XP rebooting at startup, missing NTFS partition and other strangen

[Guest]

Hi Folks,

I have a system that is getting long in the tooth. It is a Dell Dimension
XPS T700r (P-III 700 MHz). I have been running XP, keeping up with all the
latest service patches, running regular virus checks, spyware checks, etc. I
have four kids ranging from 3 to 11 and they give the system a good workout.
Recently I noticed some very strange behavior that has come to a head and
would greatly appreciate your advice.

The first symptom was that the system had slowed down to a tremendous crawl.
I ran virus checks, spyware checks, and adware checks and came up rather
clean. I defragged my C: drive (a 130 GB Maxtor ATA/133). However, this
evening the system just dragged to the point of needing a hard reboot. This
is where the trouble began.

The system would start booting in the XP. The little blue bars under the XP
logo would scan 5 times, then we would see a quick BSOD and the system would
reboot. I don't recall setting it to auto reboot because I always liked to
look at the messages in days past to try and figure out the root cause of a
problem, but it may indeed be set to auto reboot. Can't tell at this point.

I tried using the install CD to see if I could do some repair. However, I
had to reboot about four or five times to get the installer to come up
cleanly. Each time it died with a different message, sometimes a .sys file,
sometimes an error in a .C file. "Aha!!" I thought, "Bad memory!" So I
pulled out each of my three 256 MB chips and rebooted with only one of them
installed at a time to find the culprit. No such luck. The same behavior
was exhibited all three times.

OK, on to the next. I ran the CD to the recovery mode. However, it didn't
show me the C drive, only the E drive (which is on the original HDD, a Maxtor
80 GB ATA/133). So I swapped the hard drives and made the 80 GB one the
Master. I rebooted into NT 4.0 (thank goodness I am consistent with my
Administrator passwords!) and went to look at the NTFS partion for XP. No
such luck, NT reported I/O error on that drive.

OK, so now I'm thinking "bad NTFS partion" and start looking into it. But,
if it was a bad partition (say a corrupted MBR), then why would XP start
(that is, the loader would load and start executing)? I would expect to see "

If it isn't a bad partition, then why can't NT 4.0 see the NTFS partition --
has there been a change so that NT4.0 can't read the XP formatted NTFS
partion?

What do you experienced folks recommend? Should I try something like Active
Uneraser to try to recover my MBR? I tried to follow MS's knowledge base for
repairing a corrupt registry that is preventing boot up, but remember, the
Recovery Console only showed me the NT40 installation on the E: drive, not
the XP installation on the C: drive.

At this point, I'm starting to think bad motherboard, but I will still need
to get the data off of that NTFS partion, so I don't want to reformat it at
any costs!

I greatly appreciate your time and help.

Petie

 

[q_q_anonymous]

Hi Folks,

I have a system that is getting long in the tooth. It is a Dell Dimension
XPS T700r (P-III 700 MHz). I have been running XP, keeping up with all the
latest service patches, running regular virus checks, spyware checks, etc. I
have four kids ranging from 3 to 11 and they give the system a good workout.
Recently I noticed some very strange behavior that has come to a head and
would greatly appreciate your advice.

The first symptom was that the system had slowed down to a tremendous crawl.
I ran virus checks, spyware checks, and adware checks and came up rather
clean. I defragged my C: drive (a 130 GB Maxtor ATA/133). However, this
evening the system just dragged to the point of needing a hard reboot. This
is where the trouble began.

The system would start booting in the XP. The little blue bars under the XP
logo would scan 5 times, then we would see a quick BSOD and the system would
reboot. I don't recall setting it to auto reboot because I always liked to
look at the messages in days past to try and figure out the root cause of a
problem, but it may indeed be set to auto reboot. Can't tell at this point.

I tried using the install CD to see if I could do some repair. However, I
had to reboot about four or five times to get the installer to come up
cleanly. Each time it died with a different message, sometimes a .sys file,
sometimes an error in a .C file. "Aha!!" I thought, "Bad memory!" So I
pulled out each of my three 256 MB chips and rebooted with only one of them
installed at a time to find the culprit. No such luck. The same behavior
was exhibited all three times.

OK, on to the next. I ran the CD to the recovery mode. However, it didn't
show me the C drive, only the E drive (which is on the original HDD, a Maxtor
80 GB ATA/133). So I swapped the hard drives and made the 80 GB one the
Master. I rebooted into NT 4.0 (thank goodness I am consistent with my
Administrator passwords!) and went to look at the NTFS partion for XP. No
such luck, NT reported I/O error on that drive.

