Windows XP PC question

[John]

Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions written on their
BIOS chip? I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP
on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt? Most PC
people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS
like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I
do not believe it. I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and
testing it for myself. In my 98 machine I can boot from a floppy, wipe
out the hard drive, partition and then do a format C: /s and the machine
will boot with only DOS. I wonder if XP works the same.

I guess my main comparison would be the classic Mac OS which is full GUI
and no command prompt. On my Mac for exmaple, I can wipe out the hard
drive with my boot CD, and then install the boot files with the CD and
the Mac boots into a GUI. I doubt XP is a full GUI and does not have
command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong. I doubt
PC's can ever move away from any DOS instructions in their ROM BIOS, but
maybe I am wrong.


John

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

A BIOS does not have DOS instructions - it is indenpendent of
the operating system. You can easily prove this: Disconnect the
hard disk, then reboot the system. The BIOS will still work but
you certainly won't get a DOS prompt!

To get to a plain DOS prompt, you need to boot your machine
with a Win98 boot disk from www.bootdisk.com. If you then
wish to remove WinXP then you can run fdisk.exe and remove
all existing partitions.

A better way would be to boot your PC with your WinXP CD,
then allow the disk to be repartitioned when prompted.

 

[Ross Durie]

DOS consisted of io.sys, msdos.sys, command.com and other files for external
commands. Why do you think of DOS as being something residing in the BIOS
when it didn't.

XP has a shell prompt or console as does Linux, e.g., bash, csh etc., but
this environment is not coded in the BIOS.

 

[Ross Durie]

On second thoughts I think your mother has failed to educate you on more
than sex education. Find a 12 year old girl and she should put you right re:
what the BIOS does and what the operating system does.

P.S. Your comments are truely the biggest load of twaddle I've ever read on
this newsgroup.

 

[Michael Stevens]

Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions written on their
BIOS chip? I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP
on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt? Most
PC people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its
OS like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip
but I do not believe it. I have not tried inserting a DOS boot
floppy, and testing it for myself. In my 98 machine I can boot from
a floppy, wipe out the hard drive, partition and then do a format C:
/s and the machine will boot with only DOS. I wonder if XP works the
same.

I guess my main comparison would be the classic Mac OS which is full
GUI and no command prompt. On my Mac for exmaple, I can wipe out the
hard drive with my boot CD, and then install the boot files with the
CD and the Mac boots into a GUI. I doubt XP is a full GUI and does
not have command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong.
I doubt PC's can ever move away from any DOS instructions in their
ROM BIOS, but maybe I am wrong.


John

The BIOS has nothing to do with the installed OS.
XP does not have DOS, but you can boot from a floppy disk formatted as
MS-DOS and run commands. MS-DOS will have limited access depending on the
hard drive or partition file system. If the hard drive or partition are
non-dos partitions, the only thing you can do with the MS-DOS floppy disk is
run fdisk to delete the NON-DOS partition.
Note that the MS-DOS disk created from XP format does not contain fdisk or
format, it is a minimal boot disk suited for flashing BIOS.
--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[HillBillyBuddhist]

| Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions written on their
| BIOS chip?

No PCs have "DOS instructions written on their BIOS chip." DOS is an
operating system. The BIOS is in charge of what the computer can do with
it's hardware *without* an operating system.

|I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP
| on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?

Of course but, this has nothing to do with Windows XP or the computers BIOS.
Whatever DOS prompt you wind up at will be because you have loaded some
Operating System into memory.

The BIOS on it's own will not provide a command prompt. Likewise Windows XP
has no "Command Prompt Only" option because it's not available.

| people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS
| like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I
| do not believe it.

You've misunderstood. The BIOS is irrelevant in this regard and doesn't know
or care what operating system is present. It merely bootstraps the computer
with enough information to hand control over to a disk or disc drive where
whatever operating system that is present takes over.

It is correct that Windows XP is *not* like 9x/ME in that there is no
underlying MS-[D]isk [O]perating ystem.

|I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and
| testing it for myself. In my 98 machine I can boot from a floppy, wipe
| out the hard drive, partition and then do a format C: /s and the machine
| will boot with only DOS.

You can. The drive is likely formatted using the NTFS File System which
cannot be accessed from a 9x boot floppy. Once the non-DOS partition(s) are
removed, DOS partitions created and marked active and you /s the drive it
will boot to a command prompt.

|I wonder if XP works the same.

Irrelevant. You completely removed Windows XP in the previous step, it
doesn't "work" at all, it's gone.

|I doubt XP is a full GUI and does not have
| command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong. I doubt
| PC's can ever move away from any DOS instructions in their ROM BIOS, but
| maybe I am wrong.

