Steal this O.S.

N

norm

Richard said:
Netscape died because their Internet browser was crap, and everyone of
importance knows that. Microsoft just kicked them when they were falling.

Would you please enlighten those of us who evidently are not important
as to who "everyone of importance" is, and, more so, who/what determines
that "everyone" is important? No doubt there are differing opinions, but
to just blithely make such a statement seems to ignore much of what
actually happened. Does illegal use of monopoly power by ms ring any
bells as to what really happened to netscape?
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f2600/v-a.pdf
Looks like far more than just a little kick by ms. YMMV.
 
R

Richard Urban

A short blurb from Wikipedia will suffice. Look for the rest on your own. I
will not waste time on a dead browser.

"Netscape could not compete with this strategy. Meanwhile, it faced
increasing criticism for the bugs in its products; critics claimed that the
company suffered from 'featuritis' - putting a higher priority on adding new
features than on making them work properly. The tide of public opinion,
having once lauded Netscape as the David to Microsoft's Goliath, steadily
turned negative, especially when Netscape experienced its first bad quarter
at the end of 1997 and underwent a large round of layoffs in January 1998."



--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
R

Richard Urban

I don't think that anyone here, including most MVP's, will deny that the
pricing is too high.

The main concept of this thread, I believe, has been whether you steal
because you can't afford to buy.

I don't.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
B

Bruin

James Colbert said:
Not necessarily. There are those out there who are still running 98SE and
are completely happy with it. There are many who will continue to do so,
and even more who will remain with XP, which won't be obsolete for quite
some time to come (at least for many). I happen to be a technophile and
want the latest technology, but not everyone is like that, and they will
be perfectly happy remaining with XP for another 2, 3 years or more. Not
everyone will feel REQUIRED to use Vista. Nor are they.




Doubtful. In spite of what some say in here, I've been running Vista for
several months now, and have been running RTM since it RTM'd. Very stable,
responsive and elegant, and although there are a few minor bugs and some
things I don't care for, overall, I like it and will be sticking with it.
Some of my machines will continue to run XP to serve my purposes, but
Vista will be the OS for my main machines.

Oh come on now, only my 70 year old Aunt Cathy & others like her can stay on
98SE. I had to upgrade to XP several years ago, due to one particular
program I needed to run that claimed to run on 98SE but would not. Now
days I have several programs that require XP that I can't do my job without.
Any hardcore computer user will be forced into it, sooner or later,
hopefully later.

As I have stated in this thread, 2-3 years is my estimate (as is yours), & I
will be dragged, kicking/screaming into Vista. Hopefully not before SP2.
BTW found a student version, upgrade Home Premium for $89.00. Wonder how
much my student bookstore will charge for it? My latest XP cost $15,
comes with 64, & can be installed on three separate machines. Ongoing
education programs have their benefits!

BTW, double Mac's market share in the U.S. & it's still under 7%.
 
B

Bruin

Richard Urban said:
I don't think that anyone here, including most MVP's, will deny that the
pricing is too high.

The main concept of this thread, I believe, has been whether you steal
because you can't afford to buy.

I don't.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Actually my point is that I am angry. Angry as hell at MS (yet again).
Only this time I am fed up! If I could, if the programs I need to run on a
daily basis ran on a Mac or Linux, I would switch. What I am is pissed off
enough to say "****-im, I am not paying this go around". They went too
far this time.
 
N

norm

Richard said:
A short blurb from Wikipedia will suffice. Look for the rest on your
own. I will not waste time on a dead browser.

"Netscape could not compete with this strategy. Meanwhile, it faced
increasing criticism for the bugs in its products; critics claimed that
the company suffered from 'featuritis' - putting a higher priority on
adding new features than on making them work properly. The tide of
public opinion, having once lauded Netscape as the David to Microsoft's
Goliath, steadily turned negative, especially when Netscape experienced
its first bad quarter at the end of 1997 and underwent a large round of
layoffs in January 1998."
That explains it all. Thanks. lol
 
A

arachnid

A short blurb from Wikipedia will suffice. Look for the rest on your own.
I will not waste time on a dead browser.

