Better.... much better.

[Gary VanderMolen]

None of those are required to run WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

Hotmail, Messenger, Calendar, etc. Those are Microsoft online services.

How so? I'm not aware of that requirement.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

Except for having a Windows Live ID. Usually by having an @msn.com or
@hotmail.com or @live.com e-mail address.

BT

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


I have a second question regarding WLM. What do you think about the
following opinion of WLM quoted from another newsgroup?

"It's a trick to get you to use Microsoft's online services. Don't buy
into it. If you do, you're only furthering their goal of getting
everybody to use thin clients and to pay fees for online programs
instead of having them installed on your computer."



Daze N. Knights wrote:
Hi, Michael:

Thanks for your latest impressions regarding WLM. Although I use
Thunderbird for both e-mail and newsgroups, and expect to continue
doing so since I'm perfectly happy with my own current setup, I would
nevertheless be interested in trying out WLM to see what I think of
it. Are there any complications involved in downloading and installing
WLM that I should be aware of? It doesn't, for instance, automatically
take over as the default e-mail client or newsreader, does it?

Daze

MICHAEL wrote:
I've been a rather vocal critic of WLM and more so
with Vista's Windows Mail. I still would not recommend
WM, but WLM has made some definite improvements.

Since I typically use Outlook for email, my biggest use
for WLM is newsgroups. The overall performance has
improved dramatically. Thank you. I've been using
Thunderbird, but I may switch back to WLM.

Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?


-Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

Oh, did you get the email about the Install Fair
for Service Pack 1? It's being held in your neck
of the woods, again. The last one, you went and got my
free copy of Vista, and forgot to mail it to me. ;-)

They are giving away Office 2007 this time. I think you
also participated in that online webcast where Office and Vista
were handed out, so you may not need it. Go anyway and mail
that copy to me. Just kidding... I also participated in that
online program... gave that copy of Office 2007 to my nephew.
Bought a couple more licenses... so, I'm good.

I reckon if you don't want to go- I'll take a short vacation,
fly out there, stay at your place and go to the Install Fair.

I emailed you, but it bounced back.

Here's some info:

Date: December 8th and 9th, 2007 from 9:00AM to 4:00PM

Location: Microsoft Silicon Valley Campus / 1065 La Avenida St. Mountain View, CA 94043

Timeslots:
Desktops: 9:00am or 1:00pm
Laptops: 9:00am or 1:00pm

What is Windows Vista SP1? Windows Vista SP1 is an update to Windows Vista that addresses
feedback from our customers. In addition to previously released updates, SP1 will contain
changes focused on addressing specific reliability and performance issues, supporting new types
of hardware, and adding support for several emerging standards. SP1 also addresses some
management, deployment, and support challenges.

The goals of the Install Fair are to:

1. Upgrade your system that is already running Windows Vista with unfamiliar applications,
configurations and devices to pre-release version of Windows Vista SP1.

2. Acquire valuable feedback about the Windows Vista SP1 Windows Update and Standalone install
experience from the broader community.

3. Send attendees away with a usable Windows Vista SP1 Operating System.

As a thank you for your participation, you will receive a copy of Microsoft Office 2007 and a
special gift.



-Michael

 

[Daze N. Knights]

Michael:

Yes, I got the e-mail, and may go ahead and sign up, although I don't
really expect to go this time. The inducements just aren't enough to
outweigh the time and energy required in prepping my desktop system and
hauling it to Mountain View. It was worth it for Vista Ultimate, but as
you noted, I have my Office 2007 already, and last time the "special
gift" was just a hat. If they had offered a free copy of Vista Ultimate
w/Service Pack 1 when it comes out, it would've been much more enticing.

Daze

 

[Daze N. Knights]

Oh, and BTW: If you were to come out this way, I should point out that
you would NOT want to stay at my place, as not even *I* want to stay at
my place and am only doing so due to my current lack of any better
options . . . ;-)

 

[MICHAEL]

Sounds like it would be an adventure, David.

