Wn2K Random Freeze-Ups

  • Thread starter Thread starter Herb
  • Start date Start date
H

Herb

Computer locks up frequently and randomly.
Running Win 2K 5.00.2195 with Service Pack 4
All Win Updates are downloaded.
AMD Athlon processor.

Have just cleaned out all the dust as was told to try this as the dust
sometimes slows down fans (I have two fans).  But it still locks up as
stated above. Thanx for any ideas.
 
Describe exactly what "locks up" means. The more detail, the better the
help here is likely to be.

You've apparently dealt with one of several conditions that can cause
overheating, but there are many others - and many, many causes other
than overheating. And there are many things that "locks up" might mean.
 
In this case, ''lock-up'' refers to the mouse freezing and the system being
inoperative until restarting computer.  Thanx.

I've also done system error checks using System Suite by V-Com, but results
consistently show "no errors found".

-Herb
===============
 
Sorry there isn't much more to tell. Not sure what technical specifics to give
which could be helpful for analyzing -- suggestions are welcomed.

Sometimes this happens while moving the mouse; sometimes the computer is idle and
mouse (computer?) simply freezes.  Hoping someone out there has had same/similar
experience and may have a suggestion.
 
Herb - one last shot:
1. Are you certain the freeze lasts forever? If possible, let the frozen
machine sit for a long time, even overnight. If the freeze disappears
spontaneously that could be a clue. (See items 5-6 below)
2. Did the freezing start after you made ANY software or hardware mods
to the system? If so, can you undo, see if freezing stops?
3. Have you inspected Event Viewer and Device Manager for any clues?
Post any oddities you find.
4. Run the System File Checker (sfc.exe). See Start/Help or command
prompt [C:\sfc /?] for info & syntax.
5. Has the nature of these freezes changed in any way over time? Did you
notice brief hiccups (or any strangeness), then progrssively longer freezes?
6. Such freezes are often hardware-related; hence item 3 above.
Occasionally they can be caused by a hard drive problem; the OS tries a
disk access, it fails, and automatic hardware retry sequences begin and
can continue for a very long time. Often they're invisible to the OS,
which stays in a wait state because the failed access involves very
high-priority "must do" OS code. Drive manufacturers all have
downloadable disk diagnostic programs, typically a diskette image that
gives you a bootable diskette. Get and run this from the right
manufacturer. Some problems can be fixed by the diagnostic; irreparable
problems often result, after you talk with the manufacturer's tech
support, in a free replacement drive for you, with an opportunity for
you to copy your important stuff from old to new drive.
7. If this W2k was not a clean install but an in-place upgrade to some
older system, two observations: (a) clean installs are always better;
upgrades are always iffy and frequently headachy, and (b) are you
CERTAIN that ALL device drivers are W2k-specific? Drivers carried over
from older systems do NOT work with W2k.
 
Thanx for all the suggestions. I'll look into all of these -- if my system stops
locking up!!  :-)

Dan said:
Herb - one last shot:
1. Are you certain the freeze lasts forever? If possible, let the frozen
machine sit for a long time, even overnight. If the freeze disappears
spontaneously that could be a clue. (See items 5-6 below)
2. Did the freezing start after you made ANY software or hardware mods
to the system? If so, can you undo, see if freezing stops?
3. Have you inspected Event Viewer and Device Manager for any clues?
Post any oddities you find.
4. Run the System File Checker (sfc.exe). See Start/Help or command
prompt [C:\sfc /?] for info & syntax.
5. Has the nature of these freezes changed in any way over time? Did you
notice brief hiccups (or any strangeness), then progrssively longer freezes?
6. Such freezes are often hardware-related; hence item 3 above.
Occasionally they can be caused by a hard drive problem; the OS tries a
disk access, it fails, and automatic hardware retry sequences begin and
can continue for a very long time. Often they're invisible to the OS,
which stays in a wait state because the failed access involves very
high-priority "must do" OS code. Drive manufacturers all have
downloadable disk diagnostic programs, typically a diskette image that
gives you a bootable diskette. Get and run this from the right
manufacturer. Some problems can be fixed by the diagnostic; irreparable
problems often result, after you talk with the manufacturer's tech
support, in a free replacement drive for you, with an opportunity for
you to copy your important stuff from old to new drive.
7. If this W2k was not a clean install but an in-place upgrade to some
older system, two observations: (a) clean installs are always better;
upgrades are always iffy and frequently headachy, and (b) are you
CERTAIN that ALL device drivers are W2k-specific? Drivers carried over
from older systems do NOT work with W2k.
 