You are. Don't feel bad. I'm wrong several times a day. (which my children
delight in pointing out.)

--
D

I'm not an MVP a VIP nor do I have ESP.
I was just trying to help.
Please use your own best judgment before implementing any suggestions or
advice herein.
No warranty is expressed or implied.
Your mileage may vary.
See store for details.

Remove shoes to E-mail.

 

[Alex Nichol]

Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions written on their
BIOS chip? I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP
on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt? Most PC
people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS
like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I
do not believe it. I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and
testing it for myself.

A BIOS ROM chip does not have any DOS instructions. It provided for
support of BIOS interrupts, according to the standard PC spec and that
is all. There is no such thing as a ROM chip for *any* windows - the
BIOS does a boot from (usually) the specified Hard disk and Windows
Loader there takes over. And XP hardly accesses the BIOS interrupts at
all

XP - like other NT machines before - does not have any DOS code at all.
You can boot to a DOS like Safe mode Command Prompt, but that is a basic
32 bit XP supporting similar commands to DOS - not DOS.

You can boot a DOS floppy like a Win98 startup floppy - on any machine
if you set to boot floppy before Hard disk. That then is true DOS, but
note that it has no knowledge of the NTFS file system and will not 'see'
an NTFS disk if XP is installed on one

 

[Richard Urban]

Maybe you're a TROLL!

--

Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew half as much as you think you know,
You'd realize you didn't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Mike Hall]

John

Your beliefs are going to make your overall computing experience very
difficult over time.. partitioning and formatting a drive does NOT put DOS
on any computer.. what you get are basic DOS commands that enable access to
the drive.. DOS as an operating system has to be installed like any other
OS.. it comes on multiple diskettes..

Windows early versions were designed to run on top of DOS.. a version of DOS
had to be installed before Windows 3, 3.1, 3.11 could be installed.. Win 95,
98, and ME automatically did that for you.. NT, W2k, XP do NOT load on top
of DOS.. you do, however, get a 'command prompt' that does allow LIMITED
access to some DOS commands.. it is by no means a full DOS installation..

And Linux is not DOS either..

DOS is not just text on a black or green screen.. it is an operating
system.. the BIOS has nothing whatsoever to do with DOS.. the fact that it
is text on a black screen does not make it DOS.. you really do need to read
up on computers, or consider taking up another hobby..

The content of your post is just like the myths and stupidity that chatroom
computer experts put out.. the scary thing is that others listen to them..

Mike Hall..

 

[Mike Hall]

and a stupid troll at that..

Maybe you're a TROLL!

--

Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew half as much as you think you know,
You'd realize you didn't know what you thought you knew!

 

[John]

John

Your beliefs are going to make your overall computing experience very
difficult over time.. partitioning and formatting a drive does NOT put DOS
on any computer.. what you get are basic DOS commands that enable access to
the drive.. DOS as an operating system has to be installed like any other
OS.. it comes on multiple diskettes..

Windows early versions were designed to run on top of DOS.. a version of DOS
had to be installed before Windows 3, 3.1, 3.11 could be installed.. Win 95,
98, and ME automatically did that for you.. NT, W2k, XP do NOT load on top
of DOS.. you do, however, get a 'command prompt' that does allow LIMITED
access to some DOS commands.. it is by no means a full DOS installation..

Sorry I misspoke. It was the command prompt which ran on top. But this
is DOS instructions. Funny you say its not DOS, yet I can run DOS apps
from a floppy.

And Linux is not DOS either..

DOS is not just text on a black or green screen.. it is an operating
system.. the BIOS has nothing whatsoever to do with DOS.. the fact that it
is text on a black screen does not make it DOS.. you really do need to read
up on computers, or consider taking up another hobby..

The content of your post is just like the myths and stupidity that chatroom
computer experts put out.. the scary thing is that others listen to them..

Mike Hall..

Well you are both right and wrong. I misspoke. The OS dos is not the
command prompt you get after a format, but you can run DOS apps from a
floppy. explain this.

 

[John]

Thanks. I figured that people would not take everything literally, but
I should have said "command prompt".

But it appears my question has been answered. No PC is totally clear of
a command prompt. Wipe out a PC and you get a command prompt at the
top. Wipe out a Macintosh (pre OSX) and you get a GUI at the top. Wipe
out a Windows CE (handheldPC, not PocketPC os) and you get a GUI at the
top in ROM.

