B
BillW50
In
I guess that link won't work that way. This one does though.
http://www.tek-micro.com/
BillW50 said:
I guess that link won't work that way. This one does though.
http://www.tek-micro.com/
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:In
Yes, but you still can thanks to the loophole called downgrade
rights:
"Microsoft defines downgrade righs as 'an OEM's ability to generally
offer downgrade facilitation options (e.g., preinstalling Windows XP
Professional on a new PC that includes end-user rights for Windows 7
Professional).'"
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...from-microsoft/6819?tag=content;siu-container
Which is, of course, quite different than Microsoft "still selling OEM
XP licenses", which is what you claimed above.
B
BillW50
In Roy Smith typed:
And your point is? Do you believe that only genuine parts are the ones
that are any good? Remember printer manufactures tried that trick with
their ink cartridges. And even tried to void any warrantee if you used
anything else. But that failed in court and you can use any ink
cartridge from any source.
That is not to say all third party manufactured parts are as good as
genuine. No some of them are not. But OTOH, some of them are superior to
the genuine parts too. ;-)
That's a ridiculous analogy because those Model T parts are not made
by Ford but instead are made by a third party. It's doubtful that you
could go to any car dealer and get genuine parts for any car that's
more than 10 years old.
And your point is? Do you believe that only genuine parts are the ones
that are any good? Remember printer manufactures tried that trick with
their ink cartridges. And even tried to void any warrantee if you used
anything else. But that failed in court and you can use any ink
cartridge from any source.
That is not to say all third party manufactured parts are as good as
genuine. No some of them are not. But OTOH, some of them are superior to
the genuine parts too. ;-)
B
BillW50
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Well they are Windows 7 licenses with XP installed. Same thing except
the license which also allows you to wipe XP out and to install Windows
7 instead. So it is actually more versatile than just a plain OEM XP
license.
And you stated no new machine can come with XP since last year. And that
isn't true either. As that wouldn't happen until 2015. And since
Microsoft has set these end dates before and ended up extending them
time and time again. I won't be surprised if new machines with XP
installed may continue after this date as well. Remember Microsoft tried
to end all XP sales back in 2008. And that didn't happen either.
Which is, of course, quite different than Microsoft "still selling OEM
XP licenses", which is what you claimed above.
Well they are Windows 7 licenses with XP installed. Same thing except
the license which also allows you to wipe XP out and to install Windows
7 instead. So it is actually more versatile than just a plain OEM XP
license.
And you stated no new machine can come with XP since last year. And that
isn't true either. As that wouldn't happen until 2015. And since
Microsoft has set these end dates before and ended up extending them
time and time again. I won't be surprised if new machines with XP
installed may continue after this date as well. Remember Microsoft tried
to end all XP sales back in 2008. And that didn't happen either.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Well they are Windows 7 licenses with XP installed. Same thing
except the license which also allows you to wipe XP out and to
install Windows 7 instead. So it is actually more versatile than
just a plain OEM XP license.
Actually, you are mistaken. OEMs can no longer supply machines with
Windows XP preinstalled. That ended October 22, 2010, see
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/...nd-windows-server-2008-r2-service-pack-1.aspx,
buried in about paragraph 7, quote "As background, an OEM’s ability to
generally offer downgrade facilitation options (e.g., preinstalling
Windows XP Professional on a new PC that includes end-user rights for
Windows 7 Professional) ends on October 22, 2010." Also, see
http://en.community.dell.com/dell-b.../07/windows-xp-rides-off-into-the-sunset.aspx
for Dell's announcement confirming the Microsoft policy and
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2010/09/08/dell-to-drop-preinstalled-windows-xp-option-this-month/,
and I'm sure there are others but that should do it.
As the original post came from Microsoft, and was confirmed in a
personal conversation with our Dell and Microsoft reps, I'll need more
than a ZDNet article that mis-quotes the original article if you want
to refute it. Certainly, downdrade rights to XP were extended, but
NOT the ability for OEMs to facilitate that downgrade by offering XP
factory preinstalled along with a Windows 7 license. If you care to
refute that, a simple link to an OEM offering to sell XP preinstalled
after that date would be sufficient.
And you stated no new machine can come with XP since last year. And
that isn't true either. As that wouldn't happen until 2015.
See above, according to Microsoft you are incorrect.
