Please avoid Vista like the plague

[Dragoro]

So more or less, you just hate vista because of the drm features.

Get on with the times, I'm also IT Pro MCSE, MCSA, MCSDBA. Do you
honestly think your going to talk your customers out of going with
the flow? I doubt that.

Well thats just it, many people that have tried Vista that I know and
have talked to, just don't want it, after they see it for what it really
is: an XP/2003 cleverly disgiused and pumped with mounds of Content
Protection, all in the name of new technology.

Personally, I got board with XP, needed some new challenges.

Well on the view of making money off all the problems there are with it,
then you have a point. However, from a standpoint of how to build your
new system, you cna etiher go with Vista and a multi core system, and
get around the same speed you have with XP on your P4, or stick with XP
Pro (or even 2003) and marry that to a multi core system instead and get
a super fast system, with all of the extra cludges and needly DRM.

As an IT Pro, you of all people should know the
learn'n never stops. Well its a good thing the old saying doesn't go
"If it ain't broke don't fix it". We'd still have stone wheels.

Actually that IS how the old saying goes. Updating a system, installing
patches, et al, is one thing, moving to what is actually an inferior
system, in terms of use. In fact, under the surface, the only really new
technology is DRM, the type that really does threated certain freedoms.
I mean where does it end? [1]

I don't mind new technology at all, I have always greeted it with my
arms wide open, but as soon as it threatens my freedoms, pushed by
certain media companies [2] that have been collaberating with the folks
at Redmond, then thats where I, and many others it seems, draw the line.

If you want to deal with al lthe excessive Content Protection, HDCP and
other DRMs then feel free.

I will of course support Vista as an IT service I preform, as I already
have started doing, but it doesn't mean I have to use it my self. I will
run it in a virtual machine for personal and IT reasons, but thats it.



[1]
I don't know about you, but I really don't want to be told what I can do
with media I've purchased. That and the DRM does nothing to stop the
piracy thats there... you even have HD rips of TV shows and Movies that
look damn good and some are compressed rather well, making downloads
tolerable but still yeilding better quality than a 480i DVD.

It's just the same dam nthing as with the gun laws... imposing
restictions and makign it harder to get something for those who got the
goods legally anyways, while those who always got them illegally, still
do. It's no different. Well, at least gun restrictions can potentially
prevent someone from getting hurt, but i nthe realm of technology and
digital media, it just makes life harder for whose who try to play by
the rules.


[2]
Companies that should never have been alloted such control in the first
place, and in many cases do in fact infinge on our rights, and some
cases, like the Sony Root-Kit, have been down right criminal, and as an
added bonus, providing a cloaking mechism hackers and malware writters
to take advantage of.

The Sony RK was just the beginning it seems. Vista is obviously the next
step in their endevor to control things more tightly.

 

[Saran]

Did you even read anything I wrote? DRM is a big part of why I don't
want it on my system, but its far from the only reason. As I said,
beneath the surface, it's more of the same, same basic core. Why should
anyone be expected to by a screw up service pack with a slick new skin
and some widgets thrown in, and a little big-brother right in the
middle?

Why do you insist on push Vista as new technology when it's clear to me
it's build on existing tech and contains things many people just dont
want and are truly unfair.

So more or less, you just hate vista because of the drm features.

Get on with the times, I'm also IT Pro MCSE, MCSA, MCSDBA. Do you
honestly think your going to talk your customers out of going with
the flow? I doubt that.

Well thats just it, many people that have tried Vista that I know and
have talked to, just don't want it, after they see it for what it
really is: an XP/2003 cleverly disgiused and pumped with mounds of
Content Protection, all in the name of new technology.

Personally, I got board with XP, needed some new challenges.

Well on the view of making money off all the problems there are with
it, then you have a point. However, from a standpoint of how to
build your new system, you cna etiher go with Vista and a multi core
system, and get around the same speed you have with XP on your P4,
or stick with XP Pro (or even 2003) and marry that to a multi core
system instead and get a super fast system, with all of the extra
cludges and needly DRM.

As an IT Pro, you of all people should know the
learn'n never stops. Well its a good thing the old saying doesn't go
"If it ain't broke don't fix it". We'd still have stone wheels.

Actually that IS how the old saying goes. Updating a system,
installing patches, et al, is one thing, moving to what is actually
an inferior system, in terms of use. In fact, under the surface, the
only really new technology is DRM, the type that really does
threated certain freedoms. I mean where does it end? [1]

I don't mind new technology at all, I have always greeted it with my
arms wide open, but as soon as it threatens my freedoms, pushed by
certain media companies [2] that have been collaberating with the
folks at Redmond, then thats where I, and many others it seems, draw
the line. If you want to deal with al lthe excessive Content
Protection, HDCP
and other DRMs then feel free.