Well, if you ever come to the East coast and through
Charlotte, give me a holler.

There's nothing stopping you from going to the
Install Fair, getting a copy of Office 2007 and then
selling it. Office 2007 isn't cheap.


-Michael

 

[MICHAEL]

Sounds like it would be an adventure, David.

Well, if you ever come to the East coast and through
Charlotte, give me a holler.

There's nothing stopping you from going to the
Install Fair, getting a copy of Office 2007 and then
selling it. Or, it would make a cool gift for someone.
Christmas is right around the corner.


-Michael

 

[Buford T. Justice]

Ah I see. Yeah I don’t think there is anything like that in WLM as you
already know other than clicking VIEW > CURRENT VIEW.

BT

See attached pic from Windows Mail.


-Michael

Sounded like it to me, lol.

Right. But, that's not what Gary or I are talking about.


-Michael

Assuming you have turned on SHOW ALL MENUS, you simply click VIEW >
CURRENT VIEW to do
this.

BT

I agree with "Show All Messages"/"Hide Read Messages."
Maybe, the development team will come around to add
this. I can't believe there's not some heavy newsgroup readers
on the development team that agree with us.

I do like like the "Quick Views". I have "Unread watched news"
there and find that feature to be useful.

I just couldn't stand the horribly slow performance
of Windows Mail, and it wasn't just on one machine.

Hopefully, WLM will continue to improve even more.


-Michael

I use WM for newsgroups, WLM for mail. I make extensive use of
WM's feature that enables rapid switching between "Show All Messages"
and "Hide Read Messages." It is a shame that WLM didn't adopt that
handy feature.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


IMO, compared to what it was and most definitely
when compared to WM, WLM has improved greatly.

Since I only use WLM for newsgroups, I may not be seeing
the same bugs you are experiencing. -Michael

I have found several bugs in this program...

it was not ready to go out of beta...

and the interface is still bad


Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?

Okay, I found how to get rid of the header.

The setting is under "Layout". I still wish it was
collapseable/expandable. Oh well, I am still pleased
with how well WLM seems to be working.


-Michael

 

[Buford T. Justice]

True, but that is not what you said. You said you knew of no requirements
to use Microsoft online services in which case I corrected you.

BT

None of those are required to run WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

Hotmail, Messenger, Calendar, etc. Those are Microsoft online services.

How so? I'm not aware of that requirement.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Except for having a Windows Live ID. Usually by having an @msn.com or
@hotmail.com or @live.com e-mail address.

BT

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


I have a second question regarding WLM. What do you think about the
following opinion of WLM quoted from another newsgroup?

"It's a trick to get you to use Microsoft's online services. Don't
buy into it. If you do, you're only furthering their goal of getting
everybody to use thin clients and to pay fees for online programs
instead of having them installed on your computer."



Daze N. Knights wrote:
Hi, Michael:

Thanks for your latest impressions regarding WLM. Although I use
Thunderbird for both e-mail and newsgroups, and expect to continue
doing so since I'm perfectly happy with my own current setup, I
would nevertheless be interested in trying out WLM to see what I
think of it. Are there any complications involved in downloading and
installing WLM that I should be aware of? It doesn't, for instance,
automatically take over as the default e-mail client or newsreader,
does it?

Daze

MICHAEL wrote:
I've been a rather vocal critic of WLM and more so
with Vista's Windows Mail. I still would not recommend
WM, but WLM has made some definite improvements.

Since I typically use Outlook for email, my biggest use
for WLM is newsgroups. The overall performance has
improved dramatically. Thank you. I've been using
Thunderbird, but I may switch back to WLM.

Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?


-Michael

 

[Ron Sommer]

To use WLM, you are not required to use any Microsoft online services.
That is different from what you just posted.
We are not talking about the requirements to use Microsoft online services.
A requirement to use Microsoft online services is to be registered.

