Windows MCE and Remote Wonder

[Bill Anderson]

Over the past month or so I've been trying to make Windows MCE recognize
my AIW 9600XT as a valid tuner/set top box, and I've had some success.
In fact I think I'm almost there, with only one more major hurdle to cross.

First thing I did was clean install Windows MCE into a spare partition.
I can boot into MCE any time I like, keeping a full untouched WinXP
partition as my default OS. So I play with this little problem off and
on whenever I feel like it. And whenever I screw things up too bad, I
just Ghost a backup of a pristine Windows MCE installation into the
partition and start over from scratch.

Using the Windows MCE drivers from the ATI site, I can get Windows MCE
to see the AIW tuner and display video and audio in the TV setup
routine. But that's as far as I can get.

Part of the MCE setup routine is to recognize a remote control. The
problem is that after I get MCE to see TV on Channel 4 and also S-Video,
the setup routine looks for a remote unit and can't find one. And
that's the end of setup.

Now at different times I've installed both a Remote Wonder and a Remote
Wonder II. I've had them working fine. In fact, I've run the MCE TV
installation routine making all selections *USING THE REMOTE!* But MCE
says it can't see a remote and stops the installation at that point.
The error is (paraphrasing) "No IR Hardware Found."

"Well a Remote Wonder isn't IR," I thought, "so maybe that's why this
isn't working."

So I went looking on the Internet and found websites that explained how
to make MCE work with a Remote Wonder.

There's a Remote Wonder plug-in here:
http://remotew.free.fr/plugins.htm#MCE

Keymaster and KeyFactory seemed to be on the right track:
RW Key Master: http://catsoft.wz.cz/sp/rwkeymaster.php
RW Key Factory: http://catsoft.wz.cz/sp/rwkeyfactory.php

And the Green Button had some helpful hints:
http://www.thegreenbutton.com/community/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=49&MessageID=105191

I've tried using my Remote Wonder II with the latest Remote Wonder
drivers. I've tried using an older Remote Wonder with very early 1.4
drivers -- the drivers the KeyMaster site said were tested with
KeyMaster and and All in Wonder.

But MCE always reports that it doesn't see an IR remote control and it
stops the installation process at that point.

Anybody around here had experience with this? Got any helpful hints for
me? Maybe I should be asking about this on a Microsoft MCE newsgroup?

I do have an HDTV Wonder installed in my computer. Could that be part
of the problem? Don't see why it should be, but I mention it just in case.

Help, please.

 

[J. Clarke]

Over the past month or so I've been trying to make Windows MCE recognize
my AIW 9600XT as a valid tuner/set top box, and I've had some success.
In fact I think I'm almost there, with only one more major hurdle to
cross.

First thing I did was clean install Windows MCE into a spare partition.
I can boot into MCE any time I like, keeping a full untouched WinXP
partition as my default OS. So I play with this little problem off and
on whenever I feel like it. And whenever I screw things up too bad, I
just Ghost a backup of a pristine Windows MCE installation into the
partition and start over from scratch.

Using the Windows MCE drivers from the ATI site, I can get Windows MCE
to see the AIW tuner and display video and audio in the TV setup
routine. But that's as far as I can get.

Part of the MCE setup routine is to recognize a remote control. The
problem is that after I get MCE to see TV on Channel 4 and also S-Video,
the setup routine looks for a remote unit and can't find one. And
that's the end of setup.

Now at different times I've installed both a Remote Wonder and a Remote
Wonder II. I've had them working fine. In fact, I've run the MCE TV
installation routine making all selections *USING THE REMOTE!* But MCE
says it can't see a remote and stops the installation at that point.
The error is (paraphrasing) "No IR Hardware Found."

"Well a Remote Wonder isn't IR," I thought, "so maybe that's why this
isn't working."

So I went looking on the Internet and found websites that explained how
to make MCE work with a Remote Wonder.

There's a Remote Wonder plug-in here:
http://remotew.free.fr/plugins.htm#MCE

Keymaster and KeyFactory seemed to be on the right track:
RW Key Master: http://catsoft.wz.cz/sp/rwkeymaster.php
RW Key Factory: http://catsoft.wz.cz/sp/rwkeyfactory.php

And the Green Button had some helpful hints:
http://www.thegreenbutton.com/community/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=49&MessageID=105191

I've tried using my Remote Wonder II with the latest Remote Wonder
drivers. I've tried using an older Remote Wonder with very early 1.4
drivers -- the drivers the KeyMaster site said were tested with
KeyMaster and and All in Wonder.

