Endless lists of software. in a.c.f

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

You're not understanding me. Agent downloads the Subject header
and the From header for every post. Unless "download bodies" has
been checked, if the person wants to be able to filter on someone
in particular, they only need to look at all the messages and pick
*one* that is from that person, in this instance, "Tramp" and
download it. I know this because I do it sometimes myself.

In your post <you
claimed that Tramp's /headers/ would only needed to be downloaded one
time, and you subsequently repeated your erroneous claim. Thank you
for finally realizing that the the Subject and From headers must be
downloaded for each post, which is all I've been saying.

Therefore, only *one* full message needs to be downloaded in order
to create a filter. Now, if you insist on being a stubborn prick,
that's your problem, not mine. I don't tolerate idiots lightly.

Invective ... stinging me ... screen ... blurry from tears ... must go
now ... cannot type.

 

[tlshell]

You sure? My experience is that they kick off users who 'abuse' the
system.

And you don't think that's reasonable?

Quote from their 'terms of use':

<snip>

Looks very standardish to me. Basically you can't use the service
24x7, you have to go offline from time to time. I have an unlimited
account with Concentric (actually XO) and I have had times when I was
on for several hours at a time, but I was actually using the service,
not just "pinging" to stay online.

 

[SINNER]

(e-mail address removed) Wrote in alt.comp.freeware, on 01 Aug 2003 01:23:40 GMT:

[headers snipped]

The important ones are available in the XOVER and would be enough to
determine if you want the rest.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

[about the misunderstanding over "headers"]
In the post with which you initially disagreed, my exact words were
"a few of his headers will have to be downloaded, in particular the
From headers." Now I think you thought I meant something like "the
full headers of a few of his posts," whereas I actually meant "a few
of the headers of each one of his posts." Is that how this
misunderstanding started? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity - at
this point I don't care whether I'm to blame for being unclear or
you're to blame for not reading carefully (or both), and I'm not
trying to bait you into some answer I could attack.

I've added a couple of notes below, but other than that I'm done
with this thread. Even if you tell me I'm wrong about how it
started.

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

As you can see, "headers" are much more comprehensive than simply
"subject" and "sender". In fact, calling those two "the headers"
is a misnomer.

At no time did I call Subject and Sender "the headers." (In fact, I
never referred to Sender headers at all. Most posts, including
yours and mine, do not have Sender headers. The From header, which
is required and is in the XOVER overview, is a much better choice
for filtering.) I did refer once to Subject and From as "headers,"
which they are.

In any case, it seems that whatever misunderstanding there was has
been cleared up. If we ever have to talk about this again (and I'm
sure everyone reading is looking forward to /that/), I'll be sure to
use the phrases "a subset of the headers" and "the full headers."

 

[Terry]

And you don't think that's reasonable?

Freeserve's definition of 'abuse' in this context has changed
repeatedly since the service was launched. As has that of BTi. Another
poster has said that BTi's definition of 'Anytime' is currently 150
hours per month. I am not sure what Freeserve's current definition is.
They amuse themselves by employing the ambiguity inherent in the word
'anytime'.

<snip>

Looks very standardish to me. Basically you can't use the service
24x7, you have to go offline from time to time. I have an unlimited
account with Concentric (actually XO) and I have had times when I was
on for several hours at a time, but I was actually using the service,
not just "pinging" to stay online.

My point was simply to correct half cut's inaccuracy, not to dance
about on the head of a pin discussing the finer meanings of 'anytime'.
This discussion used to go on and on in the internet provider groups,
interspersed with light users attacking heavy users. I am a heavy
user; AOL facilitates this, FS and BTi do not. Which brings us back to
my entry point in this thread of AOL being the best UK dial up. The
fact that I find it to be the most reliable connection by far of the
UK ISP's (and I have had accounts with all of the competitive ones)
could, of course, be down to location.

 

[tlshell]

[about the misunderstanding over "headers"]
In the post with which you initially disagreed, my exact words were
"a few of his headers will have to be downloaded, in particular the
From headers." Now I think you thought I meant something like "the
full headers of a few of his posts," whereas I actually meant "a few
of the headers of each one of his posts." Is that how this
misunderstanding started? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity - at
this point I don't care whether I'm to blame for being unclear or
you're to blame for not reading carefully (or both), and I'm not
trying to bait you into some answer I could attack.

Could be. Agent doesn't download "some" headers. It either downloads
the subject/from headers only, or it downloads everything.

I've added a couple of notes below, but other than that I'm done
with this thread. Even if you tell me I'm wrong about how it
started.

(e-mail address removed) wrote in


At no time did I call Subject and Sender "the headers." (In fact, I
never referred to Sender headers at all. Most posts, including
yours and mine, do not have Sender headers. The From header, which
is required and is in the XOVER overview, is a much better choice
for filtering.) I did refer once to Subject and From as "headers,"
which they are.

Sorry, I didn't look. I should have said Subject and Author.

In any case, it seems that whatever misunderstanding there was has
been cleared up. If we ever have to talk about this again (and I'm
sure everyone reading is looking forward to /that/), I'll be sure to
use the phrases "a subset of the headers" and "the full headers."

Ha, yeah, that would be better.

 

[Terry]

I think I've got a few AOL cd's lying around here
somewhere if you want them...

You are too kind...

 

[Exeter]

In alt.comp.freeware on Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:06 +1000 John

Most ISPs download these posts from their own server to users. A very
short hop and therefore very quick. As compared to web access.

