N
N. Miller
You must be doing something wrong. My Windows 7 is not slower than Windows
XP was, nor is it less stable.
You must be doing something wrong. My Windows 7 is not slower than Windows
XP was, nor is it less stable.
T
Todd
I run both W7 and XP on virtual machines (KVM and Virtual Box) on two
separate servers. The difference is remarkable. Also, as a system
builder, I have had several opportunities to run XP and W7 side by
side on the same hardware. Again, the difference is remarkable. And,
as a consultant, I have had numerous customers almost in tears over
the instability of Vista and W7 (mostly Vista). If I can switch them
back to XP, again the difference is remarkable . I have also had the
experience of the constant minor crash and silent roll back removing
all the W7 configuration I put in place days before. It is a real
nuisance (the work around is to create five restore points before
leaving the customer's site).
The only thing I can think of that would explain our different
experience is that we have just had different experiences.
If you ever get a chance to run XP against W7 on the same hardware,
you will be really, really pissed.
-T
P.S. I love to remove the confusing Aero theme!
And, if you do the "super tweak" you can speed up W7 close to XP.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Should try DOS on the same hardware - that sucker flat out screams!
(Only somewhat joking - I do run DOS on modern harware forvarious reasons upon occasion and I'm amazed at the performance. Kind
of lacking many featues I've come to appreciate, however...)
Of all of the changes in Win7 vs. XP, Aero is one of the least
problematic, much less confusing, changes. But I'm curious - what do
you replace it with?
What, may I ask, is this "super tweak"?
--
Zaphod
Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.
T
Todd
Should try DOS on the same hardware - that sucker flat out screams!
various reasons upon occasion and I'm amazed at the performance. Kind
of lacking many featues I've come to appreciate, however...)
Oh DOS does scream on modern hardware!
If you get a chance, try Linux too. Not real practical with almost
zero apps to run on it. But it does scream. 40% faster than XP
on the same hardware.
One of the windows themes just below the aero themes. I do not
like the fuzzy decorations in Aero. I have to work at finding my
decoration command, such as the "X". Some customers like it though.
I constantly have to remind myself that the "P" in PC stands for
personal. The object is to please the customer and not inject too
much of my own opinion into the mix.
http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/supertweaks.htm
http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/7tip.htm
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Todd said:
Oh, I thought you had some tweak that was new and innovative. This is
the same old bag of tricks many of us have been doing since before XP.
Since these tweaks apply to both XP and W7, how can they "speed up W7
close to XP"? Presumably you would apply them to both...
--
Zaphod
Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's
something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the
universe gets that.
N
N. Miller
I don't run Windows 7 in any kind of virtual machine.
I have not had the opportunity to run Windows 7 and Windows XP side by side
on the same hardware; except once. As you state, the difference is
"remarkable". Contrary to what you state, Windows 7 was faster. Granted,
both boxes were billed as, "Windows Vista Ready".
Three Windows 7 boxes on the premises, and three others supported elsewhere.
Granted, probably not as significant a quantity as you have seen, but I have
never seen anybody close to tears over the instability of Windows 7.
I have never seen that. Ever.
You think?
I have two boxes with Windows XP, against three with Windows 7. One of the
Windows XP boxes is painfully slow. The other is not significantly slower,
but definitely not faster.
I am not confused by the Aero theme. It is just another "skin".
I have no way to test this; I have no Windows XP machine which is faster
than any of my Windows 7 machines.
N
N. Miller
Yes to all except compatibility; but I hardly expect compatibility for my
old 16-bit applications; those run poorly even on Windows XP, if they run at
all.
Windows 7 is no harder to use than Windows XP, in my experience.
I found two "must have" devices which had no official Windows 7 support;
sort of. One was fixed with a registry tweak. The other wasn't "fixed", so
much as simply not used. I figured out how to add the printer using the
native Windows 7 "Standard TCP/IP port". Same trick works on Windows XP, or
the Netgear printer driver software isn't even necessary. So who care that
it doesn't install under Windows 7.
P
philo
I do not have a touch screen monitor
just a regular monitor and a mouse
C
Char Jackson
Rather than create multiple restore points, I think I'd just disable
the system restore service entirely if you're having that much
trouble.
My guess is that the mysterious system rollbacks you're reporting are
simply the customer choosing to do a system restore for some reason,
thus losing the config changes you've put in place. Disable system
restore and they won't be so quick to undo your work.
B
BillW50
In
Really? Apparently you haven't been trying hard enough yet. For example,
I've been trying to get OE6 to run under Windows 7 for a few years now.
And trust me, it is so very hard. Not even making a portable version of
OE6 works under Windows 7.
N. Miller said:
Really? Apparently you haven't been trying hard enough yet. For example,
I've been trying to get OE6 to run under Windows 7 for a few years now.
And trust me, it is so very hard. Not even making a portable version of
OE6 works under Windows 7.
B
BillW50
In
I've been running Linux for many years. And if Linux runs 40% faster for
you, then something is wrong with your XP machine. As my dozen or so XP
machines runs circles around Linux. For example, when I run Linux on a
EeePC with 2GB of RAM and use an external 1440x900 monitor and open a
video to full screen, Linux is way too slow to keep up. Although XP on
the same machine, the frame rate is at least 30 times faster.
