Windows XP PC question

[Ken Blake]

In

Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions written
on their
BIOS chip?

No, they never did.

I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP
on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?

Sure, if you install DOS after wiping out XP, or boot to a
floppy. If you just remove the operating system from the hard
drive and try to boot from, it won't boot at all.

The easiest way to try it is to boot to a DOS diskette.

Most
PC people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS
below its
OS like Windows 98

That's correct (2000, XP, and all previous versions of Windows
NT) , but irrelevant to your question.

or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip

That's also correct, but it's misleading because it implies that
they once did. DOS is booted from a disk drive (hard drive or
diskette).

but I do not believe it. I have not tried inserting a DOS boot
floppy, and testing it for myself.

Try it. It's easy enough. It's completely unrelated to what
operating system is installed on the hard drive: DOS will boot
from the floppy. Depending on what file system the hard drive
uses, you may or may not be able to access the hard drive, but
that has nothing to with whether DOS will boot.

In my 98 machine I can boot from
a floppy, wipe out the hard drive, partition and then do a
format C:
/s and the machine will boot with only DOS. I wonder if XP
works the
same.

Asking whether XP works the same is missing the point that XP's
presence or absence on the hard drive is irrelevant to the issue.
If you boot to a floppy, XP (or whatever operating system is on
the hard drive) isn't loaded and isn't there.

However if you boot to a floppy, it works exactly the same as it
used to, except for the slight complication if the hard drive is
NTFS. You have to use FDISK to remove the non-DOS partition, then
create a new one.

 

[Ken Blake]

In

I do not have extensive use on a XP os in such technical
natures. But
are you saying that in XP I can boot from my DOS floppy thats
pre XP?
I have Window 98 boot floppies.

I don't want to state what someone else is saying, but please
understand that the way you're asking the question shows that
you're missing the point.

Yes, you can boot from your DOS floppy that's pre-XP. No, you're
not doing that *in* XP.

When you boot from a floppy, there's no XP involved. What
operating system is installed on the hard drive is irrelevant.
Whether there's *anything* on the hard drive is irrelevant.
Whether a hard drive is even *present* is irrelevant. You're
booting the operating system that's on the floppy and that's all
there is.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

 

[John]

Thanks. Sorry I misspoke I said DOS, but I should have said a CLI. The
mode looks allot like DOS, so I assumed it was DOS, but aparantly I have
to be very pricise when speaking to people in this industry, they take
everything literaly. If I asked "How can I access a DOOS prompt from
Windows XP?" they would get confused. I should check my posts more
often, as one misque can cause much confusion as the above statement
would.

The fact that Windows XP needs a CLI for recovery does tells me that its
not a 100% pure GUI as the pre Mac OS X system was.

This answered my question. Thanks


John

 

[HillBillyBuddhist]

| In article <[email protected]>,
|

| Sorry I misspoke. What is the command prompt you get when you do a
| format C: /s? Is that not DOS? If not what is it? I can run DOS apps
| with it bye the way. If thats not DOS then I am confused as to what is.
| On every PC I have used, I get that command prompt if I do two things.
|
| 1) Run Fdisk from a floppy
| 2) Run format from a floppy
|
|
| It appears that whatever this is, if its not DOS (yet you can run dos
| apps) is already loaded in memory.
| Maybe I am right. I was told by another that if I did several things.
|
| 1) Booted from a DOS boot floppy
| 2) Ran fdisk and deleted all partitions, and then created partitions
| 3) Ran format C: /s
|
| I would get a command prompt. Can you test it? If this is true, and I
| do copy DOS .exe's to the C:/ drive from the floppy they can be run.
| This tells me that DOS runs before Windows XP.

Your original statement "Most PC people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not
have any DOS below its OS like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on
its ROM BIOS chip but I do not believe it." continues to be incorrect.

All of the scenarios you've mentioned take Windows XP completely out of the
picture.

If you format the drive with the /s switch you've completely erased XP and
loaded the DOS system files, (command.com and io.sys) onto the harddrive.
This will make the drive bootable and will allow the execution of simple DOS
programs. DOS is not "running under" Windows XP because Windows XP is gone
it's running *instead* of Windows XP.

If you boot from a floppy disk the same files load into memory from the
floppy disk ignoring the harddrive and whatever operating system may be on
it. Again you're running DOS *instead* of XP.

You can also get a Command prompt on a PC with no harddrive installed at all
using a floppy disk as was the method of running a PC prior to the advent of
hard disk drives. Obviously, again, this is not "running under" Windows XP.

If your original question had been "will a modern PC run MS-DOS?" then the
answer would be yes. If however the question continues to be, does Windows
XP run "on top of MS-DOS" like it's 9x predecessors then the answer
continues to be no.

--
D

I'm not an MVP a VIP nor do I have ESP.
I was just trying to help.
Please use your own best judgment before implementing any suggestions or
advice herein.
No warranty is expressed or implied.
Your mileage may vary.
See store for details.

Remove shoes to E-mail.

 

[JerryMouse]

Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions written on their
BIOS chip?

Once upon a time there were SOME DOS commands imbedded in chips manufactured
by IBM. That silliness has been gone for many years.

I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP
on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?

Not without installing DOS.

Most
PC people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its
OS like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip
but I do not believe it.

Must be a lonely religion, what you believe.

I have not tried inserting a DOS boot
floppy, and testing it for myself. In my 98 machine I can boot from
a floppy, wipe out the hard drive, partition and then do a format C:
/s and the machine will boot with only DOS.

"Format" is a DOS command. You must be running DOS to be able to invoke
Format, which you were when you booted from a floppy.

I wonder if XP works the
same.

No, of course not. You can't boot XP from a floppy. The system is too big to
fit on a floppy.

I guess my main comparison would be the classic Mac OS which is full
GUI and no command prompt. On my Mac for exmaple, I can wipe out the
hard drive with my boot CD, and then install the boot files with the
CD and the Mac boots into a GUI. I doubt XP is a full GUI and does
not have command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong.

You are wrong. XP is a full GUI system. XP is descended from the NT, W2K
family tree. They never had DOS as an underlying system.

I doubt PC's can ever move away from any DOS instructions in their
ROM BIOS, but maybe I am wrong.

No BIOS manufacturer has put DOS commands in its BIOS in ten years - most
BIOSes never had them.

 

[Alex Nichol]

Thanks. I figured that people would not take everything literally, but
I should have said "command prompt".

But it appears my question has been answered. No PC is totally clear of
a command prompt. Wipe out a PC and you get a command prompt at the
top. Wipe out a Macintosh (pre OSX) and you get a GUI at the top. Wipe
out a Windows CE (handheldPC, not PocketPC os) and you get a GUI at the
top in ROM.

No. If you have a PC with just a brand new (but formatted) hard disk
and boot it you will only get a message from BIOS about no system. You
will *not* get any prompt at all. Macs have a basic part of their OS in
ROM, PCs do not

 

[Yves Leclerc]

You can not! You can get CMD to open a "DOS" Window where you can use most
DOS commands. It is not a complete DOS interface but an emulator.

 

[Tim Slattery]

You can not! You can get CMD to open a "DOS" Window where you can use most
DOS commands. It is not a complete DOS interface but an emulator.

It's neither a DOS interface nor an emulator. It's a 32-bit command
console. It runs 32-bit console apps, and can also handle 16-bit DOS
apps, subject to XP's rules about direct hardware access, etc.

 

[Bob I]

I believe you are thinking of ROM-BASIC?

Once upon a time there were SOME DOS commands imbedded in chips manufactured
by IBM. That silliness has been gone for many years.