And since Microsoft has set these end dates before and ended up
extending them time and time again. I won't be surprised if new
machines with XP installed may continue after this date as well.
But, that extension didn't happen. The ability to sell machines with
XP factory preinstalled by the OEM ended October 22, 2010. Done. End
of story. I lived it, it happened.
Remember Microsoft tried to end all XP sales back in 2008. And that
didn't happen either.
But it has now happened, sorry to disappoint you.
--
Zaphod
Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.
B
BillW50
In Roy Smith typed:
Twisting the facts? I'm surprised at you Roy! No it is a bit more like a
wink-wink kind of deal. As can any consumer purchase a new computer
today with XP installed? You bet they can! No not generally at your
super mart, but there are plenty of places were you can purchase one. I
just did a Google search and tons of them show up. And if you want to
build your own new system yourself, there are many places that will sell
you a XP install disc including a COA. And all at the same prices that
the big stores offers you. It isn't all that hard Roy.
You are just twisting facts to suit your statements. Can you go to
your local Best Buy or Costco and buy a single PC with Windows XP
downgrade rights? I doubt it. What you are referring to is not
intended for the general public, instead it is intended for
corporations where they are more inclined to purchase multiple PCs at
a time.
Twisting the facts? I'm surprised at you Roy! No it is a bit more like a
wink-wink kind of deal. As can any consumer purchase a new computer
today with XP installed? You bet they can! No not generally at your
super mart, but there are plenty of places were you can purchase one. I
just did a Google search and tons of them show up. And if you want to
build your own new system yourself, there are many places that will sell
you a XP install disc including a COA. And all at the same prices that
the big stores offers you. It isn't all that hard Roy.
B
BillW50
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
You didn't disappoint me Zaphod! Microsoft says a lot of things and then
later change their minds. I have stated this over and over again in this
very thread alone. But I guess you just don't listen very well.
So what happened on the day of July 11, 2010 (one day before XP SP2
support was to be dropped) Zaphod? What? You don't remember you say?
That is right, Microsoft did one of their changing their mind acts once
again.
As on this day, Microsoft extended downgrade rights for Windows 7
Professional for another 10 years (that is until 2020 for you and me).
So why on Earth would Microsoft be so nice?
"Microsoft said it made the change to simplify the work in tracking
licensing rights for PCs, the continued popularity of Windows XP may
have had something to do with it. At Microsoft's Worldwide Partner
Conference (WPC), which opened Monday in Washington, D.C., a company
executive acknowledged that 74% of business computers still run XP."
http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...xtends_Windows_XP_downgrade_rights_until_2020
Gee 74% business computers still run XP? Don't dare to mention this in
the Windows 7 newsgroup. As they will just consider that as blasphemy!
;-)
Actually, you are mistaken. OEMs can no longer supply machines with
Windows XP preinstalled. That ended October 22, 2010, see
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/...nd-windows-server-2008-r2-service-pack-1.aspx,
buried in about paragraph 7, quote "As background, an OEM's ability to
generally offer downgrade facilitation options (e.g., preinstalling
Windows XP Professional on a new PC that includes end-user rights for
Windows 7 Professional) ends on October 22, 2010." Also, see
http://en.community.dell.com/dell-b.../07/windows-xp-rides-off-into-the-sunset.aspx
for Dell's announcement confirming the Microsoft policy and
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2010/09/08/dell-to-drop-preinstalled-windows-xp-option-this-month/,
and I'm sure there are others but that should do it.
As the original post came from Microsoft, and was confirmed in a
personal conversation with our Dell and Microsoft reps, I'll need more
than a ZDNet article that mis-quotes the original article if you want
to refute it. Certainly, downdrade rights to XP were extended, but
NOT the ability for OEMs to facilitate that downgrade by offering XP
factory preinstalled along with a Windows 7 license. If you care to
refute that, a simple link to an OEM offering to sell XP preinstalled
after that date would be sufficient.
See above, according to Microsoft you are incorrect.
But, that extension didn't happen. The ability to sell machines with
XP factory preinstalled by the OEM ended October 22, 2010. Done. End
of story. I lived it, it happened.
But it has now happened, sorry to disappoint you.
You didn't disappoint me Zaphod! Microsoft says a lot of things and then
later change their minds. I have stated this over and over again in this
very thread alone. But I guess you just don't listen very well.
