XP Stalls at detection screen on first bootup after unplug

K

Kimberly

Hello All,

I just purchased a complete computer system, from a fairly
reputable company. Its a pentium 2.8 800fsb, 80gb hardrive
1 gb ram, nvidia 128 quadro video card, intel mother
board, 420 enlight power supply. The problem that I am
having is that I turn off my surge suppressor when I am
done using my computer for the day. (Belkin suppressor)
The next time I go to use my computer it wont boot up the
first time I power up. It stalls at the screen that shows
the keyboard detection and all the other stuff. I then
need to reboot. Then it works fine. This is a little
ridiculous. Has anyone had this problem?
 
K

Kimberly

That is correct, if I never shut off the surge
suppressor , or unplug my computer then it will always
start just fine. This happened right out of the box,the
first time I turned it on. In my first post I didnt
mention that I properly shut down my computer everytime I
use it,just thought I might add that. The thing is the
manufacutor is telling me that I should just leave my
surge suppressor on all the time. Thats great, but this
shouldnt happen. I cant even unplug my computer to move it
without having this happen. Please help. Thank you!
 
U

Unknown

The only thing I can suggest is to power down without shutting off the surge
protector and then power up and display what your BIOS settings are. Make note
of them. Then, power off and shut down the surge protector, wait at least 2
minutes, power up and display your BIOS settings. You may have a bad CMOS for
your BIOS. Check the battery, however, your system is too new to have a bad
battery but things happen. The manufacturer should fix it under waranty. Tell
the manufacturer it's bad practice to leave a system plugged in in a thunder
storm.
 
R

Rocket J. Squirrel

On many computers, even if you press the 'power off' button, the computer is
still 'on'. Check the documentation that came with your computer, which will
also tell you how to completely power off your computer.

By the way, why do you turn off the surge suppressor at the end of the day?

Rocky
 
U

Unknown

No it's not. Only a standby power supply is on to allow recognition of the
power on button.
 
K

Kimberly

Thank you for your response! I would like to try this
tonight. How do I check the battery?
 
K

Kimberly

If I shut my computer down through windows, then I am
assuming that it is shut down completely? Is that
correct, I thought that it was a function of windows XP. I
shut off my surge suppressor at the end of the day because
I have seen an APC surge protector (at work) smolder
because there was low voltage coming back through the
ground.Basically I think something is wrong with my
computer and I am trying to pin point it.
 
U

Unknown

You need a voltmeter for that. If you don't have one skip checking it. Most
people just replace it. BUT, if you replace it make sure you know what all
your BIOS settings are and how to get to the BIOS as, when you remove it you
lose all settings. Your system is really too new to have a bad battery.
One other thing, go to control panel, power options and check your settings
there. Make sure you are not configured with having a UPS---Uninterruptable
Power Source.
 
K

Kimberly

I am not configured for having a UPS at all. Do you think
the power supply in my computer is bad? Its an ENLIGHT
420. We have 2 of the identical computers at work. When
these power supplies first get power and the computer is
off, then rev up just like they were starting for a second
and then they stop. The thing is none of the computers at
work have this problem. Although the computers at work are
windows 2000.
Thanks
 
R

Rocket J. Squirrel

"If I shut my computer down through windows, then I am assuming that it is
shut down completely? Is that correct, I thought that it was a function of
windows XP."

You cannot make that assumption. You need to check your computer's
documentation to determine how to completely power off.

"I have seen an APC surge protector (at work) smolder because there was low
voltage coming back through the ground."

What you saw is an exceptional case, and may have more to do with the
building's internal wiring. Every now and then, fights break out in these
groups over what a surge protector really does or does not do. I hope I
haven't started another one.

BTW, you really should consider a UPS. They can be quite inexpensive and
give you protection against power drops as well as surges.

Rocky
 
S

stevemiller

It does smell of a BIOS or Cmos problem but I would first
set all BIOS/ COMoS functions to default and then check
for updates from the manufacturers..
-----Original Message-----
I am not configured for having a UPS at all. Do you think
the power supply in my computer is bad? Its an ENLIGHT
420. We have 2 of the identical computers at work. When
these power supplies first get power and the computer is
off, then rev up just like they were starting for a second
and then they stop. The thing is none of the computers at
work have this problem. Although the computers at work are
windows 2000.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
You need a voltmeter for that. If you don't have one
skip
checking it. Most
people just replace it. BUT, if you replace it make
sure
you know what all
your BIOS settings are and how to get to the BIOS as, when you remove it you
lose all settings. Your system is really too new to have a bad battery.
One other thing, go to control panel, power options and check your settings
there. Make sure you are not configured with having a
UPS-
--Uninterruptable
Power Source.
fix
 
R

Rocket J. Squirrel

....oh yeah, lots of fights about UPSes, too. In fact, I think I smell one
coming.

Rocky
 
U

Unknown

Just like your JV16 Power Tools 'interface' ????
Rocket J. Squirrel said:
...oh yeah, lots of fights about UPSes, too. In fact, I think I smell one
coming.

Rocky
 
U

Unknown

What is the specific indication of a failure to power on or bootup after
turning the surge suppressor back on? Is your keyboard connected via USB?
 
W

w_tom

Power supply is a less likely reason for problem. Return to
the symptoms. It works fine when started while 'always on'
part was powered from AC mains (power switch on power strip
always on)(condition A). It works fine when computer is
running - turning peripherals and even parts inside the CPU on
and off - normal run mode (condition B). Problem only occurs
when power to 'always on' parts of computer is removed before
startup (condition C).

