My god some people are slow.

C

Chad Harris

If they come recommended by you, Micheal I'm sure they're good. Salon has
some good ones, so does the NY Times. A huge fallacy is that NYT is
liberal and WSJ is conservative. NYT has as many so-called Conservatives as
so-called liberals on the editorial page. The news pages are balanced as
are the WSJ to a degree. Bill Safire who went to the far right in most
areas after 911 fully supports what the NY Time publishes that only a moron
thinks (and their are a lot of them) tipped some security hand to the
terrorists who knew wire tapping and bank account vacuum cleaning were in
full force years ago.

Bin Ladin and El Queada love Bush. His incompetence and his party make it
easy for them and they are as big a threat to Americans as El Queada or any
of hundreds of similar groups.

If IBD published investment information as dumb as their editorial page, the
market would have crashed long ago.

CH
 
M

MICHAEL

I would like for you to stop by the securecomp group and
add your opinion to the discussion surrounding Microsoft's
WGA and the way in which it was delivered to users' computers.
Also, the many reports of it flagging legitimate OSs as not
legitimate. Oh, and the numerous times it phones home.
Does WGA have a "kill switch"?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

Please, stop by.

-Michael
 
C

Chad Harris

Thanks--

WGA Removal
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wga+removal

You can remove the phone home aspect of WGA without disturbing the
validation aspect of WGA. MSFT has futz around and hemmed and hawed as
usual after the discovery of the WGA phoning home so many times per day
saying lol they would cut back the number of times as if that makes a
difference.

MSFT Meeting with US DOJ in Washington DC June 1 and June 2

The U.S. Department of Justice is quietly shopping around the explosive idea
of requiring Internet service providers to retain records of their
customers' online activities.

Data retention rules could permit police to obtain records of e-mail
chatter, Web browsing or chat-room activity months after Internet providers
ordinarily would have deleted the logs--that is, if logs were ever kept in
the first place. No U.S. law currently mandates that such logs be kept.


http://news.com.com/Your+ISP+as+Net+watchdog/2100-1028_3-5748649.html

and more importantly see if you can get a straight answer from anyone in a
MSFT Securities chat as to what they did as a result of their activities in
Wahhington, D.C. on June 1 and June 2 meeting with DOJ and it's agency FBI:

These people know what was done:

Ted Kummert, Corporate Vice President, Security, Access and Solutions
Division
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/kummert/default.mspx

Mike Nash, Corporate Vice President
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/mnash/default.mspx

Pete Boden, director, MSN Security, Microsoft Corporation
Mike Howard, director of corporate security, Microsoft Corporation
Charlie McNerney, general manager, MSN Security, Microsoft Corporation

Brad SmithSenior Vice President, General Counsel, Corporate Secretary, Legal
& Corporate Affairs
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/bradsmith/default.msp
Mary E. SnappCorporate Vice President, Deputy General Counsel Law and
Corporate Affairs Department
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/marysn/default.mspx

Your ISP as Net watchdog

By Declan McCullagh
http://news.com.com/Your+ISP+as+Net+watchdog/2100-1028_3-5748649.html

Story last modified Thu Jun 16 06:42:31 PDT 2005






The U.S. Department of Justice is quietly shopping around the explosive idea
of requiring Internet service providers to retain records of their
customers' online activities.
Data retention rules could permit police to obtain records of e-mail
chatter, Web browsing or chat-room activity months after Internet providers
ordinarily would have deleted the logs--that is, if logs were ever kept in
the first place. No U.S. law currently mandates that such logs be kept.

In theory, at least, data retention could permit successful criminal and
terrorism prosecutions that otherwise would have failed because of
insufficient evidence. But privacy worries and questions about the
practicality of assembling massive databases of customer behavior have
caused a similar proposal to stall in Europe and could engender stiff
opposition domestically.


News.context

What's new:
The U.S. Department of Justice is mulling data retention rules that could
permit police to obtain records of e-mail, browsing or chat-room activity
months after ISPs ordinarily would have deleted the logs--if they were ever
kept in the first place.
Bottom line:
Data retention could aid criminal and terrorism prosecutions, but privacy
worries and questions about the practicality of assembling massive databases
of customer behavior could engender stiff opposition to the proposal.

More stories on this topic

In Europe, the Council of Justice and Home Affairs ministers say logs must
be kept for between one and three years. One U.S. industry representative,
who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the Justice Department is
interested in at least a two-month requirement.

Justice Department officials endorsed the concept at a private meeting with
Internet service providers and the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children, according to interviews with multiple people who were present. The
meeting took place on April 27 at the Holiday Inn Select in Alexandria, Va.

"It was raised not once but several times in the meeting, very
emphatically," said Dave McClure, president of the U.S. Internet Industry
Association, which represents small to midsize companies. "We were told,
'You're going to have to start thinking about data retention if you don't
want people to think you're soft on child porn.'"

McClure said that while the Justice Department representatives argued that
Internet service providers should cooperate voluntarily, they also raised
the "possibility that we should create by law a standard period of data
retention." McClure added that "my sense was that this is something that
they've been working on for a long time."

This represents an abrupt shift in the Justice Department's long-held
position that data retention is unnecessary and imposes an unacceptable
burden on Internet providers. In 2001, the Bush administration expressed
"serious reservations about broad mandatory data retention regimes."

