windows xp pro oem vs. windows xp pro

[Shenan Stanley]

<snip>

We all know the rules - and it is not actually a recent change in the
EULA...
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2005/09/07/461950.aspx
and linked from there and as descriptive (and more recent):
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/ar...re-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx


In the last one - read the comment under:
Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:35 AM by TechSoEasy

 

[Daave]

Ghostrider wrote:
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf

Thanks for posting that.

I guess that explains the language on the newegg.com site and Alias's
experiences.

But I find it curious that this language is only for the Microsoft OEM
system builder license. I don't believe it covers whether or not an
ordinary individual can purchase an OEM disc/license without
accompanying hardware (specifically, a CPU, motherboard, hard drive,
power supply and case!).

If Microsoft were to directly address *this* issue (and I don't
believe they have), it would certainly clear up the confusion.

Or does Microsoft consider the "ordinary person" in this situation a
system builder? If this is so, is there any language on the
disc/license that spells this out?

Again, if Microsoft wants to tie the sale (resale, I suppose) of an
OEM disc/license to the purchase of the specific hardware mentioned
above, it really should spell it out in *that particular* license (and also
on the packaging) -- and not just the license for the Microsoft System
Builder Pack.

Upon conducting further research, I am now more confused than ever!

I can see how this whole silly non-peripheral thing came about. First,
from
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000763.html :



As part of its System Builder program, Microsoft produced this official
Product Guide for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
(http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/mosb_productguide/osystem/SB_WinXPMC
E.htm ) :

System Builders must distribute each desktop operating
system unit with either a fully assembled computer system
or a nonperipheral computer hardware component.

Non-peripheral hardware? What's that? Conveniently, Microsoft has put
together a Web page that defines the term
(http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552858 ) :

What is Non-peripheral Hardware?
A non-peripheral hardware component is one essential to
running a PC

Examples of non-peripheral hardware:
Memory
Internal drives
Mice
Keyboards
Power supplies/cords

Examples of components not considered essential are:
Scanners
Printers
Cameras
External modems
Networking device

In other words, you can legally buy a copy of Windows XP Media Center
Edition (or any OEM edition of Windows XP for that matter) from any
authorized reseller as long as you buy it with a power cord. Or a mouse.
Or a keyboard. OK? That's the legal, official answer. (Note that this is
not true of OEM copies of application software, like Office, or server
software, like Microsoft Exchange. Those can only be sold with a fully
assembled computer system.)
----------------------------------------------------------

So, to make it an officially sanctioned purchase, buy a power cord (but
not a mouse) along with the OEM disc.

Then apparently, things changed in 2005:

From http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=975 :



For the past few years, OEM copies of Windows and Office have been sold
under licensing terms that are just plain silly. Yes, you could buy an
OEM copy of either product, at a substantial savings over the retail
versions, but you had to purchase a "qualifying non-peripheral computer
hardware component" with it. This resulted in the absurdity of people
buying a 99-cent cable for a power supply to make the purchase legal. It
also created lots of confusion in the marketplace

That's now changed. The new licensing rules (
http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=555857 ) (link
restricted to registered members of System Builder program) allow
resellers to distribute unopened packs of Windows and Office to any
"system builder" without requiring a trivial hardware purchase:

If you don't open the pack, you can redistribute to other
system builders without any hardware.

The new rules also specifically recognize hobbyists and PC enthusiasts
as system builders:

OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC
and server manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are
not intended for distribution to end users. Unless the
end user is actually assembling his/her own PC, in which
case, that end user is considered a system builder as well.

So, go build yourself a PC!
----------------------------------------------------------


Now, the link posted by Ghostwriter:
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf

contains this text:

By accepting this license, you agree that you are a system
builder. If you do not open this package, you may deliver
it to another system builder. "System builder" means an
original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, refurbisher,
or pre-installer of software on computer systems.

The definition has been altered, but the term "assembler" arguably
covers a hobbyist.

From the same license:

"Distribution" and "distribute" means the point in time when
a fully assembled computer system leaves the control of
system builder.

And then:

A "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system
consisting of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a
hard drive (internally mounted (Solid State) NAND and/or
internally mounted revolving magnetic-based hard drive), a
power supply, and a case.

So, here's my question:

If I build my own system, install Linux on it, then five years later
(this time frame would probably not be considered "recent" by newegg.com
standards) decide I'd like to install Windows XP on it, I should be able
to purchase an OEM installation disk *without* purchasing hardware as
long as I maintain control of the system!

I never understood what the big deal was (that is, needing to buy
hardware). The OEM license is tied to the PC I install it on. That is
why it's cheaper than a retail version.

