WIN XP SYSTEM RESTORE FAILS 80%

[Guest]

Hi,

Restore is there and works (both disks are being monitored) except: "System
Restore cannot restore to date you selected. . .no changes were made. . ."
I have turned SR off and on twice now it works for a while then quits.
I just learned how to get and read LOG REVIEWER and it says, for the last
two failed events: "SR was disabled because of lack of space on sys disk.
There is 15gigs of free space on that disk and I have max allocation, 12% (40
gig drive)! There's only one partition on that disk.

Ideas?? Thanks

Sam Grant
Dell demension 3000
XP SP2
PLENTY MEM AND SPEED

 

[Gerry]

Sam

System Restore should only be set to monitor your System drive! What is
the second drive you are monitoring?

For some reason there seems to be a difference between the amount of
free disk you think have and the amount the system thinks you have!
Where are you getting your figure of 15 gb from?

Go to Start, Control Panel, Folder Options, View, Advanced Settings and
verify that the box before "Show hidden files and folders" is checked
and "Hide protected operating system files " is unchecked. You may need
to scroll down to see the second item. You should also make certain that
the box before "Hide extensions for known file types" is not checked.
Next in Windows Explorer make sure View, Details is selected and then
select View, Choose Details and check before Name, Type, Total Size, and
Free Space.

To increase you free space on your XP partition select Start, All
Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp, More Options, System
Restore and remove all but the latest System Restore points? Restore
points can be quite large.

It is likely that an allocation of 12% has been made to System Restore
on your C partition which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb.
Right click your My Computer icon on the Desktop and select System
Restore. Place the cursor on your C drive select Settings but this time
find the slider and drag it to the left until it reads 700 mb and exit.
When you get to the Settings screen click on Apply and OK and exit.

Are you using any Norton utilities? What are you using to back up data
file?

Open Disk Defragmenter and click on Analyse. Select View Report and
click on Save As and Save. Now find VolumeC.txt in your My Documents
Folder and post a copy.

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Guest]

Gerry,
Thanks for quick reply.

System Restore should only be set to monitor your System drive! What is
the second drive you are monitoring?

You're probably right. 2nd is storage and I use Win Backup to 2nd drive (E).

Where are you getting your figure of 15 gb from?

Right click on "C:" & it show used and free amounts. I'm sure 15 gigs in
right.

"Show hidden files and folders" is checked

It is.

When I cleared "Hide OS files," I got the strong warning "This is a stupid
thing to do!" Is this really, really necessary?

I use "details", but there is no "free space" option listed

SR files are very small. I just turned it off and then back on.

I'll try reducing SR space allocation. Does that make sense if it's show
not enough space??

I keep the disks prettly clean, just ran cleanup again; defraging is seldom
necessary.

I used Norton for a long time/ Had ZoneAlarm now for 30 days. I've heard
that it can mess up SR. Even heard that it should be uninstalled to SR!
Whatta u think?

That "analyze disk" and copy is pretty cool! It verifies 42% free space
Don't know how to attach, so here it is:

Whatta mess. Hope I din't forget anything. . .later.

Sam




Volume (C
Volume size = 37.27 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 21.48 GB
Free space = 15.79 GB
Percent free space = 42 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 7 %
File fragmentation = 14 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 109,173
Average file size = 256 KB
Total fragmented files = 1,481
Total excess fragments = 18,533
Average fragments per file = 1.16

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 768 MB
Total fragments = 2

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 6,970
Fragmented folders = 45
Excess folder fragments = 301