You're welcome, and good luck. (Stay in this thread if further
probs/info; history in one place etc.) :-)
Thanx for all the suggestions. I'll look into all of these -- if my system stops
locking up!!  :-)

Dan Seur wrote:

Herb - one last shot:
1. Are you certain the freeze lasts forever? If possible, let the frozen
machine sit for a long time, even overnight. If the freeze disappears
spontaneously that could be a clue. (See items 5-6 below)
2. Did the freezing start after you made ANY software or hardware mods
to the system? If so, can you undo, see if freezing stops?
3. Have you inspected Event Viewer and Device Manager for any clues?
Post any oddities you find.
4. Run the System File Checker (sfc.exe). See Start/Help or command
prompt [C:\sfc /?] for info & syntax.
5. Has the nature of these freezes changed in any way over time? Did you
notice brief hiccups (or any strangeness), then progrssively longer freezes?
6. Such freezes are often hardware-related; hence item 3 above.
Occasionally they can be caused by a hard drive problem; the OS tries a
disk access, it fails, and automatic hardware retry sequences begin and
can continue for a very long time. Often they're invisible to the OS,
which stays in a wait state because the failed access involves very
high-priority "must do" OS code. Drive manufacturers all have
downloadable disk diagnostic programs, typically a diskette image that
gives you a bootable diskette. Get and run this from the right
manufacturer. Some problems can be fixed by the diagnostic; irreparable
problems often result, after you talk with the manufacturer's tech
support, in a free replacement drive for you, with an opportunity for
you to copy your important stuff from old to new drive.
7. If this W2k was not a clean install but an in-place upgrade to some
older system, two observations: (a) clean installs are always better;
upgrades are always iffy and frequently headachy, and (b) are you
CERTAIN that ALL device drivers are W2k-specific? Drivers carried over
from older systems do NOT work with W2k.

Herb wrote:

Sorry there isn't much more to tell. Not sure what technical specifics to give
which could be helpful for analyzing -- suggestions are welcomed.

Sometimes this happens while moving the mouse; sometimes the computer is idle and
mouse (computer?) simply freezes.  Hoping someone out there has had same/similar
experience and may have a suggestion.

Dan Seur wrote:



I guess no more detail is forthcoming. Good luck, Herb.

Herb wrote:



In this case, ''lock-up'' refers to the mouse freezing and the system being
inoperative until restarting computer.  Thanx.

I've also done system error checks using System Suite by V-Com, but results
consistently show "no errors found".

-Herb
===============
Dan Seur wrote:




Describe exactly what "locks up" means. The more detail, the better the
help here is likely to be.

You've apparently dealt with one of several conditions that can cause
overheating, but there are many others - and many, many causes other
than overheating. And there are many things that "locks up" might mean.

Herb wrote:




Computer locks up frequently and randomly.
Running Win 2K 5.00.2195 with Service Pack 4
All Win Updates are downloaded.
AMD Athlon processor.

Have just cleaned out all the dust as was told to try this as the dust
sometimes slows down fans (I have two fans).  But it still locks up as
stated above. Thanx for any ideas.
 
WRT your questions, below:
1.  I'll try an all night freeze to see what happens.
2.  It's very hard to pinpoint when freezing began. Have added Winamp, System Suite,
Kill-Ad, 2 anti-spy programs, digital camera software.
3. Event Viewer shows dozens of errors int ehs systems log, but I don't know what they
mean. Computer has locked up a lot though recently, so maybe related to that (?)
4.  Will try #4 below.
5. Freezes have become more commonplace recently.
6. Good info; thanx.
7.  Was a clean install/new computer purchase from a reliable source.