But why all the confusion? Why can't Microsoft just state what its
policy is on this matter?! Until that happens, there's just speculation
and interpretation.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

We all know the rules - and it is not actually a recent change in the
EULA...
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2005/09/07/461950.aspx
and linked from there and as descriptive (and more recent):
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/ar...re-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx


In the last one - read the comment under:
Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:35 AM by TechSoEasy

 

[dobey]

We all know the rules - and it is not actually a recent change in the
EULA...
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2005/09/07/461950.aspx
and linked from there and as descriptive (and more recent):
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/ar...re-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx


In the last one - read the comment under:
Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:35 AM by TechSoEasy

ROFL, that's hilarious - so you can't buy XP OEM with a mouse anymore.

You just buy the unopened "OEM system builder software pack" with no
hardware at all.

I'm sure we all know pirated software doesn't come in real boxes with real
DVDs.

 

[GHalleck]

Upon conducting further research, I am now more confused than ever!

I can see how this whole silly non-peripheral thing came about. First,
from
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000763.html :



As part of its System Builder program, Microsoft produced this official
Product Guide for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
(http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/mosb_productguide/osystem/SB_WinXPMC
E.htm ) :




Non-peripheral hardware? What's that? Conveniently, Microsoft has put
together a Web page that defines the term
(http://oem.microsoft.com/script/ContentPage.aspx?pageid=552858 ) :




In other words, you can legally buy a copy of Windows XP Media Center
Edition (or any OEM edition of Windows XP for that matter) from any
authorized reseller as long as you buy it with a power cord. Or a mouse.
Or a keyboard. OK? That's the legal, official answer. (Note that this is
not true of OEM copies of application software, like Office, or server
software, like Microsoft Exchange. Those can only be sold with a fully
assembled computer system.)
----------------------------------------------------------

So, to make it an officially sanctioned purchase, buy a power cord (but
not a mouse) along with the OEM disc.

Then apparently, things changed in 2005:

From http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=975 :



For the past few years, OEM copies of Windows and Office have been sold
under licensing terms that are just plain silly. Yes, you could buy an
OEM copy of either product, at a substantial savings over the retail
versions, but you had to purchase a "qualifying non-peripheral computer
hardware component" with it. This resulted in the absurdity of people
buying a 99-cent cable for a power supply to make the purchase legal. It
also created lots of confusion in the marketplace

That's now changed. The new licensing rules (
http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentPage.aspx?pageid=555857 ) (link
restricted to registered members of System Builder program) allow
resellers to distribute unopened packs of Windows and Office to any
"system builder" without requiring a trivial hardware purchase:




The new rules also specifically recognize hobbyists and PC enthusiasts
as system builders:




So, go build yourself a PC!
----------------------------------------------------------


Now, the link posted by Ghostwriter:
http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/2007_SB_Licenses/FY07_SB_License_English.pdf

contains this text:




The definition has been altered, but the term "assembler" arguably
covers a hobbyist.

From the same license:




And then:




So, here's my question:

If I build my own system, install Linux on it, then five years later
(this time frame would probably not be considered "recent" by newegg.com
standards) decide I'd like to install Windows XP on it, I should be able
to purchase an OEM installation disk *without* purchasing hardware as
long as I maintain control of the system!

I never understood what the big deal was (that is, needing to buy
hardware). The OEM license is tied to the PC I install it on. That is
why it's cheaper than a retail version.

But why all the confusion? Why can't Microsoft just state what its
policy is on this matter?! Until that happens, there's just speculation
and interpretation.

The catch to all of this is who is entitled to buy the original System
Builder Pack, break it open and sell the OEM copy. The loophole that the
DIY'er or hobbyist is a "builder" has been, more or less, eliminated by
the System Builder Pack packaging. And this is the bind that Newegg and
other distributors found themslves. It's akin to the story of who can buy
(or, actually, be sold) a Volume License Kit. If one had a business (or
corporate tax ID) license, the reputable dealers would sell the Kit.
Regrettably, Microsoft is, indeed, stating its policies more clearer.

 

[Daave]

The catch to all of this is who is entitled to buy the original System
Builder Pack, break it open and sell the OEM copy. The loophole that
the
DIY'er or hobbyist is a "builder" has been, more or less, eliminated
by
the System Builder Pack packaging. And this is the bind that Newegg
and
other distributors found themslves.

So if John Q. Public wants to purchase a generic OEM installation disk
for XP, he needs to find some entity to break open a System Builder
pack? Aren't there standalone copies?

 

[Daave]

We all know the rules - and it is not actually a recent change in the
EULA...
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2005/09/07/461950.aspx
and linked from there and as descriptive (and more recent):
http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/ar...re-alliance-about-buying-software-online.aspx


In the last one - read the comment under:
Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:35 AM by TechSoEasy

Thanks for the links. And yes, that's the same conclusion I arrived at:

The accepted way for John Q. Public to obtain a generic OEM XP
installation disc/license is to purchase "one-pack" system builder
package. And, yes, John Q. Public *is* considered a system builder:

<quote>
OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC and server
manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are not intended for distribution
to end users. Unless the end user is actually assembling his/her own PC,
in which case, that end user is considered a system builder as well.
</quote>

So, John Q. Public *doesn't* need to purchase a "fully assembled
computer system."

