Alternative browser

[Tiger]

How does Firebird compare to Mozilla?

Faster, more features (via extensions).

--
Tiger

"Zero is where the fun starts
There is too much counting everywhere else."
- Hafiz

 

[Harvey Van Sickle]

I just wish both of those sides would "even" themselves out of
existence.

Well, when one gets jumped for pointing out a fact about software,
it's natural that factions are going to appear. Then the MS folks
start throwing around "MS-basher", the way gun control proponents
use "gun nuts". I don't think either are really called for. That
the other side then *responds* with "MS-Worshippers" is pretty
natural -- it's the apologists that have set the tone. The name
calling certainly didn't originate with those of us who can
seesome faults with some of the MS stuff. I can truthfully say
that I like Access, and haven't found anyhing its equivalent in
the Linux world, and that (except for certain things like its
horrible HTML creation) Word is a very capable word processor, and
that I've never had a complaint about Excel. But, you know, I'm
an "MS-basher" because I dislike OE and IE.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, people jump to conclusions way too quickly. (I didn't mean to
imply that you were one of the sides -- maybe you are, but I don't take
your posts that way.)

My own impression, though, is that knee-jerk reactions to comments
about the possible down-sides to programs is *way* stronger when one
comments on non-MS products: try saying "I think the way Opera does X
really sucks" in an Opera discussion group and just see how fast you're
labelled as a MS apologist -- even if you've never used IE.

As a lurker on such things -- I can't comment from personal experience
on this one -- I've definitely noticed that *any* partiatlly non-
rhapsodic comment about Linux often brings out a bunch of heavies who
wave metaphorical baseball bats at peoples' knees.

FWIW, I've stayed with Word and Excel, and have no urge to jump ship on
those. I've never used OE -- went from Eudora Lite and non-newsreading
to a paid-for e-mail client and XNews -- so it'd be daft for me to make
any comment on how good/bad/indifferent it is. It suits, which should
be enough.

But generally in these forums, it seems to me that people who defend OE
and MS products -- or critise the alternatives to those -- tend to get
jumped on faster and harder than people who defend the alternatives or
criticise MS products.

That's just my impression -- I've no stats to back it up.

 

[Max Quordlepleen]

Yeah, people jump to conclusions way too quickly. (I didn't mean
to imply that you were one of the sides -- maybe you are, but I
don't take your posts that way.)

My own impression, though, is that knee-jerk reactions to comments
about the possible down-sides to programs is *way* stronger when
one comments on non-MS products: try saying "I think the way
Opera does X really sucks" in an Opera discussion group and just
see how fast you're labelled as a MS apologist -- even if you've
never used IE.

I could sympathise with that I _HATE_ Opera, and would rather use IE,
if they were the only two browsers in existence.

The issue is a lot less complicated than that in this particular
thread. Blinky, I and several others have pointed out that the OP asked
about alternative _browsers_, and yet not one of the toys he listed
_is_ a browser. They are all just shells for a browser. Despite this,
when we say " they aren't browsers, if you want alternatives, try 'x, y
or z'", the name-calling began in earnest. There was no M$-bashing,
simply statement of fact regarding the nature of the programs the OP
listed, and answers to his questions.

 

[Jim Scott]

Vic Dura wrote on Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:28:26 GMT

How does Firebird compare to Mozilla?

Firebird is just a browser, no email.
Thunderbird is for email.

 

[Harvey Van Sickle]

-snip-


I could sympathise with that I _HATE_ Opera, and would rather use
IE, if they were the only two browsers in existence.

The issue is a lot less complicated than that in this particular
thread. Blinky, I and several others have pointed out that the OP
asked about alternative _browsers_, and yet not one of the toys he
listed _is_ a browser. They are all just shells for a browser.
Despite this, when we say " they aren't browsers, if you want
alternatives, try 'x, y or z'", the name-calling began in
earnest. There was no M$-bashing, simply statement of fact
regarding the nature of the programs the OP listed, and answers to
his questions.