I will of course support Vista as an IT service I preform, as I
already have started doing, but it doesn't mean I have to use it my
self. I will run it in a virtual machine for personal and IT
reasons, but thats it. [1]
I don't know about you, but I really don't want to be told what I
can do with media I've purchased. That and the DRM does nothing to
stop the piracy thats there... you even have HD rips of TV shows and
Movies that look damn good and some are compressed rather well,
making downloads tolerable but still yeilding better quality than a
480i DVD. It's just the same dam nthing as with the gun laws...
imposing
restictions and makign it harder to get something for those who got
the goods legally anyways, while those who always got them
illegally, still do. It's no different. Well, at least gun
restrictions can potentially prevent someone from getting hurt, but
i nthe realm of technology and digital media, it just makes life
harder for whose who try to play by the rules.


[2]
Companies that should never have been alloted such control in the
first place, and in many cases do in fact infinge on our rights, and
some cases, like the Sony Root-Kit, have been down right criminal,
and as an added bonus, providing a cloaking mechism hackers and
malware writters to take advantage of.

The Sony RK was just the beginning it seems. Vista is obviously the
next step in their endevor to control things more tightly.

Alias wrote:
Saran wrote:
Frankster wrote:
Don't get sucked into the |ber graphical GUI. You need a high
horsepower system just to run in it very well.
Boy I couldn't agree with you more. I am still running DOS3.1!
It's fast as hell on my new machine. O'course, I can't do much,
but it sure produces a directory list f*a*s*t!

-Frank

No I think the OP has some good points about Vista. I'm an IT
professional and just spent 4 hours with a new Vista machine,
trying to get several applications the customer needed on the
machine to
work, most of which would not install, nad those that did, would
not run, not even with compatibility modes.

To top that off, they changed the naming conventions of many
basic icon and menu labels... half of classic view control panel
items have been renamed... all of which just leads to massive
headaches. Those of you who say you enjoy it, do this: Right
click o nthe
desktop top, go to "Personalize" (yep, no Properties" like you'd
expect there to be...) and go to appearance, and you get a
familiar screen where you cna choose "Windows Standard" to get a
Win 2000 view (or "Windows Classic" for 9x style), thne rigth
click on the task bar and go to start menu properties and change
that to classic. What have you got, Win 2000 with newer icons.
The sole reason I can
see for the so called "program incompatibilities" can be traced
to who Vista handles DLL registrations, which most installers do
towards the end of a setup cycle. It seems Vista sabatoged the
"old" method, rather than providing backwards compatibility in
that department. Many other things in Vista seems to be directly
carried over from
previous Windows. All the talk about the "brand new" architecture
or "new core" is a load of bs. Sure they wrote some things, but
it's overly obvious to me they used the same basic modified-NT
core... In other words, Vista is nothing mroe than a botched XP
SP3 with a
new "skin" (MS's own version of Win Blinds if you will) and new
icons, and a couple new goodies, any of which have been around
from other makers, including the "flying windows" task switcher
(which does NOT appear to be on by default, instead I was
greated by the same old swticher since Win 2000.)

Underneath the nice new skin is the same old Windows, with
something renamed and some things tweaked, many which result in
an OS that's difficult to use and get used to, especially if
you've bene using Windows for a very long time.

And then theres the extra DRM... Windows Vista... all in all, no
thanks, I'd rather not waste my money for something I already
have.

So, one could say that Vista is the Windows Me of NT and was only
released to make money?

Alias

More or less. They just took more elaborate messures this time to
make it less obvious with the fancy "skin" (Aero Glass) which
ammitedly makes things looks nice but realyl does slow things down.
Even in classic mode, for a Dual core Duo, it seemed slower than my
own P4 2.4 which only hasa quater of the ram to boot, and half the
video power the custmers spankin new rig had. That alone makes the
situation oh so sad.

 

[Conor]

Underneath the nice new skin is the same old Windows, with something
renamed and some things tweaked, many which result in an OS that's
difficult to use and get used to, especially if you've bene using
Windows for a very long time.

Your post is so wrong it'd be funny if you actually didn't believe what
you write.

The reason a lot of stuff doesn't work is because Vista IS NOT "the
same old Windows".

