Windows Genuine Advantage

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Uncle said:
Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:

"Spyware" is resident software that tracks your URL visiting habits
and/or then attempts to steer you to sites where the spyware software
WANTS you to spend money, or where it think's that you're LIKELY to
spend money.
Click to expand...

That's your definition, not Microsoft's.
If you can't see that, you're a moron.
Click to expand...

I can read. Let's see if you can too:

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/msft/analysis.mspx

If namecalling is your best argument, why bother to post?

Being called a moron by an unidentified person on usenet doesn't make me
a moron, but it does make you look like your thought process got stuck
in third grade.

--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff
 
Except that you don't understand what you read, which means you look
at it as spyware, which it is not.
Click to expand...

An insult is not a fact, Leythos. It is an opinion. In this case, it is
an opinion without a shred of evidence to support it.

I lack a technical education, because I was a liberal arts major, but my
computer experience began in 1976 when I learned BASIC on my college's
mainframe, and since 1984, I have used a computer every day, for at
least several hours a day. I never claimed I lack computer experience,
only that I do not have more than passing familiarity with Windows XP.

But I've been working very hard to fill in that gap.

I do understand what I read. I know what a term of art is, and I'm
competent (in both the legal and the common parlance) to learn the
definitions of the underlying terms.

It is, precisely, spyware.

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff
 
I can read. Let's see if you can too:

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/msft/analysis.mspx
Click to expand...

Five evaluation criteria

Microsoft researchers use the following categories to determine whether
to add a program to the definition library for detection, and what
classification type, risk level, and recommendation to give it.

1) Deceptive behaviors. Runs processes or programs on the user's
computer without notifying the user and getting the user's consent.
Prevents users from controlling the actions taken by the program while
it runs on the computer. Prevents users from installing or removing the
program.

## Doesn't apply to WGA, except the removal part, but you authorized the
installation of it, so that doesn't count.

2) Privacy. Collects, uses, or communicates the user's personal
information and behaviors (such as Web browsing habits) without explicit
consent.

## You authorized it by accepting the automatic or manual updates, so it
doesn't apply here either.


3) Security. Attempts to circumvent or disable the security features on
the user?s computer, or otherwise compromises the computer's security.

## Nope, this doesn't apply either.

4) Performance. Undermines performance, reliability, and quality of the
user's computing experience with slow computer speed, reduced
productivity, or corruption of the operating system.

## Nope, still not applicable.

5) Industry and consumer opinion. Considers the input from software
industry and individual users as a key factor to help identify new
behaviors and programs that might present risks to the user's computing
experience.

## Still doesn't apply.

So, other than you can't uninstall it, it's not malware/spyware
according to MS's site.
 
An insult is not a fact, Leythos. It is an opinion. In this case, it is
an opinion without a shred of evidence to support it.
Click to expand...

The fact that you don't understand what you did/agreed to is fact,
that's not an insult at all.
I lack a technical education, because I was a liberal arts major, but my
computer experience began in 1976 when I learned BASIC on my college's
mainframe, and since 1984, I have used a computer every day, for at
least several hours a day. I never claimed I lack computer experience,
only that I do not have more than passing familiarity with Windows XP.
Click to expand...

And my mother inlaw has been using a computer for almost as long, and
she still has no technical understanding of how it works or much else
about it - as you put it, you've been USING, which has little to do with
making you understand how it works.
But I've been working very hard to fill in that gap.
Click to expand...

And that's good, glad to see it, but, based on how you understand what
you've read on the MS site, you have a long way to go to get past the
basics.
I do understand what I read. I know what a term of art is, and I'm
competent (in both the legal and the common parlance) to learn the
definitions of the underlying terms.

It is, precisely, spyware.
Click to expand...

I just pasted the MS definition in another reply, and only the fact that
you can't uninstall it, which is only a part of one item in the list,
qualifies as malware/spyware - but you can't uninstall many parts of
Windows, and you did agree to it, even if you don't remember.
 
OK LETS READ
1)USER consent- REALLY?? do you honestly believe" most people would consent
to being spyed on?
a)does NOT notify the user when initiating an outbound connection
b) definitely prevents the o.p from controlling the process
c) does not ALLOW easy install/uninstall
Ok #1 all blown to ****

2) Privacy- um ok-so what part of my 3rd party software has ANYTHING
WHATSOEVER to do with authorizing an o.s.? Or for that matter;what I use my
pc for??

