XP Backup to backup everything

[David]

Hi all,

After a very serious system crash a couple of weeks ago (I lost my hard disk
and then I also lost my backup hard disk - VERY UNLUCKY. and Very
Stressful.). I have recently discovered that XP has a backup program, which
I am now using. I am backing up my whole system once per week to a network
share and doing a differential every day to that share. (Doing it over wifi
and that will take ages to do my complete system. :-( ) The backup is on a
scheduled task to start at 22:45

Just gone into my differential this morning and seen red exclamation marks
on some folders. Looking in those folders, it doesn't have my files that I
currently have open in there.

I sort of know about volume shadow copy. I do NOT have the box ticked in
windows backup. However, my volume shadow copy service is NOT started
either.

What should I be doing to ensure I have everything?

Should the service be running? Should it be running BEFORE I have any open
files? Should Windows Backup just be copying everything anyway? I am
assuming that I should NOT have the check box ticked.

I have tried googling about how to run backup, but these are just the very
simplistic screen shots and say nothing about volume shadow copy apart from
the check box.

--
Best regards,
Dave Colliver.
http://www.AshfieldFOCUS.com
~~
http://www.FOCUSPortals.com - Local franchises available

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

Hi all,

After a very serious system crash a couple of weeks ago (I lost my hard
disk and then I also lost my backup hard disk - VERY UNLUCKY. and Very
Stressful.). I have recently discovered that XP has a backup program,
which I am now using. I am backing up my whole system once per week to a
network share and doing a differential every day to that share. (Doing it
over wifi and that will take ages to do my complete system. :-( ) The
backup is on a scheduled task to start at 22:45

Just gone into my differential this morning and seen red exclamation marks
on some folders. Looking in those folders, it doesn't have my files that I
currently have open in there.

I sort of know about volume shadow copy. I do NOT have the box ticked in
windows backup. However, my volume shadow copy service is NOT started
either.

What should I be doing to ensure I have everything?

Should the service be running? Should it be running BEFORE I have any open
files? Should Windows Backup just be copying everything anyway? I am
assuming that I should NOT have the check box ticked.

I have tried googling about how to run backup, but these are just the very
simplistic screen shots and say nothing about volume shadow copy apart
from the check box.

--
Best regards,
Dave Colliver.
http://www.AshfieldFOCUS.com
~~
http://www.FOCUSPortals.com - Local franchises available

A couple of questions:
- What is the full ntbackup command line you use?
- What does the most recent ntbackup log file report?

 

[David]

Hi,

Thanks for the response...

For my differential... (under scheduled tasks)

C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntbackup.exe backup "@C:\Documents and
Settings\dave.DAVID\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows
NT\NTBackup\data\Incremental_Differential.bks" /n
"DavidIncrementalBackup.bkf created 26/03/2009 at 13:34" /d "Set created
26/03/2009 at 13:34" /v:yes /r:no /rs:no /hcff /m differential /j
"Incremental_Differential" /l:s /f
"\\deblaptop\SystemBackups$\DavidIncrementalBackup.bkf"



For my full (under scheduled tasks, though not run as yet)

C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntbackup.exe backup "@C:\Documents and
Settings\dave.DAVID\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows
NT\NTBackup\data\Full Backup.bks" /n "DavidFullBackup.bkf created 26/03/2009
at 13:31" /d "Set created 26/03/2009 at 13:31" /v:yes /r:no /rs:no /hcff
/m normal /j "Full Backup" /l:s /f
"\\deblaptop\SystemBackups$\DavidFullBackup.bkf"


The above were created using the backup wizard.


Not sure where my log file is... I thought it would be here
C:\Documents and Settings\dave.DAVID\Local Settings\Application
Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\data
but the one here is when I ran my full backup (by hand) a few days ago.

It is not in my backup folder either.

--
Best regards,
Dave Colliver.
http://www.AshfieldFOCUS.com
~~
http://www.FOCUSPortals.com - Local franchises available

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

A few comments:

- You did not specify the Shadow Copy option (/snapn) in your command
line. This means that files that are in use will not get backed up.

- You do not appear to monitor your backup reports. IMHO this is a key
element of every robust backup scheme, and one that gets often ignored. A
good method consists of setting up a routine that automatically emails you a
copy of the report once every 10 days or so. You'll find the reports in the
place where you looked, except that they are located in the profile folder
of the account used to run the backup task, not in your own profile folder.

- ntbackup.exe is not noted for its user friendliness. Restoring files can
be a big chore. I normally use robocopy.exe (which will not touch files that
are in use). Many people use one of the Acronis backup solutions (which are
NOT freeware).

 

[David]

Ah, it seems that the wizard doesn't put the /snap option in then. I didn't
even know about it, so thank you, I will put it in.