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 145 MB
MFT record count = 116,822
Percent MFT in use = 78 %
Total MFT fragments = 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments File Size Most fragmented files
3,148 200 MB \Program Files\Common Files\Symantec
Shared\NMain-103.0.2.10-2006-05-21-20-27-25-693.dmp
3,082 196 MB \Program Files\Common Files\Symantec
Shared\NMain-103.0.2.10-2006-01-01-20-03-25-234.dmp
969 64 MB \Program Files\Common Files\Symantec
Shared\NMain-103.0.2.10-2005-11-29-23-22-38-484.dmp
516 32 MB \Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\rt.jar
478 28 KB \WINDOWS\system32\config\software.LOG
453 45 MB \Documents and Settings\All
Users.WINDOWS\Application
Data\Microsoft\Search\Data\Applications\Windows\Projects\SystemIndex\Indexer\CiFiles\0001000C.ci
348 22 MB \lotus\doc\books\ct67pna.pdf
333 21 MB \SCANJET\Setup sj655\English\Data.dxr
304 19 MB \Temp TestDisk\Test
Disk\testdisk-6.8\win\Flight Simulator 9\Scenery\Generic\scenery\bridges.bgl
278 17 MB \Program Files\TurboTax\Deluxe
2006\Forms\1040_06\fdi06in.1pe
260 16 MB \Program Files\TurboTax\Deluxe
2005\Forms\1040_05\fdi05in.1pe
258 132 MB \WINDOWS\system32\ZoneLabs\zlqrtdb.dat
244 15 MB \Program Files\TurboTax\Deluxe
2004\Forms\1040_04\fdi04in.1pe
242 15 MB \Program Files\Microsoft Games\DIALOG.DLL
218 294 MB \Games\combat flight simulator full
(real!)(2)(2).exe
217 14 MB \Temp TestDisk\Test
Disk\testdisk-6.8\win\Flight Simulator
9\Scenery\World\scenery\traffic030528.bgl
179 15 MB \Program
Files\ScanSoft\OmniPagePro12.0\sample5.tif
179 12 MB \Program
Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\bin\client\classes.jsa
178 11 MB \Program Files\Common Files\Symantec
Shared\VirusDefs\20070819.008\VIRSCAN7.DAT
178 11 MB \Program Files\Common Files\Symantec
Shared\VirusDefs\20070820.048\VIRSCAN7.DAT
170 127 MB \WINDOWS\Temp\PRCF.tmp
158 10 MB \Program Files\Common Files\Symantec
Shared\VirusDefs\BinHub\virscan7.dat
156 10 MB \lotus\123\Tutorial\lscript.pdf
148 1 KB \Documents and
Settings\Owner.BOBSPUTER\ntuser.dat.LOG
146 10 MB \Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat
6.0\Acrobat\Acrobat.exe.603.bak
146 10 MB \Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat
6.0\Acrobat\Acrobat602.bak
146 10 MB \Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat
6.0\Acrobat\Acrobat.exe.604.bak
146 10 MB \Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat
6.0\Acrobat\Acrobat.exe.605.bak
133 8 MB
\WINDOWS\assembly\NativeImages1_v1.1.4322\mscorlib\1.0.5000.0__b77a5c561934e089_b470bff7\mscorlib.dll

 

[WaIIy]

System Restore should only be set to monitor your System drive! What is
the second drive you are monitoring?

If you have a main drive "C" and a second drive "X" , don't set System
Restore for the second drive?

I like to use best practices and will turn off SR on my second drive if
you think that's a good idea.
Thanks

 

[Ace]

Side note slightly off-topic;
System Restore will happily glue itself to any and all 'fixed' drives,
harddrives either IDE, SATA, USB, Firewire when they are attached to the
computer in Windows XP SP2, and it will also happily and silently re-
enable itself on all drives after a reboot, or after plugging them back
into the system.

After a year of repeatedly turning off system restore on any drive other
than my system drive, i've chosen to completely kill System Restore as
i've found that when the time comes to utilise it.. it doesn't work.
Instead I run automatic incremental backups each wednesday and a full
disk image backup each month to DVD media.

 

[Gerry]

Ace

An alternative strategy is fine. The trouble is often third party "so
called security" software which interferes with this component of the
Windows operating system.