Too late. :blush:)
"Netscape could not compete with this strategy. Meanwhile, it faced
increasing criticism for the bugs in its products; critics claimed that
the company suffered from 'featuritis' - putting a higher priority on
adding new features than on making them work properly. The tide of
public opinion, having once lauded Netscape as the David to Microsoft's
Goliath, steadily turned negative, especially when Netscape experienced
its first bad quarter at the end of 1997 and underwent a large round of
layoffs in January 1998."

So how come you didn't quote the previous paragraph that reveals the
strategy that Netscape "could not compete with" to be an anticompetitive
attack by the MS monopoly?

Here it is:

: Microsoft released version 1.0 of Internet Explorer as a part of the
: Windows 95 Plus Pack add-on. According to former Spyglass developer
: Eric Sink, Internet Explorer was based not on NCSA Mosaic as commonly
: believed, but on a version of Mosaic developed at Spyglass.[5]
: Microsoft quickly released several successive versions of Internet
: Explorer, bundling them with Windows, never charging for them,
: financing their development and marketing with revenues from other
: areas of the company. This period of time became known as the browser
: wars, in which Netscape Communicator and Internet Explorer added many
: new features (not always working correctly) and went through many
: version numbers (not always in a logical fashion) in attempts to outdo
: each other. But Internet Explorer had the upper hand, as the amount of
: manpower and capital dedicated to it eventually surpassed the resources
: available in Netscape's entire business. By version 3.0, IE was roughly
: a feature-for-feature equivalent of Netscape Communicator, and by
: version 4.0, it was generally considered to be more stable. Microsoft
: also targeted other Netscape products with free workalikes, such as the
: Internet Information Server (IIS), a web server which was bundled with
: Windows NT.

By 1998 Microsoft had already deprived Netscape of a considerable amount
of its "air supply" for several years, thus starving the company of
sales and thus the R&D funds necessary to implement features that could
compete in the marketplace with an already-bundled IE. In struggling to
stay alive, Netscape tried to implement the features necessary to compete
with IE, but lacked the R&D funds to follow through. These are the "bugs"
you refer to and were not the norm for the company in healthier times.
In other words, Microsoft was unable to compete technically with
Netscape until it had killed the company by back-door means. The period
you cite was just before the dregs were sold to AOL in November of 1998.

The anticompetitive means by which Microsoft strangled Netscape are well
documented in the DOJ antitrust trial. Only a few are mentioned in
passing in the Wikipedia article on the trial. Links on the actual
wikipedia page lead to more-detailed documents, testimony, and evidence:

: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
:
: The trial started in May 1998 with the U.S. Justice Department and the
: Attorneys General of twenty U.S. states suing Microsoft for illegally
: thwarting competition in order to protect and extend its software
: monopoly. Later, in October the US Justice Department also sued
: Microsoft for violating a 1994 consent decree by forcing computer
: makers to include its Internet browser as a part of the installation of
: Windows software. During the antitrust case it was revealed that
: Microsoft had threatened PC manufacturers with revoking their license
: to distribute Windows if they removed the Internet Explorer icon from
: the initial desktop, something that Netscape had requested of its
: licensees.
:
: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by
: a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his
: deposition. [1] He argued over the definitions of words such as
: "compete", "jihad", "concerned", "ask", and "we". [2] BusinessWeek
: reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory
: answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the
: presiding judge had to chuckle. Worse, many of the technology chief's
: denials and pleas of ignorance have been directly refuted by
: prosecutors with snippets of E-mail Gates both sent and received." [3]
: Intel Vice-President Steven McGeady, called as a witness, quoted Paul
: Maritz, a senior Microsoft vice president as having stated an intention
: to "extinguish" and "smother" rival Netscape Communications Corporation
: and to "cut off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of
: Netscape's flagship product for free. The Microsoft executive denied
: the allegations.
:
: A number of videotapes were submitted as evidence by Microsoft during
: the trial, including one that demonstrated that removing Internet
: Explorer from Microsoft Windows caused slowdowns and malfunctions in
: Windows. In the videotaped demonstration of what Microsoft vice
: president James Allchin's stated to be a seamless segment filmed on one
: PC, the plaintiff noticed that some icons mysteriously disappear and
: reappear on the PC's desktop, suggesting that the effects might have
: been falsified. Allchin admitted that the blame for the tape
: problems lay with some of his staff "They ended up filming it --
: grabbing the wrong screen shot," he said of the incident. Later,
: Allchin re-ran the demonstration and provided a new videotape, but in
: so doing Microsoft dropped the claim that Windows is slowed down when
: Internet Explorer is removed. Mark Murray, a Microsoft spokesperson,
: berated the government attorneys for "nitpicking on issues like video
: production." Microsoft submitted a second inaccurate videotape into
: evidence later the same month as the first. The issue in question was
: how easy or hard it was for America Online users to download and
: install Netscape Navigator onto a Windows PC. Microsoft's videotape
: showed the process as being quick and easy, resulting in the Netscape
: icon appearing on the user's desktop. The government produced its own
: videotape of the same process, revealing that Microsoft's videotape had
: edited out a long and complex part of the procedure and that the
: Netscape icon wasn't placed on the desktop, requiring a user to search
: for it. Brad Chase, a Microsoft vice president, verified the
: government's tape and conceded that Microsoft's own tape was
: inaccurate.
:
: <snip>
:
: Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
: stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
: systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
: actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java,
: Netscape, Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on April
: 3, 2000, he issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law were that
: Microsoft had committed monopolization, attempted monopolization, and
: tying in violation of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act, and his
: remedy was that Microsoft must be broken into two separate units, one
: to produce the operating system, and one to produce other software
: components.
:
: <snip>
:
: APPEAL
:
: On September 26, 2000, after Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact,
: in order to save time the plaintiffs attempted to send Microsoft's
: appeal directly to the Supreme Court. However, the Supreme Court
: declined to hear the appeal and sent the case to a federal appeals
: court. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously overturned Judge
: Jackson's rulings against Microsoft on browser tying and attempted
: monopolization on grounds, that he gave off-the-record, but
: nevertheless disclosed, interviews to the news media during the case,
: and that Judge Jackson having opinions about the defendant was
: improper. Judge Jackson's response to this was that Microsoft's conduct
: itself was the cause of any "perceived bias"; Microsoft executives had
: "proved, time and time again, to be inaccurate, misleading, evasive,
: and transparently false. ... Microsoft is a company with an
: institutional disdain for both the truth and for rules of law that
: lesser entities must respect. It is also a company whose senior
: management is not averse to offering specious testimony to support
: spurious defenses to claims of its wrongdoing." However, the appeals
: court did affirm in part Judge Jackson's ruling on monopolization. The
: D.C. Circuit remanded the case for consideration of a proper remedy for
: "drastically altered scope of liability" that the court had upheld,
: under Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly. The DOJ, now under the
: administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, announced on September
: 6, 2001 that it was no longer seeking to break up Microsoft and would
: instead seek a lesser antitrust penalty.
 
R

Richard Urban

I didn't quote it because I told where it came from. Anybody with half a
brain....................

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



arachnid said:
A short blurb from Wikipedia will suffice. Look for the rest on your own.
I will not waste time on a dead browser.

Too late. :blush:)
"Netscape could not compete with this strategy. Meanwhile, it faced
increasing criticism for the bugs in its products; critics claimed that
the company suffered from 'featuritis' - putting a higher priority on
adding new features than on making them work properly. The tide of
public opinion, having once lauded Netscape as the David to Microsoft's
Goliath, steadily turned negative, especially when Netscape experienced
its first bad quarter at the end of 1997 and underwent a large round of
layoffs in January 1998."