Dan said:
Herb - one last shot:
1. Are you certain the freeze lasts forever? If possible, let the frozen
machine sit for a long time, even overnight. If the freeze disappears
spontaneously that could be a clue. (See items 5-6 below)
2. Did the freezing start after you made ANY software or hardware mods
to the system? If so, can you undo, see if freezing stops?
3. Have you inspected Event Viewer and Device Manager for any clues?
Post any oddities you find.
4. Run the System File Checker (sfc.exe). See Start/Help or command
prompt [C:\sfc /?] for info & syntax.
5. Has the nature of these freezes changed in any way over time? Did you
notice brief hiccups (or any strangeness), then progrssively longer freezes?
6. Such freezes are often hardware-related; hence item 3 above.
Occasionally they can be caused by a hard drive problem; the OS tries a
disk access, it fails, and automatic hardware retry sequences begin and
can continue for a very long time. Often they're invisible to the OS,
which stays in a wait state because the failed access involves very
high-priority "must do" OS code. Drive manufacturers all have
downloadable disk diagnostic programs, typically a diskette image that
gives you a bootable diskette. Get and run this from the right
manufacturer. Some problems can be fixed by the diagnostic; irreparable
problems often result, after you talk with the manufacturer's tech
support, in a free replacement drive for you, with an opportunity for
you to copy your important stuff from old to new drive.
7. If this W2k was not a clean install but an in-place upgrade to some
older system, two observations: (a) clean installs are always better;
upgrades are always iffy and frequently headachy, and (b) are you
CERTAIN that ALL device drivers are W2k-specific? Drivers carried over
from older systems do NOT work with W2k.
 
Herb said:
WRT your questions, below:
1. I'll try an all night freeze to see what happens.
2. It's very hard to pinpoint when freezing began. Have added Winamp, System Suite,
Kill-Ad, 2 anti-spy programs, digital camera software.
3. Event Viewer shows dozens of errors int ehs systems log, but I don't know what they
mean. Computer has locked up a lot though recently, so maybe related to that (?)
4. Will try #4 below.
5. Freezes have become more commonplace recently.
6. Good info; thanx.
7. Was a clean install/new computer purchase from a reliable source.

Dan said:
Herb - one last shot:
1. Are you certain the freeze lasts forever? If possible, let the frozen
machine sit for a long time, even overnight. If the freeze disappears
spontaneously that could be a clue. (See items 5-6 below)
2. Did the freezing start after you made ANY software or hardware mods
to the system? If so, can you undo, see if freezing stops?
3. Have you inspected Event Viewer and Device Manager for any clues?
Post any oddities you find.
4. Run the System File Checker (sfc.exe). See Start/Help or command
prompt [C:\sfc /?] for info & syntax.
5. Has the nature of these freezes changed in any way over time? Did you
notice brief hiccups (or any strangeness), then progrssively longer freezes?
6. Such freezes are often hardware-related; hence item 3 above.
Occasionally they can be caused by a hard drive problem; the OS tries a
disk access, it fails, and automatic hardware retry sequences begin and
can continue for a very long time. Often they're invisible to the OS,
which stays in a wait state because the failed access involves very
high-priority "must do" OS code. Drive manufacturers all have
downloadable disk diagnostic programs, typically a diskette image that
gives you a bootable diskette. Get and run this from the right
manufacturer. Some problems can be fixed by the diagnostic; irreparable
problems often result, after you talk with the manufacturer's tech
support, in a free replacement drive for you, with an opportunity for
you to copy your important stuff from old to new drive.
7. If this W2k was not a clean install but an in-place upgrade to some
older system, two observations: (a) clean installs are always better;
upgrades are always iffy and frequently headachy, and (b) are you
CERTAIN that ALL device drivers are W2k-specific? Drivers carried over
from older systems do NOT work with W2k.
Sorry there isn't much more to tell. Not sure what technical specifics to give
which could be helpful for analyzing -- suggestions are welcomed.

Sometimes this happens while moving the mouse; sometimes the computer is idle and
mouse (computer?) simply freezes. Hoping someone out there has had same/similar
experience and may have a suggestion.

Dan Seur wrote:


I guess no more detail is forthcoming. Good luck, Herb.

Herb wrote:


In this case, ''lock-up'' refers to the mouse freezing and the system being
inoperative until restarting computer. Thanx.

I've also done system error checks using System Suite by V-Com, but results
consistently show "no errors found".

-Herb
===============
Dan Seur wrote:



Describe exactly what "locks up" means. The more detail, the better the
help here is likely to be.

You've apparently dealt with one of several conditions that can cause
overheating, but there are many others - and many, many causes other
than overheating. And there are many things that "locks up" might mean.