So what happened on the day of July 11, 2010 (one day before XP SP2
support was to be dropped) Zaphod? What? You don't remember you say?
That is right, Microsoft did one of their changing their mind acts once
again.
As on this day, Microsoft extended downgrade rights for Windows 7
Professional for another 10 years (that is until 2020 for you and me).
So why on Earth would Microsoft be so nice?
"Microsoft said it made the change to simplify the work in tracking
licensing rights for PCs, the continued popularity of Windows XP may
have had something to do with it. At Microsoft's Worldwide Partner
Conference (WPC), which opened Monday in Washington, D.C., a company
executive acknowledged that 74% of business computers still run XP."
http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...xtends_Windows_XP_downgrade_rights_until_2020
Gee 74% business computers still run XP? Don't dare to mention this in
the Windows 7 newsgroup. As they will just consider that as blasphemy!
;-)
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
You didn't disappoint me Zaphod! Microsoft says a lot of things and
then later change their minds. I have stated this over and over
again in this very thread alone. But I guess you just don't listen
very well.
So what happened on the day of July 11, 2010 (one day before XP SP2
support was to be dropped) Zaphod? What? You don't remember you say?
That is right, Microsoft did one of their changing their mind acts
once again.
As on this day, Microsoft extended downgrade rights for Windows 7
Professional for another 10 years (that is until 2020 for you and
me). So why on Earth would Microsoft be so nice?
"Microsoft said it made the change to simplify the work in tracking
licensing rights for PCs, the continued popularity of Windows XP may
have had something to do with it. At Microsoft's Worldwide Partner
Conference (WPC), which opened Monday in Washington, D.C., a company
executive acknowledged that 74% of business computers still run XP."
http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...xtends_Windows_XP_downgrade_rights_until_2020
Gee 74% business computers still run XP? Don't dare to mention this
in the Windows 7 newsgroup. As they will just consider that as
blasphemy! ;-)
I've never disputed the availability of downgrade rights. Matter of
fact, our company's business relies on it. But as to the rest, I'll
simply refer to my statement several replies back:
Ta ta.
B
BillW50
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Ta ta! OEM XP licenses are still available. I've stated this many times
now. You just don't listen too well. Here is one place you can get one
for example.
http://www.tek-micro.com/
Instead of building your own new computer with XP and say you prefer to
buy one with an OEM XP already installed? Sure, again no problem. You
just purchase a new computer that has downgrade rights and has OEM XP
preinstalled. So what is the problem?
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Nope, you still can. Thanks to Windows 7 downgrade rights loophole.
Which may continue as it is written now until 2020. So we still have
plenty of time before Microsoft stops licensing new computers with XP
installed on them.
I've never disputed the availability of downgrade rights. Matter of
fact, our company's business relies on it. But as to the rest, I'll
simply refer to my statement several replies back:
Ta ta.
Ta ta! OEM XP licenses are still available. I've stated this many times
now. You just don't listen too well. Here is one place you can get one
for example.
http://www.tek-micro.com/
Instead of building your own new computer with XP and say you prefer to
buy one with an OEM XP already installed? Sure, again no problem. You
just purchase a new computer that has downgrade rights and has OEM XP
preinstalled. So what is the problem?
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
I'd love to see a source for that - as far as I can tell, it's been
over a year since you could buy any PC, netbook or otherwise, with XP
preinstalled.
Nope, you still can. Thanks to Windows 7 downgrade rights loophole.
Which may continue as it is written now until 2020. So we still have
plenty of time before Microsoft stops licensing new computers with XP
installed on them.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Ta ta! OEM XP licenses are still available.
Not from Microsoft, which is what you've been claiming. Only
left-over stock or "resold" licenses, many of which violate MS
licensing.
I've stated this many times now. You just don't listen too well.
Here is one place you can get one for example.
http://www.tek-micro.com/
You are kidding, right?
First, that link takes you to a company that can't even build a
website that works properly under IE8.
Second, from what I can tell it doesn't actually offer any new
systems - only systems that are refurbished, :"de-branded" (whatever
that means), etc.
Third, they aren't an OEM, and just because a third-rate used computer
products website happens to sell copies of XP or even PCs with XP
installed doesn't mean anything. Noone claimed you couldn't find XP
licenses today, just that you can't buy a new PC with XP preinstalled.