I would monitor my reports, but cannot find them. It is not in my
administrator folder either. (Same path, change david to administrator).

I will be regularly checking that the backup works (by restoring to another
disk and checking that disk works when installed).

I have used robocopy in the past, but as you note, it won't touch in use
files. Another prob with robocopy on vista (not my current machine but I
have had probs) is the junctions. You can tell it to ignore junctions but
then you lose them when you come to restore, but also if you don't tell it
to ignore junctions, one of the folders is linked to its parent, so you get
a recursive loop.

I am an experienced computer user. I just didn't know windows backup was
there, so have not used it. However, as windows backup can do copying of
open files and robocopy can't, then that is what I will use. I want to be in
a position where I can get a full system recovery should I need to. (I can
then do a robocopy with the main disk offline if required to ensure I get
everything since last backup)

I will let you know how it goes.

--
Best regards,
Dave Colliver.
http://www.AshfieldFOCUS.com
~~
http://www.FOCUSPortals.com - Local franchises available

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

It shouldn't bee to hard to find your backup log files - this console
command will do it in a jiffy:

dir /s "%UserProfile%\..\backup*.log"

Mind the two dots between the backslashes!

 

[David]

Cool. That worked... though I did try using windows search and it didn't
find anything.

Found it in...
C:\Documents and Settings\administrator.DAVID.000\Local Settings\Application
Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\data

I will put a shortcut to the folder on my desktop.

My log file has...

Backup Status
Operation: Backup
Active backup destination: File
Media name: "DavidIncrementalBackup.bkf created 26/03/2009 at 22:45"


Error returned while creating the volume shadow copy:800423f4
Reverting to non-shadow copy backup mode.
Backup of "C: "
Backup set #1 on media #1
Backup description: "Set created 26/03/2009 at 13:34"
Media name: "DavidIncrementalBackup.bkf created 26/03/2009 at 22:45"

Backup Type: Differential

(A few files - skipped - Reason: The process cannot access the file because
it is being used by another process.)

(a couple files - skipped - Reason: Access is denied.)

end ends with...


Backup completed on 27/03/2009 at 01:09.
Directories: 42064
Files: 24391
Bytes: 5,171,994,129
Time: 2 hours, 6 minutes, and 50 seconds

----------------------

Verify Status
Operation: Verify After Backup
Active backup destination: File
Active backup destination:
\\deblaptop\SystemBackups$\DavidIncrementalBackup.bkf

Verify of "C:"
Backup set #1 on media #1
Backup description: "Set created 26/03/2009 at 13:34"
Verify started on 27/03/2009 at 01:09.
Verify completed on 27/03/2009 at 02:37.
Directories: 42064
Files: 24391
Different: 0
Bytes: 5,171,993,747
Time: 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 55 seconds

----------------------



--
Best regards,
Dave Colliver.
http://www.AshfieldFOCUS.com
~~
http://www.FOCUSPortals.com - Local franchises available

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

I keep reading bad things about Windows Search. Since you're an experienced
computer user you should use basic console commands when you don't get the
results you expect with pretty inbuilt tools. GUIs are fine for average
users but they can be quite deceptive.

About the report itself: You obviously need to enable the shadow copy
option. You also need to resolve some permission issues. About creating a
desktop shortcut to the folder where the backup reports reside: Experience
says that this works fine for a few weeks, then falls into oblivion. In my
experience the only approach that really works is to make the most recent
report pop up automatically on your screen once every x days. Make it too
often and you'll soon ignore them. Make it too seldom and you'll remain
unaware for too long about a backup failure.

 

[David]

Hi,

Thanks for the help...

I use cmd a lot, but out of practice on a lot of stuff with it. (I used to
do tech support but am now a programmer. Been working with computers for 20
years, programming for 10.)

To enable the shadow copy, is it simply just doing the /scann switch in my
scheduled task or do I need to do something else, for example the volume
shadow copy service?

--
Best regards,
Dave Colliver.
http://www.AshfieldFOCUS.com
~~
http://www.FOCUSPortals.com - Local franchises available

 

[Twayne]

Hi all,

After a very serious system crash a couple of weeks ago (I lost my
hard disk and then I also lost my backup hard disk - VERY UNLUCKY.
and Very Stressful.). I have recently discovered that XP has a backup
program, which I am now using. I am backing up my whole system once
per week to a network share and doing a differential every day to
that share. (Doing it over wifi and that will take ages to do my
complete system. :-( ) The backup is on a scheduled task to start at
22:45
Just gone into my differential this morning and seen red exclamation
marks on some folders. Looking in those folders, it doesn't have my
files that I currently have open in there.

I sort of know about volume shadow copy. I do NOT have the box ticked
in windows backup. However, my volume shadow copy service is NOT
started either.