The current proposal appears to originate with the Justice Department's
Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section, which enforces federal child
pornography laws. But once mandated by law, the logs likely would be mined
during terrorism, copyright infringement and even routine criminal
investigations. (The Justice Department did not respond to a request for
comment on Wednesday.)

"Preservation" vs. "Retention"
At the moment, Internet service providers typically discard any log file
that's no longer required for business reasons such as network monitoring,
fraud prevention or billing disputes. Companies do, however, alter that
general rule when contacted by police performing an investigation--a
practice called data preservation.

A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional Records
Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet providers to retain
any "record" in their possession for 90 days "upon the request of a
governmental entity."

"We were told, 'You're going to have to start thinking about data retention
if you don't want people to think you're soft on child porn.'"
--Dave McClure, president, U.S. Internet Industry AssociationChild
protection advocates say that this process can lead police to dead ends if
they don't move quickly enough and log files are discarded automatically.
Also, many Internet service providers don't record information about
instant-messaging conversations or Web sites visited--data that would prove
vital to an investigation.

"Law enforcement agencies are often having 20 reports referred to them a
week by the National Center," said Michelle Collins, director of the
exploited child unit for the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children. "By the time legal process is drafted, it could be 10, 15, 20
days. They're completely dependent on information from the ISPs to trace
back an individual offender."

Collins, who participated in the April meeting, said that she had not
reached a conclusion about how long log files should be retained. "There are
so many various business models...I don't know that there's going to be a
clear-cut answer to what would be the optimum amount of time for a company
to maintain information," she said.

McClure, from the U.S. Internet Industry Association, said he
counter-proposed the idea of police agencies establishing their own
guidelines that would require them to seek logs soon after receiving tips.

Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center,
compared the Justice Department's idea to the since-abandoned Clipper Chip,
a brainchild of the Clinton and first Bush White House. Initially the
Clipper Chip--an encryption system with a backdoor for the federal
government--was supposed to be voluntary, but declassified documents show
that backdoors were supposed to become mandatory.

"Even if your concern is chasing after child pornographers, the packets
don't come pre-labeled that way," Rotenberg said. "What effectively happens
is that all ISP customers, when that data is presented to the government,
become potential targets of subsequent investigations."

A divided Europe
The Justice Department's proposal could import a debate that's been
simmering in Europe for years.

In Europe, a data retention proposal prepared by four nations said that all
telecommunications providers must retain generalized logs of phone calls,
SMS messages, e-mail communications and other "Internet protocols" for at
least one year. Logs would include the addresses of Internet sites and
identities of the correspondents but not necessarily the full content of the
communication.


In other a.. Top 10 MP3 players in Asia
b.. Road Trip 2006
c.. Getting over laptop loss
d.. News.com Extra: Human family tree's shallow roots
e.. Video: Microsoft's IE 7 Beta 3
Even after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush administration
criticized that approach. In November 2001, Mark Richard from the Justice
Department's criminal division said in a speech in Brussels, Belgium, that
the U.S. method offers Internet providers the flexibility "to retain or
destroy the records they generate based upon individual assessments of
resources, architectural limitations, security and other business needs."

France, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Sweden jointly submitted their data
retention proposal to the European Parliament in April 2004. Such mandatory
logging was necessary, they argued, "for the purpose of prevention,
investigation, detection and prosecution of crime or criminal offenses
including terrorism."

But a report prepared this year by Alexander Alvaro on behalf of the
Parliament's civil liberties and home affairs committee slammed the idea,
saying it may violate the European Convention on Human Rights.

Also, Alvaro wrote: "Given the volume of data to be retained, particularly
Internet data, it is unlikely that an appropriate analysis of the data will
be at all possible. Individuals involved in organized crime and terrorism
will easily find a way to prevent their data from being traced." He
calculated that if an Internet provider were to retain all traffic data, the
database would swell to a size of 20,000 to 40,000 terabytes--too large to
search using existing technology.

On June 7, the European Parliament voted by a show of hands to adopt
Alvaro's report and effectively snub the mandatory data retention plan. But
the vote may turn out to have been largely symbolic: The Council of Justice
and Home Affairs ministers have vowed to press ahead with their data
retention requirement.
 
M

MICHAEL

Good info for the unwashed. However, what I really wanted
was your own personal opinion on WGA. In particular,
some dialogue that you may not feel discussing on Microsoft's
server. That is why I invited you to the other newsgroup. There
is one fellow that I would like for you to counterpoint.

There are some posts on 6/27, 2 on 6/29, 6/30, and 7/4
that I would like for you to read.

My biggest concern is the way in which WGA was snuck
into a *critical update* and the fact that version was a
*beta* version. Microsoft sneakily added WGA to a
*critical update*- I find that reprehensible. Some call
it unsolicited spyware- it does phone home and did so
without telling the user.

These are two good articles about the uproar.

Just stop by and add to the discussion.

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/060629/
Dump Windows Update, use alternatives

By Brian Livingston

I've repeatedly heard terms like "furious" and "livid" to describe how people felt about
Microsoft pushing a piece of marketing spyware through the company's sacred mechanism for
distributing critical security updates. Perhaps the most deeply offended were the outside
professionals who have defended Microsoft for years against charges that it's an "evil empire."
Microsoft's abuse of its auto-update system to install an intrusive sales gimmick caused a lot
of these faithful ones to rail against the idea as though personally betrayed.

continued...

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/060615/#story1
Genuine Advantage is Microsoft spyware

By Brian Livingston

Windows Genuine Advantage — the controversial program Microsoft auto-installed as a "critical
security update" on many PCs starting on Apr. 25 — not only causes problems for many users but
has now been proven to send personally identifiable information back to Redmond every 24 hours.