Applications run in user space and are made to follow proper user
account use. Drivers are not allowed to hook into the kernel anymore.

 

[Conor]

Well thats just it, many people that have tried Vista that I know and
have talked to, just don't want it, after they see it for what it really
is: an XP/2003 cleverly disgiused and pumped with mounds of Content
Protection, all in the name of new technology.

BWAHAHAHA....

 

[Conor]

Did you even read anything I wrote? DRM is a big part of why I don't
want it on my system, but its far from the only reason. As I said,
beneath the surface, it's more of the same, same basic core.

Except it isn't....

 

[Wayne M. Poe]

Except it isn't....

It most certain is. More hype than anything else. It seems they have
carried other quite a bit from other versions.

 

[Saran]

Your post is so wrong it'd be funny if you actually didn't believe
what you write.

The reason a lot of stuff doesn't work is because Vista IS NOT "the
same old Windows".

Applications run in user space and are made to follow proper user
account use. Drivers are not allowed to hook into the kernel anymore.

Bull crap, even when allowed to run as "Administrator" or even when
logged in directly from an ADmin account, the same thing happens. The
very fact that the same error happened in any program I tried to install
mentioned pretty much the same thing, that it could not register the
dll. They changed a few things in that regard, but that doesn't
constitute a "whole new version of windows", but rather, the change of a
specific method in a specifc area.

Dig a little deeper and you might asctually know what you're talking
about.

 

[Dan]

Did you even read anything I wrote? DRM is a big part of why I don't want
it on my system, but its far from the only reason. As I said, beneath the
surface, it's more of the same, same basic core. Why should anyone be
expected to by a screw up service pack with a slick new skin and some
widgets thrown in, and a little big-brother right in the middle?

Why do you insist on push Vista as new technology when it's clear to me
it's build on existing tech and contains things many people just dont want
and are truly unfair.

I am so glad I havnt run accros techs that are as ignorant as yourself in my
part of the world. If thats all you see in the OS then you need to get out
of the business. Not that I am a complete convert to Vista, but saying it's
nothing but a SP for the NT OS's is just plain ignorant.

 

[Steve K.]

I am so glad I havnt run accros techs that are as ignorant as
yourself in my part of the world. If thats all you see in the OS then
you need to get out of the business. Not that I am a complete convert
to Vista, but saying it's nothing but a SP for the NT OS's is just
plain ignorant.

Even though he is for the most part correct. There was a lot of rewrite
of the base code but it's stil lthat, base code, many things carried
over. I've spent some time with Vista in a test environment. We did a
lot of digging in there, and there an awful lot carried over. Why is
this so difficult to believe?

 

[Richard Urban]

Poor Saran will not be able to steal music/movies any longer and he is
pis*ed.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

So more or less, you just hate vista because of the drm features.

Get on with the times, I'm also IT Pro MCSE, MCSA, MCSDBA. Do you
honestly think your going to talk your customers out of going with
the flow? I doubt that.

Well thats just it, many people that have tried Vista that I know and
have talked to, just don't want it, after they see it for what it really
is: an XP/2003 cleverly disgiused and pumped with mounds of Content
Protection, all in the name of new technology.

Personally, I got board with XP, needed some new challenges.

Well on the view of making money off all the problems there are with it,
then you have a point. However, from a standpoint of how to build your
new system, you cna etiher go with Vista and a multi core system, and
get around the same speed you have with XP on your P4, or stick with XP
Pro (or even 2003) and marry that to a multi core system instead and get
a super fast system, with all of the extra cludges and needly DRM.

As an IT Pro, you of all people should know the
learn'n never stops. Well its a good thing the old saying doesn't go
"If it ain't broke don't fix it". We'd still have stone wheels.

Actually that IS how the old saying goes. Updating a system, installing
patches, et al, is one thing, moving to what is actually an inferior
system, in terms of use. In fact, under the surface, the only really new
technology is DRM, the type that really does threated certain freedoms.
I mean where does it end? [1]

I don't mind new technology at all, I have always greeted it with my
arms wide open, but as soon as it threatens my freedoms, pushed by
certain media companies [2] that have been collaberating with the folks
at Redmond, then thats where I, and many others it seems, draw the line.

If you want to deal with al lthe excessive Content Protection, HDCP and
other DRMs then feel free.

I will of course support Vista as an IT service I preform, as I already
have started doing, but it doesn't mean I have to use it my self. I will
run it in a virtual machine for personal and IT reasons, but thats it.



