I suggest a new buisness strategy.

[Charlie Tame]

Here's a Linux flavor that I am getting ready to try on
another desktop.

http://supergamer.org/
The Super Gamer is a Live DVD that was previously based on the core of PClinuxOS. Now it is
based on the core of VectorLinux, put together by Darin. Darin started out making the Super
Gamer for his own, and some friends' enjoyment.
Soon others got a copy and decided they liked it.
Some jumped onboard to help test and develop. Then releases were made which were geared up
towards requested hardware. The Super Gamer is optimized for a gaming computer environment,
with some tweaks to help speed up running from the LiveDVD. Extra games were added along with
some demos of proprietary games. All Games are Linux Native. Users wishing to run Windows
Native games, may install Wine or a Wine related application such as Cedega.

Further to the PCLinux saga...

On another machine SAM Linux (Same base) ran with good res GFX either
installed or from the CD. On this machine it is down to 800X600 and the
only difference is that one has NVidia 7600 (or 7800 - can't remember)
and this machine has a 7950. It had two but the SLI setup didn't make
much difference under XP (Certainly not 100s $ worth) and under Vista
SLI hosed everything.

So I tried PCLinux on here, neither full install nor Live CD got more
than 800X600 so I guess it's the same as SAM.

 

[GO]

lol...just as I suspected!
That wasn't difficult was it?

Absolutely. Funny, but no surprise, that you picked out two words out my
entire post rather than addressing the real issue being discussed.

And I'm sure your post draws rave reviews and many kudos at open sores
dungeons.
Frank

"open sores dungeons"...what are *you* talking about?
Please explain.

 

[GO]

Since you're new, you need to understand where Frank is coming from.
He's told us he had a awful time with getting Vista to work, yet he
likes to pass himself off as a Windows expert. In fact he told us he
had to hire consultants for his "business" and together it took them
six months before they got Vista to work right. Frank has told us he
runs some "marketing" company, then quickly adds he runs it from his
home, probably some MLM or chain letter scam he operates off his
kitchen table. I guess it gets kind of crowded with all those
"consultants" running around in Frank's house which if he's lucky is
probably some double wide trailer in hillbilly country.

Frank also used to add goofy comments to all his posts like smirk. Yet
he tries to pass himself off as some accomplished business person,
which I guess explains why he needs to try to pick fights with anybody
that is even a little critical of Windows. Odd, considering it was
Frank that volunteered it took him six months to "master" Vista to a
point it actually worked for him.

The truth is Frank is nothing but your typical closed-mined hot-headed
little troll that hates with a passion anybody that dares to mention
Linux or points out Windows flaws. Frank enjoys spreading lies and
trying to fake being very clever and knowledgeable. Still we all like
Frank, he's fun to play with and kick around like all trolls are. ;-)

LOL. Who wants to play kick the troll?! Aaah...this group cracks me up.

 

[Lang Murphy]

Lang,

Have you tried PCLinuxOS? I like it more than Ubuntu.
I believe this is the distro to keep an eye on. While Ubuntu
has come a long way and works well, I actually think PCLinuxOS
is a bit better. It has the simplicity and user friendliness
of Ubuntu, but IMO does it better.

I'm using it right now on a VMware virtual machine, and also on
a partition on one of my other desktops. This post is coming
from the vm.

I'm certainly not ready to leave Windows, but some of these
Linux flavors have improved significantly. While I always hear
many users say that Linux is for the geeks and those that like
to mess around, I disagree. If all a user wants to do is surf
the web, write emails, IM- PCLinuxOS or Ubuntu are very capable
of doing all that and more.

Try it.
http://www.pclinuxos.com/


Take care,

Michael

Michael,

No, I've not tried PCLinuxOS. Sounds interesting and worth a "look-see." I
read your other reply too but have not checked any of the links yet... Is
the PCLinuxOS CD a "live" CD that one can use to check out the OS without
actually installing it?

Thanks,

Lang

 

[Lang Murphy]

I think you've missed my point. Of course people are here to report
problems with Vista, but what I was trying to get across is that there is
sharp increase with people who are unhappy with MS/Vista. Yes, the same
thing happened when XP was released but it seems to be on a much bigger
scale with Vista.