OK, so now I'm thinking "bad NTFS partion" and start looking into it. But,
if it was a bad partition (say a corrupted MBR), then why would XP start
(that is, the loader would load and start executing)? I would expect to see "

If it isn't a bad partition, then why can't NT 4.0 see the NTFS partition --
has there been a change so that NT4.0 can't read the XP formatted NTFS
partion?

What do you experienced folks recommend? Should I try something like Active
Uneraser to try to recover my MBR? I tried to follow MS's knowledge base for
repairing a corrupt registry that is preventing boot up, but remember, the
Recovery Console only showed me the NT40 installation on the E: drive, not
the XP installation on the C: drive.

At this point, I'm starting to think bad motherboard, but I will still need
to get the data off of that NTFS partion, so I don't want to reformat it at
any costs!

I greatly appreciate your time and help.

Petie

2 HDDs didn't work with diff OSs? that does indicate bad MBRD.
specifically, perhaps a bad IDE connector. You could try putting the
HDD on the other IDE connector. Or try the HDDs in another computer /
on another motherboard.
Maybe all the data is actually fine, but I think you sohuld avoid that
MBRD incase you corrupt the HDDs. I once saw a MBRD with a bad IDE
port, I moved the HDD onto the other IDE port, and oddly, a year later,
that IDE port went. That can make it appear like the HDD has no C. Or
it doesn't boot up, or it freezes.

The other issue is data recovery. If you have trouble recovering data,
then also try a newsgroup that specialises in data recovery. Some have
some luck with HDD in freezer for a while. and/or getting an identical
HDD and changing the circuit board. There may also be special software.
The HDD manufacturer may have something on their site. Other HDD
manufacuters may have 'generic' i.e. works on any model/make of HDD. I
once had luck with putting a HDD on a USB-IDE adaptor, but another time
a bad HDD never worked again after I didn't 'disable the usb' , I just
unplugged it. So, there are even things you can do regarding data
recovery. But if a HDD is really screwed, then you have to be lucky.
Unless you're a data recovery professional.

 

[Guest]

Hi Folks,

I have a system that is getting long in the tooth. It is a Dell Dimension [snip]

I greatly appreciate your time and help.

Petie

2 HDDs didn't work with diff OSs? that does indicate bad MBRD.
specifically, perhaps a bad IDE connector. You could try putting the
HDD on the other IDE connector. Or try the HDDs in another computer /
on another motherboard.
Maybe all the data is actually fine, but I think you sohuld avoid that
MBRD incase you corrupt the HDDs. I once saw a MBRD with a bad IDE
port, I moved the HDD onto the other IDE port, and oddly, a year later,
that IDE port went. That can make it appear like the HDD has no C. Or
it doesn't boot up, or it freezes.

The other issue is data recovery. If you have trouble recovering data,
then also try a newsgroup that specialises in data recovery. Some have
some luck with HDD in freezer for a while. and/or getting an identical
HDD and changing the circuit board. There may also be special software.
The HDD manufacturer may have something on their site. Other HDD
manufacuters may have 'generic' i.e. works on any model/make of HDD. I
once had luck with putting a HDD on a USB-IDE adaptor, but another time
a bad HDD never worked again after I didn't 'disable the usb' , I just
unplugged it. So, there are even things you can do regarding data
recovery. But if a HDD is really screwed, then you have to be lucky.
Unless you're a data recovery professional.

Thanks for replying. Your idea of putting the HDD in the freezer is really
interesting because I noticed that my drives were wicked hot. This could
also be a matter of the drives overheating. The fans seem to be working
correctly, and the side panel was off, so there should have been plenty of
air -- it just might not have been the proper flow.

I don't follow your meaning on "special software" or "generic" -- do you
mean something that is very low level and can read the MBR to determine if it
is damaged?

BTW, I need to make a small correction. My second OS is Win2K, not NT 4.0.
This is important because there was a change in NTFS between 4.0 and 2000,
but not between 2000 and XP, if I remember correctly. If not, then I look
forward to everyones assistance in understanding the possible causes.

- Petie

 

[Guest]

Just wanted to clarify a few things. I mentioned one in a reply below.

1) My second OS is Win2K, not NT4.0. This is important because I believe
there was a change in NTFS from 4.0 to 2K, but not from 2K to XP.
2) When considering a bad NTFS partition (e.g. corrupt MBR), then I would
expect to see "operating system not found". However, as mentioned in the
post, the XP loader is found and starts loading.
3) I never clearly identified that I am running XP Pro.

Many thanks again for your time and help.