[1]
I don't know about you, but I really don't want to be told what I can do
with media I've purchased. That and the DRM does nothing to stop the
piracy thats there... you even have HD rips of TV shows and Movies that
look damn good and some are compressed rather well, making downloads
tolerable but still yeilding better quality than a 480i DVD.

It's just the same dam nthing as with the gun laws... imposing
restictions and makign it harder to get something for those who got the
goods legally anyways, while those who always got them illegally, still
do. It's no different. Well, at least gun restrictions can potentially
prevent someone from getting hurt, but i nthe realm of technology and
digital media, it just makes life harder for whose who try to play by
the rules.


[2]
Companies that should never have been alloted such control in the first
place, and in many cases do in fact infinge on our rights, and some
cases, like the Sony Root-Kit, have been down right criminal, and as an
added bonus, providing a cloaking mechism hackers and malware writters
to take advantage of.

The Sony RK was just the beginning it seems. Vista is obviously the next
step in their endevor to control things more tightly.

Alias wrote:
Saran wrote:
Frankster wrote:
Don't get sucked into the |ber graphical GUI. You need a high
horsepower system just to run in it very well.
Boy I couldn't agree with you more. I am still running DOS3.1!
It's fast as hell on my new machine. O'course, I can't do much,
but it sure produces a directory list f*a*s*t!

-Frank

No I think the OP has some good points about Vista. I'm an IT
professional and just spent 4 hours with a new Vista machine,
trying to get several applications the customer needed on the
machine to
work, most of which would not install, nad those that did, would
not run, not even with compatibility modes.

To top that off, they changed the naming conventions of many basic
icon and menu labels... half of classic view control panel items
have been renamed... all of which just leads to massive headaches.

Those of you who say you enjoy it, do this: Right click o nthe
desktop top, go to "Personalize" (yep, no Properties" like you'd
expect there to be...) and go to appearance, and you get a familiar
screen where you cna choose "Windows Standard" to get a Win 2000
view (or "Windows Classic" for 9x style), thne rigth click on the
task bar and go to start menu properties and change that to
classic. What have you got, Win 2000 with newer icons. The sole
reason I can
see for the so called "program incompatibilities" can be traced to
who Vista handles DLL registrations, which most installers do
towards the end of a setup cycle. It seems Vista sabatoged the
"old" method, rather than providing backwards compatibility in that
department. Many other things in Vista seems to be directly
carried over from
previous Windows. All the talk about the "brand new" architecture
or "new core" is a load of bs. Sure they wrote some things, but
it's overly obvious to me they used the same basic modified-NT
core... In other words, Vista is nothing mroe than a botched XP SP3
with a
new "skin" (MS's own version of Win Blinds if you will) and new
icons, and a couple new goodies, any of which have been around from
other makers, including the "flying windows" task switcher (which
does NOT appear to be on by default, instead I was greated by the
same old swticher since Win 2000.)

Underneath the nice new skin is the same old Windows, with
something renamed and some things tweaked, many which result in an
OS that's difficult to use and get used to, especially if you've
bene using Windows for a very long time.

And then theres the extra DRM... Windows Vista... all in all, no
thanks, I'd rather not waste my money for something I already have.


So, one could say that Vista is the Windows Me of NT and was only
released to make money?

Alias

More or less. They just took more elaborate messures this time to
make it less obvious with the fancy "skin" (Aero Glass) which
ammitedly makes things looks nice but realyl does slow things down.
Even in classic mode, for a Dual core Duo, it seemed slower than my
own P4 2.4 which only hasa quater of the ram to boot, and half the
video power the custmers spankin new rig had. That alone makes the
situation oh so sad.

 

[Saran]

1) I don't steal

2) I never said I engage in that, though I do understand why those who
do, do so.

Mainly because iditos like you don't understand how the powers that be
of the media industries are continuely screwing people who actually pay
for such goods. A great example is if you purchased an HD or "HD-ready"
TV in the last few years to get ahead, you're completely screwed if it
doesn't have HDCP support. Tell me how in the wildest hel lyou could
possibly view that as fair.

Then comes along Vista, which is pushing that sort of thing even more.

I ask again, where_does_it_stop ?

Poor Saran will not be able to steal music/movies any longer and he is
pis*ed.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

So more or less, you just hate vista because of the drm features.

Russ wrote:
Get on with the times, I'm also IT Pro MCSE, MCSA, MCSDBA. Do you
honestly think your going to talk your customers out of going with
the flow? I doubt that.

Well thats just it, many people that have tried Vista that I know
and have talked to, just don't want it, after they see it for what
it really is: an XP/2003 cleverly disgiused and pumped with mounds
of Content Protection, all in the name of new technology.