So how come you didn't quote the previous paragraph that reveals the
strategy that Netscape "could not compete with" to be an anticompetitive
attack by the MS monopoly?

Here it is:

: Microsoft released version 1.0 of Internet Explorer as a part of the
: Windows 95 Plus Pack add-on. According to former Spyglass developer
: Eric Sink, Internet Explorer was based not on NCSA Mosaic as commonly
: believed, but on a version of Mosaic developed at Spyglass.[5]
: Microsoft quickly released several successive versions of Internet
: Explorer, bundling them with Windows, never charging for them,
: financing their development and marketing with revenues from other
: areas of the company. This period of time became known as the browser
: wars, in which Netscape Communicator and Internet Explorer added many
: new features (not always working correctly) and went through many
: version numbers (not always in a logical fashion) in attempts to outdo
: each other. But Internet Explorer had the upper hand, as the amount of
: manpower and capital dedicated to it eventually surpassed the resources
: available in Netscape's entire business. By version 3.0, IE was roughly
: a feature-for-feature equivalent of Netscape Communicator, and by
: version 4.0, it was generally considered to be more stable. Microsoft
: also targeted other Netscape products with free workalikes, such as the
: Internet Information Server (IIS), a web server which was bundled with
: Windows NT.

By 1998 Microsoft had already deprived Netscape of a considerable amount
of its "air supply" for several years, thus starving the company of
sales and thus the R&D funds necessary to implement features that could
compete in the marketplace with an already-bundled IE. In struggling to
stay alive, Netscape tried to implement the features necessary to compete
with IE, but lacked the R&D funds to follow through. These are the "bugs"
you refer to and were not the norm for the company in healthier times.
In other words, Microsoft was unable to compete technically with
Netscape until it had killed the company by back-door means. The period
you cite was just before the dregs were sold to AOL in November of 1998.

The anticompetitive means by which Microsoft strangled Netscape are well
documented in the DOJ antitrust trial. Only a few are mentioned in
passing in the Wikipedia article on the trial. Links on the actual
wikipedia page lead to more-detailed documents, testimony, and evidence:

: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
:
: The trial started in May 1998 with the U.S. Justice Department and the
: Attorneys General of twenty U.S. states suing Microsoft for illegally
: thwarting competition in order to protect and extend its software
: monopoly. Later, in October the US Justice Department also sued
: Microsoft for violating a 1994 consent decree by forcing computer
: makers to include its Internet browser as a part of the installation of
: Windows software. During the antitrust case it was revealed that
: Microsoft had threatened PC manufacturers with revoking their license
: to distribute Windows if they removed the Internet Explorer icon from
: the initial desktop, something that Netscape had requested of its
: licensees.
:
: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by
: a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his
: deposition. [1] He argued over the definitions of words such as
: "compete", "jihad", "concerned", "ask", and "we". [2] BusinessWeek
: reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory
: answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the
: presiding judge had to chuckle. Worse, many of the technology chief's
: denials and pleas of ignorance have been directly refuted by
: prosecutors with snippets of E-mail Gates both sent and received." [3]
: Intel Vice-President Steven McGeady, called as a witness, quoted Paul
: Maritz, a senior Microsoft vice president as having stated an intention
: to "extinguish" and "smother" rival Netscape Communications Corporation
: and to "cut off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of
: Netscape's flagship product for free. The Microsoft executive denied
: the allegations.
:
: A number of videotapes were submitted as evidence by Microsoft during
: the trial, including one that demonstrated that removing Internet
: Explorer from Microsoft Windows caused slowdowns and malfunctions in
: Windows. In the videotaped demonstration of what Microsoft vice
: president James Allchin's stated to be a seamless segment filmed on one
: PC, the plaintiff noticed that some icons mysteriously disappear and
: reappear on the PC's desktop, suggesting that the effects might have
: been falsified. Allchin admitted that the blame for the tape
: problems lay with some of his staff "They ended up filming it --
: grabbing the wrong screen shot," he said of the incident. Later,
: Allchin re-ran the demonstration and provided a new videotape, but in
: so doing Microsoft dropped the claim that Windows is slowed down when
: Internet Explorer is removed. Mark Murray, a Microsoft spokesperson,
: berated the government attorneys for "nitpicking on issues like video
: production." Microsoft submitted a second inaccurate videotape into
: evidence later the same month as the first. The issue in question was
: how easy or hard it was for America Online users to download and
: install Netscape Navigator onto a Windows PC. Microsoft's videotape
: showed the process as being quick and easy, resulting in the Netscape
: icon appearing on the user's desktop. The government produced its own
: videotape of the same process, revealing that Microsoft's videotape had
: edited out a long and complex part of the procedure and that the
: Netscape icon wasn't placed on the desktop, requiring a user to search
: for it. Brad Chase, a Microsoft vice president, verified the
: government's tape and conceded that Microsoft's own tape was
: inaccurate.
:
: <snip>
:
: Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
: stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
: systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
: actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java,
: Netscape, Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on April
: 3, 2000, he issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law were that
: Microsoft had committed monopolization, attempted monopolization, and
: tying in violation of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act, and his
: remedy was that Microsoft must be broken into two separate units, one
: to produce the operating system, and one to produce other software
: components.
:
: <snip>
:
: APPEAL
:
: On September 26, 2000, after Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact,
: in order to save time the plaintiffs attempted to send Microsoft's
: appeal directly to the Supreme Court. However, the Supreme Court
: declined to hear the appeal and sent the case to a federal appeals
: court. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously overturned Judge
: Jackson's rulings against Microsoft on browser tying and attempted
: monopolization on grounds, that he gave off-the-record, but
: nevertheless disclosed, interviews to the news media during the case,
: and that Judge Jackson having opinions about the defendant was
: improper. Judge Jackson's response to this was that Microsoft's conduct
: itself was the cause of any "perceived bias"; Microsoft executives had
: "proved, time and time again, to be inaccurate, misleading, evasive,
: and transparently false. ... Microsoft is a company with an
: institutional disdain for both the truth and for rules of law that
: lesser entities must respect. It is also a company whose senior
: management is not averse to offering specious testimony to support
: spurious defenses to claims of its wrongdoing." However, the appeals
: court did affirm in part Judge Jackson's ruling on monopolization. The
: D.C. Circuit remanded the case for consideration of a proper remedy for
: "drastically altered scope of liability" that the court had upheld,
: under Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly. The DOJ, now under the
: administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, announced on September
: 6, 2001 that it was no longer seeking to break up Microsoft and would
: instead seek a lesser antitrust penalty.
 
J

Jeffrey Sparks

People are probably going to find ways around the copy protection schemes
and figure out how to crack Vista so it can be copied freely. The question
is why would you trust it then? If you are getting it from someone willing
to break the law and pirate the OS who knows what else they did to it? You
really want to risk putting sensitive confidential information thru a
computer that has been cracked?

Even if this new scheme only cuts down the number of pirated copies by 1
percent you are talking hundred of millions of dollars in revenue for
Microsoft. And to blame them for doing this is getting a little ridiculous.
Microsoft is not the only company feeling the need to "activate" their
products. Nuance (formerly scansoft) only allows you to activate their
paperport and omnipage software 2x! Most software companies have some kind
of product keys and/or activation method to get some kind of grip on
software piracy. To put the blame squarely on Microsoft is a little over
the top.
 
C

caver1

Richard said:
I didn't quote it because I told where it came from. Anybody with half a
brain....................


Then if you can't use the whole quote can't use just a portion to back
up your misguided beliefs.
 
R

Richard Urban

I just did! (-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
W

William

Netscape was a piece of crap, that is why it lost the browser war.

caver1 said:
Netscape died because their Internet browser was crap, and everyone of
importance knows that. Microsoft just kicked them when they were falling.

