Don't trust xxcopy!!

[elaich]

I have used xxcopy for some time now to clone my OS in case of a problem.
Until this week, I never had any trouble with it.

Before doing some hard drive maintenance, I cloned the Win98 install that
this computer came with, which also had MS Office installed. I wanted to
preserve that, since I don't have the installation disks.

When I restored the Win98 to the newly formatted partition, it would not
boot. After some digging, I found that xxcopy had failed to copy dozens of
OS files, including many in C:\Windows, Windows\Command, and
Windows\System.

I didn't check it because I trusted it. I won't ever again.

 

[My Name]

I have used xxcopy for some time now to clone my OS in case
of a problem. Until this week, I never had any trouble with
it.

Before doing some hard drive maintenance, I cloned the
Win98 install that this computer came with, which also had
MS Office installed. I wanted to preserve that, since I
don't have the installation disks.

When I restored the Win98 to the newly formatted partition,
it would not boot. After some digging, I found that xxcopy
had failed to copy dozens of OS files, including many in
C:\Windows, Windows\Command, and Windows\System.

I didn't check it because I trusted it. I won't ever again.

I just used "Release Version 2.85.9 (2005-01-28)" named:
"xxtb2859.zip" mere days ago to clone & boot 98 from pri to sec
HD & burn DVD back-up. No problems so far.

 

[Art]

I have used xxcopy for some time now to clone my OS in case of a problem.

Me too.

Until this week, I never had any trouble with it.

Before doing some hard drive maintenance, I cloned the Win98 install that
this computer came with, which also had MS Office installed. I wanted to
preserve that, since I don't have the installation disks.

When I restored the Win98 to the newly formatted partition, it would not
boot. After some digging, I found that xxcopy had failed to copy dozens of
OS files, including many in C:\Windows, Windows\Command, and
Windows\System.

I didn't check it because I trusted it. I won't ever again.

That's _really_ odd. I always put a check in my backup batch for
just this sort of thing. I use the excellent freeware util by Charles
Dye called LOCATE.COM. It is set to do a summary report on
both the source and destination drives after cloning. The total
# of bytes, files and folders on the drives must agree exactly, and
they always have. But in order to achieve that, the /clone/yy is
done twice (redundantly) since sometimes the first cloning isn't
"perfect".

I'll post the simple batch and a url for LOCATE.COM if anyone
is interested. I might mention that because I require this identical
# of bytes check, I copy the swap file. There can be no
excluded files at all.

And I'm sure you know that no apps can be running during
backup.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[elaich]

I'll post the simple batch and a url for LOCATE.COM if anyone
is interested.

Please do. The title is far too generic to find the URL on Google.

 

[Vic Dura]

I'll post the simple batch and a url for LOCATE.COM if anyone
is interested.

Yes, please do.

 

[harsha godavari]

Me too.


That's _really_ odd. I always put a check in my backup batch for
just this sort of thing. I use the excellent freeware util by Charles
Dye called LOCATE.COM. It is set to do a summary report on
both the source and destination drives after cloning. The total
# of bytes, files and folders on the drives must agree exactly, and
they always have. But in order to achieve that, the /clone/yy is
done twice (redundantly) since sometimes the first cloning isn't
"perfect".

I'll post the simple batch and a url for LOCATE.COM if anyone
is interested. I might mention that because I require this identical
# of bytes check, I copy the swap file. There can be no
excluded files at all.

And I'm sure you know that no apps can be running during
backup.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

Please do. I am interested in both Locate and your batch files. If
nobody else wants it,would it be okay with you to mail them to me as
attachments. Thanks.

Regards
hg.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Please do. The title is far too generic to find the URL on Google.

Google the ACF directory. See:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/

I know I keep saying that. . .
with good reason. . .
that usually works better.

Program: Locate
Author: Charles Dye
Install: CLI
Ware: (Freeware)
http://www.highfiber.com/~raster/freeware.htm

http://www.highfiber.com/~raster/locate.zip

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://google.ca/advanced_group_search?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)

 

[Art]

Please do. The title is far too generic to find the URL on Google.

Ok. Here's the author's web site:

http://www.highfiber.com/~raster/freeware.htm

You want the latest version of LOCATE copied to
the same folder as the batch and xcccopy.

Here's the batch for the case where sCource is C: and
Destination is D:

@echo off
cls
xxcopy c:\ d:\ /clone/yy
echo --------------- Start second copy --------------
xxcopy c:\ d:\ /clone/yy
echo -------- Summary after two passes --------
locate c:\*.* /S
locate d:\*.* /S
echo ---------- Finished! -------------------------------


Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Art]

Please do. I am interested in both Locate and your batch files. If
nobody else wants it,would it be okay with you to mail them to me as
attachments. Thanks.