Personally, I got board with XP, needed some new challenges.

Well on the view of making money off all the problems there are
with it, then you have a point. However, from a standpoint of how
to build your new system, you cna etiher go with Vista and a multi
core system, and get around the same speed you have with XP on your
P4, or stick with XP Pro (or even 2003) and marry that to a multi
core system instead and get a super fast system, with all of the
extra cludges and needly DRM.
As an IT Pro, you of all people should know the
learn'n never stops. Well its a good thing the old saying doesn't
go "If it ain't broke don't fix it". We'd still have stone wheels.

Actually that IS how the old saying goes. Updating a system,
installing patches, et al, is one thing, moving to what is actually
an inferior system, in terms of use. In fact, under the surface,
the only really new technology is DRM, the type that really does
threated certain freedoms. I mean where does it end? [1]

I don't mind new technology at all, I have always greeted it with my
arms wide open, but as soon as it threatens my freedoms, pushed by
certain media companies [2] that have been collaberating with the
folks at Redmond, then thats where I, and many others it seems,
draw the line. If you want to deal with al lthe excessive Content
Protection, HDCP
and other DRMs then feel free.

I will of course support Vista as an IT service I preform, as I
already have started doing, but it doesn't mean I have to use it my
self. I will run it in a virtual machine for personal and IT
reasons, but thats it. [1]
I don't know about you, but I really don't want to be told what I
can do with media I've purchased. That and the DRM does nothing to
stop the piracy thats there... you even have HD rips of TV shows
and Movies that look damn good and some are compressed rather well,
making downloads tolerable but still yeilding better quality than a
480i DVD. It's just the same dam nthing as with the gun laws...
imposing
restictions and makign it harder to get something for those who got
the goods legally anyways, while those who always got them
illegally, still do. It's no different. Well, at least gun
restrictions can potentially prevent someone from getting hurt, but
i nthe realm of technology and digital media, it just makes life
harder for whose who try to play by the rules.


[2]
Companies that should never have been alloted such control in the
first place, and in many cases do in fact infinge on our rights,
and some cases, like the Sony Root-Kit, have been down right
criminal, and as an added bonus, providing a cloaking mechism
hackers and malware writters to take advantage of.

The Sony RK was just the beginning it seems. Vista is obviously the
next step in their endevor to control things more tightly.


Alias wrote:
Saran wrote:
Frankster wrote:
Don't get sucked into the |ber graphical GUI. You need a high
horsepower system just to run in it very well.
Boy I couldn't agree with you more. I am still running DOS3.1!
It's fast as hell on my new machine. O'course, I can't do much,
but it sure produces a directory list f*a*s*t!

-Frank

No I think the OP has some good points about Vista. I'm an IT
professional and just spent 4 hours with a new Vista machine,
trying to get several applications the customer needed on the
machine to
work, most of which would not install, nad those that did, would
not run, not even with compatibility modes.

To top that off, they changed the naming conventions of many
basic icon and menu labels... half of classic view control
panel items have been renamed... all of which just leads to
massive headaches. Those of you who say you enjoy it, do this:
Right click o nthe
desktop top, go to "Personalize" (yep, no Properties" like you'd
expect there to be...) and go to appearance, and you get a
familiar screen where you cna choose "Windows Standard" to get
a Win 2000 view (or "Windows Classic" for 9x style), thne rigth
click on the task bar and go to start menu properties and
change that to classic. What have you got, Win 2000 with newer
icons. The sole reason I can
see for the so called "program incompatibilities" can be traced
to who Vista handles DLL registrations, which most installers do
towards the end of a setup cycle. It seems Vista sabatoged the
"old" method, rather than providing backwards compatibility in
that department. Many other things in Vista seems to be directly
carried over from
previous Windows. All the talk about the "brand new"
architecture or "new core" is a load of bs. Sure they wrote
some things, but it's overly obvious to me they used the same
basic modified-NT core... In other words, Vista is nothing mroe
than a botched XP SP3 with a
new "skin" (MS's own version of Win Blinds if you will) and new
icons, and a couple new goodies, any of which have been around
from other makers, including the "flying windows" task switcher
(which does NOT appear to be on by default, instead I was
greated by the same old swticher since Win 2000.)

Underneath the nice new skin is the same old Windows, with
something renamed and some things tweaked, many which result in
an OS that's difficult to use and get used to, especially if
you've bene using Windows for a very long time.