I can check my pop3 email accounts with WLM and not use Hotmail, Messenger,
Calendar, etc.
I am not signed up to use any of those services and if I was signed up, I
won't have to be signed in to check my pop3 accounts.
--
Ronald Sommer

True, but that is not what you said. You said you knew of no requirements
to use Microsoft online services in which case I corrected you.

BT

None of those are required to run WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

Hotmail, Messenger, Calendar, etc. Those are Microsoft online services.

How so? I'm not aware of that requirement.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Except for having a Windows Live ID. Usually by having an @msn.com or
@hotmail.com or @live.com e-mail address.

BT

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


I have a second question regarding WLM. What do you think about the
following opinion of WLM quoted from another newsgroup?

"It's a trick to get you to use Microsoft's online services. Don't
buy into it. If you do, you're only furthering their goal of getting
everybody to use thin clients and to pay fees for online programs
instead of having them installed on your computer."



Daze N. Knights wrote:
Hi, Michael:

Thanks for your latest impressions regarding WLM. Although I use
Thunderbird for both e-mail and newsgroups, and expect to continue
doing so since I'm perfectly happy with my own current setup, I
would nevertheless be interested in trying out WLM to see what I
think of it. Are there any complications involved in downloading
and installing WLM that I should be aware of? It doesn't, for
instance, automatically take over as the default e-mail client or
newsreader, does it?

Daze

MICHAEL wrote:
I've been a rather vocal critic of WLM and more so
with Vista's Windows Mail. I still would not recommend
WM, but WLM has made some definite improvements.

Since I typically use Outlook for email, my biggest use
for WLM is newsgroups. The overall performance has
improved dramatically. Thank you. I've been using
Thunderbird, but I may switch back to WLM.

Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?


-Michael

 

[Buford T. Justice]

I wasn't talking about WLM. I was talking about Microsoft online services.

BT

To use WLM, you are not required to use any Microsoft online services.
That is different from what you just posted.
We are not talking about the requirements to use Microsoft online
services.
A requirement to use Microsoft online services is to be registered.

I can check my pop3 email accounts with WLM and not use Hotmail,
Messenger, Calendar, etc.
I am not signed up to use any of those services and if I was signed up, I
won't have to be signed in to check my pop3 accounts.
--
Ronald Sommer

True, but that is not what you said. You said you knew of no
requirements to use Microsoft online services in which case I corrected
you.

BT

None of those are required to run WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Hotmail, Messenger, Calendar, etc. Those are Microsoft online
services.

How so? I'm not aware of that requirement.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Except for having a Windows Live ID. Usually by having an @msn.com
or @hotmail.com or @live.com e-mail address.

BT

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


I have a second question regarding WLM. What do you think about the
following opinion of WLM quoted from another newsgroup?

"It's a trick to get you to use Microsoft's online services. Don't
buy into it. If you do, you're only furthering their goal of
getting everybody to use thin clients and to pay fees for online
programs instead of having them installed on your computer."



Daze N. Knights wrote:
Hi, Michael:

Thanks for your latest impressions regarding WLM. Although I use
Thunderbird for both e-mail and newsgroups, and expect to continue
doing so since I'm perfectly happy with my own current setup, I
would nevertheless be interested in trying out WLM to see what I
think of it. Are there any complications involved in downloading
and installing WLM that I should be aware of? It doesn't, for
instance, automatically take over as the default e-mail client or
newsreader, does it?

Daze

MICHAEL wrote:
I've been a rather vocal critic of WLM and more so
with Vista's Windows Mail. I still would not recommend
WM, but WLM has made some definite improvements.

Since I typically use Outlook for email, my biggest use
for WLM is newsgroups. The overall performance has
improved dramatically. Thank you. I've been using
Thunderbird, but I may switch back to WLM.

Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?


-Michael

 

[Dave]

Yes you were... The whole thread was about WLM.

I wasn't talking about WLM. I was talking about Microsoft online
services.

BT

To use WLM, you are not required to use any Microsoft online services.
That is different from what you just posted.
We are not talking about the requirements to use Microsoft online
services.
A requirement to use Microsoft online services is to be registered.