Todd said:
I've been running Linux for many years. And if Linux runs 40% faster for
you, then something is wrong with your XP machine. As my dozen or so XP
machines runs circles around Linux. For example, when I run Linux on a
EeePC with 2GB of RAM and use an external 1440x900 monitor and open a
video to full screen, Linux is way too slow to keep up. Although XP on
the same machine, the frame rate is at least 30 times faster.
B
BillW50
In
Luckily I have dozens of computers and I can flatly tell you Windows 7
is far slower than XP. Try Windows 7 on a single core processor for
example. There is a huge difference in speed. Heck Windows 7 on an
EeePC, Windows 7 eats 50% of the CPU power just at idle. And forget
trying to do something useful, as then it really crawls. And my EeePCs
all have 2GB of RAM to boot (so you can't blame there isn't enough RAM).
I have also ran Windows 7 on other single core machines too. And it is
always a disappoint due to the lack of speed.
On two or more core machines, Windows 7 is pretty good. Here most users
won't probably see any big difference. But even still, Windows 7 will
work the multiple core CPU harder and the CPU will get hotter than
running XP on the same machine. I know, I see this all of the time.
N. Miller said:
Luckily I have dozens of computers and I can flatly tell you Windows 7
is far slower than XP. Try Windows 7 on a single core processor for
example. There is a huge difference in speed. Heck Windows 7 on an
EeePC, Windows 7 eats 50% of the CPU power just at idle. And forget
trying to do something useful, as then it really crawls. And my EeePCs
all have 2GB of RAM to boot (so you can't blame there isn't enough RAM).
I have also ran Windows 7 on other single core machines too. And it is
always a disappoint due to the lack of speed.
On two or more core machines, Windows 7 is pretty good. Here most users
won't probably see any big difference. But even still, Windows 7 will
work the multiple core CPU harder and the CPU will get hotter than
running XP on the same machine. I know, I see this all of the time.
B
BillW50
In
Really? Then why did Henry Ford say: "Any customer can have a car
painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."
And Microsoft does understand there is a demand for XP. Why do you think
Microsoft is still selling OEM licenses to netbook manufactures? And
what do you think downgrade rights means? If Microsoft didn't really
care, none of this would be happening at all.
Todd said:
Really? Then why did Henry Ford say: "Any customer can have a car
painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."
And Microsoft does understand there is a demand for XP. Why do you think
Microsoft is still selling OEM licenses to netbook manufactures? And
what do you think downgrade rights means? If Microsoft didn't really
care, none of this would be happening at all.
B
BillW50
In
MS downgrade rights allows any previous version of Windows. I don't know
where you came up with one version back? For example if you wanted a
license for Windows 3.1, Microsoft says to buy Windows 7 with downgrade
rights and to use that license.
Downgrade Rights Details and FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/what_to_do_downgrade_rights.aspx
philo said:
MS downgrade rights allows any previous version of Windows. I don't know
where you came up with one version back? For example if you wanted a
license for Windows 3.1, Microsoft says to buy Windows 7 with downgrade
rights and to use that license.
Downgrade Rights Details and FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/what_to_do_downgrade_rights.aspx
B
BillW50
In
Whether supported by the manufacture doesn't mean a whole lot. As you
can still buy parts for your Ford Model T even though Ford doesn't
support it. And your statement is funnier since Microsoft is still
selling OEM XP licenses.
Roy said:
Whether supported by the manufacture doesn't mean a whole lot. As you
can still buy parts for your Ford Model T even though Ford doesn't
support it. And your statement is funnier since Microsoft is still
selling OEM XP licenses.
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:
According to this web page, Microsoft stopped selling XP OEM licenses
a year ago:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle, which
matches my experience in acquiring systems and OEM licenses (both from
Dell and direct through MS).
Z
Zaphod Beeblebrox
BillW50 said:
I'd love to see a source for that - as far as I can tell, it's been
over a year since you could buy any PC, netbook or otherwise, with XP
preinstalled.
--
Zaphod
Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's
something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the
universe gets that.
M
Mayayana
| Why do you think
| Microsoft is still selling OEM licenses to netbook manufactures?
Because Ford is in bed with the gasoline companies, so
to speak, and it came back to bite them.
Microsoft keeps bloating out the newer products so that
they can't run on old hardware. They bloated a car
up to an oversized pickup with XP. With Vista/7 it became
an 18-wheeler. The Microsofties were expecting to just
barrel down the highway, forcing everyone to buy a new
rig. But it turned out the road map was leading onto
a small dirt road named Netbook-Tablet-Smartphone Way.
Their XP pickup can barely pass. The Vista/7 18-wheeler
has no chance of getting through.
I don't know whether MS is still directly selling XP for
netbooks, but the only reason they ever did was simply
because the products were out there and Vista/7 is too
bloated to run on them.