And then theres the extra DRM... Windows Vista... all in all, no
thanks, I'd rather not waste my money for something I already
have.

So, one could say that Vista is the Windows Me of NT and was only
released to make money?

Alias

More or less. They just took more elaborate messures this time to
make it less obvious with the fancy "skin" (Aero Glass) which
ammitedly makes things looks nice but realyl does slow things
down. Even in classic mode, for a Dual core Duo, it seemed slower
than my own P4 2.4 which only hasa quater of the ram to boot, and
half the video power the custmers spankin new rig had. That alone
makes the situation oh so sad.

 

[Alias]

1) I don't steal

Dick Urban accuses anyone who doesn't approve of MS or others' so-called
"anti piracy" programs of being a thief. Don't take it personally.

There is hope. Steve Jobs has come out and said that DRM on music is
stupid. Spain recently told the big music companies to take a walk and
declared that downloading music for personal use is not illegal.

What gets me is that these same companies screamed to high heaven when
reel-to-reel tape recorders came out and screamed even more when
cassette tapes and VHS came out. Strangely, their dire predictions that
this technology would ruin their business never came to pass.

Hopefully, one day a large company will understand that screwing your
paying customers is not exactly a good PR move. Time will tell but you
can bet your bottom dollar that Dick Urban will continue to support the
companies that screw their customers rather than the customers.

Alias

2) I never said I engage in that, though I do understand why those who
do, do so.

Mainly because iditos like you don't understand how the powers that be
of the media industries are continuely screwing people who actually pay
for such goods. A great example is if you purchased an HD or "HD-ready"
TV in the last few years to get ahead, you're completely screwed if it
doesn't have HDCP support. Tell me how in the wildest hel lyou could
possibly view that as fair.

Then comes along Vista, which is pushing that sort of thing even more.

I ask again, where_does_it_stop ?

Poor Saran will not be able to steal music/movies any longer and he is
pis*ed.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

So more or less, you just hate vista because of the drm features.

Russ wrote:
Get on with the times, I'm also IT Pro MCSE, MCSA, MCSDBA. Do you
honestly think your going to talk your customers out of going with
the flow? I doubt that.
Well thats just it, many people that have tried Vista that I know
and have talked to, just don't want it, after they see it for what
it really is: an XP/2003 cleverly disgiused and pumped with mounds
of Content Protection, all in the name of new technology.

Personally, I got board with XP, needed some new challenges.
Well on the view of making money off all the problems there are
with it, then you have a point. However, from a standpoint of how
to build your new system, you cna etiher go with Vista and a multi
core system, and get around the same speed you have with XP on your
P4, or stick with XP Pro (or even 2003) and marry that to a multi
core system instead and get a super fast system, with all of the
extra cludges and needly DRM.
As an IT Pro, you of all people should know the
learn'n never stops. Well its a good thing the old saying doesn't
go "If it ain't broke don't fix it". We'd still have stone wheels.
Actually that IS how the old saying goes. Updating a system,
installing patches, et al, is one thing, moving to what is actually
an inferior system, in terms of use. In fact, under the surface,
the only really new technology is DRM, the type that really does
threated certain freedoms. I mean where does it end? [1]

I don't mind new technology at all, I have always greeted it with my
arms wide open, but as soon as it threatens my freedoms, pushed by
certain media companies [2] that have been collaberating with the
folks at Redmond, then thats where I, and many others it seems,
draw the line. If you want to deal with al lthe excessive Content
Protection, HDCP
and other DRMs then feel free.

I will of course support Vista as an IT service I preform, as I
already have started doing, but it doesn't mean I have to use it my
self. I will run it in a virtual machine for personal and IT
reasons, but thats it. [1]
I don't know about you, but I really don't want to be told what I
can do with media I've purchased. That and the DRM does nothing to
stop the piracy thats there... you even have HD rips of TV shows
and Movies that look damn good and some are compressed rather well,
making downloads tolerable but still yeilding better quality than a
480i DVD. It's just the same dam nthing as with the gun laws...
imposing
restictions and makign it harder to get something for those who got
the goods legally anyways, while those who always got them
illegally, still do. It's no different. Well, at least gun
restrictions can potentially prevent someone from getting hurt, but
i nthe realm of technology and digital media, it just makes life
harder for whose who try to play by the rules.


[2]
Companies that should never have been alloted such control in the
first place, and in many cases do in fact infinge on our rights,
and some cases, like the Sony Root-Kit, have been down right
criminal, and as an added bonus, providing a cloaking mechism
hackers and malware writters to take advantage of.