I can check my pop3 email accounts with WLM and not use Hotmail,
Messenger, Calendar, etc.
I am not signed up to use any of those services and if I was signed up, I
won't have to be signed in to check my pop3 accounts.
--
Ronald Sommer

True, but that is not what you said. You said you knew of no
requirements to use Microsoft online services in which case I corrected
you.

BT

None of those are required to run WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Hotmail, Messenger, Calendar, etc. Those are Microsoft online
services.

How so? I'm not aware of that requirement.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Except for having a Windows Live ID. Usually by having an @msn.com
or @hotmail.com or @live.com e-mail address.

BT

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


I have a second question regarding WLM. What do you think about the
following opinion of WLM quoted from another newsgroup?

"It's a trick to get you to use Microsoft's online services. Don't
buy into it. If you do, you're only furthering their goal of
getting everybody to use thin clients and to pay fees for online
programs instead of having them installed on your computer."



Daze N. Knights wrote:
Hi, Michael:

Thanks for your latest impressions regarding WLM. Although I use
Thunderbird for both e-mail and newsgroups, and expect to
continue doing so since I'm perfectly happy with my own current
setup, I would nevertheless be interested in trying out WLM to
see what I think of it. Are there any complications involved in
downloading and installing WLM that I should be aware of? It
doesn't, for instance, automatically take over as the default
e-mail client or newsreader, does it?

Daze

MICHAEL wrote:
I've been a rather vocal critic of WLM and more so
with Vista's Windows Mail. I still would not recommend
WM, but WLM has made some definite improvements.

Since I typically use Outlook for email, my biggest use
for WLM is newsgroups. The overall performance has
improved dramatically. Thank you. I've been using
Thunderbird, but I may switch back to WLM.

Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?


-Michael

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

In reference to using WLM I said "There is no requirement
to try or use any of Microsoft's online services."
I stand by my statement. You haven't proved otherwise.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

True, but that is not what you said. You said you knew of no requirements
to use Microsoft online services in which case I corrected you.

BT

None of those are required to run WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

Hotmail, Messenger, Calendar, etc. Those are Microsoft online services.

How so? I'm not aware of that requirement.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Except for having a Windows Live ID. Usually by having an @msn.com or
@hotmail.com or @live.com e-mail address.

BT

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


I have a second question regarding WLM. What do you think about the
following opinion of WLM quoted from another newsgroup?

"It's a trick to get you to use Microsoft's online services. Don't
buy into it. If you do, you're only furthering their goal of getting
everybody to use thin clients and to pay fees for online programs
instead of having them installed on your computer."



Daze N. Knights wrote:
Hi, Michael:

Thanks for your latest impressions regarding WLM. Although I use
Thunderbird for both e-mail and newsgroups, and expect to continue
doing so since I'm perfectly happy with my own current setup, I
would nevertheless be interested in trying out WLM to see what I
think of it. Are there any complications involved in downloading and
installing WLM that I should be aware of? It doesn't, for instance,
automatically take over as the default e-mail client or newsreader,
does it?

Daze

MICHAEL wrote:
I've been a rather vocal critic of WLM and more so
with Vista's Windows Mail. I still would not recommend
WM, but WLM has made some definite improvements.

Since I typically use Outlook for email, my biggest use
for WLM is newsgroups. The overall performance has
improved dramatically. Thank you. I've been using
Thunderbird, but I may switch back to WLM.

Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?


-Michael

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

Exactly.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

Yes you were... The whole thread was about WLM.

I wasn't talking about WLM. I was talking about Microsoft online
services.

BT

To use WLM, you are not required to use any Microsoft online services.
That is different from what you just posted.
We are not talking about the requirements to use Microsoft online
services.
A requirement to use Microsoft online services is to be registered.

I can check my pop3 email accounts with WLM and not use Hotmail,
Messenger, Calendar, etc.
I am not signed up to use any of those services and if I was signed up, I
won't have to be signed in to check my pop3 accounts.
--
Ronald Sommer

True, but that is not what you said. You said you knew of no
requirements to use Microsoft online services in which case I corrected
you.