This behavior clearly fits any plausible definition of "spyware." Some tech writers have said
categorizing WGA as spyware is arguable. But I have no hesitation in calling the program a
security nightmare that Microsoft should never have distributed in its present form.

In my May 25 newsletter, I called Microsoft's WGA download a "severe blunder." It causes
serious problems for some legitimate Windows users and was sprung on customers with no notice
other than a press release the day before.

No PC-using company that values security and reliability can allow a program like WGA to send
data to a distant server, download additional software, morph its behavior, or remotely change
the functionality of Windows (as I describe below). I don't believe individuals should put up
with this, either.

Today, I'll explain the problems and let you know what you can do to fix them.

If the spyware label fits, wear it

continued......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
M

MICHAEL

This is the "kill-switch" article I refered to.

I have never been a Microsoft basher, but this latest
fiasco with WGA has me rethinking whether some of
those overly paranoid types were actually right.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
Posted by Ed Bott

Two weeks ago, I wrote about my serious objections to Microsoft's latest salvo in the war
against unauthorized copies of Windows. Two Windows Genuine Advantage components are being
pushed onto users' machines with insufficient notification and inadequate quality control, and
the result is a big mess. (For details, see Microsoft presses the Stupid button.)

Guess what? WGA might be on the verge of getting even messier. In fact, one report claims WGA
is about to become a Windows "kill switch" - and when I asked Microsoft for an on-the-record
response, they refused to deny it.

Last week, a correspondent on Dave Farber's Interesting People list posted some comments about
his experiences with Windows OneCare Live. In the middle of the post, he added this tidbit:

<q>
I like to review updates before they are installed. The only update that I have not installed
is the latest WGA because of the security issues related to it.

I called Microsoft support to see if there is a hidden option to say, "yep, I've got updates
turned to manual. it's okay." The rep said, "No and why wouldn't you want to get the latest
updates to Windows."

I responded with the issues relating to WGA. He spent some time telling me that WGA was a good
thing, etc. I reiterated that I have accepted all the updates except WGA and just want to
review the updates before they're installed on my machine.

He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory and if its not
installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up and WGA isn't
installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA now." [emphasis added]

I'm wondering if Microsoft has the right to disable Windows functionality or the OS as a whole
(tantamount to revoking my legitimate Windows license) if I do not install every piece of
software that they send it updates.
</q>

That can't be true, can it? I'm always suspicious of any report that comes from a front-line
tech support drone, so I sent a note to Microsoft asking for an official confirmation or,
better yet, a denial. Instead, I got this terse response from a Microsoft spokesperson:

<q>As we have mentioned previously, as the WGA Notifications program expands in the future,
customers may be required to participate. [emphasis added] Microsoft is gathering feedback in
select markets to learn how it can best meet its customers' needs and will keep customers
informed of any changes to the program. </q>

That's it. That's the entire response.

Uh-oh. Currently, Windows users have the ability to opt out of the Windows Genuine Advantage
program and still get security patches and other Critical Updates delivered via Windows Update.
The only thing you give up is the ability to download optional updates. Hackers have been
working overtime to find ways to disable WGA notification. If WGA becomes mandatory, would it
mean that Microsoft could prevent Windows from working if it determines - possibly
erroneously - that your copy isn't "genuine"? That's a chilling possibility, and Microsoft
refuses an easy opportunity to deny that that option is in its plans.

continued..... http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
J

Jonah

Leave the wife behind? Remember, 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad ;o)

Yeah Jane, I mentioned the possibility but since she is paying for the
whole thing and I am a pampered layabout its a pretty hard sell, and I
am real good, but that one is not going to fly.

I have been recording Air Crash Investigation and insisting on
watching it with her, maybe there is a chance after all.

LOL

Jonah
 
C

Chad Harris

Ed Bott is the Author of Windows Vista Inside Out MSFT Press. He's always
an excellent source--just spent two days at Redmond talking to the "phone it
in" Product Managers, and has a blog:

http://www.edbott.com/weblog/

CH

The major US city that the North Korean ICBM reaches is Seattle.



MICHAEL said:
This is the "kill-switch" article I refered to.

I have never been a Microsoft basher, but this latest
fiasco with WGA has me rethinking whether some of
those overly paranoid types were actually right.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
Posted by Ed Bott

Two weeks ago, I wrote about my serious objections to Microsoft's latest
salvo in the war
against unauthorized copies of Windows. Two Windows Genuine Advantage
components are being
pushed onto users' machines with insufficient notification and inadequate
quality control, and
the result is a big mess. (For details, see Microsoft presses the Stupid
button.)

Guess what? WGA might be on the verge of getting even messier. In fact,
one report claims WGA
is about to become a Windows "kill switch" - and when I asked Microsoft
for an on-the-record
response, they refused to deny it.

Last week, a correspondent on Dave Farber's Interesting People list posted
some comments about
his experiences with Windows OneCare Live. In the middle of the post, he
added this tidbit:

<q>
I like to review updates before they are installed. The only update that I
have not installed
is the latest WGA because of the security issues related to it.

I called Microsoft support to see if there is a hidden option to say,
"yep, I've got updates
turned to manual. it's okay." The rep said, "No and why wouldn't you want
to get the latest
updates to Windows."