(Well, I suppose a garage/basement "system builder" could do a
home-built PC and find a leftover copy of XP to install on it and sell
it to you, but that isn't anywhere near the same thing as Microsoft
licensing XP on new PCs, or even an OEM preinstalling XP on new
systems.)
Instead of building your own new computer with XP and say you prefer
to buy one with an OEM XP already installed? Sure, again no problem.
You just purchase a new computer that has downgrade rights and has
OEM XP preinstalled. So what is the problem?
The problem is, you can't do what you are saying - that is, buy a new
computer from an OEM with XP preinstalled today. I wish it were so,
because if you could, our company would be doing it so we don't have
to do the downgrading ourselves.
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Nope, you still can. Thanks to Windows 7 downgrade rights loophole.
Which may continue as it is written now until 2020. So we still have
plenty of time before Microsoft stops licensing new computers with
XP installed on them.
Microsoft does not continue to license new computers with XP installed
on them. They have explicitly prohibited OEMs from preinstalling XP
on new systems. The "loophole" you are talking about does not allow
anyone, anywhere, to buy a new PC, laptop, netbook or anything else
with XP preinstalled. It only allows them, once they have bought a
system with a later version of Windows preinstalled installed, to
downgrade to XP themselves. A far cry from what you are claiming.
--
Zaphod
Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.
B
BillW50
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Many? You mean for some it doesn't violate MS licensing? If it doesn't
for some, then what is the problem?
No that was just one of many I found for XP install discs plus the COA.
That link wasn't meant to find new computers with downgrade rights. But
I found many under Google but didn't list them. As I figured other
people could do the very same as I did. I guess I guessed wrong in your
case. As I have to do everything myself, eh?
I haven't actually tried to buy one lately, but Google sure lists lots
of them. And your IT department doesn't want to do the downgrading
themselves? Boy that is pretty lazy if you ask me. It is actually very
easy to do. The process is the same as how the manufactures do it. You
don't think they actually install Windows from scratch with every single
PC they sell do you?
Microsoft doesn't, really? Then why does Google lists lots of them that
do? And what is stopping somebody from buying computers from Dell for
example, downgrading them, and reselling them (at a profit of course,
otherwise why bother)? As if Dell won't or can't (due to their contract
agreement), somebody else will (and can).
Another thing to think about is since full versions of XP Pro (with COA)
can be still bought for seemingly unlimited quantities for about 90
bucks. And if that sounds cheaper for you than using the downgrade
rights options, well who cares about downgrade rights then? Just buy XP
outright.
Not from Microsoft, which is what you've been claiming. Only
left-over stock or "resold" licenses, many of which violate MS
licensing.
Many? You mean for some it doesn't violate MS licensing? If it doesn't
for some, then what is the problem?
You are kidding, right?
First, that link takes you to a company that can't even build a
website that works properly under IE8.
Second, from what I can tell it doesn't actually offer any new
systems - only systems that are refurbished, :"de-branded" (whatever
that means), etc.
Third, they aren't an OEM, and just because a third-rate used computer
products website happens to sell copies of XP or even PCs with XP
installed doesn't mean anything. Noone claimed you couldn't find XP
licenses today, just that you can't buy a new PC with XP preinstalled.
(Well, I suppose a garage/basement "system builder" could do a
home-built PC and find a leftover copy of XP to install on it and sell
it to you, but that isn't anywhere near the same thing as Microsoft
licensing XP on new PCs, or even an OEM preinstalling XP on new
systems.)
No that was just one of many I found for XP install discs plus the COA.
That link wasn't meant to find new computers with downgrade rights. But
I found many under Google but didn't list them. As I figured other
people could do the very same as I did. I guess I guessed wrong in your
case. As I have to do everything myself, eh?
The problem is, you can't do what you are saying - that is, buy a new
computer from an OEM with XP preinstalled today. I wish it were so,
because if you could, our company would be doing it so we don't have
to do the downgrading ourselves.
I haven't actually tried to buy one lately, but Google sure lists lots
of them. And your IT department doesn't want to do the downgrading
themselves? Boy that is pretty lazy if you ask me. It is actually very
easy to do. The process is the same as how the manufactures do it. You
don't think they actually install Windows from scratch with every single
PC they sell do you?