Well, I have no clue what metrics you're using to say that it seems to be on
a much bigger scale with Vista. I don't dispute that opinion, I just don't
know how valid it is in the overall scheme of things. (And that's not meant
to discount your opinion, not at all.)

I thought I made that clear before. They are happy with what they have
now
(2k/XP) but they aren't happy with what the future is going to bring.
It's
only a matter of time before the Vista virus will be spread across the
world
and these people are looking for alternatives. I'm guessing you're
thinking
right now, why don't they just stick with XP or 2k? That's fine for now,
but it's only a matter of time before developers stop supporting hardware
on
these platforms. Also, I only made mention of this fact just as a
personal
example of pretty much every day users who never had an inkling of an idea
to switch to something else but are now starting to look for alternatives.

Well... obviously it wasn't clear to me. And as I said... I've tried a
number of nix distros over the years and have not found one I'm happy with
as a "Windows replacement." Of course, with the number of nix distros
available, and the high frequency with which they're updated, no doubt there
will be a nix distro that "works" for me, at some point. At Michael's
recommendation, I intend to check out PCLinuxOS.

Thanks,

Lang

 

[Charlie Tame]

Michael,

No, I've not tried PCLinuxOS. Sounds interesting and worth a "look-see."
I read your other reply too but have not checked any of the links yet...
Is the PCLinuxOS CD a "live" CD that one can use to check out the OS
without actually installing it?

Thanks,

Lang

Yes it is. I have also used "SAM" which is based on it, but neither
liked by video card so set themselves up at 800 X 600 when on an almost
identical (Except the video card) machine they started at 1280 X 1024
and that is an older card.

 

[GO]

Well, I have no clue what metrics you're using to say that it seems
to be on a much bigger scale with Vista. I don't dispute that
opinion, I just don't know how valid it is in the overall scheme of
things. (And that's not meant to discount your opinion, not at all.)

It is my opinion...nothing more, nothing less. And you're right, there may
not be much validity to my statements. But it was just an observation based
on personal experiences and through the volume of posts I've seen on the
matter. To me, that indicates that it is a fairly large trend. Will it be
enough to hurt or cripple MS? Not likely as the Vista train is already
running full steam ahead and will become the next major OS on user's
workstations. Personally I do wish it was enough to wake MS and really
start innovating again. Firefox was a nice jab in their side, and enough to
push them to work on IE7.

Well... obviously it wasn't clear to me. And as I said... I've tried a
number of nix distros over the years and have not found one I'm happy
with as a "Windows replacement." Of course, with the number of nix
distros available, and the high frequency with which they're updated,
no doubt there will be a nix distro that "works" for me, at some
point. At Michael's recommendation, I intend to check out PCLinuxOS.

Thanks,

Lang

Well, I'm in the same boat. Linux can and will replace Windows for a lot of
users, especially for your average user that only needs to surf the web and
check their email. Ubuntu is actually really nice but I'm not ready to jump
ship just yet. Gaming's the biggest draw keeping me on Windows, but I also
have a lot invested it. Not necessarily financial investments, but in terms
of I have everything I need and everything works, and I know *how* things
work.

 

[Ian Betts]

Here is a link for PCLinux

http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12554-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=30915&messageID=622484&start=-9546

But as this is a Vista list can I suggest you google for linux lists that
will help no end.

 

[MICHAEL]

* Lang Murphy:

Michael,

No, I've not tried PCLinuxOS. Sounds interesting and worth a "look-see." I
read your other reply too but have not checked any of the links yet... Is
the PCLinuxOS CD a "live" CD that one can use to check out the OS without
actually installing it?

Yes, it's a LiveCD.

I made the offer for Windows Home Server, and that offer
stands for this- if I can be of assistance, just email me.


Take care,

Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

* GO:

It is my opinion...nothing more, nothing less. And you're right, there may
not be much validity to my statements. But it was just an observation based
on personal experiences and through the volume of posts I've seen on the
matter. To me, that indicates that it is a fairly large trend. Will it be
enough to hurt or cripple MS? Not likely as the Vista train is already
running full steam ahead and will become the next major OS on user's
workstations. Personally I do wish it was enough to wake MS and really
start innovating again. Firefox was a nice jab in their side, and enough to
push them to work on IE7.