I responded with the issues relating to WGA. He spent some time telling me
that WGA was a good
thing, etc. I reiterated that I have accepted all the updates except WGA
and just want to
review the updates before they're installed on my machine.

He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory
and if its not
installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up
and WGA isn't
installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA
now." [emphasis added]

I'm wondering if Microsoft has the right to disable Windows functionality
or the OS as a whole
(tantamount to revoking my legitimate Windows license) if I do not install
every piece of
software that they send it updates.
</q>

That can't be true, can it? I'm always suspicious of any report that comes
from a front-line
tech support drone, so I sent a note to Microsoft asking for an official
confirmation or,
better yet, a denial. Instead, I got this terse response from a Microsoft
spokesperson:

<q>As we have mentioned previously, as the WGA Notifications program
expands in the future,
customers may be required to participate. [emphasis added] Microsoft is
gathering feedback in
select markets to learn how it can best meet its customers' needs and will
keep customers
informed of any changes to the program. </q>

That's it. That's the entire response.

Uh-oh. Currently, Windows users have the ability to opt out of the Windows
Genuine Advantage
program and still get security patches and other Critical Updates
delivered via Windows Update.
The only thing you give up is the ability to download optional updates.
Hackers have been
working overtime to find ways to disable WGA notification. If WGA becomes
mandatory, would it
mean that Microsoft could prevent Windows from working if it determines -
possibly
erroneously - that your copy isn't "genuine"? That's a chilling
possibility, and Microsoft
refuses an easy opportunity to deny that that option is in its plans.

continued..... http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chad Harris said:
Thanks--

WGA Removal
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wga+removal

You can remove the phone home aspect of WGA without disturbing the
validation aspect of WGA. MSFT has futz around and hemmed and hawed as
usual after the discovery of the WGA phoning home so many times per day
saying lol they would cut back the number of times as if that makes a
difference.

MSFT Meeting with US DOJ in Washington DC June 1 and June 2

The U.S. Department of Justice is quietly shopping around the explosive
idea of requiring Internet service providers to retain records of their
customers' online activities.

Data retention rules could permit police to obtain records of e-mail
chatter, Web browsing or chat-room activity months after Internet
providers ordinarily would have deleted the logs--that is, if logs were
ever kept in the first place. No U.S. law currently mandates that such
logs be kept.


http://news.com.com/Your+ISP+as+Net+watchdog/2100-1028_3-5748649.html

and more importantly see if you can get a straight answer from anyone in
a MSFT Securities chat as to what they did as a result of their
activities in Wahhington, D.C. on June 1 and June 2 meeting with DOJ and
it's agency FBI:

These people know what was done:

Ted Kummert, Corporate Vice President, Security, Access and Solutions
Division
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/kummert/default.mspx

Mike Nash, Corporate Vice President
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/mnash/default.mspx

Pete Boden, director, MSN Security, Microsoft Corporation
Mike Howard, director of corporate security, Microsoft Corporation
Charlie McNerney, general manager, MSN Security, Microsoft Corporation

Brad SmithSenior Vice President, General Counsel, Corporate Secretary,
Legal & Corporate Affairs
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/bradsmith/default.msp
Mary E. SnappCorporate Vice President, Deputy General Counsel Law and
Corporate Affairs Department
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/marysn/default.mspx

Your ISP as Net watchdog

By Declan McCullagh
http://news.com.com/Your+ISP+as+Net+watchdog/2100-1028_3-5748649.html

Story last modified Thu Jun 16 06:42:31 PDT 2005






The U.S. Department of Justice is quietly shopping around the explosive
idea of requiring Internet service providers to retain records of their
customers' online activities.
Data retention rules could permit police to obtain records of e-mail
chatter, Web browsing or chat-room activity months after Internet
providers ordinarily would have deleted the logs--that is, if logs were
ever kept in the first place. No U.S. law currently mandates that such
logs be kept.

In theory, at least, data retention could permit successful criminal and
terrorism prosecutions that otherwise would have failed because of
insufficient evidence. But privacy worries and questions about the
practicality of assembling massive databases of customer behavior have
caused a similar proposal to stall in Europe and could engender stiff
opposition domestically.


News.context

What's new:
The U.S. Department of Justice is mulling data retention rules that could
permit police to obtain records of e-mail, browsing or chat-room activity
months after ISPs ordinarily would have deleted the logs--if they were
ever kept in the first place.
Bottom line:
Data retention could aid criminal and terrorism prosecutions, but privacy
worries and questions about the practicality of assembling massive
databases of customer behavior could engender stiff opposition to the
proposal.

More stories on this topic

In Europe, the Council of Justice and Home Affairs ministers say logs
must be kept for between one and three years. One U.S. industry
representative, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the Justice
Department is interested in at least a two-month requirement.

Justice Department officials endorsed the concept at a private meeting
with Internet service providers and the National Center for Missing and
Exploited Children, according to interviews with multiple people who were
present. The meeting took place on April 27 at the Holiday Inn Select in
Alexandria, Va.

"It was raised not once but several times in the meeting, very
emphatically," said Dave McClure, president of the U.S. Internet Industry
Association, which represents small to midsize companies. "We were told,
'You're going to have to start thinking about data retention if you don't
want people to think you're soft on child porn.'"

McClure said that while the Justice Department representatives argued
that Internet service providers should cooperate voluntarily, they also
raised the "possibility that we should create by law a standard period of
data retention." McClure added that "my sense was that this is something
that they've been working on for a long time."