I wanted to know if newer PC's with Windows XP were as much of a GUI
based computer as the original macintosh OS before OSX, and they are
not. To perform advanced disk editing tasks still requires the booting
into a DOS like prompt, where in the Mac this is never the case, as its
all done in a GUI.

Thanks


John

 

[Richard Urban]

Again, read a bit. A floppy can be created that installs the basic DOS
operating system (during boot) so you can do certain things - like flash a
computer bios!

--

Regards:

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew half as much as you think you know,
You'd realize you didn't know what you thought you knew!

 

[John]

| Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions written on their
| BIOS chip?

No PCs have "DOS instructions written on their BIOS chip." DOS is an
operating system. The BIOS is in charge of what the computer can do with
it's hardware *without* an operating system.

Sorry I misspoke. What is the command prompt you get when you do a
format C: /s? Is that not DOS? If not what is it? I can run DOS apps
with it bye the way. If thats not DOS then I am confused as to what is.

|I have not tried it yet, but is it possible to wipe out XP
| on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain DOS prompt?

Of course but, this has nothing to do with Windows XP or the computers BIOS.
Whatever DOS prompt you wind up at will be because you have loaded some
Operating System into memory.

On every PC I have used, I get that command prompt if I do two things.

1) Run Fdisk from a floppy
2) Run format from a floppy


It appears that whatever this is, if its not DOS (yet you can run dos
apps) is already loaded in memory.

The BIOS on it's own will not provide a command prompt. Likewise Windows XP
has no "Command Prompt Only" option because it's not available.

| people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any DOS below its OS
| like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its ROM BIOS chip but I
| do not believe it.

You've misunderstood. The BIOS is irrelevant in this regard and doesn't know
or care what operating system is present. It merely bootstraps the computer
with enough information to hand control over to a disk or disc drive where
whatever operating system that is present takes over.

It is correct that Windows XP is *not* like 9x/ME in that there is no
underlying MS-[D]isk [O]perating ystem.

|I have not tried inserting a DOS boot floppy, and
| testing it for myself. In my 98 machine I can boot from a floppy, wipe
| out the hard drive, partition and then do a format C: /s and the machine
| will boot with only DOS.

You can. The drive is likely formatted using the NTFS File System which
cannot be accessed from a 9x boot floppy. Once the non-DOS partition(s) are
removed, DOS partitions created and marked active and you /s the drive it
will boot to a command prompt.

Thanks. I have not used XP in such a way. I know that on a pre XP
system, I do nt have to follow the above.

|I wonder if XP works the same.

Irrelevant. You completely removed Windows XP in the previous step, it
doesn't "work" at all, it's gone.

|I doubt XP is a full GUI and does not have
| command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am wrong. I doubt
| PC's can ever move away from any DOS instructions in their ROM BIOS, but
| maybe I am wrong.

You are. Don't feel bad. I'm wrong several times a day. (which my children
delight in pointing out.)

Maybe I am right. I was told by another that if I did several things.

1) Booted from a DOS boot floppy
2) Ran fdisk and deleted all partitions, and then created partitions
3) Ran format C: /s

I would get a command prompt. Can you test it? If this is true, and I
do copy DOS .exe's to the C:/ drive from the floppy they can be run.
This tells me that DOS runs before Windows XP.

 

[John]

I do not have extensive use on a XP os in such technical natures. But
are you saying that in XP I can boot from my DOS floppy thats pre XP? I
have Window 98 boot floppies.

John

 

[John]

DOS consisted of io.sys, msdos.sys, command.com and other files for external
commands. Why do you think of DOS as being something residing in the BIOS
when it didn't.

XP has a shell prompt or console as does Linux, e.g., bash, csh etc., but
this environment is not coded in the BIOS.

Thnaks...


But is a XP machine as much of a pre GUI as the Macintosh (pre OSX)? I
was told on a PC one needs to go to DOS to perform advanced disk editing
chores, or advanced registry restore chores, in cases where the OS will
not load. I always wondered. On my current PC I have to boot into DOS
when I need to run my disk editor.


John

 

[John]

Thanks for your help. But tell me on newer PC's do you need to boot to
a DOS prompt (or whatever its technically called) when performing
advanced disk editing chores? How about if your os is not bootable?
Someone told me a story of a time when his XP machine could not boot, so
he had to boot into a command prompt (its not technically called dos,
but it looks like dos) and run a registry fix or restore from the floppy
to get it back.

I always wondered if the newer XP machines were as much of a pre GUI as
the macintosh was. I could never get a straight answer out of PC techs,
because very few had extensive knowledge of the mac. Most if they ever
used a Mac, did not use it for such techie uses. I've been working on
Macs for a long time. I've done far more than thus type a paper, or
browse the Internet.