- Petie

 

[q_q_anonymous]

Hi Folks,

I have a system that is getting long in the tooth. It is a Dell Dimension [snip]

I greatly appreciate your time and help.

Petie

2 HDDs didn't work with diff OSs? that does indicate bad MBRD.
specifically, perhaps a bad IDE connector. You could try putting the
HDD on the other IDE connector. Or try the HDDs in another computer /
on another motherboard.
Maybe all the data is actually fine, but I think you sohuld avoid that
MBRD incase you corrupt the HDDs. I once saw a MBRD with a bad IDE
port, I moved the HDD onto the other IDE port, and oddly, a year later,
that IDE port went. That can make it appear like the HDD has no C. Or
it doesn't boot up, or it freezes.

The other issue is data recovery. If you have trouble recovering data,
then also try a newsgroup that specialises in data recovery. Some have
some luck with HDD in freezer for a while. and/or getting an identical
HDD and changing the circuit board. There may also be special software.
The HDD manufacturer may have something on their site. Other HDD
manufacuters may have 'generic' i.e. works on any model/make of HDD. I
once had luck with putting a HDD on a USB-IDE adaptor, but another time
a bad HDD never worked again after I didn't 'disable the usb' , I just
unplugged it. So, there are even things you can do regarding data
recovery. But if a HDD is really screwed, then you have to be lucky.
Unless you're a data recovery professional.

Thanks for replying. Your idea of putting the HDD in the freezer is really
interesting because I noticed that my drives were wicked hot. This could
also be a matter of the drives overheating.

possibly. but that's not related to the fix of putting a drive (wrapped
up) in a freezer.

The fans seem to be working
correctly, and the side panel was off, so there should have been plenty of
air -- it just might not have been the proper flow.

could be HDD overheating. Though it shouldn't really overheat . You can
get freeware to display HDD temperature. I can't remember waht is an ok
temp.

Me looking at one usenet post, (not good research!) Perhaps less than
50 degrees, and not more than 15 degrees above room temp.

I don't follow your meaning on "special software" or "generic" -- do you
mean something that is very low level and can read the MBR to determine if it
is damaged?

well, Hitachi make a "Drive fitness test" i'm not sure if that runs on
Any hard drive.
These things would be low level. But may do a variety of things. e.g. I
saw one prog that writes zeros on the HDD. Not exactly checking to see
if the MBR is corrupt!

BTW, I need to make a small correction. My second OS is Win2K, not NT 4.0.
This is important because there was a change in NTFS between 4.0 and 2000,
but not between 2000 and XP, if I remember correctly. If not, then I look
forward to everyones assistance in understanding the possible causes.

I don't have much NT experience.

If it is a bad MBRD then the probs could be very random. The first
thing I would do is try the drives in another computer. Then you know
if the HDDs are bad - hence you have to do data recovery. Or if the
MBRD is bad.
Otherwise you could spend days trying to guess at the problem. At the
end of the day, I think the best thing to do is get the data off the
drives, wipe partitions off, recreate them and reinstall your programs.
Maybe use dfiferent HDDs. Monitor HDD temp too. If you keep running
into diff HDD problems or even the same HDD problems, you could just be
making matters worse.

 

[Guest]

Thanks so very much q_q,

- Petie

:

[snip]
Otherwise you could spend days trying to guess at the problem. At the
end of the day, I think the best thing to do is get the data off the
drives, wipe partitions off, recreate them and reinstall your programs.
Maybe use dfiferent HDDs. Monitor HDD temp too. If you keep running
into diff HDD problems or even the same HDD problems, you could just be
making matters worse.

 

[coal_brona]

Greetings,

If the partition seem to be lost, then Partition Recovery utility
should help you. This is a powerful tool that helped me before. It can
be found on a data tools set CD image Active@ Boot Disk, that also
includes other awesome utilities for data erase, recovery and backup.
I'm pretty sure you will find it really useful.

http://www.ntfs.com/boot-disk.htm

 

[Guest]

Thanks so much for your recommendation. I came across NTFS.com during my
searches and it is helpful to have a positive recommendation.

I am going to have to replace the entire machine. The errors became worse
with each attempt to boot the system into an OS or into the install disk.
Yesterday, after pressing Enter to boot into the CD, the system reported a
"Memory Overflow Error" and now won't POST and the BIOS doesn't come up.
I've stripped it bare to see if I find a root cause, and it looks like the
motherboard is dead. Since it's a Dell, and about six years old, it looks
like it needs to be entirely replaced. I can then try recovering the
partition from the replacement machine.

Thanks again,

Petie