This represents an abrupt shift in the Justice Department's long-held
position that data retention is unnecessary and imposes an unacceptable
burden on Internet providers. In 2001, the Bush administration expressed
"serious reservations about broad mandatory data retention regimes."

The current proposal appears to originate with the Justice Department's
Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section, which enforces federal child
pornography laws. But once mandated by law, the logs likely would be
mined during terrorism, copyright infringement and even routine criminal
investigations. (The Justice Department did not respond to a request for
comment on Wednesday.)

"Preservation" vs. "Retention"
At the moment, Internet service providers typically discard any log file
that's no longer required for business reasons such as network
monitoring, fraud prevention or billing disputes. Companies do, however,
alter that general rule when contacted by police performing an
investigation--a practice called data preservation.

A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional
Records Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet providers
to retain any "record" in their possession for 90 days "upon the request
of a governmental entity."

"We were told, 'You're going to have to start thinking about data
retention if you don't want people to think you're soft on child porn.'"
--Dave McClure, president, U.S. Internet Industry AssociationChild
protection advocates say that this process can lead police to dead ends
if they don't move quickly enough and log files are discarded
automatically. Also, many Internet service providers don't record
information about instant-messaging conversations or Web sites
visited--data that would prove vital to an investigation.

"Law enforcement agencies are often having 20 reports referred to them a
week by the National Center," said Michelle Collins, director of the
exploited child unit for the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children. "By the time legal process is drafted, it could be 10, 15, 20
days. They're completely dependent on information from the ISPs to trace
back an individual offender."

Collins, who participated in the April meeting, said that she had not
reached a conclusion about how long log files should be retained. "There
are so many various business models...I don't know that there's going to
be a clear-cut answer to what would be the optimum amount of time for a
company to maintain information," she said.

McClure, from the U.S. Internet Industry Association, said he
counter-proposed the idea of police agencies establishing their own
guidelines that would require them to seek logs soon after receiving
tips.

Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center,
compared the Justice Department's idea to the since-abandoned Clipper
Chip, a brainchild of the Clinton and first Bush White House. Initially
the Clipper Chip--an encryption system with a backdoor for the federal
government--was supposed to be voluntary, but declassified documents show
that backdoors were supposed to become mandatory.

"Even if your concern is chasing after child pornographers, the packets
don't come pre-labeled that way," Rotenberg said. "What effectively
happens is that all ISP customers, when that data is presented to the
government, become potential targets of subsequent investigations."

A divided Europe
The Justice Department's proposal could import a debate that's been
simmering in Europe for years.

In Europe, a data retention proposal prepared by four nations said that
all telecommunications providers must retain generalized logs of phone
calls, SMS messages, e-mail communications and other "Internet protocols"
for at least one year. Logs would include the addresses of Internet sites
and identities of the correspondents but not necessarily the full content
of the communication.


In other a.. Top 10 MP3 players in Asia
b.. Road Trip 2006
c.. Getting over laptop loss
d.. News.com Extra: Human family tree's shallow roots
e.. Video: Microsoft's IE 7 Beta 3
Even after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush administration
criticized that approach. In November 2001, Mark Richard from the Justice
Department's criminal division said in a speech in Brussels, Belgium,
that the U.S. method offers Internet providers the flexibility "to retain
or destroy the records they generate based upon individual assessments of
resources, architectural limitations, security and other business needs."

France, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Sweden jointly submitted their
data retention proposal to the European Parliament in April 2004. Such
mandatory logging was necessary, they argued, "for the purpose of
prevention, investigation, detection and prosecution of crime or criminal
offenses including terrorism."

But a report prepared this year by Alexander Alvaro on behalf of the
Parliament's civil liberties and home affairs committee slammed the idea,
saying it may violate the European Convention on Human Rights.

Also, Alvaro wrote: "Given the volume of data to be retained,
particularly Internet data, it is unlikely that an appropriate analysis
of the data will be at all possible. Individuals involved in organized
crime and terrorism will easily find a way to prevent their data from
being traced." He calculated that if an Internet provider were to retain
all traffic data, the database would swell to a size of 20,000 to 40,000
terabytes--too large to search using existing technology.

On June 7, the European Parliament voted by a show of hands to adopt
Alvaro's report and effectively snub the mandatory data retention plan.
But the vote may turn out to have been largely symbolic: The Council of
Justice and Home Affairs ministers have vowed to press ahead with their
data retention requirement.
 
J

jonah

snip

2 things

1. Please tell me what the 6 bridges are I have been trying to work it
out but there are thousands of the things all over the US.
There are six
bridges in the US and if you were to take them out you could instantly
paralyze commerce and much of that commerce would travel by 18 wheeler.

2. Wheres this anti WGA NG. - compsecure? - can't see it anywhere
whats the full name?

Ta

Jonah
 
C

Chad Harris

Michael--

This will interest you. Later on, I'll find the components of WGA and some
of the best removers of the "WGA phone Redmond softies who want to snoop on
you:" sites--WGA is giving Brad Smith's site a chance to brush up on their
federal class action defense though.

Another WGA Class Action Suit Againts MSFT in Federal District Court'

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/104709.asp

CH


MICHAEL said:
This is the "kill-switch" article I refered to.