Herb wrote:



Computer locks up frequently and randomly.
Running Win 2K 5.00.2195 with Service Pack 4
All Win Updates are downloaded.
AMD Athlon processor.

Have just cleaned out all the dust as was told to try this as the dust
sometimes slows down fans (I have two fans). But it still locks up as
stated above. Thanx for any ideas.

Open up your case and check/clean the crud out of ALL your
system fans (PSU, CPU, video card). You said you found only two-
most new video cards have one as well, usually a cheap sleeve
bearing POS that fails fairly quickly. PSU's sometimes have two fans-
one sucking in on the side facing "into" the guts of your PC, and
one facing the "back" of the case blwoing out.

Pull and re-insert all your PCI/AGP cards (making sure not to lose
track of where they were). Pull your memory stick(s) and re-insert.

Look for failed electrolytic caps near the CPU socket (look like little
aluminum cans). They often leak a brown goo if they're toast.

If you feel up to it, tear apart your PSU and look for failed/toasted/
stuff that looks like it got too hot. Been a buncha failed electros
there lately as well.
 
Vance - interesting. In my experience overheating and loose cards and
power supply probs normally result in unexpected power downs/BSODs, not
freezes, but always open to expanded horizons. :-)

Vance said:
WRT your questions, below:
1. I'll try an all night freeze to see what happens.
2. It's very hard to pinpoint when freezing began. Have added Winamp,

System Suite,
Kill-Ad, 2 anti-spy programs, digital camera software.
3. Event Viewer shows dozens of errors int ehs systems log, but I don't

know what they
mean. Computer has locked up a lot though recently, so maybe related to

that (?)
4. Will try #4 below.
5. Freezes have become more commonplace recently.
6. Good info; thanx.
7. Was a clean install/new computer purchase from a reliable source.

Dan Seur wrote:

Herb - one last shot:
1. Are you certain the freeze lasts forever? If possible, let the frozen
machine sit for a long time, even overnight. If the freeze disappears
spontaneously that could be a clue. (See items 5-6 below)
2. Did the freezing start after you made ANY software or hardware mods
to the system? If so, can you undo, see if freezing stops?
3. Have you inspected Event Viewer and Device Manager for any clues?
Post any oddities you find.
4. Run the System File Checker (sfc.exe). See Start/Help or command
prompt [C:\sfc /?] for info & syntax.
5. Has the nature of these freezes changed in any way over time? Did you
notice brief hiccups (or any strangeness), then progrssively longer
freezes?
6. Such freezes are often hardware-related; hence item 3 above.
Occasionally they can be caused by a hard drive problem; the OS tries a
disk access, it fails, and automatic hardware retry sequences begin and
can continue for a very long time. Often they're invisible to the OS,
which stays in a wait state because the failed access involves very
high-priority "must do" OS code. Drive manufacturers all have
downloadable disk diagnostic programs, typically a diskette image that
gives you a bootable diskette. Get and run this from the right
manufacturer. Some problems can be fixed by the diagnostic; irreparable
problems often result, after you talk with the manufacturer's tech
support, in a free replacement drive for you, with an opportunity for
you to copy your important stuff from old to new drive.
7. If this W2k was not a clean install but an in-place upgrade to some
older system, two observations: (a) clean installs are always better;
upgrades are always iffy and frequently headachy, and (b) are you
CERTAIN that ALL device drivers are W2k-specific? Drivers carried over
from older systems do NOT work with W2k.

Herb wrote:


Sorry there isn't much more to tell. Not sure what technical specifics

to give

is idle and
same/similar

being

results

the

cause

mean.

dust

as

Open up your case and check/clean the crud out of ALL your
system fans (PSU, CPU, video card). You said you found only two-
most new video cards have one as well, usually a cheap sleeve
bearing POS that fails fairly quickly. PSU's sometimes have two fans-
one sucking in on the side facing "into" the guts of your PC, and
one facing the "back" of the case blwoing out.

Pull and re-insert all your PCI/AGP cards (making sure not to lose
track of where they were). Pull your memory stick(s) and re-insert.

Look for failed electrolytic caps near the CPU socket (look like little
aluminum cans). They often leak a brown goo if they're toast.