The Sony RK was just the beginning it seems. Vista is obviously the
next step in their endevor to control things more tightly.


Alias wrote:
Saran wrote:
Frankster wrote:
Don't get sucked into the |ber graphical GUI. You need a high
horsepower system just to run in it very well.
Boy I couldn't agree with you more. I am still running DOS3.1!
It's fast as hell on my new machine. O'course, I can't do much,
but it sure produces a directory list f*a*s*t!

-Frank
No I think the OP has some good points about Vista. I'm an IT
professional and just spent 4 hours with a new Vista machine,
trying to get several applications the customer needed on the
machine to
work, most of which would not install, nad those that did, would
not run, not even with compatibility modes.

To top that off, they changed the naming conventions of many
basic icon and menu labels... half of classic view control
panel items have been renamed... all of which just leads to
massive headaches. Those of you who say you enjoy it, do this:
Right click o nthe
desktop top, go to "Personalize" (yep, no Properties" like you'd
expect there to be...) and go to appearance, and you get a
familiar screen where you cna choose "Windows Standard" to get
a Win 2000 view (or "Windows Classic" for 9x style), thne rigth
click on the task bar and go to start menu properties and
change that to classic. What have you got, Win 2000 with newer
icons. The sole reason I can
see for the so called "program incompatibilities" can be traced
to who Vista handles DLL registrations, which most installers do
towards the end of a setup cycle. It seems Vista sabatoged the
"old" method, rather than providing backwards compatibility in
that department. Many other things in Vista seems to be directly
carried over from
previous Windows. All the talk about the "brand new"
architecture or "new core" is a load of bs. Sure they wrote
some things, but it's overly obvious to me they used the same
basic modified-NT core... In other words, Vista is nothing mroe
than a botched XP SP3 with a
new "skin" (MS's own version of Win Blinds if you will) and new
icons, and a couple new goodies, any of which have been around
from other makers, including the "flying windows" task switcher
(which does NOT appear to be on by default, instead I was
greated by the same old swticher since Win 2000.)

Underneath the nice new skin is the same old Windows, with
something renamed and some things tweaked, many which result in
an OS that's difficult to use and get used to, especially if
you've bene using Windows for a very long time.

And then theres the extra DRM... Windows Vista... all in all, no
thanks, I'd rather not waste my money for something I already
have.
So, one could say that Vista is the Windows Me of NT and was only
released to make money?

Alias
More or less. They just took more elaborate messures this time to
make it less obvious with the fancy "skin" (Aero Glass) which
ammitedly makes things looks nice but realyl does slow things
down. Even in classic mode, for a Dual core Duo, it seemed slower
than my own P4 2.4 which only hasa quater of the ram to boot, and
half the video power the custmers spankin new rig had. That alone
makes the situation oh so sad.

 

[Alias]

BWAHAHAHA....

How profound.

Alias

 

[David R. Norton, MVP Shell/User]

the learn'n never stops. Well its a good thing the old saying
doesn't go "If it ain't broke don't fix it". We'd still have stone
wheels.

And no flat tires.

Change isn't all good, it's up to us to weigh the good and bad and
decide accordingly.

 

[norakenwood]

I agree. Vista wins the hands down prize for the worst piece of
BLOATWARE ever made. Christ, a 10 GB footprint??? SLows down any
machine to a crawl in a hurry. Reboots take forever.

Any whoever decided to make that Cancel or Allow bullshit needs to be
lynched.

And my tablet is less than a year old too!

I removed vista and went back to XP tablet.

Wish there was a flavor of unix that worked with the tablet
software....

I want your $259 back from Microsoft! (Cancel) or (Allow)?

 

[Saran]

And no flat tires.

Change isn't all good,

Especially when it's in the wrong direction. I man do we really need
each new version of Windows to have a larger memory and CPU foot print
rather than a smalelr one and at the same time have faster systems that
feel less like a car dragging a boat anchor?

it's up to us to weigh the good and bad and decide accordingly.

Very true.

 

[=?iso-8859-15?Q?dieHard=AE?=]

Except it isn't....

.....it isn't?

I'm still looking for someonw to explain this:

- Go to C:\Windows\Fonts
- right-click anywhere in the right pane and select "Add New Font"

Am I blind or isn't that dialog that pops open straight out of Windows for
WorkGroups 3.11?

"more of the same" is more correct than you might want to admit...

 

[Saran]

....it isn't?