Microsoft does not continue to license new computers with XP installed
on them. They have explicitly prohibited OEMs from preinstalling XP
on new systems. The "loophole" you are talking about does not allow
anyone, anywhere, to buy a new PC, laptop, netbook or anything else
with XP preinstalled. It only allows them, once they have bought a
system with a later version of Windows preinstalled installed, to
downgrade to XP themselves. A far cry from what you are claiming.
Microsoft doesn't, really? Then why does Google lists lots of them that
do? And what is stopping somebody from buying computers from Dell for
example, downgrading them, and reselling them (at a profit of course,
otherwise why bother)? As if Dell won't or can't (due to their contract
agreement), somebody else will (and can).
Another thing to think about is since full versions of XP Pro (with COA)
can be still bought for seemingly unlimited quantities for about 90
bucks. And if that sounds cheaper for you than using the downgrade
rights options, well who cares about downgrade rights then? Just buy XP
outright.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
Many? You mean for some it doesn't violate MS licensing? If it
doesn't for some, then what is the problem?
Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be one of your stronger points.
Leftover stock would be legitimate, resold licences may or may not be,
depending on their provenance. Caveat emptor.
No that was just one of many I found for XP install discs plus the
COA. That link wasn't meant to find new computers with downgrade
rights. But I found many under Google but didn't list them. As I
figured other people could do the very same as I did. I guess I
guessed wrong in your case. As I have to do everything myself, eh?
Well, your claim was that you could buy new PCs with XP preinstalled.
Your claim, your burden of proof. Ever since I called you on it,
you've tried to twist and squirm your way out of it, but the facts
still stand. You are wrong, but won't admit it, and instead when
asked to provide a link to an OEM selling new systems with XP
preinstalled, offered a link to that piece of trash third-rate vendor.
Now you say it wasn't intended to be, but rather snipped context to
make it look like it was an answer to a question not asked, that of
the availability of XP licences.
I haven't actually tried to buy one lately, but Google sure lists
lots of them.
If you've already Googled them, then provide a link, or admit your
error.
And your IT department doesn't want to do the downgrading
themselves? Boy that is pretty lazy if you ask me. It is actually
very easy to do. The process is the same as how the manufactures do
it. You don't think they actually install Windows from scratch with
every single PC they sell do you?
Of course not - they build an image for the configuration, and clone
the drives from the image. We can, and do, exactly that, and probably
know more about the process than you. But if we can purchase systems
preconfigured the way we want for the same price, and save the work,
that isn't laziness, it is efficiency.
The challencge still stands - provide a link to an OEM where you can
purchase new systems with XP preinstalled from the factory. Not a VAR
who will do it for you on your choice of kit (for a fee), but an
actual OEM as you originally claimed.
Microsoft doesn't, really? Then why does Google lists lots of them
that do?
You sure don't make much sense sometimes - Microsoft does not, and has
not, for quite some time, provided new licenses for XP. The fact that
there are still a few available out there as leftover stock or resold
stock doesn't mean what you said since Microsoft is not the same as
the people/companies you are finding on Google. If I made and sold
widgets, and stopped making and selling them to vendors, the fact that
the vendors have a few left that they can still sell does not mean I'm
still making widgets and selling them to vendors.
And what is stopping somebody from buying computers from Dell for
example, downgrading them, and reselling them (at a profit of
course, otherwise why bother)? As if Dell won't or can't (due to
their contract agreement), somebody else will (and can).
Indeed, they can, - which is, again, a very different thing that what
you've been claiming. By the way, those people are called VARs.
Another thing to think about is since full versions of XP Pro (with
COA) can be still bought for seemingly unlimited quantities for
about 90 bucks.
I would bet the quantities aren't as unlimited as you state -
centainly, not legitimate licenses.
And if that sounds cheaper for you than using the downgrade rights
options, well who cares about downgrade rights then? Just buy XP
outright.
Yet again, something new and completely different than what you've
been claiming all along with which to muddy the water. It will be
interesting to see how you spin this one out.
B
BillW50
In
Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension, I just wanted you to
clarify. ;-)
The burden of proof comes directly from Microsoft. Yet you don't accept
it. So what can I say if you don't trust what Microsoft says anyway?
You are truly lazy, eh?