I have never been a Microsoft basher, but this latest
fiasco with WGA has me rethinking whether some of
those overly paranoid types were actually right.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
Posted by Ed Bott

Two weeks ago, I wrote about my serious objections to Microsoft's latest
salvo in the war
against unauthorized copies of Windows. Two Windows Genuine Advantage
components are being
pushed onto users' machines with insufficient notification and inadequate
quality control, and
the result is a big mess. (For details, see Microsoft presses the Stupid
button.)

Guess what? WGA might be on the verge of getting even messier. In fact,
one report claims WGA
is about to become a Windows "kill switch" - and when I asked Microsoft
for an on-the-record
response, they refused to deny it.

Last week, a correspondent on Dave Farber's Interesting People list posted
some comments about
his experiences with Windows OneCare Live. In the middle of the post, he
added this tidbit:

<q>
I like to review updates before they are installed. The only update that I
have not installed
is the latest WGA because of the security issues related to it.

I called Microsoft support to see if there is a hidden option to say,
"yep, I've got updates
turned to manual. it's okay." The rep said, "No and why wouldn't you want
to get the latest
updates to Windows."

I responded with the issues relating to WGA. He spent some time telling me
that WGA was a good
thing, etc. I reiterated that I have accepted all the updates except WGA
and just want to
review the updates before they're installed on my machine.

He told me that "in the fall, having the latest WGA will become mandatory
and if its not
installed, Windows will give a 30 day warning and when the 30 days is up
and WGA isn't
installed, Windows will stop working, so you might as well install WGA
now." [emphasis added]

I'm wondering if Microsoft has the right to disable Windows functionality
or the OS as a whole
(tantamount to revoking my legitimate Windows license) if I do not install
every piece of
software that they send it updates.
</q>

That can't be true, can it? I'm always suspicious of any report that comes
from a front-line
tech support drone, so I sent a note to Microsoft asking for an official
confirmation or,
better yet, a denial. Instead, I got this terse response from a Microsoft
spokesperson:

<q>As we have mentioned previously, as the WGA Notifications program
expands in the future,
customers may be required to participate. [emphasis added] Microsoft is
gathering feedback in
select markets to learn how it can best meet its customers' needs and will
keep customers
informed of any changes to the program. </q>

That's it. That's the entire response.

Uh-oh. Currently, Windows users have the ability to opt out of the Windows
Genuine Advantage
program and still get security patches and other Critical Updates
delivered via Windows Update.
The only thing you give up is the ability to download optional updates.
Hackers have been
working overtime to find ways to disable WGA notification. If WGA becomes
mandatory, would it
mean that Microsoft could prevent Windows from working if it determines -
possibly
erroneously - that your copy isn't "genuine"? That's a chilling
possibility, and Microsoft
refuses an easy opportunity to deny that that option is in its plans.

continued..... http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chad Harris said:
Thanks--

WGA Removal
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wga+removal

You can remove the phone home aspect of WGA without disturbing the
validation aspect of WGA. MSFT has futz around and hemmed and hawed as
usual after the discovery of the WGA phoning home so many times per day
saying lol they would cut back the number of times as if that makes a
difference.

MSFT Meeting with US DOJ in Washington DC June 1 and June 2

The U.S. Department of Justice is quietly shopping around the explosive
idea of requiring Internet service providers to retain records of their
customers' online activities.

Data retention rules could permit police to obtain records of e-mail
chatter, Web browsing or chat-room activity months after Internet
providers ordinarily would have deleted the logs--that is, if logs were
ever kept in the first place. No U.S. law currently mandates that such
logs be kept.


http://news.com.com/Your+ISP+as+Net+watchdog/2100-1028_3-5748649.html

and more importantly see if you can get a straight answer from anyone in
a MSFT Securities chat as to what they did as a result of their
activities in Wahhington, D.C. on June 1 and June 2 meeting with DOJ and
it's agency FBI:

These people know what was done:

Ted Kummert, Corporate Vice President, Security, Access and Solutions
Division
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/kummert/default.mspx

Mike Nash, Corporate Vice President
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/mnash/default.mspx

Pete Boden, director, MSN Security, Microsoft Corporation
Mike Howard, director of corporate security, Microsoft Corporation
Charlie McNerney, general manager, MSN Security, Microsoft Corporation

Brad SmithSenior Vice President, General Counsel, Corporate Secretary,
Legal & Corporate Affairs
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/bradsmith/default.msp
Mary E. SnappCorporate Vice President, Deputy General Counsel Law and
Corporate Affairs Department
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/marysn/default.mspx

Your ISP as Net watchdog

By Declan McCullagh
http://news.com.com/Your+ISP+as+Net+watchdog/2100-1028_3-5748649.html

Story last modified Thu Jun 16 06:42:31 PDT 2005






The U.S. Department of Justice is quietly shopping around the explosive
idea of requiring Internet service providers to retain records of their
customers' online activities.
Data retention rules could permit police to obtain records of e-mail
chatter, Web browsing or chat-room activity months after Internet
providers ordinarily would have deleted the logs--that is, if logs were
ever kept in the first place. No U.S. law currently mandates that such
logs be kept.

In theory, at least, data retention could permit successful criminal and
terrorism prosecutions that otherwise would have failed because of
insufficient evidence. But privacy worries and questions about the
practicality of assembling massive databases of customer behavior have
caused a similar proposal to stall in Europe and could engender stiff
opposition domestically.


News.context

What's new:
The U.S. Department of Justice is mulling data retention rules that could
permit police to obtain records of e-mail, browsing or chat-room activity
months after ISPs ordinarily would have deleted the logs--if they were
ever kept in the first place.
Bottom line:
Data retention could aid criminal and terrorism prosecutions, but privacy
worries and questions about the practicality of assembling massive
databases of customer behavior could engender stiff opposition to the
proposal.