However, my scenario still hasn't been addressed:

I have a five-year old PC with Linux installed and decide I want to
install XP. Technically, since I am not assembling my own PC (it's
already assembled!), I am unable to purchase an OEM copy of XP. And
according to the information cited above, Newegg isn't permitted to sell
me a copy unless:

1. it's on a fully assembled computer system, or

2. they recognize me as a system builder who will be assembling my own
PC (thus their disclaimer that I need "recent receipts showing the
purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU." Now, it makes
sense!

So, if I want to purchase an OEM copy (and assuming it will be installed
on an old PC), I need to find retailer other than Newegg who effectively
declines to do any policing for Microsoft, that is, a retailer who will
recognize me as a system builder but doesn't demand receipts. Arguably,
I'm not technically permitted to purchase an OEM disk (if I'm not
assembling a new PC). But I am still able to do so.

Finally, I wonder if Newegg actually *requires* these receipts, or if
they just include this language in the disclaimer to cover their own
butts.

 

[Alias]

Thanks for the links. And yes, that's the same conclusion I arrived at:

The accepted way for John Q. Public to obtain a generic OEM XP
installation disc/license is to purchase "one-pack" system builder
package. And, yes, John Q. Public *is* considered a system builder:

<quote>
OEM system builder software packs are intended for PC and server
manufacturers or assemblers ONLY. They are not intended for distribution
to end users. Unless the end user is actually assembling his/her own PC,
in which case, that end user is considered a system builder as well.
</quote>

So, John Q. Public *doesn't* need to purchase a "fully assembled
computer system."

However, my scenario still hasn't been addressed:

I have a five-year old PC with Linux installed and decide I want to
install XP. Technically, since I am not assembling my own PC (it's
already assembled!), I am unable to purchase an OEM copy of XP. And
according to the information cited above, Newegg isn't permitted to sell
me a copy unless:

1. it's on a fully assembled computer system, or

2. they recognize me as a system builder who will be assembling my own
PC (thus their disclaimer that I need "recent receipts showing the
purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU." Now, it makes
sense!

So, if I want to purchase an OEM copy (and assuming it will be installed
on an old PC), I need to find retailer other than Newegg who effectively
declines to do any policing for Microsoft, that is, a retailer who will
recognize me as a system builder but doesn't demand receipts. Arguably,
I'm not technically permitted to purchase an OEM disk (if I'm not
assembling a new PC). But I am still able to do so.

Finally, I wonder if Newegg actually *requires* these receipts, or if
they just include this language in the disclaimer to cover their own butts.

Why don't you pick up the phone and call their toll free number and find
out? I know in Spain, you cannot buy a generic OEM copy of *anything*
OEM Windows without buying a CPU, hard drive, RAM and motherboard. The
reason I know is that I personally visited the major computer chains
here and ASKED!

I have a feeling that MS is trying to get rid of hobbyists and only sell
to those who buy their computers with Windows preinstalled.

 

[Ghostrider]

So if John Q. Public wants to purchase a generic OEM installation disk
for XP, he needs to find some entity to break open a System Builder
pack? Aren't there standalone copies?

Nope...not when they are distributed to the OEM-seller/dealer. Once the
pack is opened, the OEM installation disk can be sold as single units.
The seller is bound by the agreement of the System Builder Pack.

 

[Daave]

Nope...not when they are distributed to the OEM-seller/dealer.

Actually, I did some digging around. Apparently there do exist
standalone copies. However, they are still considered System Builder
packs (even if it's just a 1-pack!):

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Professional-System-Builders/dp/B000GWLTRU

And as I posted elsewhere in this thread, a qualifying "non-peripheral"
hardware purchase is no longer necessary to purchase this System Builder
1-pack. But there is a paradox:

In order to purchase it, you must be a system builder, even if you are
building just one system. So, *technically*, you're not allowed to
purchase it if your intention is to install it on an older PC. But
somehow I doubt Microsoft can enforce that!

 

[Ghostrider]

Actually, I did some digging around. Apparently there do exist
standalone copies. However, they are still considered System Builder
packs (even if it's just a 1-pack!):

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Professional-System-Builders/dp/B000GWLTRU

And as I posted elsewhere in this thread, a qualifying "non-peripheral"
hardware purchase is no longer necessary to purchase this System Builder
1-pack. But there is a paradox:

In order to purchase it, you must be a system builder, even if you are
building just one system. So, *technically*, you're not allowed to
purchase it if your intention is to install it on an older PC. But
somehow I doubt Microsoft can enforce that!

The Amazon price is higher than Newegg's. And this sale obviously is just
transferring the System Builder Pack to you along with all of the legal
rigmarole. Right...but who's looking at what you do with it?

Better still, shop around. There are some sellers who still stock the
older single copy, "for new PC" OEM versions, not bound to the System
Builders agreement. They will ship with qualifying hardware such as a
SIMM, etc.