#2 down - next

#3 Security-HMMM let me think? Let's see; Oh duh. an open unauthorized
access point to my pc??? no that's not a security issue??

#4 ANYTHING ANYTHING using my bandwidth-that I PAY FOR-without my explicit
consent-degrades my experience

#5 Industry and consumer opininon- Well I got to hand it to you on this
one..
MS doesn't give a damn about industry;let alone customer opinion.
Back to square one Leythos, consent is given freely in my world; not
stolen-deceptively packaged; or otherwise misrepresented;
Again, Leythos; there is no justification at all- and because you may
say it doesn't apply;still does not alter the fact that KB905474 DOES DO
EACH OF THESE DEFINITIONS
Jeff

I can read. Let's see if you can too:

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/msft/analysis.mspx
Click to expand...

Five evaluation criteria

Microsoft researchers use the following categories to determine whether
to add a program to the definition library for detection, and what
classification type, risk level, and recommendation to give it.

1) Deceptive behaviors. Runs processes or programs on the user's
computer without notifying the user and getting the user's consent.
Prevents users from controlling the actions taken by the program while
it runs on the computer. Prevents users from installing or removing the
program.

## Doesn't apply to WGA, except the removal part, but you authorized the
installation of it, so that doesn't count.

2) Privacy. Collects, uses, or communicates the user's personal
information and behaviors (such as Web browsing habits) without explicit
consent.

## You authorized it by accepting the automatic or manual updates, so it
doesn't apply here either.


3) Security. Attempts to circumvent or disable the security features on
the user?s computer, or otherwise compromises the computer's security.

## Nope, this doesn't apply either.

4) Performance. Undermines performance, reliability, and quality of the
user's computing experience with slow computer speed, reduced
productivity, or corruption of the operating system.

## Nope, still not applicable.

5) Industry and consumer opinion. Considers the input from software
industry and individual users as a key factor to help identify new
behaviors and programs that might present risks to the user's computing
experience.

## Still doesn't apply.

So, other than you can't uninstall it, it's not malware/spyware
according to MS's site.
 
jeffwhat44 said:
OK LETS READ
Click to expand...

I guess it boils down to one simple thing, you installed it willingly,
and now you don't like it, but there are, have been, will be, updates
that you can't uninstall, so nothing is changed.

You are free to NOT install updates, and most are not needed on a
properly protected computer, so, it's all up to you to research before
you authorize something to install on your computer.

Oh, and it appears to be working as intended based on the number of
pirated copies of XP that have been exposed and the almost nonexistent
false positives, at least according to the media and this group.
 
Jeff said:
OK LETS READ
1)USER consent- REALLY?? do you honestly believe" most people would consent
to being spyed on?
a)does NOT notify the user when initiating an outbound connection
b) definitely prevents the o.p from controlling the process
c) does not ALLOW easy install/uninstall
Ok #1 all blown to ****

2) Privacy- um ok-so what part of my 3rd party software has ANYTHING
WHATSOEVER to do with authorizing an o.s.? Or for that matter;what I use my
pc for??

#2 down - next

#3 Security-HMMM let me think? Let's see; Oh duh. an open unauthorized
access point to my pc??? no that's not a security issue??

#4 ANYTHING ANYTHING using my bandwidth-that I PAY FOR-without my explicit
consent-degrades my experience

#5 Industry and consumer opininon- Well I got to hand it to you on this
one..
MS doesn't give a damn about industry;let alone customer opinion.
Back to square one Leythos, consent is given freely in my world; not
stolen-deceptively packaged; or otherwise misrepresented;
Again, Leythos; there is no justification at all- and because you may
say it doesn't apply;still does not alter the fact that KB905474 DOES DO
EACH OF THESE DEFINITIONS
Jeff



Five evaluation criteria

Microsoft researchers use the following categories to determine whether
to add a program to the definition library for detection, and what
classification type, risk level, and recommendation to give it.

1) Deceptive behaviors. Runs processes or programs on the user's
computer without notifying the user and getting the user's consent.
Prevents users from controlling the actions taken by the program while
it runs on the computer. Prevents users from installing or removing the
program.

## Doesn't apply to WGA, except the removal part, but you authorized the
installation of it, so that doesn't count.

2) Privacy. Collects, uses, or communicates the user's personal
information and behaviors (such as Web browsing habits) without explicit
consent.