More stories on this topic

In Europe, the Council of Justice and Home Affairs ministers say logs
must be kept for between one and three years. One U.S. industry
representative, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the Justice
Department is interested in at least a two-month requirement.

Justice Department officials endorsed the concept at a private meeting
with Internet service providers and the National Center for Missing and
Exploited Children, according to interviews with multiple people who were
present. The meeting took place on April 27 at the Holiday Inn Select in
Alexandria, Va.

"It was raised not once but several times in the meeting, very
emphatically," said Dave McClure, president of the U.S. Internet Industry
Association, which represents small to midsize companies. "We were told,
'You're going to have to start thinking about data retention if you don't
want people to think you're soft on child porn.'"

McClure said that while the Justice Department representatives argued
that Internet service providers should cooperate voluntarily, they also
raised the "possibility that we should create by law a standard period of
data retention." McClure added that "my sense was that this is something
that they've been working on for a long time."

This represents an abrupt shift in the Justice Department's long-held
position that data retention is unnecessary and imposes an unacceptable
burden on Internet providers. In 2001, the Bush administration expressed
"serious reservations about broad mandatory data retention regimes."

The current proposal appears to originate with the Justice Department's
Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section, which enforces federal child
pornography laws. But once mandated by law, the logs likely would be
mined during terrorism, copyright infringement and even routine criminal
investigations. (The Justice Department did not respond to a request for
comment on Wednesday.)

"Preservation" vs. "Retention"
At the moment, Internet service providers typically discard any log file
that's no longer required for business reasons such as network
monitoring, fraud prevention or billing disputes. Companies do, however,
alter that general rule when contacted by police performing an
investigation--a practice called data preservation.

A 1996 federal law called the Electronic Communication Transactional
Records Act regulates data preservation. It requires Internet providers
to retain any "record" in their possession for 90 days "upon the request
of a governmental entity."

"We were told, 'You're going to have to start thinking about data
retention if you don't want people to think you're soft on child porn.'"
--Dave McClure, president, U.S. Internet Industry AssociationChild
protection advocates say that this process can lead police to dead ends
if they don't move quickly enough and log files are discarded
automatically. Also, many Internet service providers don't record
information about instant-messaging conversations or Web sites
visited--data that would prove vital to an investigation.

"Law enforcement agencies are often having 20 reports referred to them a
week by the National Center," said Michelle Collins, director of the
exploited child unit for the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children. "By the time legal process is drafted, it could be 10, 15, 20
days. They're completely dependent on information from the ISPs to trace
back an individual offender."

Collins, who participated in the April meeting, said that she had not
reached a conclusion about how long log files should be retained. "There
are so many various business models...I don't know that there's going to
be a clear-cut answer to what would be the optimum amount of time for a
company to maintain information," she said.

McClure, from the U.S. Internet Industry Association, said he
counter-proposed the idea of police agencies establishing their own
guidelines that would require them to seek logs soon after receiving
tips.

Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center,
compared the Justice Department's idea to the since-abandoned Clipper
Chip, a brainchild of the Clinton and first Bush White House. Initially
the Clipper Chip--an encryption system with a backdoor for the federal
government--was supposed to be voluntary, but declassified documents show
that backdoors were supposed to become mandatory.

"Even if your concern is chasing after child pornographers, the packets
don't come pre-labeled that way," Rotenberg said. "What effectively
happens is that all ISP customers, when that data is presented to the
government, become potential targets of subsequent investigations."

A divided Europe
The Justice Department's proposal could import a debate that's been
simmering in Europe for years.

In Europe, a data retention proposal prepared by four nations said that
all telecommunications providers must retain generalized logs of phone
calls, SMS messages, e-mail communications and other "Internet protocols"
for at least one year. Logs would include the addresses of Internet sites
and identities of the correspondents but not necessarily the full content
of the communication.


In other a.. Top 10 MP3 players in Asia
b.. Road Trip 2006
c.. Getting over laptop loss
d.. News.com Extra: Human family tree's shallow roots
e.. Video: Microsoft's IE 7 Beta 3
Even after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush administration
criticized that approach. In November 2001, Mark Richard from the Justice
Department's criminal division said in a speech in Brussels, Belgium,
that the U.S. method offers Internet providers the flexibility "to retain
or destroy the records they generate based upon individual assessments of
resources, architectural limitations, security and other business needs."

France, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Sweden jointly submitted their
data retention proposal to the European Parliament in April 2004. Such
mandatory logging was necessary, they argued, "for the purpose of
prevention, investigation, detection and prosecution of crime or criminal
offenses including terrorism."

But a report prepared this year by Alexander Alvaro on behalf of the
Parliament's civil liberties and home affairs committee slammed the idea,
saying it may violate the European Convention on Human Rights.

Also, Alvaro wrote: "Given the volume of data to be retained,
particularly Internet data, it is unlikely that an appropriate analysis
of the data will be at all possible. Individuals involved in organized
crime and terrorism will easily find a way to prevent their data from
being traced." He calculated that if an Internet provider were to retain
all traffic data, the database would swell to a size of 20,000 to 40,000
terabytes--too large to search using existing technology.