The big manufactures are restricted to the contracts they sign with
Microsoft. And that is up to them to agree too. So I can't speak for
them. But back in the late 90's I heard lots of complaints that
Microsoft was a monopoly and they can't buy a machine without Windows.
And I said to this whole group that was total nonsense. Maybe among some
manufactures that they make deals with Microsoft that all of their
computers will be sold with Windows. And in return they will get a good
deal on Windows licenses. Many manufactures jumped on it for competitive
reasons alone. But if you didn't want to make that deal, Microsoft
couldn't control you in anyway.
And back then I offered a deal to this group. I didn't sign any deal
with Microsoft and I can build any computer I wanted too. And if I
wanted to sell any computer without Windows, well Microsoft couldn't do
a single thing about it.
And you remind me a lot like this group. You complain a lot but it is
all talk. As I offered to build computers to their specs and I promised
none of them would have Windows installed. Yet not a single one in this
group even ordered a single computer.
I am not surprised, as many other companies tried the very same thing.
And it just never works. As trying to sell computers without Windows
just isn't profitable. Sales is just so few that you just can't get the
numbers high enough to beat the mega manufactures who can buy at huge
discounts which includes Windows licenses.
So what you are saying is that getting XP through the black market is
plentiful. But getting XP through Microsoft channels is not. If so, then
why does Microsoft say downgrading to XP is ok through 2020? And I am
not making sense?
VARs? I dunno, it could be. All I know it is a piece of cake for
millions of people. And if an IT department is too lazy, I can see
somebody coming a long that can do it for almost nothing.
Well all I know is on Google they are so easy to find in huge
quantities. Are all of them legitimate? How would I know?
Spin out of what? If you are an individual or even a huge corporation
and want new computers with XP installed, it isn't a problem. As there
is always a source or somebody who is willing to do it for you for a
modest cost. How long can this continue? Until 2020 it looks like. ;-)
Zaphod said:Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be one of your stronger points.
Leftover stock would be legitimate, resold licences may or may not be,
depending on their provenance. Caveat emptor.
Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension, I just wanted you to
clarify. ;-)
Well, your claim was that you could buy new PCs with XP preinstalled.
Your claim, your burden of proof. Ever since I called you on it,
you've tried to twist and squirm your way out of it, but the facts
still stand. You are wrong, but won't admit it, and instead when
asked to provide a link to an OEM selling new systems with XP
preinstalled, offered a link to that piece of trash third-rate vendor.
Now you say it wasn't intended to be, but rather snipped context to
make it look like it was an answer to a question not asked, that of
the availability of XP licences.
The burden of proof comes directly from Microsoft. Yet you don't accept
it. So what can I say if you don't trust what Microsoft says anyway?
If you've already Googled them, then provide a link, or admit your
error.
You are truly lazy, eh?
Of course not - they build an image for the configuration, and clone
the drives from the image. We can, and do, exactly that, and probably
know more about the process than you. But if we can purchase systems
preconfigured the way we want for the same price, and save the work,
that isn't laziness, it is efficiency.
The challencge still stands - provide a link to an OEM where you can
purchase new systems with XP preinstalled from the factory. Not a VAR
who will do it for you on your choice of kit (for a fee), but an
actual OEM as you originally claimed.
The big manufactures are restricted to the contracts they sign with
Microsoft. And that is up to them to agree too. So I can't speak for
them. But back in the late 90's I heard lots of complaints that
Microsoft was a monopoly and they can't buy a machine without Windows.
And I said to this whole group that was total nonsense. Maybe among some
manufactures that they make deals with Microsoft that all of their
computers will be sold with Windows. And in return they will get a good
deal on Windows licenses. Many manufactures jumped on it for competitive
reasons alone. But if you didn't want to make that deal, Microsoft
couldn't control you in anyway.
And back then I offered a deal to this group. I didn't sign any deal
with Microsoft and I can build any computer I wanted too. And if I
wanted to sell any computer without Windows, well Microsoft couldn't do
a single thing about it.
And you remind me a lot like this group. You complain a lot but it is
all talk. As I offered to build computers to their specs and I promised
none of them would have Windows installed. Yet not a single one in this
group even ordered a single computer.
I am not surprised, as many other companies tried the very same thing.
And it just never works. As trying to sell computers without Windows
just isn't profitable. Sales is just so few that you just can't get the
numbers high enough to beat the mega manufactures who can buy at huge
discounts which includes Windows licenses.