--
Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gerry]

Sam

Replies inline

Gerry,
Thanks for quick reply.

You're probably right. 2nd is storage and I use Win Backup to 2nd
drive (E).

Many users have opted for third party backup software.

Right click on "C:" & it show used and free amounts. I'm sure 15
gigs in right.

The figures provided by Windows Explorer are never not totally accurate.
You need to bear this in mind. They are the best figures readily
available for most users. The problem comes when you add up what folders
and files you have and subtract the total figure from the disk capacity.
You will find that you should have more free disk space than the system
is telling you exists. There are hidden folders and files which you need
to take into account. Also the system cannot correct for compressed
files taking the file size rather than the size on disk.

It is.

When I cleared "Hide OS files," I got the strong warning "This is a
stupid thing to do!" Is this really, really necessary?

Yes it is if you wish to see what files are there. Even taking these
measures you will not see the contents of the System Volume Information
folder and certain other files and folders.

I use "details", but there is no "free space" option listed

You will only see free space figures on the Properties tab for a
partition / volume. A drive can have one or more partitions.

SR files are very small. I just turned it off and then back on.

SR files are not very small unless System Restore has been turned off.
Although System Restore files are hidden in Windows Explorer you can see
them when they are fragmented in a Disk Defragmenter report. There are
none showing in your Disk Defragmenter report.

I'll try reducing SR space allocation. Does that make sense if it's
show not enough space??

It makes sense for managing the situation as and when you get System
Restore to work as it should.

I keep the disks prettly clean, just ran cleanup again; defraging is
seldom necessary.

Your Disk Degragmenter Report shows many multi fragmented files.

I used Norton for a long time/

Are you saying you have been using Norton but are no longer using Norton
or you are still using Norton? What version of Norton are we talking
about? Norton will cause System Restore to fail!
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/srfail.html

Had ZoneAlarm now for 30 days. I've

heard that it can mess up SR. Even heard that it should be
uninstalled to SR! Whatta u think?

Comments on Zone Alarm are also in this link:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/srfail.html

What version of Zone Alarm do you have?

That "analyze disk" and copy is pretty cool! It verifies 42% free
space Don't know how to attach, so here it is:

It confirms the figures you got from Windows Explorer.

You need to run Disk Defragmenter as the folders and files are badly
fragmented.

Whatta mess. Hope I din't forget anything. . .later.

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ace]

Good point, and thanks for reminding me.

I have found two combinations which can and will break System Restore's
ability to operate properly, these being:

Comodo Firewall Pro - when allowed to interface with Windows DEP
McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.5i - when installed with 'high' security

The latter being the most agressive, it prevents registry writes, writing
to system files/driver hives/system folders/etc.
This lies in McAfee's Access Control module.

I have only used these for almost one year now, my personal grief with
System Restore is as old as XP Pro.

 

[Gerry]

Ace

System Restore was introduced as part of the Millenium Edition. For a
long time nobody took much interest in the problem with System Restore
so if you had encountered problems at that time there was nowhere to
turn for help. The situation is much improved now with a lot of
documentation to refer to on Bert Kinney's site. Norton is well known to
prevent restoration and others cause problems. Why is this so called
security software written in such a way as to interfere with the
operating system. What's the use of being secure if you have bust the
system!

--
Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bert Kinney]

Hi Ace,

Here's another method of excluding drives from System Restore.

TweakXP.com - Exclude specific folders from system restore backup
http://www.tweakxp.com/article37472.aspx

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

 

[Bert Kinney]

Hi Sam,

If any monitored drive/partition falls below 50 MB's of free disk space, all
restore points will be deleted.

As Gerry recommended, stop monitoring all drives/partition other than the
one Windows is installed on.

I would also suggest reducing the amount of space used to hold restore
points to around 1 GB.

Tips on keeping System Restore healthy:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/healthy.html

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

 

[Guest]

Interesting reading guys, thanks.

