Windows In Taskbar Inconsistencies

[CMM]

Just a little rant about the weird, highly disconcerting document switching
inconsistencies between Office apps. I would have thought this would have
been corrected in Office 2003. Sadly, it was not.

Here are the inconsistencies:

Word - No problem here. It's SDI done right. Each document is its own
window. I'm actually not a huge fan of SDI but Word works well, elegantly,
and is consistent.

Excel - Fake SDI using MDI done BADLY. All your documents show up on the
taskbar making you THINK they're all their own distinct window. But, if you
click the X in the top of one of them, ALL your documents close! I hate
that.

PowerPoint - Almost Same as Excel but Different. Same weird "Windows in
Taskbar" navigation like Excel... but at least here when you click on the X
in the of the PowerPoint window, only the CURRENT document closes. That's a
bit more intuitive.

I understand that there were technical reasons for why they couldn't
duplicate their achievements with Word. But, still, why do Excel and
PowerPoint behave different even from each other??? It's highly confusing.

Whatever happened to consistency? I never hated Classic MDI, but I do see
why it has become deprecated (I prefer TDI like in FrontPage 2003 and Visual
Studio.NET). All I'm saying is that the *inconsistent* and weird behavior
between Office apps says a little about MS's attention to detail as of late.
Someone in Quality Assurance was asleep when they put out Office 2003.

 

[Michael Bednarek]

Just a little rant about the weird, highly disconcerting document switching
inconsistencies between Office apps. I would have thought this would have
been corrected in Office 2003. Sadly, it was not.

Here are the inconsistencies:

Word - No problem here. It's SDI done right. Each document is its own
window. I'm actually not a huge fan of SDI but Word works well, elegantly,
and is consistent.

Excel - Fake SDI using MDI done BADLY. All your documents show up on the
taskbar making you THINK they're all their own distinct window. But, if you
click the X in the top of one of them, ALL your documents close! I hate
that.

[snipped]

I think the inconsistencies consist in part of your inconsistent use of
the programs' options. Ticking/unticking "View/Windows in Taskbar"
consistently will produce consistent results in that regard. You're
right, though, about the inconsistent behaviour of the outer-most Close
button. Unticking the above option will probably make Excel's behaviour
clearer.

 

[CMM]

"Windows In Taskbar" is the default for Excel 2003 and PowerPoint 2003. I
have done nothing inconsistent.

 

[CMM]

And, let me reiterate that I understand the difference between Word's true
SDI and Excel/PowerPoint's.... what I'm saying is that even between Excel
and PowerPoint's Fake SDI ("Windows in Taskbar") there is inconsistency and
they behave differently even from each other (Excel Top Close closes All
documents, vs PowerPoint Top Close closes just Current document). That's
just plain bad design IMO.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

there is inconsistency and

they behave differently even from each other (Excel Top Close closes All
documents, vs PowerPoint Top Close closes just Current document).

I don't see that here, at least not in 2003.

Both PPT and Excel have two close "X" boxes.

One, just to the right of the "Type a question for help" box, closes the
current document.

The other, just above the first, closes the app and any open documents
(prompting for save if need be).

In PPT this is independent of the "Windows in Taskbar" setting.

 

[CMM]

The other, just above the first, closes the app and any open documents

(prompting for save if need be).

Yeah. That close button. In PowerPoint (2003), it does NOT close "the app
and any open documents" when Windows in Taskbar setting is On. You're wrong.
It only closes the currently active document.

But actually, this behavior (PowerPoint's) makes intuitive sense given the
SDI interface that the "Windows in Taskbar" tries to mimic. I actually like
the behavior. However, Excel behaves differently (and annoyingly).

I'm just trying to make a case for consistency.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Yeah. That close button. In PowerPoint (2003), it does NOT close "the app
and any open documents" when Windows in Taskbar setting is On. You're wrong.
It only closes the currently active document.

It figures that'd be the only combination I didn't check. You're quite right.

But actually, this behavior (PowerPoint's) makes intuitive sense given the
SDI interface that the "Windows in Taskbar" tries to mimic. I actually like
the behavior. However, Excel behaves differently (and annoyingly).

I'm just trying to make a case for consistency.

No arguments there. It's unlikely that MS will make any changes to 2003, but
maybe in 2007 ...?

 

[Tony Jollans]

Is this at all related to multi-use instancing? In other words, the apps are
designed in different ways and it is only possible to have a single
Powerpoint instance running whereas one might have many Word and/or Excel
instances at the same time.

This is just an observation - not an argument against (or for) consistency
in the UI

 

[CMM]

Actually only one instance of Word is running no matter how many documents
are open. You can confirm this in Task Manager. Same for Excel and
PowerPoint.

However, if any of them are busy doing something (like running a macro) and
you try to open another document (say from Windows Explorer) they WILL start
a *new* process. This is OK with Word as you'd never be able to tell. But in
Excel- with Windows In Taskbar On- it's CONFUSING AS HELL. Now you have
*two* Excel "master" MDI windows on your desktop each with their own set of
documents open. Just when you got used to *all* your documents minimizing
when you minimize Excel now all of a sudden everything is different. It's
retarded...... and definately bad UI design. I expected them to have
addressed it in Office 2003.

P.S. I like SDI... which is why I use Windows in Taskbar (it's also the
Default so most people in offices everywhere are using it too.... and have
been just as confused by it for years). I'd prefer to see a nice Tabbed
Document Interface (TDI) but I doubt Microsoft would even know how to do
this right. Their UI design teams aren't the brightest bunch (in the last
few years) IMO..... as the Fake-SDI MDI fiasco demonstrates.

 

[Tony Jollans]

I wasn't suggesting that you were necessarily running multiple instances,
just that Word and Excel have that capacity whilst PowerPoint doesn't -
which fact might be related to the difference in interfaces.

Yes, the (pseudo-)SDI is the default, so many people are probably using it
because they are unaware that it's optional. Personally I hate it -
especially in Access - but it depends how one works; my Taskbar is usually
overflowing and the last thing I want is a lot of extra Office
icons/windows. I would certainly like to see a decent tabbed interface but
we'll just have to wait and see if one ever arrives

 

[CMM]

I tend to like WinXP "group" windows taskbar feature... so I rely on it. One
thing I know for sure is that I dislike MDI... and as a software developer I
know it was deprecated back in 1995... MS encouraged that it be dropped! Why
Excel and PowerPoint still use it is beyond me.

I would love to see an elegant tabbed interface in the next version of
Office apps.

BTW, FrontPage 2003 has a pretty nice Tabbed Interface. Unfortunately the
teams at MS don't seem to be working together as closely as they were in the
past (say Office 95 - Office 97). The disparate interface interface
anomolies are a testament to that.

BTW2, And, yes, Access has been due a major interface overhaul for 10 years.

 

[WinterWolves]

I was just answering someone's post about MDI/Tabbed browsing in Word.
And because it looks like your in a similar boat, let me just mention
that Intellitabs (intellitabs.com) is a great product that gives you
just that.

And Microsoft should REALLY learn to make at LEAST their office apps
more consistent, imho.