Well, I'm in the same boat. Linux can and will replace Windows for a lot of
users, especially for your average user that only needs to surf the web and
check their email. Ubuntu is actually really nice but I'm not ready to jump
ship just yet. Gaming's the biggest draw keeping me on Windows, but I also
have a lot invested it. Not necessarily financial investments, but in terms
of I have everything I need and everything works, and I know *how* things
work.

I completely understand where you are coming from. I, too, have much
money and time invested in Windows and various software... I'm not
comfortable giving that up, yet. Like you, my comfort level and knowledge
centers around Windows, and it's hard leaving the familiar. But, I do like to
play and test different things, and perhaps one day, I will be as familiar with
Linux as I am with Windows. I've seen a lot of positive changes with some
Linux flavors or the years, they are definitely not staying stagnant.

Unfortunately, that is how I see Microsoft and Windows- stale and stagnant.


Take care,

Michael

 

[Charlie Tame]

* GO:


I completely understand where you are coming from. I, too, have much
money and time invested in Windows and various software... I'm not
comfortable giving that up, yet. Like you, my comfort level and knowledge
centers around Windows, and it's hard leaving the familiar. But, I do like to
play and test different things, and perhaps one day, I will be as familiar with
Linux as I am with Windows. I've seen a lot of positive changes with some
Linux flavors or the years, they are definitely not staying stagnant.

Unfortunately, that is how I see Microsoft and Windows- stale and stagnant.


Take care,

Michael

Well there's nothing "New" except the better looking desktop but they
took away a lot of things that were "Familiar, or at least moved them,
for no logical reason. If UAC actually worked better than it does I can
see some companies moving to Vista for security reasons but UAC can
still be overridden so you still need a 3rd party AV and other stuff...
there's no extra security when users can simply ignore it and thus no
cost saving etc. This is NOT MS fault by the way, just a fact of life.
Maybe domain level security is better, don't know about that.

WMP used to play just about everything but now plays almost nothing
"Automatically find and download Codecs" is a joke, but DivX is very
good and the interface hasn't changed where you can't find the
controls. Stuff you had for years can't be played without jumping
through hoops.

Email that used to work (Outlook Express) is not longer available and is
replaced by numerous incarnations of Windows mail, that work for a while
but have now been abandoned, changed or switched to APOPS
authentication with my own and my ISP's mail servers won't talk to.
Guess what, Thunderbird not only looks like OE but it works like OE, and
it works on Linux and does newsgroups like OE. It's also a LOT faster
than OE and faster still than anything currently being offered by MS.
(Okay I use IceDove too but that is de-branded Thunderbird )

I dunno about WOW, I think WOE (Waste Of Effort) is how many will view
the changes.

There's also a performance hit since Vista has more to do than XP had,
through more complex routines, but machine speed has not increased that
much to offset it. It's very noticeably slower for the "Ultimate" gamer
and it's no use to keep blaming the "Drivers" because time will tell.
It's not that much slower, but gamers want the frame rates. Add to this
the fact that many more games cause trouble than they did with XP and ya
have to ask "Why bother".

Now, the reasons these are concerns are quite visible. At this time
Windows undoubtedly has the best graphics technology and the best
support, and the best "Plug 'n Play". Linux however is catching up.
Drivers are coming out quicker and being written by the hardware folks
proper rather than being "Patches" or "Wrappers". The Plug and Play
stuff is improving all the time and Debian now has a "Windows Update"
like system. The worst aspect is there's still a LOT of difficulty with
many drivers, especially GFX and no really good games.

Many Sys Admins are familiar with Windows and lack confidence with
Linux, so as support improves the familiarity shield that MS currently
enjoys will fade. The killer here is that Linux is secure out of the box
and an admin could just install the minimum and be up and running very
quickly. Don't misunderstand, I am not claiming it is a "Perfect"
solution or that it's wonderfully easy, but OTOH it is cheap

I think MS fixed a lot of stuff that wasn't broken (Simply moving stuff
to unfamiliar places for no sensible reason) and broke stuff that could
have been left alone.