## You authorized it by accepting the automatic or manual updates, so it
doesn't apply here either.


3) Security. Attempts to circumvent or disable the security features on
the user?s computer, or otherwise compromises the computer's security.

## Nope, this doesn't apply either.

4) Performance. Undermines performance, reliability, and quality of the
user's computing experience with slow computer speed, reduced
productivity, or corruption of the operating system.

## Nope, still not applicable.

5) Industry and consumer opinion. Considers the input from software
industry and individual users as a key factor to help identify new
behaviors and programs that might present risks to the user's computing
experience.

## Still doesn't apply.

So, other than you can't uninstall it, it's not malware/spyware
according to MS's site.
Click to expand...

The pathetic thing is that WGA was invented to catch thieves. Each time
a new WGA comes out, the crack comes out a day later. So what does MS
do, design a new WGA to bypass the crack of the old one and so it goes.
Does anyone here really want to have to download and install a new WGA
every week? Why do paying customers have to stand in the crossfire of
MS' cat and mouse games with the crackers?

Alias
 
Um,
You are still missing the point. DECEPTION is not free will. Oh and bye
the way; I chose not to have it. If and when it becomes a requirement;then
my business goes elsewhere; for good or bad.
Jeff P.S. don't use AV and never have had an issue.
 
Leythos said:
I guess it boils down to one simple thing, you installed it willingly,
and now you don't like it, but there are, have been, will be, updates
that you can't uninstall, so nothing is changed.
Click to expand...

Actually, with the right tools, it can be uninstalled.

Oops.

Alias
 
Agreed

Alias said:
The pathetic thing is that WGA was invented to catch thieves. Each time a
new WGA comes out, the crack comes out a day later. So what does MS do,
design a new WGA to bypass the crack of the old one and so it goes. Does
anyone here really want to have to download and install a new WGA every
week? Why do paying customers have to stand in the crossfire of MS' cat
and mouse games with the crackers?

Alias
Click to expand...
 
aka@ said:
Actually, with the right tools, it can be uninstalled.

Oops.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, and so can updates that don't appear to be uninstallable,
but I was addressing the situation for most users, sorry, I should have
been more specific and stated that it can't be uninstalled using
Add/Remove Programs tool.
 
Jeff said:
Agreed
Click to expand...

The first one would have told people that wanted to know if their copy
of XP was not legit. The subsequent WGAs are merely part of the cat and
mouse game we are forced to play between MS and the crackers.

Alias
 
aka@ said:
The first one would have told people that wanted to know if their copy
of XP was not legit. The subsequent WGAs are merely part of the cat and
mouse game we are forced to play between MS and the crackers.
Click to expand...

I agree with the above statement also.
 
Jeff said:
True, nothing's permanent. Ah but MS doesn't want people to know that!!! :-)
Click to expand...

I'd post what program can uninstall it but I don't want to be banned ;-)

Alias
 
Leythos said:
Yes, I agree, and so can updates that don't appear to be uninstallable,
but I was addressing the situation for most users, sorry, I should have
been more specific and stated that it can't be uninstalled using
Add/Remove Programs tool.
Click to expand...

Hey, watch that! I am getting old and don't need shocks like that!
What's the world coming to? Leythos actually admitted making a mistake!
Perhaps I have misjudged you.

Alias
 
So, in summary;as I am tiring off explaining that deceit is not acceptable;
when and if MS decides kb905474 is a requirement to do business with them;
My money and my free will; will go elsewhere.
Jeff
 
aka@ said:
I said stop it! I am hitting 60 this year and don't need to be shocked
like that!
Click to expand...

Oh, come on, I never said all the updates/changes were good, just that
there is nothing wrong with WGA and its intent.

I hate updates as much as anyone, they cost clients money in most cases
as we have to spend time evaluating them to see if there is going to be
any problems before we let them install - on other clients machines we
just enable download/autoinstall, so they don't have any issues, but you
have to make sure they are not under SOX audit requirements before you
do that.
 
aka@ said:
Hey, watch that! I am getting old and don't need shocks like that!
What's the world coming to? Leythos actually admitted making a mistake!
Perhaps I have misjudged you.
Click to expand...

I always admit when I'm mistaken, all you have to do is show me the
mistake so that I can understand it and I'll change the
position/statement to show that I was wrong before.

I'm the same as I've always been, I work based on a strict black/white
system and facts.
 
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