On June 7, the European Parliament voted by a show of hands to adopt
Alvaro's report and effectively snub the mandatory data retention plan.
But the vote may turn out to have been largely symbolic: The Council of
Justice and Home Affairs ministers have vowed to press ahead with their
data retention requirement.
 
T

Takali Omega

I'm in Bearflanks ... I mean Fairbanks. Chased after my present wife who
was coming up here for university. No idea why she picked this place, but
now we're stuck. If you come up here, let me know. I have a small cyber
cafe type shop and host a weekly radio show about computers. Believe it or
not, AK is the most connected state in the US. Has to be or no one would
ever hear from any of us again. :)

Nome is a LOT smaller than most people think it is. There is NOTHING to do
there, and I mean that with all my heart.

Cars. Simple answer for you, but on an Alaskans view: What's a TransAm?
LOL A TransAm would get you to the edge of the city limits up here, then
maybe another 10 miles down the road. After that, you wouldn't last. My
wife is a TINY woman and drives a big Toyota 4WD PickUp. Kinda funny to
see, but nessesary if you live, as we do, outside of town.
 
J

Jonah

I'm in Bearflanks ... I mean Fairbanks. Chased after my present wife who
was coming up here for university. No idea why she picked this place, but
now we're stuck. If you come up here, let me know. I have a small cyber
cafe type shop and host a weekly radio show about computers. Believe it or
not, AK is the most connected state in the US. Has to be or no one would
ever hear from any of us again. :)

Nome is a LOT smaller than most people think it is. There is NOTHING to do
there, and I mean that with all my heart.

Cars. Simple answer for you, but on an Alaskans view: What's a TransAm?
LOL A TransAm would get you to the edge of the city limits up here, then
maybe another 10 miles down the road. After that, you wouldn't last. My
wife is a TINY woman and drives a big Toyota 4WD PickUp. Kinda funny to
see, but nessesary if you live, as we do, outside of town.
Its just I always wanted to see Nome, don't know why maybe just to say
I had been., such a wierd name.

I will probably do the Pacific Highway next year and visit Alaska in
2008, I do want to see Alaska so I will look you up when I get there.
Tried a lot of American Cars, they are all terrible for anything but a
straight line so I figure if I am going to have to drive several
thousand miles in a Yank car I may as well have something that has
character instead of a version of the Ford Mondeo with soggy yank
suspension, hence big old muscle cars. Had a Challenger years ago,
used to sprint race it against all sorts of euro boxes and trick Jap
stuff, Challenger blew em all away - 7.0 Litre engines, no substitute
for CCs in a straight line, cornering / brakes, forget about it,
written application to turn required 3 days in advance :cool:

I will end up with some bland, boring rubbish though no doubt.

OTOH I may go northwest, in which case I wil rent the biggest,
nastiest, gas guzzling 4x4 I can find.

Jonah
 
H

Homer J. Simpson

I'm not oblivious to any of those things. I was only pointing out that
strictly speaking I'd still be able to download Vista if I needed to. Of
course the rest of the infrastructure will go to hell in a handbasket, and
in the longer term yeah something will probably break that would prevent
even downloads of static files sitting on static servers...the point I was
trying to convey had very limited scope, to the point of being pedantic. I
didn't realise I was gonna make you waste a few paragraphs on this...
 
C

Chad Harris

MICHAEL said:
Good info for the unwashed. However, what I really wanted
was your own personal opinion on WGA. In particular,
some dialogue that you may not feel discussing on Microsoft's
server. That is why I invited you to the other newsgroup. There
is one fellow that I would like for you to counterpoint.

There are some posts on 6/27, 2 on 6/29, 6/30, and 7/4
that I would like for you to read.

My biggest concern is the way in which WGA was snuck
into a *critical update* and the fact that version was a
*beta* version. Microsoft sneakily added WGA to a
*critical update*- I find that reprehensible. Some call
it unsolicited spyware- it does phone home and did so
without telling the user.

These are two good articles about the uproar.

Just stop by and add to the discussion.

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/060629/
Dump Windows Update, use alternatives

By Brian Livingston

I've repeatedly heard terms like "furious" and "livid" to describe how
people felt about Microsoft pushing a piece of marketing spyware through
the company's sacred mechanism for distributing critical security updates.
Perhaps the most deeply offended were the outside professionals who have
defended Microsoft for years against charges that it's an "evil empire."
Microsoft's abuse of its auto-update system to install an intrusive sales
gimmick caused a lot of these faithful ones to rail against the idea as
though personally betrayed.

continued...

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/060615/#story1
Genuine Advantage is Microsoft spyware

By Brian Livingston

Windows Genuine Advantage — the controversial program Microsoft
auto-installed as a "critical security update" on many PCs starting on
Apr. 25 — not only causes problems for many users but has now been proven
to send personally identifiable information back to Redmond every 24
hours.

This behavior clearly fits any plausible definition of "spyware." Some
tech writers have said categorizing WGA as spyware is arguable. But I have
no hesitation in calling the program a security nightmare that Microsoft
should never have distributed in its present form.

In my May 25 newsletter, I called Microsoft's WGA download a "severe
blunder." It causes serious problems for some legitimate Windows users and
was sprung on customers with no notice other than a press release the day
before.

No PC-using company that values security and reliability can allow a
program like WGA to send data to a distant server, download additional
software, morph its behavior, or remotely change the functionality of
Windows (as I describe below). I don't believe individuals should put up
with this, either.

Today, I'll explain the problems and let you know what you can do to fix
them.

If the spyware label fits, wear it

continued......
 

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