BT

None of those are required to run WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Hotmail, Messenger, Calendar, etc. Those are Microsoft online
services.

How so? I'm not aware of that requirement.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


Except for having a Windows Live ID. Usually by having an @msn.com
or @hotmail.com or @live.com e-mail address.

BT

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


I have a second question regarding WLM. What do you think about the
following opinion of WLM quoted from another newsgroup?

"It's a trick to get you to use Microsoft's online services. Don't
buy into it. If you do, you're only furthering their goal of
getting everybody to use thin clients and to pay fees for online
programs instead of having them installed on your computer."



Daze N. Knights wrote:
Hi, Michael:

Thanks for your latest impressions regarding WLM. Although I use
Thunderbird for both e-mail and newsgroups, and expect to
continue doing so since I'm perfectly happy with my own current
setup, I would nevertheless be interested in trying out WLM to
see what I think of it. Are there any complications involved in
downloading and installing WLM that I should be aware of? It
doesn't, for instance, automatically take over as the default
e-mail client or newsreader, does it?

Daze

MICHAEL wrote:
I've been a rather vocal critic of WLM and more so
with Vista's Windows Mail. I still would not recommend
WM, but WLM has made some definite improvements.

Since I typically use Outlook for email, my biggest use
for WLM is newsgroups. The overall performance has
improved dramatically. Thank you. I've been using
Thunderbird, but I may switch back to WLM.

Just one thing, for now, I sure do wish there was an easy
way to collapse the header bar like in Thunderbird... that's
a big chunk of screen space taken up that could be devoted
to the message I'm reading. Is there a way to get rid of it or
make it smaller?


-Michael

 

[Buford T. Justice]

This is what you said earlier...

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

So you are saying it is possible to use Hotmail (a Microsoft online service)
without a Hotmail address?

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

I wasn't talking about Hotmail. The discussion was about WLM.

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

Regarding those two sentences of mine you quoted.
Notice that one sentence immediately follows the other.
Those are not stand-alone sentences or stand-alone concepts.
Anyone who understands the meaning of 'context' will know
that the sentence "There is no requirement to try or use any
of Microsoft's online services" was in reference to trying or
using WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]


This is what you said earlier...

Whoever wrote that obviously hasn't tried WLM.
There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

Look I am not trying to be argumentative with you, but you were not taken
out of context. You made two separate statements the later being incorrect.
I guess it was just worded funny, but I take it that you were trying to say,
"There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's online services
within WLM." Without the WLM part, it is quite easy to see that you could
have meant ANY Microsoft online service regardless of it being in WLM or
not.

BT

I wasn't talking about Hotmail. The discussion was about WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

So you are saying it is possible to use Hotmail (a Microsoft online
service)
without a Hotmail address?

 

[Buford T. Justice]

Look at my reply a few posts below this one.

 

[Ron Sommer]

If it was quite easy, then why are you the only one having the
interpretation problem?

Your suggested revision is worse than the original statement.

This is the way that I have read and understood Gary's statement:
Using WLM does not require trying or using Microsoft's online services.

The original question meant that the discussion was to be about WLM.
"What do you think about the following opinion of WLM quoted from another
newsgroup?"
--
Ronald Sommer

Look I am not trying to be argumentative with you, but you were not taken
out of context. You made two separate statements the later being
incorrect. I guess it was just worded funny, but I take it that you were
trying to say, "There is no requirement to try or use any of Microsoft's
online services within WLM." Without the WLM part, it is quite easy to
see that you could have meant ANY Microsoft online service regardless of
it being in WLM or not.

BT

I wasn't talking about Hotmail. The discussion was about WLM.

--
Gary VanderMolen [MS-MVP WLM]

So you are saying it is possible to use Hotmail (a Microsoft online
service)
without a Hotmail address?

In reference to using WLM I said "There is no requirement
to try or use any of Microsoft's online services."
I stand by my statement. You haven't proved otherwise.