If power supply works just fine during conditions A & B.
Power supply is OK. Locate a problem only unique to condition
C.

If battery was going bad, then clock previously was quickly
losing time when computer was powered off. If battery got so
bad as to let CMOS loose important data, then BIOS would first
detect bad CMOS checksum error and announce problem during
power up. If clock has been maintaining time weeks previously
and CMOS Checksum error is not announced, then battery is not
likely to be reason for failure.

Furthermore, battery and CMOS are not related to condition C
- the problem condition.


All subsystems must receive a reset signal to put every
memory (register or state device) in a known condition. Reset
can be generated three ways - reset 1) from a master reset
signal, reset 2) by detecting a voltage turn on and maintain
create a reset long enough for power supply voltage to
stabilize, or reset 3) commanded by software.

Lets assume your keyboard is reason for a BIOS hang.
Keyboard has its own single chip computer (originally the
famous 8048 or 8051 series). Now that computer, during power
up must first be reset. How?

Computer master reset (reset 1) typically does not exist.
Therefore keyboard must reset either by detecting voltage turn
on (reset 2) or from a software command (reset 3). Reset 3
assumes computer is already running - can understand reset 3
message.

When you leave power strip in power on condition, then the
many 'always on' circuits inside that system remain powered.
This is condition A - powerup without failure. Typically
connected to that 'always on' power is keyboard. Once BIOS
starts executing, then BIOS (before booting XP) will issue a
software command (reset 3) to that keyboard computer.
Keyboard computer then acknowledges the message. BIOS moves
on to setup other parts of computer. No hangup.

Now lets assume you turned power strip off. The 'always on'
circuits are no longer powered. When you turn power strip on
- condition C, then keyboard must generate its own master
reset (reset 2). But what happens when that keyboard (reset
2) circuit is not quite right? Sometimes it resets correctly
- but not always. When keyboard's internal master reset does
not work, then BIOS hangs waiting for a response from
keyboard. This type of reset only occurs during Condition C -
power strip switch cycled.

This hardware defect is not observed when computer is always
connected to wall receptacle because keyboard always remains
powered - condition A powerup - component need not create its
own reset (reset 2).

Also some components create a reset 2 so slow that it works
for some power sources and not others. That is still a
defective reset 2 regardless of which power supply is used.
Reset 2 should be so long as to make power supply response
irrelevant - a design defect in the component.

One way to test keyboard computer's (reset 2) functions is
to remove and connect keyboard while Windows is working. If
reset 2 works, then keyboard will continue working normally.
This simulates a condition A power up limited only on
keyboard. It tests keyboard's own internal reset 2 circuit.

Again, above assumes BIOS was getting stuck waiting for
keyboard. Other components also can hang the BIOS. Some
BIOSes will time out - announce the failure using error
message on screen or via beep codes from speaker. For a
better answer, you must supply more information. But power
supply and CMOS, typically, would not be reason for this type
of failure. Power supply or CMOS would also have to create a
condition A power up failure.

To create a list of devices that can cause your problem,
identify which components are part of the 'always on'
circuit. 'Always on' may include network card, mouse, modem,
and another important motherboard circuit - the power supply
controller. Try a condition C powerup with each 'always on'
peripheral removed. By process of elimination, the offending
component can be identified.

Why understand conditions A-C? If you remove an NIC or
modem while computer is ready for condition A (computer
appears off but 'always on' circuits fully energized), then
that card or motherboard port can be damaged. Never work on
computer with power cord connected to wall or power strip.
Just because it looks off means nothing. Without a meter, you
don't know what is what.

The problem is quite simple to solve. The difficult part is
comprehending so much new information. Take it real slow if
don't appreciate how hardware works; for example did not even
know of those three types of resets nor the three types (A -
C) of power conditions. To understand little tests that would
locate this problem, one should reread this post at least
three times; each reading discovers more information. I do
same thing when doctor prescribes a drug. Its not hard.
Simply takes reading multiple times.

Will UPS solve any of this? Of course not. UPS connects
computer directly to wall receptacle when not in battery
backup mode. IOW UPS has same circuits connecting computer
directly to wall - just like as that protector strip (when UPS
is not in battery backup mode).

Smoking power strip: power strip must have a 15 amp circuit
breaker as also provided on $3 power strips. Unfortunately,
too many protectors power strips are so expensive, and still
don't have that important 15 amp circuit breaker. No circuit
breaker; then dispose of it as a threat to human life.
 
K

Kimberly

Hi Tom,

I wanted to thank you for your post. I am now in the
process of running my computer without cd/dvd reader,
cd/dvd writer, floppy drive. I did run the western
digitial test on my hard drive and it did not turn up any
errors. So without any of those devices plugged in my
computer booted up fine. The place where it was stopping
was at the point in the bios when the last two lines are
hit f2 or f12. It is an intel mother board 865 chipset,
800 fsb. Anyway I am going to turn off the power strip
tonight, I am going to leave the components unplugged and
then try it in the morning. If all goes well then I will
slowly add back components one at a time.

Thank you again for such a helpfull post.

Kim
 
K

Kimbelry

So far I have bootef up without those devices about 4
times once twice last night twice this morning. Last
night I had the surge suppressor power off all night, and
then I even unplugged the computer. This morning booted
up without problems. I have plugged in the floppy and
booted up fine again. I will leave my surge suppressor
off all day and try again tonight. I hate to keep turning
off my computer so many times in one day. I heard it was
bad for it. Is that true? Anyway, I will post any finding
good or bad. Thank you. Kim
 

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