Two days ago, I turned SR off, then on. Yesterday I installed a new program.
Just now I looked at the restore pts for the first time and it showed ONLY
the couple of uninstalls I did 30 minutes ago!

7% fragmentation is serious??

Help me out. . . what's wrong with monitoring two disks when each has over
10 gigs of free space?

I removed many Symantec and Norton files, I now hate the Co., but saw about
500 mb in the Common Shared files. Okay to delete these??

Thanks. . .Sam

 

[Bert Kinney]

Interesting reading guys, thanks.

You're welcome.

Two days ago, I turned SR off, then on. Yesterday I installed a new program.
Just now I looked at the restore pts for the first time and it showed ONLY
the couple of uninstalls I did 30 minutes ago!

There should have been one or two automatic restore point created by now.
For this to happen there will need to be sufficient system idle time.

Did you look at this page yet?
Troubleshooting missing restore points:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/missingrps.html

You can also take a look for any "SR" and "SRService" event errors in Event
Viewer. If there any present, post them here. There's no need to post
duplicate events.

Event Viewer Help:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/source.html

7% fragmentation is serious??

Where is this fragmentation?

Help me out. . . what's wrong with monitoring two disks when each has over
10 gigs of free space?

Most often disks/partitions other than the one Windows is installed on do
not contain monitored file types. System Restore was designed to restore the
system.

I removed many Symantec and Norton files, I now hate the Co., but saw about
500 mb in the Common Shared files. Okay to delete these??

Symantec 2008/2007/2006/2005/2004/2003 Removal Tools:
http://basconotw.mvps.org/SymRem.htm

Thanks. . .Sam

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

 

[Gerry]

Bert

Disk Defragmenter Report in reply 18 hours ago in response to my
queries. No restore points listed meaning I would imagine that there
were none, given the large number of other fragmented files.

The OP has bodged the removal of Norton. The removal tools surely will
not help unless Norton is first reinstalled?

--
Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bert Kinney]

Thanks for clearing that up Gerry.

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org

 

[Guest]

I used Symantec "uninstall" to remove their programs but their files are
still listed in "Common Shared Files." Okay to remove them manually??

What's wrong with SR monitoring two drives if both have over 10gb free space?

Yes I have read your page on SR maintenance and have copied it to my
Troublshooting file

Pls read original post on srservice in EventViewer. Thanks,

Sam

 

[Shenan Stanley]

USGrant wrote:

What's wrong with SR monitoring two drives if both have over 10gb
free space?

<snipped>

What are you gaining out of it?
System Restore monitors only certain things - does anything on those other
drives qualify?

 

[Ace]

Would love to know why so called security breaks certain parts of
operating system functionality also. Business value perhaps?
I am glad I missed the ME edition for home use, but have encountered it
in work situations.
It was a hopeless piece of work. We used to say Windows ME = "Meer
Ellende" which means "More Problems" in english.
To overcome the bad taste we replaced ME with Windows 2000 Professional.
Symantec and McAfee are both becoming what ME used to be.
Both their 'Internet Security' package have become large, sluggish
draconic packages featuring the exact same registration and activation
process; which, more often than not, fail when upgrading to a newer
edition.
I have had good experiences with Symantec in the past, but 2007 will be
the last year I use their products, 158 days remaining in my license.
I can say the same for Microsoft, but that is a whole different story.
It would be nice if for a change the things we have come to regard as
'standard issue' on computers behave and not cause problems.
But then again, there is a saying.. computers do everything you tell them
to, but never what you want them to.
Good thing we have newsgroups to gather and discuss and clever people
like Bert Kinney posting websites with tips

 

[Ace]

Thank you Mr.Kinney
I will give this a shot on the new laptop, which still has System Restore
in unmodified state.
On the desktop it has been intentionally crippled since 2003.

 

[Bert Kinney]

You're welcome. Let us know how it works out.

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org