I just posted the info. Let me know if you (or anyone) have any
questions.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[John Corliss]

I have used xxcopy for some time now to clone my OS in case of a problem.
Until this week, I never had any trouble with it.

Before doing some hard drive maintenance, I cloned the Win98 install that
this computer came with, which also had MS Office installed. I wanted to
preserve that, since I don't have the installation disks.

When I restored the Win98 to the newly formatted partition, it would not
boot. After some digging, I found that xxcopy had failed to copy dozens of
OS files, including many in C:\Windows, Windows\Command, and
Windows\System.

I didn't check it because I trusted it. I won't ever again.

What command line did you use? Eg. I use this one:

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE c:\ d:\ /clone /YY /xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
/xC:\_RESTORE\*\ /Foc:\_2\xxcopy.log

(line wraps)

because I'm using Millennium Edition.

 

[harsha godavari]

Google the ACF directory. See:

http://www.pricelesswarehome.org/

I know I keep saying that. . .
with good reason. . .
that usually works better.

Program: Locate
Author: Charles Dye
Install: CLI
Ware: (Freeware)
http://www.highfiber.com/~raster/freeware.htm

http://www.highfiber.com/~raster/locate.zip

Susan
--

Thank you Susan.

Regards
hg.

 

[harsha godavari]

Ok. Here's the author's web site:

http://www.highfiber.com/~raster/freeware.htm

You want the latest version of LOCATE copied to
the same folder as the batch and xcccopy.

Here's the batch for the case where sCource is C: and
Destination is D:

@echo off
cls
xxcopy c:\ d:\ /clone/yy
echo --------------- Start second copy --------------
xxcopy c:\ d:\ /clone/yy
echo -------- Summary after two passes --------
locate c:\*.* /S
locate d:\*.* /S
echo ---------- Finished! -------------------------------

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

Thank you Art. That rounds it off nicely.

Regards
hg.

 

[Art]

C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\XXCOPY.EXE c:\ d:\ /clone /YY /xC:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
/xC:\_RESTORE\*\ /Foc:\_2\xxcopy.log

(line wraps)

because I'm using Millennium Edition.

Hi John. I use the same batch without exclusions on both my Win ME
amd '98SE machines. I've disabled system restore on the ME machine.

BTW, in a different thread the other day, I mentioned that Odi's LCOPY
does a good job of Restoring in plain DOS. As long as we're on the
backup/restore topic, LCOPY can be downloaded here:

http://lfntools.sourceforge.net/

The steps I use for restoring Windows in plain DOS are:

1. DELTREE /Y C:\WINDOWS
2. MD C:\WINDOWS
3. LCOPY D:\WINDOWS C:\WINDOWS /R/S/A

This is best done with smartdrv loaded as smartdrv 16384

Odi's LCOPY preserves LFNs and attributes, and it checks
out fine.

I prefer this method to Yan's suggested method which is:

1. In Windows, xxcopy d:\windows c:\wintemp /clone/yy
2. In plain DOS, REN \WINDOWS WINOLD
REN \WINTEMP WINDOWS
3. Reboot to Windows and DELTREE /Y WINOLD
4. Do a defrag to clean up the mess

It's item 4 that takes time and I don't like. The LCOPY method
is much quicker overall.

Art



http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Mark Carter]

When I restored the Win98 to the newly formatted partition, it would not
boot. After some digging, I found that xxcopy had failed to copy dozens of
OS files, including many in C:\Windows, Windows\Command, and
Windows\System.

I didn't check it because I trusted it. I won't ever again.

This problem is not unique to xxcopy. The vast majority of freeware
programs will have problems backing up some system files. The problem
occurs because some of the system files are in use by the system, and
the program can't get a lock on it to make a copy.

To my mind, this isn't really a problem anyway, because system files are
such a vexed issue that I never attempt to recover them in the event of
a catastrophe. Think of it as God's way of saying that it was time to
tidy up your hard drive anyway.

The only things that I attempt to recover after a disaster are personal
data files, and my Firefox bookmarks. If I think I'm going to do
something that's especially dangerous (such as installing Linux), then I
might use MozBackup to backup the bits floating around Thunderbird.

There are morals here: keep your installation disks. Keep your
registration codes on a piece of paper. Also, keep stuff like ISP
information in written form. Don't let emails accumulate in your mail
reader. If they're important, save them to a personal folder, then
delete them from your reader. Then back up your personal folder
regularly. I know that this information is too late for you, but maybe
others will benefit from these words.