Yeah, that's fair enough....but only to an extent, Lord Copper.....

The response of "these are not alternative browsers, these are shell
environments for a single browser" is a fine, neutral and entirely
accurate statement of fact.

Terming them "toys" -- and similar comments -- is *not* a statement of
fact: it's a pejorative comment on programs which have a legitimate
role to play in the grand scheme of things. (TINGSOT). If these are
"toys", then so too is any any other shell enhancement -- say a Windows
Explorer add-on -- regardless of how much functionality it might add to
an existing program.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Yeah, people jump to conclusions way too quickly. (I didn't mean to
imply that you were one of the sides -- maybe you are, but I don't take
your posts that way.)

Sure, I'm in that pocket. Ask the MS-worshippers.

My own impression, though, is that knee-jerk reactions to comments
about the possible down-sides to programs is *way* stronger when one
comments on non-MS products: try saying "I think the way Opera does X
really sucks" in an Opera discussion group and just see how fast you're
labelled as a MS apologist -- even if you've never used IE.

I *do* Opera groupss, coincidentally, and I don't see that.

As a lurker on such things -- I can't comment from personal experience
on this one -- I've definitely noticed that *any* partiatlly non-
rhapsodic comment about Linux often brings out a bunch of heavies who
wave metaphorical baseball bats at peoples' knees.

How many times have you seen "Linux-basher" tossed about? Compare to
the frequency of "MS-basher".

FWIW, I've stayed with Word and Excel, and have no urge to jump ship on
those. I've never used OE -- went from Eudora Lite and non-newsreading
to a paid-for e-mail client and XNews -- so it'd be daft for me to make
any comment on how good/bad/indifferent it is. It suits, which should
be enough.

But generally in these forums, it seems to me that people who defend OE
and MS products -- or critise the alternatives to those -- tend to get
jumped on faster and harder than people who defend the alternatives or
criticise MS products.

The MS-worshippers are the knee-jerkiest. And the jerkiest, come to
think of it.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

I could sympathise with that I _HATE_ Opera, and would rather use IE,
if they were the only two browsers in existence.

And I doubt that anybody would be calling you an "Opera-basher", if you
did. See the difference?

The issue is a lot less complicated than that in this particular
thread. Blinky, I and several others have pointed out that the OP
asked about alternative _browsers_, and yet not one of the toys he
listed _is_ a browser. They are all just shells for a browser. Despite
this, when we say " they aren't browsers, if you want alternatives,
try 'x, y or z'", the name-calling began in earnest. There was no
M$-bashing, simply statement of fact regarding the nature of the
programs the OP listed, and answers to his questions.

Can't win, if you're not an MS-toady. I went so far as to just say I
just don't like IE, when some newb pushed me, calling me *evasive* for
not laying out the old arguments for the thousandth time. I get my
choice -- "evasive" or "MS-basher". That's a choice?

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

The response of "these are not alternative browsers, these are
shell environments for a single browser" is a fine, neutral and
entirely accurate statement of fact.

"So?"

Terming them "toys" -- and similar comments -- is *not* a
statement of fact: it's a pejorative comment on programs which
have a legitimate role to play in the grand scheme of things.
(TINGSOT). If these are "toys", then so too is any any other
shell enhancement -- say a Windows Explorer add-on -- regardless
of how much functionality it might add to an existing program.

I haven't seen them called toys or referred to in any pejorative
way in this thread.

 

[Max Quordlepleen]

Terming them "toys" -- and similar comments -- is *not* a
statement of fact: it's a pejorative comment on programs which
have a legitimate role to play in the grand scheme of things.
(TINGSOT). If these are "toys", then so too is any any other
shell enhancement -- say a Windows Explorer add-on -- regardless
of how much functionality it might add to an existing program.