I guess some are just naive. At every stage Netscape was ahead of MS.
The reason MS buried Netscape was because MS knew the only way to catch
up was to give IE away free. MS money let them do that and Netscape
couldn't. And by making OEMs stop loading Netscape or lose Windows.
MS has never played fair.
 
W

William

Ford still has its problems. Dale Jarrett, who was with Roberts Yates Racing said that Ford needs to get more involved with technology side of NASCAR racing like GM, Dodge, and now Toyota are.





You edited out the best part of my post!

"Truth is, what we have is a Ford Focus, or better yet a Chevy Cobalt.
Plus, in a 2 or 3 years, one that most of us will be REQUIRED to drive
(stolen or not) to be able to use 90% of the highways."

If you want to use programs written only for MS, in a 2 or 3 years, you will
be using Vista.

Right or wrong, stolen or not, it's beside the point. The whole point of my
original post is Vista is outrageously overpriced. I will NOT be paying
that price & unless I can get a student version or a cheap OEM copy, I will
be stealing it when the time comes that I am required to (if I need to run
programs written only for MS).

Who knows? Vista is prolly gonna double Mac's market share, maybe I will
have a viable choice when the time comes. ;)
 
W

William

Every once in a while I get a call from a Comcast or Adelphia subscriber who has been running Windows 98 since 1998-99 and has never reinstalled Windows 98 and wonder why their computer is so very slow now.


"Not necessarily. There are those out there who are still running 98SE and
are completely happy with it. There are many who will continue to do so, and
even more who will remain with XP, which won't be obsolete for quite some
time to come (at least for many). I happen to be a technophile and want the
latest technology, but not everyone is like that, and they will be perfectly
happy remaining with XP for another 2, 3 years or more. Not everyone will
feel REQUIRED to use Vista. Nor are they.
 
W

William

Microsoft is not a monopoly. If you don't want to run Windows or other Microsoft applications, there are alternatives such as Linux and Open Source software.

norm said:
Netscape died because their Internet browser was crap, and everyone of
importance knows that. Microsoft just kicked them when they were falling.

Would you please enlighten those of us who evidently are not important
as to who "everyone of importance" is, and, more so, who/what determines
that "everyone" is important? No doubt there are differing opinions, but
to just blithely make such a statement seems to ignore much of what
actually happened. Does illegal use of monopoly power by ms ring any
bells as to what really happened to netscape?
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f2600/v-a.pdf
Looks like far more than just a little kick by ms. YMMV.
 
W

William

Bruin, you need to go to the window in the room where you have your computer, open the window, then stick your head out the window and yell,

'I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!'

That will make you feel better.



"
Actually my point is that I am angry. Angry as hell at MS (yet again).
Only this time I am fed up! If I could, if the programs I need to run on a
daily basis ran on a Mac or Linux, I would switch. What I am is pissed off
enough to say "****-im, I am not paying this go around". They went too
far this time.
 
W

William

Gee, arachnid, I guess I will be looking for a brand new Desoto, or Packard, or Studebaker, or AMC next time I need a new car. But oh, they are no longer in business. I wonder why is that. Perhaps they could not compete in the market place.

A short blurb from Wikipedia will suffice. Look for the rest on your own.
I will not waste time on a dead browser.

Too late. :blush:)
"Netscape could not compete with this strategy. Meanwhile, it faced
increasing criticism for the bugs in its products; critics claimed that
the company suffered from 'featuritis' - putting a higher priority on
adding new features than on making them work properly. The tide of
public opinion, having once lauded Netscape as the David to Microsoft's
Goliath, steadily turned negative, especially when Netscape experienced
its first bad quarter at the end of 1997 and underwent a large round of
layoffs in January 1998."

So how come you didn't quote the previous paragraph that reveals the
strategy that Netscape "could not compete with" to be an anticompetitive
attack by the MS monopoly?