BTW, here's the command line I use to backup my hard drive:
xxcopy /clone /PZ0 /FF c:\ m:\snapshot

 

[John Corliss]

Hi John. I use the same batch without exclusions on both my Win ME
amd '98SE machines. I've disabled system restore on the ME machine.

BTW, in a different thread the other day, I mentioned that Odi's LCOPY
does a good job of Restoring in plain DOS. As long as we're on the
backup/restore topic, LCOPY can be downloaded here:

http://lfntools.sourceforge.net/

The steps I use for restoring Windows in plain DOS are:

1. DELTREE /Y C:\WINDOWS
2. MD C:\WINDOWS
3. LCOPY D:\WINDOWS C:\WINDOWS /R/S/A

This is best done with smartdrv loaded as smartdrv 16384

Odi's LCOPY preserves LFNs and attributes, and it checks
out fine.

I prefer this method to Yan's suggested method which is:

1. In Windows, xxcopy d:\windows c:\wintemp /clone/yy
2. In plain DOS, REN \WINDOWS WINOLD
REN \WINTEMP WINDOWS
3. Reboot to Windows and DELTREE /Y WINOLD
4. Do a defrag to clean up the mess

It's item 4 that takes time and I don't like. The LCOPY method
is much quicker overall.

Thanks Art! I'll save your message in my "Tips and Manuals" folder and
download LCOPY.

By the way, I should mention two things though:

1. I had to replace my main hard drive about a month and a half ago.
Used XXCopy (did one clone run, not twice like is being recommended in
this thread) to copy my backup drive onto my new main (master) drive.
Did this with the main drive temporarily attached as my slave, backup
(slave) temporarily attached as my master drive. Worked flawlessly.

2. Given the nature of XXCopy's periodic nag screen, this is probably
going to piss off Kan Yabumoto, but I'm using an older copy of XXCopy
(2.82.9.0). Don't fix it if it ain't broke, I say.

 

[elaich]

This problem is not unique to xxcopy. The vast majority of freeware
programs will have problems backing up some system files. The problem
occurs because some of the system files are in use by the system, and
the program can't get a lock on it to make a copy.

Because of this, I've always wondered why there isn't a DOS version of
xxcopy. Then, you could start DOS from a bootdisk, and clone your Windows
system without having any of it running.

 

[Howard Schwartz]

Because of this, I've always wondered why there isn't a DOS version of
xxcopy. Then, you could start DOS from a bootdisk, and clone your
Windows system without having any of it running.

The gnuish program, cp.exe, will copy anything in sight: directories,
subdirectories, hidden and system files, etc. It is a dos port of
the familiar Unix copy command, and it can be run in protected mode
using cwsdpmi.exe and will preserve long filenames, if provided with
the API by a program like lfndos.

I think that makes cp.exe a dos version of xxcopy that runs in plain
dos, can clone drives and preserves long filenames, yes?

 

[Mel]

Because of this, I've always wondered why there isn't a DOS version of
xxcopy. Then, you could start DOS from a bootdisk, and clone your Windows
system without having any of it running.

Their is, but this explains why you shouldn't use it:

http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy10.htm

Additional Info Here:

http://www.williamaford.com/CloningaHDD.php

 

[null]

Because of this, I've always wondered why there isn't a DOS version of
xxcopy. Then, you could start DOS from a bootdisk, and clone your Windows
system without having any of it running.

It would certainly be possible to design a plain DOS cloner that
handles LFNs and long paths correctly. I dunno why Kan never
dieveloped such a animal. Odi's LCOPY demonstrates what can
be done when you design "underneath" the DOS file system
limitations using low level interrupts. It's dangerous, and it
requires extensive testing, but it can be done. So far as I know,
LCOPY has passed the extensive testing phase and is a
"respected" tool.

However, it isn't a "cloner", as such. It doesn't delete files and
folders from the destination that aren't on the source. It is
therefore useful for backup and not cloning. Now, you could
clone a empty drive with it in plain DOS if you wanted to, and
do backups with it in plain DOS, as well as restores.

I find it easier and much quicker to use XXCOPY in Windows
for routine (clone type) backups. As I've said, adding the
redundant copy has always resulted in a perfect clone on
both my Win ME and '98SE machines.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[jmatt]

elaich

I didn't check it because I trusted it. I won't ever again.

One final step elaich

Below applies if you want to make the new hard drive your main drive
( usually C )
http://members.tripod.com/~diligent/harddisk.htm
Use the startup/boot disk to boot the computer and when you are at
the A:\ prompt type sys c: and press Enter. The required boot
information will be copied to the new disk and you have a working
copy of the old hard disk .
If the partition is not active , use fdisk , option 2 .

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q187641

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