I think what the MVPs here miss is the fact that this WILL impact
Longhorn adoption and WILL start companies looking at alternatives, once
a company changes a lot of desktops will go with it, particularly if
changing those desktops will improve overall network security.

 

[MICHAEL]

* Charlie Tame:

Well there's nothing "New" except the better looking desktop but they
took away a lot of things that were "Familiar, or at least moved them,
for no logical reason. If UAC actually worked better than it does I can
see some companies moving to Vista for security reasons but UAC can
still be overridden so you still need a 3rd party AV and other stuff...
there's no extra security when users can simply ignore it and thus no
cost saving etc. This is NOT MS fault by the way, just a fact of life.
Maybe domain level security is better, don't know about that.

WMP used to play just about everything but now plays almost nothing
"Automatically find and download Codecs" is a joke, but DivX is very
good and the interface hasn't changed where you can't find the
controls. Stuff you had for years can't be played without jumping
through hoops.

Email that used to work (Outlook Express) is not longer available and is
replaced by numerous incarnations of Windows mail, that work for a while
but have now been abandoned, changed or switched to APOPS
authentication with my own and my ISP's mail servers won't talk to.
Guess what, Thunderbird not only looks like OE but it works like OE, and
it works on Linux and does newsgroups like OE. It's also a LOT faster
than OE and faster still than anything currently being offered by MS.
(Okay I use IceDove too but that is de-branded Thunderbird )

I dunno about WOW, I think WOE (Waste Of Effort) is how many will view
the changes.

There's also a performance hit since Vista has more to do than XP had,
through more complex routines, but machine speed has not increased that
much to offset it. It's very noticeably slower for the "Ultimate" gamer
and it's no use to keep blaming the "Drivers" because time will tell.
It's not that much slower, but gamers want the frame rates. Add to this
the fact that many more games cause trouble than they did with XP and ya
have to ask "Why bother".

Now, the reasons these are concerns are quite visible. At this time
Windows undoubtedly has the best graphics technology and the best
support, and the best "Plug 'n Play". Linux however is catching up.
Drivers are coming out quicker and being written by the hardware folks
proper rather than being "Patches" or "Wrappers". The Plug and Play
stuff is improving all the time and Debian now has a "Windows Update"
like system. The worst aspect is there's still a LOT of difficulty with
many drivers, especially GFX and no really good games.

Many Sys Admins are familiar with Windows and lack confidence with
Linux, so as support improves the familiarity shield that MS currently
enjoys will fade. The killer here is that Linux is secure out of the box
and an admin could just install the minimum and be up and running very
quickly. Don't misunderstand, I am not claiming it is a "Perfect"
solution or that it's wonderfully easy, but OTOH it is cheap

I think MS fixed a lot of stuff that wasn't broken (Simply moving stuff
to unfamiliar places for no sensible reason) and broke stuff that could
have been left alone.

I think what the MVPs here miss is the fact that this WILL impact
Longhorn adoption and WILL start companies looking at alternatives, once
a company changes a lot of desktops will go with it, particularly if
changing those desktops will improve overall network security.

A most excellent summation.

I spent most of yesterday using PCLinuxOS, by the time I
was done, I realized I had forgotten all about Vista. For those
users who aren't addicted to Microsoft Office products (like me),
especially Outlook, or use other specialized software- there are
several Linux flavors that can do everything they need, and it's
only getting better. The ultimate ace-in-the-hole is the price.
Sooner or later, Microsoft's desktop monopoly will end.
Vista has done nothing to stop that, either.


-Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

* GO:

PCLinuxOS eh? I just may have to give it a try.

I rarely push Linux products in this newsgroup. For the
most part, I feel it's not the place. Especially, when suggesting
such, usually ends up in long useless back and forth threads.
Folks come here for help, not to be constantly bombarded about
Linux... a mention here are there seems well enough.

But, sometimes I get fired up and just wanted folks to know there
are viable alternatives to Windows.... PCLinuxOS is one of those, and
so is Ubuntu.