But MCE always reports that it doesn't see an IR remote control and it
stops the installation process at that point.

Anybody around here had experience with this? Got any helpful hints for
me? Maybe I should be asking about this on a Microsoft MCE newsgroup?

I do have an HDTV Wonder installed in my computer. Could that be part
of the problem? Don't see why it should be, but I mention it just in
case.

Help, please.

Officially the Remote Wonder is not _supposed_ to work with MCE.

I'm not sure where you're hitting the problem--you might want to just
install for no remote and then try the ATI with the most recent drivers and
see if it works the machine properly. I've not done enough MCE
installations to be able to tell you how to do that offhand.

Or just spend the 40 bucks for the MCE remote.

 

[Tom Scales]

MCE REQUIRES an MCE remote, and the remote wonder is NOT one. Buy the Dell
version for $15 on ebay

 

[Bill Anderson]

MCE REQUIRES an MCE remote, and the remote wonder is NOT one. Buy the Dell
version for $15 on ebay

Thanks guys. So it appears what I'm trying to do can't be done. I just
got the impression from those links I provided that some people have
successfully persuaded Windows MCE to accept a Remote Wonder. I was
just having some fun with it.

I don't really need MCE, do I? I mean, the ATI software is working just
fine for me in my WinXP Pro installation, and on top of that I have a
DVR cable box. With the AIW card or cable box or even VCR as a source,
I can capture video in MPEG 2 format with MMC and easily create DVDs
with Ulead or Roxio software. That's really the main thing I want to
do. I was just fiddling around with MCE as an experiment. In fact, my
guess is that MCE saves video in a proprietary Microsoft format that
would be incompatible with Ulead DVD Workshop. Maybe. I was just
hoping to find out.

I don't mind paying $15 or $40 for a new remote control. It's not the
money -- it's just that I don't have any interest in connecting a second
remote unit -- IR at that -- to my computer. Who needs it? My Remote
Wonder and other ATI software are working fine, now that I've rolled
back to earlier drivers. (The latest drivers are a real pain.)

So I suppose I'll just drop the project. Seems a shame, though,
considering how close I appear to have come to success. I just wish I
knew whether all those folks who claim to have solved the problem really
have made MCE accept a Remote Wonder as a genuine IR remote control.

 

[J. Clarke]

Thanks guys. So it appears what I'm trying to do can't be done. I just
got the impression from those links I provided that some people have
successfully persuaded Windows MCE to accept a Remote Wonder. I was
just having some fun with it.

I don't really need MCE, do I? I mean, the ATI software is working just
fine for me in my WinXP Pro installation, and on top of that I have a
DVR cable box. With the AIW card or cable box or even VCR as a source,
I can capture video in MPEG 2 format with MMC and easily create DVDs
with Ulead or Roxio software. That's really the main thing I want to
do. I was just fiddling around with MCE as an experiment. In fact, my
guess is that MCE saves video in a proprietary Microsoft format that
would be incompatible with Ulead DVD Workshop. Maybe. I was just
hoping to find out.

I don't mind paying $15 or $40 for a new remote control. It's not the
money -- it's just that I don't have any interest in connecting a second
remote unit -- IR at that -- to my computer. Who needs it? My Remote
Wonder and other ATI software are working fine, now that I've rolled
back to earlier drivers. (The latest drivers are a real pain.)

So I suppose I'll just drop the project. Seems a shame, though,
considering how close I appear to have come to success. I just wish I
knew whether all those folks who claim to have solved the problem really
have made MCE accept a Remote Wonder as a genuine IR remote control.

They don't. MCE will work fine with other remotes. The media keys on my
Logitech Bluetooth keyboard work it just fine for example. What it won't
do is recognize them as being Media Center remotes.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Bill Anderson wrote:




They don't.

Sorry to be dense, but help me out here, John. Did you intend to type
"They haven't?" As in, "They haven't solved the problem?"


MCE will work fine with other remotes.

I just feel there's a basic fact in all this that I'm too dense to
understand. What does "will work fine" mean? Are you saying MCE will
recognize other remotes and complete the installation process I've thus
far been unable to complete? And is the Remote Wonder one of the "other
remotes" you're talking about?

The media keys on my

Logitech Bluetooth keyboard work it just fine for example.