I agree entirely, which is why I used the pejorative only in this post,
not in my original. In this post, I allowed my own view of the products
to come through. In my first, I stuck to the facts, and I think you'll
find Blinky et al. did similarly, in their initial responses. Once the
name-calling began, then we started getting subjective. 8^)

 

[Max Quordlepleen]

And I doubt that anybody would be calling you an "Opera-basher",
if you did. See the difference?

Yes I do, clearly. I'm 100% on your side on the issue under discussion.
THe above was just a personal aside.

Can't win, if you're not an MS-toady. I went so far as to just
say I just don't like IE, when some newb pushed me, calling me
*evasive* for not laying out the old arguments for the thousandth
time. I get my choice -- "evasive" or "MS-basher". That's a
choice?

I see the same thing everywhere. In several NGs, there are discussions
about M$'s plans for DRM in 2003, and the M$ bleating about the
proposed new Asian OpenSource OS. In all these threads too, rational,
objective analysis of the facts is automatically labelled M$-bashing.
Ce'st la vie, I guess.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

I haven't seen them called toys or referred to in any pejorative
way in this thread.

Oops. Sorry. Max did call them toys in this meta-discussion about
MS-bashers and MS-worshipers.

 

[Bob Adkins]

No interest in security? There's only two uses for IE before I
eradicate it on a new install. I Download the patches for my OS and
download Moz or Firebird or Opera or K-Meleon. Curently, Mozilla 1.5a
is my preference. These browsers are orders of magnitude safer to use
than IE.

Oh but no! You're not getting ME into a browser war!

Bob

 

[Max Quordlepleen]

Oops. Sorry. Max did call them toys in this meta-discussion about
MS-bashers and MS-worshipers.

Yep, so I did. 8^)

 

[Bebop & Rocksteady]

What do you vote for? and why?

1) MyIE2
2) Avant Browser
3) Slim Browser
4) Crazy Browser

None of these are stand alone browsers and are all sheel replacements and
require IE to be installed.

However I personally prefer AVant. It just has a few nice features
* Grouped views
* TAB Browsing
* Multi Homepages
* Multi Proxies
* Popup Stopper
* Flash and animation stopper
* Java and Active X stopper

and is now skinable (which personally I don't care about)

I will say this it has been a while since I used the others and they
probably all have they same features now...


--
----------------------------------------
Quantum Illusions: http://quantum.2ya.com
Pegasus Mail Support Site: http://pegasus.quantum.2ya.com
Freeware Site: http://freeware.quantum.2ya.com
DATA Solutions: http://datasolutions.quantum.2ya.com

If you truly want to contact me click the link
http://quantum.2ya.com/email.htm

 

[Bernd Schmitt]

What do you vote for? and why?

1) MyIE2
2) Avant Browser
3) Slim Browser
4) Crazy Browser

none of them as they are all the same (IE), which does neglect standards
and is vulnerable by default.
I like mozilla 1.4 (1.5beta) or firebird.

 

[Luke]

Faster, more features (via extensions).

Faster maybe, more features no.

 

[Luke]

Can't win, if you're not an MS-toady.

I don't know about "winning" but....

I went so far as to just say I

just don't like IE, when some newb pushed me, calling me *evasive* for
not laying out the old arguments for the thousandth time.

But did it cross your mind that being a "newb" is a reason why he
needed you to lay out the old arguments for the thousandth time?

 

[tlshell]

What's the use in trying to ignore a 500 pound gorilla in the room? You
cannot remove IE, or the OS will not work right. Since you must keep it
anyway, you may as well use it.

Depends which OS you mean; I use W98SE. However, I keep IE only for
the rare page that I want to access that won't accept anything else. I
do not use it for updating my OS and I do keep it on a very strict
leash.

 

[null]

Oh but no! You're not getting ME into a browser war!

Hadn't you heard? The war is over and IE lost


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Bob Adkins]

Hadn't you heard? The war is over and IE lost

That's fine with me. I like to root for the underdog anyway.

Bob