Tick that box. Your backup will not include any files that are "in use"
on any drive, including some critical system files on the C drive or
system drive.

What should I be doing to ensure I have everything?

Be sure to check the Volum Shadow Copy box and check your Report file
after each backup to look for errors. Note that opens with NotePad and
can be saved to any location you wish to keep it in.

Should the service be running?

Yes.
Should it be running BEFORE I have any

open files?

Not necessarily, but it's a good idea. It won't get used until you start
a backup.

Should Windows Backup just be copying everything anyway?

I am assuming that I should NOT have the check box ticked.

Wrong assumption. Check it. IT's what enables everything to be backed
up.

I have tried googling about how to run backup, but these are just the
very simplistic screen shots and say nothing about volume shadow copy
apart from the check box.

Which is most of your problem from the sound of it.


To sort of pull things together, YES, you need VSS (Volume Shadow Copy )
running. So when you see that box you need to tick it if:
-- You are backing up system files (usually drive C)
-- You are using the machine during the backup.
Both so it will copy files that are "in use". Without it, any open
files and some System Files will NOT be backed up.

With it, a "snapshot" of the file is taken during the backup and that
is saved to your backup. That means that if you are working on a file
during backup or just have it open, what will be backed up will be what
exists at the time the snapshot is taken, and not what you finally save.
It will probably also include a lot of temporary files that go along
with the open programs.

It's best if a backup can be run overnight, unattended, when all
programs are closed and no work is being done on the computer.

ntbackup is a fairly good backup system and I used to use it a lot for
daily incremental backups and a monthly full backup. In addition
whenever I added or deleted anything important to me I created a System
Backup of the C drive and burned it to DVDs so I would always at least
have that available. Many business will also create yet another copy
and save it somewhere offsite in storage cabinets. I do a form of that
by trading backup DVDs with my sister; thus, even burning down my
computer room wouldn't leave me without backups.

I've never had the Restore problems other have mentioned with
ntbackup.exe and I can Restore a single file, a fodler/s or the entier
thing.
CAVEAT: With ntbackup, in order to have fullest protection as in
restoring to a new drive, reformatted drive, etc., you have to make the
ASR bootable floppy. It doesn't provide for DVD ASRs. Too old, I
guess.
I still use ntbackup to create System State backups, which are all of
the relevant system files, registry and then some, because it's easy and
quickl to do. But for normal day to day backups I and many others h ave
now moved on to what's called disk imaging programs. Those programs
automatically use the VSS feature and work completely automatically,
with lots of bells & whistles for scheduling, types of backups when and
several other things. Specifically I use Norton Ghost from Symantec,
and Acronis True Image is another one that gets a lot of mention
especially here, and if you're the more tekkie type, BootItNG is a good
one, though NOT for someone who is not well versed in the nuances of the
machine's operating system.

I'm unsure of your level of expertise, so here's a link or 3 that may
help or at least give you links to other information you may find
useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_shadow_copy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup_&_recovery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup

HTH,

Twayne

 

[David]

Hi Twayne,

Thanks for the info. I will have a look at the links.

However, I am not sure on the VSS feature...

I am currently in the wizard now and the checkbox text is...


Disable volume shadow copy
A volume shadow copy allows files to be backed up even though they are in
the process of being written to.


So, reading that, it says disable it when the checkbox is checked. Pegasus
has looked at the generated command line for the backup and suggested
/scann as a switch. Is that what checking this box does? (I will test now,
see what it changes the command line to.)

Actually, just checking that box has put the switch in, but it says
/Snap:Off


I can't create an ASR disk as I have no disk drive.

--
Best regards,
Dave Colliver.
http://www.AshfieldFOCUS.com
~~
http://www.FOCUSPortals.com - Local franchises available

 

[trehook]

It is critical to regularly back up the data (files) stored on the
hard drive(s) of your computer: If your hard drive crashes or a
situation develops that prevents you from accessing the hard drive,
the data—and your work—is lost if you don't have a back- up copy.

In general, the safest choice is to back up your critical data to an
external medium. Some popular options are CDs, USB Flash drives (i.e.,
a small removable drive that you connect to your computer using a USB
port), and Zip disks. The option you use will depend upon a number of
factors, including the amount of data you want to back up.

* If you want to back up more than 250MB of data, you will, under
most circumstances, need to back up the data to a CD (which typically
has a 650MB capacity and may need to be formatted) or to a USB Flash
drive that has the storage capacity you need (no formatting
necessary).
* If you want to back up less than 250MB of data and you have a
Zip drive that will accomodate Zip disks that can store up to 250MB of
data, you may want to use this option (no disk formatting necessary).

For instructions on how to back up data to these media, click the link
in the left-hand column that bests fits your computing environment.

http://groups.google.com/group/trevor-hook
Trevor Hook