What does "work it" mean? Will your keyboard turn on the AIW tuner in
MCE? Can you change the channels? Volume? Record? View the program
grid? Do everything an MCE remote will do? Or are you just saying you
can move the cursor with your mouse control and click on the options you
want with your remote keyboard? Does your keyboard integrate seamlessly
with MCE? And if so, why won't the Remote Wonder? Is it because the
Remote Wonder isn't IR?

What it won't

do is recognize them as being Media Center remotes.

If your Bluetooth keyboard does everything a Media Center remote will
do, as you seem to be saying, what difference does it make if MCE won't
recognize a remote as an official MCE remote?

You seem to be saying you can do everything with your Bluetooth keyboard
that an MCE remote can do. So when you set up MCE, it recognized your
Bluetooth unit as an MCE remote and it now allows you to change channels
on your AIW tuner? Is that what you're saying? It's possible to fool
MCE with Bluetooth but not with a Remote Wonder?

Yeah, as I said, I'm dense. It's been a curse all my life. Help, please.

 

[J. Clarke]

Sorry to be dense, but help me out here, John. Did you intend to type
"They haven't?" As in, "They haven't solved the problem?"

That is correct, they haven't solved the particular problem that you are
seeing.

MCE will work fine with other remotes.

I just feel there's a basic fact in all this that I'm too dense to
understand. What does "will work fine" mean? Are you saying MCE will
recognize other remotes and complete the installation process I've thus
far been unable to complete? And is the Remote Wonder one of the "other
remotes" you're talking about?

No. MCE will install with no remote of any kind attached to the machine. In
fact it needs a patch to recognize the official remote. I'm wondering now
which version of MCE you're running. Is this an OEM copy on a
Microsoft-distributed CD with the entire label side of the CT one big
hologram, or is it a CD that was distributed by a computer manufacturer?
And is it 2004 or 2005?

What does "work it" mean? Will your keyboard turn on the AIW tuner in
MCE?

I don't have to do anything to "turn on" a tuner.

Can you change the channels?

Doesn't have a key for this.

Volume?
Yes.

Record?

It doesn't have a record key.

View the program
grid?

Doesn't have that key either.

Do everything an MCE remote will do?

No. Every media-related key on the keyboard functions as designed, but it
does not have every key that the MCE remote has.

Or are you just saying you
can move the cursor with your mouse control and click on the options you
want with your remote keyboard?

I have to do that for the ones for which there are no dedicated keys on the
keyboard.

Does your keyboard integrate seamlessly
with MCE?

Pretty much.

And if so, why won't the Remote Wonder? Is it because the
Remote Wonder isn't IR?

Logitech doesn't make an IR keyboard as far as I know. The one in question
is Bluetooth.

If your Bluetooth keyboard does everything a Media Center remote will
do, as you seem to be saying, what difference does it make if MCE won't
recognize a remote as an official MCE remote?

Far as I know it doesn't make _any_ difference unless you want to control
another device (for example a cable box) via MCE.

You seem to be saying you can do everything with your Bluetooth keyboard
that an MCE remote can do.

No. Only those things for which the keyboard had dedicated media keys.

So when you set up MCE, it recognized your
Bluetooth unit as an MCE remote and it now allows you to change channels
on your AIW tuner?

No. It did not recognize it as anything. It just works.

Specifically I can start MCE using the "media" button on the keyboard,
increase, decrease, or mute volume, play, pause, fast-forward, or rewind
using the keys marked for that purpose on the keyboard. Those are the only
media-related keys on that keyboard.

Is that what you're saying? It's possible to fool
MCE with Bluetooth but not with a Remote Wonder?

It's not a matter of "fooling"--Microsoft has apparently built an API for
remote control devices into the latest versions of XP including MCE and
anything that complies with that API works without having to tweak
anything.

Yeah, as I said, I'm dense. It's been a curse all my life. Help, please.

What specific steps did you go through before you got to the point where MCE
is complaining that it doesn't recognize the remote?

 

[Tom Scales]

Bill Anderson wrote:

No. MCE will install with no remote of any kind attached to the machine.
In
fact it needs a patch to recognize the official remote. I'm wondering now
which version of MCE you're running. Is this an OEM copy on a
Microsoft-distributed CD with the entire label side of the CT one big
hologram, or is it a CD that was distributed by a computer manufacturer?
And is it 2004 or 2005?