If you feel up to it, tear apart your PSU and look for failed/toasted/
stuff that looks like it got too hot. Been a buncha failed electros
there lately as well.
 
--------------------
From: Herb <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win2000.general
Subject: Re: Wn2K Random Freeze-Ups
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 20:29:32 -0400

WRT your questions, below:
1.  I'll try an all night freeze to see what happens.
2.  It's very hard to pinpoint when freezing began. Have added Winamp, System Suite,
Kill-Ad, 2 anti-spy programs, digital camera software.
3. Event Viewer shows dozens of errors int ehs systems log, but I don't know what they
mean. Computer has locked up a lot though recently, so maybe related to that (?)
4.  Will try #4 below.
5. Freezes have become more commonplace recently.
6. Good info; thanx.
7.  Was a clean install/new computer purchase from a reliable source.
--------------------

"3. Event Viewer shows dozens of errors int ehs systems log, but I don't
know what they
mean. Computer has locked up a lot though recently, so maybe related to
that (?)"
...The system log often has THE MOST important information as to what is
going on with your sytem. Cut and paste a few of them here.

Note: If you system is "hung", you don't have to leave it overnight to make
sure that it is...a hang of more than a second is unacceptable anyways
right?

Let's look at your system log errors, and take it from there : )

--
~~ JASON HALL ~~
~ Performance Support Specialist,
~ Microsoft Enterprise Platforms Support
~ This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
~ Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at
http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm
~ Note: For the benefit of the community-at-large, all responses to this
message are best directed to the newsgroup/thread from which they
originated.
 
A sidenote: I ran ''sfc/scannnow'' and I did reinstall a bunch of stuff from
the Win2K CD of which I have no idea what it/they were.  I don't recall
computer locking up after the sfc/scannow was done in the hour or so I used it
last night. And have been on about 20 mins today w/no freezing-up--YET.

Having stated that....I've never saved an Event Log, so I hope this is correct.

Type Date Time Source Category Event User Computer
Error 5/3/2004 3:54:44 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 3:54:36 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 3:54:36 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 3:54:42 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 7:17:51 AM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 7:17:43 AM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 7:17:43 AM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 7:17:49 AM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 5:14:56 AM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 5:03:43 AM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 5:03:35 AM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 5:03:35 AM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 5:03:41 AM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 11:26:31 PM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 10:22:11 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 10:22:03 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 10:22:03 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 10:22:09 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:23:30 PM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:13:37 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:13:29 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:13:29 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:13:35 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:12:39 PM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:01:45 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:01:37 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:01:37 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:01:43 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 8:57:31 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 8:57:24 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 8:57:24 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 8:57:29 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K

==================
 
SFC may have restored some original W2k files you earlier updated with
SPs and/or MS "updates". Should you be concerned about this and redo
that updating, make sure you write down in order what you've done (and
always opt for "uninstall files"), and step-by-step make sure the
freezing hasn't started again. If it does, just uninstall whatever
caused the problem.
A sidenote: I ran ''sfc/scannnow'' and I did reinstall a bunch of stuff from
the Win2K CD of which I have no idea what it/they were.  I don't recall
computer locking up after the sfc/scannow was done in the hour or so I used it
last night. And have been on about 20 mins today w/no freezing-up--YET.

Having stated that....I've never saved an Event Log, so I hope this is correct.

Type Date Time Source Category Event User Computer
Error 5/3/2004 3:54:44 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 3:54:36 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 3:54:36 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 3:54:42 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 7:17:51 AM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 7:17:43 AM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 7:17:43 AM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 7:17:49 AM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 5:14:56 AM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 5:03:43 AM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 5:03:35 AM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/3/2004 5:03:35 AM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/3/2004 5:03:41 AM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 11:26:31 PM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 10:22:11 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 10:22:03 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 10:22:03 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 10:22:09 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:23:30 PM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:13:37 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:13:29 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:13:29 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:13:35 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:12:39 PM eventlog None 6006 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:01:45 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:01:37 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 9:01:37 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 9:01:43 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 8:57:31 PM Service Control Manager None 7002 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 8:57:24 PM eventlog None 6005 N/A WIN2K
Information 5/2/2004 8:57:24 PM eventlog None 6009 N/A WIN2K
Error 5/2/2004 8:57:29 PM Server None 2511 N/A WIN2K

==================
:
 
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