Here it is:

: Microsoft released version 1.0 of Internet Explorer as a part of the
: Windows 95 Plus Pack add-on. According to former Spyglass developer
: Eric Sink, Internet Explorer was based not on NCSA Mosaic as commonly
: believed, but on a version of Mosaic developed at Spyglass.[5]
: Microsoft quickly released several successive versions of Internet
: Explorer, bundling them with Windows, never charging for them,
: financing their development and marketing with revenues from other
: areas of the company. This period of time became known as the browser
: wars, in which Netscape Communicator and Internet Explorer added many
: new features (not always working correctly) and went through many
: version numbers (not always in a logical fashion) in attempts to outdo
: each other. But Internet Explorer had the upper hand, as the amount of
: manpower and capital dedicated to it eventually surpassed the resources
: available in Netscape's entire business. By version 3.0, IE was roughly
: a feature-for-feature equivalent of Netscape Communicator, and by
: version 4.0, it was generally considered to be more stable. Microsoft
: also targeted other Netscape products with free workalikes, such as the
: Internet Information Server (IIS), a web server which was bundled with
: Windows NT.

By 1998 Microsoft had already deprived Netscape of a considerable amount
of its "air supply" for several years, thus starving the company of
sales and thus the R&D funds necessary to implement features that could
compete in the marketplace with an already-bundled IE. In struggling to
stay alive, Netscape tried to implement the features necessary to compete
with IE, but lacked the R&D funds to follow through. These are the "bugs"
you refer to and were not the norm for the company in healthier times.
In other words, Microsoft was unable to compete technically with
Netscape until it had killed the company by back-door means. The period
you cite was just before the dregs were sold to AOL in November of 1998.

The anticompetitive means by which Microsoft strangled Netscape are well
documented in the DOJ antitrust trial. Only a few are mentioned in
passing in the Wikipedia article on the trial. Links on the actual
wikipedia page lead to more-detailed documents, testimony, and evidence:

: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
:
: The trial started in May 1998 with the U.S. Justice Department and the
: Attorneys General of twenty U.S. states suing Microsoft for illegally
: thwarting competition in order to protect and extend its software
: monopoly. Later, in October the US Justice Department also sued
: Microsoft for violating a 1994 consent decree by forcing computer
: makers to include its Internet browser as a part of the installation of
: Windows software. During the antitrust case it was revealed that
: Microsoft had threatened PC manufacturers with revoking their license
: to distribute Windows if they removed the Internet Explorer icon from
: the initial desktop, something that Netscape had requested of its
: licensees.
:
: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by
: a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his
: deposition. [1] He argued over the definitions of words such as
: "compete", "jihad", "concerned", "ask", and "we". [2] BusinessWeek
: reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory
: answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the
: presiding judge had to chuckle. Worse, many of the technology chief's
: denials and pleas of ignorance have been directly refuted by
: prosecutors with snippets of E-mail Gates both sent and received." [3]
: Intel Vice-President Steven McGeady, called as a witness, quoted Paul
: Maritz, a senior Microsoft vice president as having stated an intention
: to "extinguish" and "smother" rival Netscape Communications Corporation
: and to "cut off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of
: Netscape's flagship product for free. The Microsoft executive denied
: the allegations.
:
: A number of videotapes were submitted as evidence by Microsoft during
: the trial, including one that demonstrated that removing Internet
: Explorer from Microsoft Windows caused slowdowns and malfunctions in
: Windows. In the videotaped demonstration of what Microsoft vice
: president James Allchin's stated to be a seamless segment filmed on one
: PC, the plaintiff noticed that some icons mysteriously disappear and
: reappear on the PC's desktop, suggesting that the effects might have
: been falsified. Allchin admitted that the blame for the tape
: problems lay with some of his staff "They ended up filming it --
: grabbing the wrong screen shot," he said of the incident. Later,
: Allchin re-ran the demonstration and provided a new videotape, but in
: so doing Microsoft dropped the claim that Windows is slowed down when
: Internet Explorer is removed. Mark Murray, a Microsoft spokesperson,
: berated the government attorneys for "nitpicking on issues like video
: production." Microsoft submitted a second inaccurate videotape into
: evidence later the same month as the first. The issue in question was
: how easy or hard it was for America Online users to download and
: install Netscape Navigator onto a Windows PC. Microsoft's videotape
: showed the process as being quick and easy, resulting in the Netscape
: icon appearing on the user's desktop. The government produced its own
: videotape of the same process, revealing that Microsoft's videotape had
: edited out a long and complex part of the procedure and that the
: Netscape icon wasn't placed on the desktop, requiring a user to search
: for it. Brad Chase, a Microsoft vice president, verified the
: government's tape and conceded that Microsoft's own tape was
: inaccurate.
:
: <snip>
:
: Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact on November 5, 1999, which
: stated that Microsoft's dominance of the personal computer operating
: systems market constituted a monopoly, and that Microsoft had taken
: actions to crush threats to the monopoly, including Apple, Java,
: Netscape, Lotus Notes, Real Networks, Linux, and others. Then on April
: 3, 2000, he issued a two-part ruling: his conclusions of law were that
: Microsoft had committed monopolization, attempted monopolization, and
: tying in violation of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Act, and his
: remedy was that Microsoft must be broken into two separate units, one
: to produce the operating system, and one to produce other software
: components.
:
: <snip>
:
: APPEAL
:
: On September 26, 2000, after Judge Jackson issued his findings of fact,
: in order to save time the plaintiffs attempted to send Microsoft's
: appeal directly to the Supreme Court. However, the Supreme Court
: declined to hear the appeal and sent the case to a federal appeals
: court. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously overturned Judge
: Jackson's rulings against Microsoft on browser tying and attempted
: monopolization on grounds, that he gave off-the-record, but
: nevertheless disclosed, interviews to the news media during the case,
: and that Judge Jackson having opinions about the defendant was
: improper. Judge Jackson's response to this was that Microsoft's conduct
: itself was the cause of any "perceived bias"; Microsoft executives had
: "proved, time and time again, to be inaccurate, misleading, evasive,
: and transparently false. ... Microsoft is a company with an
: institutional disdain for both the truth and for rules of law that
: lesser entities must respect. It is also a company whose senior
: management is not averse to offering specious testimony to support
: spurious defenses to claims of its wrongdoing." However, the appeals
: court did affirm in part Judge Jackson's ruling on monopolization. The
: D.C. Circuit remanded the case for consideration of a proper remedy for
: "drastically altered scope of liability" that the court had upheld,
: under Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly. The DOJ, now under the
: administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, announced on September
: 6, 2001 that it was no longer seeking to break up Microsoft and would
: instead seek a lesser antitrust penalty.
 
P

Paul-B

William said:
Ford still has its problems. Dale Jarrett, who was with Roberts Yates
Racing said that Ford needs to get more involved with technology side
of NASCAR racing like GM, Dodge, and now Toyota are.

Using "technology" and "NASCAR" in the same sentence?

Scandalous!
 
W

William

There are huge amounts of technology involved in Nextel Cup racing. How can you interpret wind tunnel data with a slide rule?

Ford still has its problems. Dale Jarrett, who was with Roberts Yates
Racing said that Ford needs to get more involved with technology side
of NASCAR racing like GM, Dodge, and now Toyota are.

Using "technology" and "NASCAR" in the same sentence?

Scandalous!
 
J

Justin

Bruin said:
I had to upgrade to XP several years ago, due to one particular program I
needed to run that claimed to run on 98SE but would not.

This is where your entire argument goes out the window. You did not "HAVE"
to run that app. You "WANT" to run that app. Guess what bud, you have to
PAY for all PARTS required to run that app.

Just because you "WANT" doesn't mean you get to "STEAL".

Do us a favor though, if you steal Vista, don't be a baby about it! Steal
it from a retail store and not from the safety of your home. Be a MAN about
it!
 

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