This is incorrect. It's not the install, it is the setup. If you are
trying to use S-Video or Composite in, then MCE assumes you have a set-top
box and WILL NOT complete the setup without an MCE certified remote.

Tom

 

[Bill Anderson]

Bill Anderson wrote:




What specific steps did you go through before you got to the point where MCE
is complaining that it doesn't recognize the remote?

Thanks for your patience.

1) Clean-installed MCE 2005. MCE installs native drivers for the AIW.
2) Installed Remote Wonder. (Mouse control works. Up and down arrows
work. OK button works as "enter" key.)
3) Started Media Center and began TV setup.
4) Media Center reports it doesn't see a TV tuner.
5) Downloaded WinXP MCE drivers from ATI site.
6) Installed 9-13_mmc_uci.exe -- what the ATI driver site calls
DAO-MDAC. MCE still doesn't see a tuner.
7) Installed the ATI DVD player. MCE still doesn't see a tuner.
8) Installed ATI Multimedia Center (MMC)9-13_mmc_enu.exe. Installed TV
and radio only. MCE still doesn't see a tuner.
9) Installed parental encoder 6-3_encoder_30895.exe. MCE finally sees a
tuner.
10) Began MCE TV setup routine.
11) Chose "manual" setup.
12) When offered choice of Cable, Satellite, or Antenna, chose "Cable."
13) MCE searched for a signal. Found and displayed in a little window
on the setup screen an S-Video video signal with audio, because I do
have an S-Video cable connected from the cable box to the AIW.
14) Not satisfied with S-Video from the cable box on the setup screen, I
clicked on a green button beside "Channel 4" and got a good video signal
with audio from the AIW card.
15) Chose "continue" and MCE began looking for a remote. When it
couldn't find one it offered the options of trying again to find a
remote or quitting.
16) Picked up the Remote Wonder and used the arrow keys and OK button to
try again. MCE still didn't see the remote it was looking for.
17) Quit with the TV setup a failure.

That's about it -- hope I didn't leave anything out. I got so close to
success -- the cable video on the setup screen was so tantalizing. But
no go.

 

[Bill Anderson]

This is incorrect. It's not the install, it is the setup. If you are
trying to use S-Video or Composite in, then MCE assumes you have a set-top
box and WILL NOT complete the setup without an MCE certified remote.

Tom

Wow. Looks like you posted this while I was typing my other post of the
morning. So maybe the problem is that I have S-Video connected? I'll
disconnect S-Video and try the TV setup routine again when I get home
this evening. Didn't occur to me that S-Video might be complicating things.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Wow. Looks like you posted this while I was typing my other post of the
morning. So maybe the problem is that I have S-Video connected? I'll
disconnect S-Video and try the TV setup routine again when I get home
this evening. Didn't occur to me that S-Video might be complicating
things.

Hooray! Couldn't wait til this evening -- had to try it this morning.
And it works! I can even change a channel with my Remote Wonder -- but
only from Channel 3 to 4 and back again. Weird. This will give me
plenty to play with when I get home this evening. Many thanks!

 

[Tom Scales]

Wow. Looks like you posted this while I was typing my other post of the
morning. So maybe the problem is that I have S-Video connected? I'll
disconnect S-Video and try the TV setup routine again when I get home this
evening. Didn't occur to me that S-Video might be complicating things.

Remember, this is S-Video IN from the cable box, NOT S-video OUT to the TV.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Remember, this is S-Video IN from the cable box, NOT S-video OUT to the TV.

Yes, I know. And now, this afternoon to my great surprise, I've found I
can use my Remote Wonder with Windows MCE and do pretty much everything
I would want to do with it.

After installing the plug-ins I mentioned in the first post, and after
little re-programming of the Remote Wonder commands, the remote control
buttons are working like this:

Power - starts Media Center
Left arrow - activates the MC power off button and OK selects it.

These buttons work as you'd expect:
Mouse buttons
Channel up and down
Number keys
Volume up and down
Mute
Record
Rewind
Fast Forward
Pause
Play
Stop

Well, it all pretty much works as it should. I have noticed that the
fast forward and rewind buttons skip chapters on a DVD while the
onscreen FF and RW buttons work as they should when I click on them.
But that's something to play with. All in all, I have it working as I'd
been hoping for.

Many thanks to both of you for talking me through this. And especially
thanks to Tom for mentioning the S-Video cable. That was the roadblock
all along.