I set up an account with the company that *supplies* the feed to my
ISP. The end result is an even faster feed and more frequent updates.
Although I still find it nice to have several feeds.
--

 

[Exeter]

In alt.comp.freeware on Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:05:43 +0200 Roger

I, and others, think it would be a good idea to publish
recommendations and descriptions of really good freeware programs in
the newsgroup. And links to lists of unknown programs which those who
have time and can afford it may want to explore.

So maybe what you and others want to do is start the group
alt.comp.freeware.tried.tested

--

 

[Exeter]

In alt.comp.freeware on Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:30:42 +0200 Roger

The other example could be if I dig up a thousand links to swedish
freeware programs which I know little about. Some may be in english,
other only in swedish, some may be real freeware, other may be
timelimited or crippled versions, some may be very valuable and some
may be useless.

Would you like me to post a thousand messages with links to these
programs in a.c.f, or ten very long messages with links to these
programs,

Do what you like. It would be nice in a way to see listings (in any
form) of programs in other than english. Of course if I find that
enough of your posts are of no value I will simply set up a kill file
entry.


--

 

[Exeter]

In alt.comp.freeware on Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:01:10 +0200 Roger

I only download programs once or twice a week, and only after I have
seen descriptions and recommendations from people who really know the
program.

So try alt.comp.freeware.discuss
--

 

[Steve H]

Freeserve's definition of 'abuse' in this context has changed
repeatedly since the service was launched. As has that of BTi. Another
poster has said that BTi's definition of 'Anytime' is currently 150
hours per month. I am not sure what Freeserve's current definition is.
They amuse themselves by employing the ambiguity inherent in the word
'anytime'.

Yep, far from reasonable. The T&Cs are so vague as to be able to mean
anything that suits the ISP at a given time - people tend to throw
their hands up at similar T&Cs when it comes to software or privacy
rights.

Not only that, but these services were sold as being one thing and
then, when the ISP found that people took them at their word,
hurriedly changed. In BTi's case, by first shifting the heavy users to
a poorer contention ratio, and then by limiting the hours per month
the user was entitled to.

At least some 'anytime' providers have the decency to clearly state
that there's a limit ( and price accordingly ) - others prefer to hide
it deep within the T&Cs, and still other make no mention of it at all
- and cover their arses with a 'reasonable use' and abuse clause.

Regards,

 

[POKO]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

My point was
snip
Which brings us back to
my entry point in this thread of AOL being the best UK dial up. The
fact that I find it to be the most reliable connection by far of the
UK ISP's (and I have had accounts with all of the competitive ones)
could, of course, be down to location.

Point well taken Terry. I think I've got a few AOL cd's lying around here
somewhere if you want them...
Best,
POKO
--
POKO SAID THAT ...........
reply to (e-mail address removed) don't use VIAGARA
Pat Keenan - Webmaster, Keenan Consulting
http://www.keenanconsulting.on.ca
silly portal: www.keenanconsulting.on.ca/portal.html

 

[POKO]

This is for Pat, but I thought you might get a kick out of it, too:

http://www.usedaoldisks.com/aoldisks/index.htm

Never to be outdone when humour and humor is at stake:
http://www.keenanconsulting.on.ca/trampfreewarefinds.html#AOL
--
POKO SAID THAT ...........
reply to (e-mail address removed) don't use VIAGARA
Pat Keenan - Webmaster, Keenan Consulting
http://www.keenanconsulting.on.ca
silly portal: www.keenanconsulting.on.ca/portal.html

 

[Vic Dura]

Could be. Agent doesn't download "some" headers. It either downloads
the subject/from headers only, or it downloads everything.

By "everything" do you mean all the fields in the header?

 

[Exeter]

In alt.comp.freeware on Sat, 02 Aug 2003 12:09:02 +1000 John

Faster updates I can understand BUT how is ;

You > ISP >Originating server

faster than

You > ISP ?

My ISP server is not very responsive. The connection to the feed
server is not Me>ISP>Feed unless you want to say that every connection
goes through the ISP. The connection is Feed>My IP address. Since
the ISP feed to me is throttled and the Main Feed will support
whatever I can take the overall through put is faster. Granted the
initial log on connection to the Main Feed takes a second or so more.

We could discuss the why it should or should not work out that way but
I have a better way to describe the situation. When getting a full
days subscribed download from my ISP it takes about five minutes. A
full download from the Main Feed takes about two minutes.

--

 

[John Fitzsimons]

In alt.comp.freeware on Sat, 02 Aug 2003 12:09:02 +1000 John

My ISP server is not very responsive. The connection to the feed
server is not Me>ISP>Feed unless you want to say that every connection
goes through the ISP.

Yes, that was part of my point. Going to anywhere on the net has to be
via your ISP.

The connection is Feed>My IP address. Since
the ISP feed to me is throttled

Presumably you mean "news" feed from your ISP ? If everything was
throttled then getting everything, from anywhere on the net, would be
slowed down.

and the Main Feed will support
whatever I can take the overall through put is faster. Granted the
initial log on connection to the Main Feed takes a second or so more.

We could discuss the why it should or should not work out that way but
I have a better way to describe the situation. When getting a full
days subscribed download from my ISP it takes about five minutes. A
full download from the Main Feed takes about two minutes.

Okay, so if I understand you correctly your ISPs news server serves
things to you much slower than it should do. By bypassing your ISPs
news server altogether things go faster ?

If that is correct then that is a situation that would never have
occurred to me. Thanks for the explanation.

Regards, John.

 

[tlshell]

By "everything" do you mean all the fields in the header?

Yes, all the fields, all the headers.