You sure don't make much sense sometimes - Microsoft does not, and has
not, for quite some time, provided new licenses for XP. The fact that
there are still a few available out there as leftover stock or resold
stock doesn't mean what you said since Microsoft is not the same as
the people/companies you are finding on Google. If I made and sold
widgets, and stopped making and selling them to vendors, the fact that
the vendors have a few left that they can still sell does not mean I'm
still making widgets and selling them to vendors.
So what you are saying is that getting XP through the black market is
plentiful. But getting XP through Microsoft channels is not. If so, then
why does Microsoft say downgrading to XP is ok through 2020? And I am
not making sense?
Indeed, they can, - which is, again, a very different thing that what
you've been claiming. By the way, those people are called VARs.
VARs? I dunno, it could be. All I know it is a piece of cake for
millions of people. And if an IT department is too lazy, I can see
somebody coming a long that can do it for almost nothing.
I would bet the quantities aren't as unlimited as you state -
centainly, not legitimate licenses.
Well all I know is on Google they are so easy to find in huge
quantities. Are all of them legitimate? How would I know?
Yet again, something new and completely different than what you've
been claiming all along with which to muddy the water. It will be
interesting to see how you spin this one out.
Spin out of what? If you are an individual or even a huge corporation
and want new computers with XP installed, it isn't a problem. As there
is always a source or somebody who is willing to do it for you for a
modest cost. How long can this continue? Until 2020 it looks like. ;-)
C
Char Jackson
And I said to this whole group that was total nonsense. Maybe among some
manufactures that they make deals with Microsoft that all of their
computers will be sold with Windows. And in return they will get a good
deal on Windows licenses. Many manufactures jumped on it for competitive
reasons alone. But if you didn't want to make that deal, Microsoft
couldn't control you in anyway.
And back then I offered a deal to this group. I didn't sign any deal
with Microsoft and I can build any computer I wanted too. And if I
wanted to sell any computer without Windows, well Microsoft couldn't do
a single thing about it.
And you remind me a lot like this group. You complain a lot but it is
all talk. As I offered to build computers to their specs and I promised
none of them would have Windows installed. Yet not a single one in this
group even ordered a single computer.
Must. Bite. My. Tongue. AARRGGHH!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry, couldn't resist. I saw something about asking people to order a
computer from you and I just lost it. My bad. ;-)
B
BillW50
In
Why is that Char? Zillions against me alone in a case action lawsuit,
they have nothing to fear. As I was the one taking all of the risk. Yet
nobody had taken me up on it. Go figure, eh?
And even if they didn't want to purchase them from me, I was more than
willing to steer them to somebody else that could do the very same
thing. As I personally would have preferred that actually. As if the
truth to be known, you could purchase computers cheaper with Windows
installed than anybody else on the planet without Windows. And that is
the truth.
What these people who hated Microsoft didn't understand in the least bit
was... even if I hated Microsoft to the max, I wouldn't complain one
bit. As this massive drive for Windows machines only made all computers
cheaper by the minute. So even if I never used a single piece of
Microsoft software in my life. I still would thank Microsoft for driving
the hardware prices so ridiculously low anyway, so why wouldn't I? But
you know complainers, they just don't get it.
That is the problem with loud mouths and you solve their problems and
yet they still don't take your advice. They just want to complain for no
reason at all. They are not interested in solutions, just want to
complain. Yes I know some (dare I say most?) women act just this way
(although they have a reason and it isn't logical). And that is a given.
But when a man acts this way, there is something seriously wrong.
Char said:Must. Bite. My. Tongue. AARRGGHH!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry, couldn't resist. I saw something about asking people to order a
computer from you and I just lost it. My bad. ;-)
Why is that Char? Zillions against me alone in a case action lawsuit,
they have nothing to fear. As I was the one taking all of the risk. Yet
nobody had taken me up on it. Go figure, eh?
And even if they didn't want to purchase them from me, I was more than
willing to steer them to somebody else that could do the very same
thing. As I personally would have preferred that actually. As if the
truth to be known, you could purchase computers cheaper with Windows
installed than anybody else on the planet without Windows. And that is
the truth.
