measekite]

I will respect your opinions when you respect mine. I have always left your
posts alone and responded to them. That way, others can see your point of
view and mine together and understand what each of us has to say. When you
alter mine, whether by changing them as you have in the past or by snipping
out the parts you disagree with, you have still changed the level of
dialogue and take away MY freedom of expression. That, Measekite, is a
continuation of the harrassment I have faced from you for several months.
The snip is not intended for changing other peoples messages and you damned
well know it. It is intended to leave out previously posted parts of a
thread that have no bearing on the latest message. Time is not the issue,
my age is not the issue, long or short posts are not the issue - the issue
is honesty and civility. I don't see anyone else but you complaining about
my "Bullshit". In fact, I see many people complaining about yours. The
only complaint I have received, both on the NG and in personal messages to
my email address, is to stop responding to your

snip

I think you should follow that advice. I am tired of you.

 

[Frank]

None of the above is factually correct. Frank doesn't understand the
printer/ink market at all.
He pretends to know but actually knows nothing about ink formulation,
manufacturing, distribution or marketing
Don't believe a word he says!

Hey bozo! You've been warned by your current ISP about changing the
content of others postings.
We will all again file formal complaints of abuse to your ISP. Are you
aware that eventually you'll no longer be about to log on to the
Internet because you are blacklisted by every ISP?
Are you aware of this fact?
Frank

 

[Jon O'Brien]

However, some people have no problems with third-party inks while
others experience lots of problems with the inks sold by their
printer's manufacturer.

Very Very Few

Do you even bother to read messages posted in this group? There are lots
of people here saying they never have trouble with third-party inks and
plenty that get problems with 'the genuine article'.

Buy a popular printer. There are only 3 that are worthwhile
considering. Epson, HP, and Canon

Great advice: don't buy the best printer for the job, buy a popular one.

I use an Epson 2100, the only printer which would do what I needed at the
time I bought it. None of the big name computer warehouses around here
sell cartridges for it. Neither do the few independent shops. There's one
place fairly close I can sometimes get Epson cartridges for it but often
have to wait for one or more colours to be delivered. As it happens, the
shop in question belongs to the UK's largest third-party cartridge and
refilling chain!

Yes you do

As I understand it, some manufacturers farm out ink production and
packaging to third-party companies. I'm happy to be proved wrong on this
but it would take someone with more credibility (i.e. some) than you to do
it.

They don't have to

No one is suggesting that they have to. The point was that there's little
difference between the printer manufacturers and the third-party vendors
in that regard, so your comment is biased because it presents only one
side of the equation.

Exact ink formulation is a trade secret.

You are being ridiculous

I suggest that you back up that statement by contacting the printer
manufacturers and asking them for details of their ink formulations. Once
you've posted their replies here we can continue this conversation.

Then sue them for false advertising

What's your point? Are you suggesting that printer manufacturers don't
make distorted claims? If so, you must either be incredibly naive or a
fool.

Not really true

Tell Lyson that. http://www.lyson.com/ukhome.html

Jon.

 

[Jon O'Brien]

I like short posts.

Then why quote a whole message to post a 12 word comment?

Jon.

 

[measekite]

Hey bozo! You've been googo by your current
googoaboutchangingthecontentofothers postings.
We will all againfil formalcomplaintsof abus toyou ISP. Are you aware
that eventually you'll no longer be abouttolog on to the Internet
because you are blacklisted by every ISP?
Are you aware of this fact?
Frank

ARE U

 

[measekite]

Do you even bother to read messages posted in this group? There are lots
of people here saying they never have trouble with third-party inks and
plenty that get problems with 'the genuine article'.

452 users over the past 2 months had printer problems and they were
using NON OEM inks. 3 people had problems using OEM inks but they went
for a long while without printing and 2 of them used AfterMarket inks prior.

That tells me someting.

 

[Frank]

452 users over the past 2 months had printer problems and they were
using NON OEM inks. 3 people had problems using OEM inks but they went
for a long while without printing and 2 of them used AfterMarket inks
prior.

That is the biggest lie you've yet to tell and everybody know it.
Frank

 

[Frank]

ARE U

Well you stupid moron you are the one how started changing everyones
post and continues to do so. You've left a trail that is easy to follow
(just like a slug does).
So everytime you change anyones post, a formal complaint is filed with
your ISP.
We are watching you!
Frank

 

[CWatters]

I use an Epson 2100, the only printer which would do what I needed at the
time I bought it. None of the big name computer warehouses around here
sell cartridges for it. Neither do the few independent shops. There's one
place fairly close I can sometimes get Epson cartridges for it but often
have to wait for one or more colours to be delivered. As it happens, the
shop in question belongs to the UK's largest third-party cartridge and
refilling chain!

Hi Jon,

I've also got an Epson 2100. I would be interested to know if you have tried
refilling the carts or using 3rd party carts and where you got them from.
Thanks.

Colin