I'm still looking for someonw to explain this:

- Go to C:\Windows\Fonts
- right-click anywhere in the right pane and select "Add New Font"

Am I blind or isn't that dialog that pops open straight out of
Windows for WorkGroups 3.11?

"more of the same" is more correct than you might want to admit...

Thats just another great example. But people like him will likely never
admit it, because they see only what they want to see in Vista.

 

[Nina DiBoy]

So more or less, you just hate vista because of the drm features.

DRM is NOT a feature.

Get on with the times, I'm also IT Pro MCSE, MCSA, MCSDBA. Do you
honestly think your going to talk your customers out of going with
the flow? I doubt that.

Well thats just it, many people that have tried Vista that I know and
have talked to, just don't want it, after they see it for what it really
is: an XP/2003 cleverly disgiused and pumped with mounds of Content
Protection, all in the name of new technology.

Personally, I got board with XP, needed some new challenges.

Well on the view of making money off all the problems there are with it,
then you have a point. However, from a standpoint of how to build your
new system, you cna etiher go with Vista and a multi core system, and
get around the same speed you have with XP on your P4, or stick with XP
Pro (or even 2003) and marry that to a multi core system instead and get
a super fast system, with all of the extra cludges and needly DRM.

As an IT Pro, you of all people should know the
learn'n never stops. Well its a good thing the old saying doesn't go
"If it ain't broke don't fix it". We'd still have stone wheels.

Actually that IS how the old saying goes. Updating a system, installing
patches, et al, is one thing, moving to what is actually an inferior
system, in terms of use. In fact, under the surface, the only really new
technology is DRM, the type that really does threated certain freedoms.
I mean where does it end? [1]

I don't mind new technology at all, I have always greeted it with my
arms wide open, but as soon as it threatens my freedoms, pushed by
certain media companies [2] that have been collaberating with the folks
at Redmond, then thats where I, and many others it seems, draw the line.

If you want to deal with al lthe excessive Content Protection, HDCP and
other DRMs then feel free.

I will of course support Vista as an IT service I preform, as I already
have started doing, but it doesn't mean I have to use it my self. I will
run it in a virtual machine for personal and IT reasons, but thats it.



[1]
I don't know about you, but I really don't want to be told what I can do
with media I've purchased. That and the DRM does nothing to stop the
piracy thats there... you even have HD rips of TV shows and Movies that
look damn good and some are compressed rather well, making downloads
tolerable but still yeilding better quality than a 480i DVD.

It's just the same dam nthing as with the gun laws... imposing
restictions and makign it harder to get something for those who got the
goods legally anyways, while those who always got them illegally, still
do. It's no different. Well, at least gun restrictions can potentially
prevent someone from getting hurt, but i nthe realm of technology and
digital media, it just makes life harder for whose who try to play by
the rules.


[2]
Companies that should never have been alloted such control in the first
place, and in many cases do in fact infinge on our rights, and some
cases, like the Sony Root-Kit, have been down right criminal, and as an
added bonus, providing a cloaking mechism hackers and malware writters
to take advantage of.

The Sony RK was just the beginning it seems. Vista is obviously the next
step in their endevor to control things more tightly.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"I do know for a fact that his monkey really needs a spanking. The monkey
gets "out of hand" if you know what I mean!"

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot

 

[Steve K.]

Can you name ANY operating system that hasn't grown in foot print?
Linux certianly has gotten fatter... Solaris - fatter... Even in the
days of DOS that was the case. DOS 3.1 was much smaller than 6.22...
but then again you weren't stuck with edlin anymore. About the only
OS that I'm not sure about regarding "fattness" is OSX, but after
using it a few times... it sure feels like a pig at least on the
machines I've used.

Give me a break. Every new version of something doesn't have to be more
bloated. Take the dual core CPU's... they are lower clocked, use far
less eletricity than the P4s before it, yet deliver far batter
performance. THAT, my friend, is what progress is about. Streamlining,
making things more efficient and effective rather than simply raw horse
power on a lead-sled.

And your comparison of Linux vs Windows... Linux, like others, has
grown, true, but it's never been, nor is it now, so bloated like Windows
is commonly seen to be... with Vista taking the crown in that category.
In fact Linux and other Unix flavors get continuely improved and
streamlined in many ways, not jsut getting fatter for the sake of
progress.

Why is it other software makers can't learn from AMD and Intel in
regards to less-energy-consumption-yet-better-performing attitude? Why
are the big software companies gonna finally get the picture true power
users want a FAST, streamlined system.

Vista is not progress, it's flash coupled with a huge marketing budget.