R
rtdos
ARE YOU ACCUSING ME OF USING A SOCK PUPPET ? shame on you john, i thought
you had more common sense than that.
you had more common sense than that.
R
rtdos
it was. again, JC micro-defines the freeware definition. so far no one has
came to his defense this time.
came to his defense this time.
V
Vic Dura
And you are missing the point that many people here dispute the
so-called "basic definition of freeware" that you seem to think
everyone accepts. IMO the FAQ that you keep referring to is a
convoluted monstrosity that has taken a simple concept like "free
software" and mangled to the point that it's sole purpose seems to be
its use as a rational for telling people that they are off-topic.
Add to that you insistence that anyone who disagrees with you is a
troll, sock-puppet or freeware saboteur and you have the perfect
ingredients for flame festivals.
J
John Fitzsimons
A consensus was arrived at when the FAQs were done.
Just as there is substantial disagreement, generally due to yourself
and/or sock puppets there is substantial agreement.
Everyone knows that your idea of an "invalid" vote is one that
disagrees with your opinion. So why not just give it a rest ? Your
constantly wanting to ignore the vote taken and have things your
way gets rather boring rather quickly.
S
Simon Whitaker
You saying that if you disagree with the FAQ you are either Vic Dura or a
'sock puppet'. That's a ridiculous attitude to take.
K
Klaatu
Fine, if and when the (non-beta) non-time-limited version comes out, go
ahead and recommend it at that time. Until then, it's all speculation.
The version that exists *today* is not freeware. What someone may or may
not do in the future is irrelevant.
J
John Corliss
Malu' said:
No, I'm afraid it wasn't.
--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.
J
John Corliss
rtdos said:
No, I am not. I haven't the slightest clue where you derived that idea.
--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.
J
John Corliss
Klaatu said:
Klaatu,
THANK YOU!! That was exactly what I've been trying to say.
--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.
J
John Fitzsimons
The current release is time limited freeware. The full release will be
time unlimited freeware. Notice that last word ? You should be able to
grasp the concept if you try hard.
As for it being a "beta". Many beta programs are discussed/
recommended here.
K
Klaatu
If it's time limited, it can't be freeware.
So it's been said. And it's irrelevant. If Microsoft said MS Office 13
would be freeware, would that make the current version of MS Office
freeware? No, or course not.
Stooping a bit low, John? Try to stick to making arguments for your point
of view please, if you think your position can be defended.
M
Malu'
18 Oct 2003 18:22:35 GMT
Klaatu ha scritto:
Does MS tell you that the current version of MS Office is freeare (even if
time-limited until next version) and give you a free download?
Klaatu ha scritto:
Does MS tell you that the current version of MS Office is freeare (even if
time-limited until next version) and give you a free download?
J
John Fitzsimons
The current release of MS Office isn't freeware. The current release
of Dialog is.
A
Alain =?iso-8859-15?Q?Gu=E9rin?=
Hello,
Le 18/10/2003 à 20:22:35, Klaatu écrivait :
If a payware is time limited, is not it a payware ?
The problem is not what is a freeware, but what you (and some others) want
to discuss here.
I agree that the groups does not have to deviate, but if we all are
objective, it is clear that Dialog is for the time being a very usefull peace
of free sofware in beta version that will be delivered as freeware in its
final version. So, in my mind, and even if I prefer to have only *one* non
moderated group to discuss *one* software ( news.software.readers in
that case ), I see no problem to discuss here from something that is not
a pitfall in any way and not a try to trick people with hidden advertising or
addiction for a commercial software for private people.
Lows are not build for themselve but to aim a goal.
If Dialog does not follow the rule, please, change the rule or do what every
people do with bad rules: ignore it.
Le 18/10/2003 à 20:22:35, Klaatu écrivait :
If a payware is time limited, is not it a payware ?
The problem is not what is a freeware, but what you (and some others) want
to discuss here.
I agree that the groups does not have to deviate, but if we all are
objective, it is clear that Dialog is for the time being a very usefull peace
of free sofware in beta version that will be delivered as freeware in its
final version. So, in my mind, and even if I prefer to have only *one* non
moderated group to discuss *one* software ( news.software.readers in
that case ), I see no problem to discuss here from something that is not
a pitfall in any way and not a try to trick people with hidden advertising or
addiction for a commercial software for private people.
Lows are not build for themselve but to aim a goal.
If Dialog does not follow the rule, please, change the rule or do what every
people do with bad rules: ignore it.
V
Vic Dura
Good point Alain!
J
John Corliss
John said:The current release of MS Office isn't freeware. The current release
of Dialog is.
I disagree John. The current release of 40tude Dialog is time-limited
betaware. Betaware isn't freeware and neither is *any* other type of
time-limited software.
--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.
J
John Corliss
Alain said:
That's irrelevant. This group is for the discussion of freeware, not
payware.
How can you not understand that what is appropriate to discuss here is
intimately linked with what is defined as freeware and what this group
has decided is acceptable to discuss here?
The "pitfall" is that it is time-limited!
Callously ignore the guidelines that the majority of this group has
agreed to at your own peril.
There are no "rules" in this group because it's unmoderated. There are
only guidelines and the group is self governing. That's not going to
change. Starting threads about shareware, commercialware, warez, etc.
will always get a person flamed or at least result in the pointing out
that the post is off topic.
--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.
?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=
There are many kinds of non-freeware (using the pure definition found
in your version of the FAQ, with which I agree) that are acceptable
to discuss here. IMO, Dialog is fine to discuss here, at least now
that Marcus has been badgered over in n.s.r into clarifying some
things.
(1) He intends to release a non-expiring non-beta freeware version
as soon as he can, and is working hard on it.
(2) The release version will have all the features of the latest
beta before the release version, not just the features of the
first beta.
(3) He does not have any plans at this time to release a commercial
version at all.
Whether or not one takes him at his word is up to the individual, but
I don't see any reason not to. And I don't see any reason to argue
with those who do. If he goes back on his word on points 1 or 2 (and
I don't think he will), he'll catch a hell of a backlash here as well
as in n.s.r at that point.
In the meantime, before a release version, I see the discussion of
Dialog in a.c.f as promoting freeware development.
Again, I don't consider these time-limited betas to be freeware, and
I think anyone recommending them here should point out the
limitation. I'd vote against them as Pricelessware, waiting for a
time-unlimited version.
V
Vic Dura
You've side-steped the question. I think the point Alain is making is
that weather or not something is free is does not change when a time
limit is put on it. It may be time limited, but it's still free.
When did this group decide this? Let me recall now. Nearly 4 years
ago. How many of those people are still here? Obviously a lot of
people are disagree on this point, judging from the posts in this
thread.
And the time-limit doesn't change the fact that it is free.
How about ignoring the "guidelines" because one disagrees with them
and this is an un-moderated group and thus one is not required to
agree with them. I had always considered guidelines to be optional in
that one could follow them or not. Yet you indicated that one is in
"peril" if he doesn't follow them. That doesn't sound like a
guideline. It sounds like a rule.
Yes, I agree with you here.
J
John Fitzsimons
< snip >
Then why haven't you complained about RegCleaner and numerous other
Betaware discussions here ?
Seems like you are happy to discuss them. Or do I need to quote posts
of yours where you have discussed/recommended betaware yourself ?
I wouldn't have to look too long would I ? Or are you going to say
that eg. Firebird isn't a beta release ?
Certainly is. If a beta that is free will be replaced by equally free
versions until a free unlimited version.
If you don't like Dialog then don't use it. Very simple. Leave the
rest of us to enjoy a very nice free newsreader.
Your trolling about Dialog is getting a bit boring John.
Regards, John.