John

 

[GTS]

The DOS like prompt you're describing is called the Recovery Console. It
can be entered by booting from a Windows XP CD and pressing R at a point
where prompts show that option. It can also be installed as a boot option
on the hard drive, accessible by pressing F8 to get the boot menu during
startup (like for safe mode). The RC is useful for certain kinds of
repairs when the OS won't boot.

The MAC has always had a lot more functionality based in the BIOS than the
Intel based PC. I think you're assuming that more of the functionality of
DOS was in the PC BIOS than is the case. There is very little that you can
do directly with a PC's BIOS outside of an operating system. A PC can
still be booted from a true DOS disk, but it is not very useful because of
the lack of long file name support and inability to work with NTFS formatted
drives. A Recovery Console or command prompt only boot is the closest
equivalent today.
--

 

[Jim Macklin]

XP does not have DOS, it does support a command line
interface and the commands do look a lot like DOS, but if
you compare the syntax and the supported commands they are
different from DOS.
To see the XP commands open the commands window (Start/Run
cmd) then type help /?



--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


| In article <[email protected]>,
|
| > John
| >
| > Your beliefs are going to make your overall computing
experience very
| > difficult over time.. partitioning and formatting a
drive does NOT put DOS
| > on any computer.. what you get are basic DOS commands
that enable access to
| SNIP

 

[Jim Macklin]

In XP you can open a command line window (cmd.exe) from the
Run menu or you can boot the CD to the recovery console.
You can even install the recovery console as a dual boot
option.
see
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307654

You can boot a DOS bootable floppy or even a CD with Linux
or some other x86 OS, that happens before Windows loads.

You can have two or more OS in a dual (multi-boot) system.

But if Windows XP is booted and running it is not using DOS.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


--
Merry Christmas
Have a Safe and Happy New Year
Live Long and Prosper

| Thanks for your help. But tell me on newer PC's do you
need to boot to
| a DOS prompt (or whatever its technically called) when
performing
| advanced disk editing chores? How about if your os is not
bootable?
| Someone told me a story of a time when his XP machine
could not boot, so
| he had to boot into a command prompt (its not technically
called dos,
| but it looks like dos) and run a registry fix or restore
from the floppy
| to get it back.
|
| I always wondered if the newer XP machines were as much of
a pre GUI as
| the macintosh was. I could never get a straight answer
out of PC techs,
| because very few had extensive knowledge of the mac. Most
if they ever
| used a Mac, did not use it for such techie uses. I've
been working on
| Macs for a long time. I've done far more than thus type a
paper, or
| browse the Internet.
|
|
| John
|
|
| In article <[email protected]>,
|
| > A BIOS does not have DOS instructions - it is
indenpendent of
| > the operating system. You can easily prove this:
Disconnect the
| > hard disk, then reboot the system. The BIOS will still
work but
| > you certainly won't get a DOS prompt!
| >
| > To get to a plain DOS prompt, you need to boot your
machine
| > with a Win98 boot disk from www.bootdisk.com. If you
then
| > wish to remove WinXP then you can run fdisk.exe and
remove
| > all existing partitions.
| >
| > A better way would be to boot your PC with your WinXP
CD,
| > then allow the disk to be repartitioned when prompted.
| >
| >
| >
| > > Do newer PC's yes with XP still have DOS instructions
written on their
| > > BIOS chip? I have not tried it yet, but is it
possible to wipe out XP
| > > on a newer Dell or whatever and get back to a plain
DOS prompt? Most PC
| > > people claim that XP/2000 whatever does not have any
DOS below its OS
| > > like Windows 98 or have any DOS instructions on its
ROM BIOS chip but I
| > > do not believe it. I have not tried inserting a DOS
boot floppy, and
| > > testing it for myself. In my 98 machine I can boot
from a floppy, wipe
| > > out the hard drive, partition and then do a format C:
/s and the machine
| > > will boot with only DOS. I wonder if XP works the
same.
| > >
| > > I guess my main comparison would be the classic Mac OS
which is full GUI
| > > and no command prompt. On my Mac for exmaple, I can
wipe out the hard
| > > drive with my boot CD, and then install the boot files
with the CD and
| > > the Mac boots into a GUI. I doubt XP is a full GUI and
does not have
| > > command prompt instructions in BIOS, but perhaps I am
wrong. I doubt
| > > PC's can ever move away from any DOS instructions in
their ROM BIOS, but
| > > maybe I am wrong.
| > >
| > >
| > > John
| >
| >