I hope you do try PCLinuxOS, I have been most impressed.
Even though I feel the OOBE is super and it is ready to go
as a Windows replacement for many users, here is a link that
may help some achieve the "total" package... just in case they
feel PCLinuxOS is missing a few things. Of course, you can pick
and choose what you want or don't want. Best of all, it's all free.

http://www.howtoforge.com/the_perfect_desktop_pclinuxos_2007

If you do give it a go, I'd be interested in your opinions.


Take care,

Michael

 

[GO]

* Charlie Tame:

A most excellent summation.
Agreed!

I spent most of yesterday using PCLinuxOS, by the time I
was done, I realized I had forgotten all about Vista. For those
users who aren't addicted to Microsoft Office products (like me),
especially Outlook, or use other specialized software- there are
several Linux flavors that can do everything they need, and it's
only getting better. The ultimate ace-in-the-hole is the price.
Sooner or later, Microsoft's desktop monopoly will end.
Vista has done nothing to stop that, either.

-Michael

PCLinuxOS eh? I just may have to give it a try.

 

[The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy]

Here's a Linux flavor that I am getting ready to try on
another desktop.

http://supergamer.org/
The Super Gamer is a Live DVD that was previously based on the core of PClinuxOS. Now it is
based on the core of VectorLinux, put together by Darin. Darin started out making the Super
Gamer for his own, and some friends' enjoyment.
Soon others got a copy and decided they liked it.
Some jumped onboard to help test and develop. Then releases were made which were geared up
towards requested hardware. The Super Gamer is optimized for a gaming computer environment,
with some tweaks to help speed up running from the LiveDVD. Extra games were added along with
some demos of proprietary games. All Games are Linux Native. Users wishing to run Windows
Native games, may install Wine or a Wine related application such as Cedega.

Wow, I need to check this out. Great info Michael, thanks!

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"They hacked the Microsoft website to make it think a linux box was a
windows box. Thats called hacking. People who do hacking are called
hackers."

"Only religious fanatics and totalitarian states equate morality with
legality."
- Linus Torvalds

 

[Charlie Tame]

Wow, I need to check this out. Great info Michael, thanks!

Hehe the website is not kidding, 2 days so far

 

[Paul Graham]

What's all this "Everyone is either sticking to XP, or moving to Linux or
Mac"?

And the "no one likes Vista"?

Where do some people get these mad statements from?

I moved to Vista and don't regret one second of doing so. I like Vista more
than XP.

Therefore, I guess I am not part of the "everyone". :-(

Paul


"Potential Windows Vista User"

 

[MICHAEL]

* MICHAEL:> I spent most of yesterday using PCLinuxOS, by the time I

was done, I realized I had forgotten all about Vista. For those
users who aren't addicted to Microsoft Office products (like me),
especially Outlook, or use other specialized software- there are
several Linux flavors that can do everything they need, and it's
only getting better. The ultimate ace-in-the-hole is the price.
Sooner or later, Microsoft's desktop monopoly will end.
Vista has done nothing to stop that, either.

In the above paragraph;

For those users who aren't addicted to Microsoft Office products (like me),
especially Outlook

That's meant to come across as saying, I am one of those users
who is addicted to Microsoft Office and Outlook, and a few
other apps that don't work in Linux.

Although, there are alternatives for Linux and Windows.
It may be a long time before I can break free from Outlook
and those few other programs.
Of course, there's always VMWare and running Windows in
a vm on PCLinuxOS.... that's my next project. I have a WinXP Pro
I am no longer using since installing Vista on that desktop.
I still have a copy of Office 2007 a lot of us got for free months ago
for participating in those lab-casts. I was going to give it to my nephew
since I'd already purchased my own, but my sister had Office put on
his new laptop. Anyway....

Oh, for Windows users, VPC 2007 is good- but, VMWare is so
much better. It' really not even close.


-Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

* The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy:

Wow, I need to check this out. Great info Michael, thanks!

You're welcome. Please, let me know what you think about it.

Oh, did you ever try (Longhorn) Windows Server 2008?


Take care,

Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

* Charlie Tame:

Hehe the website is not kidding, 2 days so far

Have you tried it, Charlie? Impressions?


-Michael