What these people who hated Microsoft didn't understand in the least bit
was... even if I hated Microsoft to the max, I wouldn't complain one
bit. As this massive drive for Windows machines only made all computers
cheaper by the minute. So even if I never used a single piece of
Microsoft software in my life. I still would thank Microsoft for driving
the hardware prices so ridiculously low anyway, so why wouldn't I? But
you know complainers, they just don't get it.
That is the problem with loud mouths and you solve their problems and
yet they still don't take your advice. They just want to complain for no
reason at all. They are not interested in solutions, just want to
complain. Yes I know some (dare I say most?) women act just this way
(although they have a reason and it isn't logical). And that is a given.
But when a man acts this way, there is something seriously wrong.
C
Char Jackson
In
Why is that Char?
I'm sorry, I thought you knew. It's because you repeatedly demonstrate
that you know next to nothing about computers. They say a sucker is
born every minute, but I guess not. You've restored a bit of my faith
in humanity. I appreciate it.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:In
Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension, I just wanted you to
clarify. ;-)
The burden of proof comes directly from Microsoft. Yet you don't
accept it. So what can I say if you don't trust what Microsoft says
anyway?
You are truly lazy, eh?
The big manufactures are restricted to the contracts they sign with
Microsoft. And that is up to them to agree too. So I can't speak for
them. But back in the late 90's I heard lots of complaints that
Microsoft was a monopoly and they can't buy a machine without
Windows.
And I said to this whole group that was total nonsense. Maybe among
some manufactures that they make deals with Microsoft that all of
their computers will be sold with Windows. And in return they will
get a good deal on Windows licenses. Many manufactures jumped on it
for competitive reasons alone. But if you didn't want to make that
deal, Microsoft couldn't control you in anyway.
And back then I offered a deal to this group. I didn't sign any deal
with Microsoft and I can build any computer I wanted too. And if I
wanted to sell any computer without Windows, well Microsoft couldn't
do a single thing about it.
And you remind me a lot like this group. You complain a lot but it
is all talk. As I offered to build computers to their specs and I
promised none of them would have Windows installed. Yet not a single
one in this group even ordered a single computer.
I am not surprised, as many other companies tried the very same
thing. And it just never works. As trying to sell computers without
Windows just isn't profitable. Sales is just so few that you just
can't get the numbers high enough to beat the mega manufactures who
can buy at huge discounts which includes Windows licenses.
So what you are saying is that getting XP through the black market
is plentiful. But getting XP through Microsoft channels is not. If
so, then why does Microsoft say downgrading to XP is ok through
2020? And I am not making sense?
VARs? I dunno, it could be. All I know it is a piece of cake for
millions of people. And if an IT department is too lazy, I can see
somebody coming a long that can do it for almost nothing.
Well all I know is on Google they are so easy to find in huge
quantities. Are all of them legitimate? How would I know?
Spin out of what? If you are an individual or even a huge
corporation and want new computers with XP installed, it isn't a
problem. As there is always a source or somebody who is willing to
do it for you for a modest cost. How long can this continue? Until
2020 it looks like. ;-)
You make less and less sense with each post. Not sure if you are off
your meds or need to adjust your dosage, or are under the influence,
or what, but I'm done. You have shown you aren't capable of backing
up your claims, and it is evident to anyone here that you have little
to know real knowledge of even the fundamentals of computing, let
alone the finer points.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Zaphod Beeblebrox said:You make less and less sense with each post. Not sure if you are
off your meds or need to adjust your dosage, or are under the
influence, or what, but I'm done. You have shown you aren't capable
of backing up your claims, and it is evident to anyone here that you
have little to know real knowledge of even the fundamentals of
computing, let alone the finer points.
That would be "little to no real knowledge", of course.
B
BillW50
In
Always joking around and you can never be serious. Nor can you read
either. As I have to say something over and over again and you still
don't understand. So what are you good for?
As for me, I am the only one posting links and providing references.
While you just totally ignore them. And if you actually know something
about computers, you failed to ever demonstrate any of it.
--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
..
Zaphod said:That would be "little to no real knowledge", of course.
Always joking around and you can never be serious. Nor can you read
either. As I have to say something over and over again and you still
don't understand. So what are you good for?
As for me, I am the only one posting links and providing references.
While you just totally ignore them. And if you actually know something
about computers, you failed to ever demonstrate any of it.
--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
..
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