Microsoft consistently tries to outmode products as
quickly as possible. They don't continue support until
there's no demand. They continue support until they
can get away with ending it. It's important to recognize
that their main business is not software but monopoly
maintenance. The only part of their business that turns
a profit is selling new copies of Windows and Office to
people who don't really need the update. Everything
else loses money. (Unless you count the borderline
performance of X-Box as profit.... or one might want to
count their promising new patent troll business.)
I built a new XP PC not
long ago and found very few XP disks available, and many
of those were Dell disks. I'm guessing they're leftovers
that Dell is trying to dump. I'd also guess that MS has
been pressuring retailers, as some claimed that XP
could no longer be sold. (If I remember correctly, I was
buying hardware from TigerDirect, and they claimed that
XP was no longer available. So I had to go elsewhere
for the XP CD.)
| Microsoft is still selling OEM licenses to netbook manufactures?
Because Ford is in bed with the gasoline companies, so
to speak, and it came back to bite them.
Microsoft keeps bloating out the newer products so that
they can't run on old hardware. They bloated a car
up to an oversized pickup with XP. With Vista/7 it became
an 18-wheeler. The Microsofties were expecting to just
barrel down the highway, forcing everyone to buy a new
rig. But it turned out the road map was leading onto
a small dirt road named Netbook-Tablet-Smartphone Way.
Their XP pickup can barely pass. The Vista/7 18-wheeler
has no chance of getting through.
I don't know whether MS is still directly selling XP for
netbooks, but the only reason they ever did was simply
because the products were out there and Vista/7 is too
bloated to run on them.
Microsoft consistently tries to outmode products as
quickly as possible. They don't continue support until
there's no demand. They continue support until they
can get away with ending it. It's important to recognize
that their main business is not software but monopoly
maintenance. The only part of their business that turns
a profit is selling new copies of Windows and Office to
people who don't really need the update. Everything
else loses money. (Unless you count the borderline
performance of X-Box as profit.... or one might want to
count their promising new patent troll business.)
I built a new XP PC not
long ago and found very few XP disks available, and many
of those were Dell disks. I'm guessing they're leftovers
that Dell is trying to dump. I'd also guess that MS has
been pressuring retailers, as some claimed that XP
could no longer be sold. (If I remember correctly, I was
buying hardware from TigerDirect, and they claimed that
XP was no longer available. So I had to go elsewhere
for the XP CD.)
B
BillW50
In
Yes, but you still can thanks to the loophole called downgrade rights:
"Microsoft defines downgrade righs as 'an OEM's ability to generally
offer downgrade facilitation options (e.g., preinstalling Windows XP
Professional on a new PC that includes end-user rights for Windows 7
Professional).'"
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...from-microsoft/6819?tag=content;siu-container
Zaphod said:
Yes, but you still can thanks to the loophole called downgrade rights:
"Microsoft defines downgrade righs as 'an OEM's ability to generally
offer downgrade facilitation options (e.g., preinstalling Windows XP
Professional on a new PC that includes end-user rights for Windows 7
Professional).'"
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft...from-microsoft/6819?tag=content;siu-container
B
BillW50
In
Yes, well.... :-O
Well bloat isn't really Microsoft's fault. It is due to Moore's Law. My
first few computers were 8 bit and back then if a program was larger
than say 32KB, it was called bloated. Those days are long gone.
And it is funny that Microsoft had planned to phrase out XP sales back
in 2008. Although Asus started manufacturing the first netbooks back in
2007. Many experts claimed that nobody would buy a netbook (I laughed
when I heard that). And Asus wasn't putting Windows on them since a
Windows OEM license was so expensive. So they had put Linux on them
instead (but including XP drivers to install your own XP).
Well the experts turned out to be wrong (of course, what else is new?).
As Asus was selling them like hotcakes. Other major manufactures ended
up quickly designing their own netbook models (except Apple). And
Microsoft was sweating bullets. So they extended the sale of OEM
licenses and lowered the Windows OEM license for netbooks which was now
more affordable.
It was great for everybody (except for Linux). As consumers didn't like
Linux for the most part. And most of them had installed their own
Windows on them anyway. And once Windows was available on netbooks,
nobody wanted the ones with Linux on them. And the rest is history. ;-)
Well I did some checking and apparently they don't generally sell XP on
netbooks anymore. Although there is a loophole in the law called
downgrade rights that still allows manufactures to sell XP on new
machines till January 15, 2015.
Well since about 90% of computers sold come with an OEM license copy of
Microsoft Windows. It still is a pretty good business to be in.
Yes I can't find XP at places like TigerDirect or Newegg either. But
there are other places you still can. Like this one for example.
Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP3 - Full Version w/ COA
http://www.tek-micro.com/products/M...Version.html?gclid=CLOggpmf8awCFacEQAodAFN7KA
Mayayana said:
Yes, well.... :-O
Well bloat isn't really Microsoft's fault. It is due to Moore's Law. My
first few computers were 8 bit and back then if a program was larger
than say 32KB, it was called bloated. Those days are long gone.
And it is funny that Microsoft had planned to phrase out XP sales back
in 2008. Although Asus started manufacturing the first netbooks back in
2007. Many experts claimed that nobody would buy a netbook (I laughed
when I heard that). And Asus wasn't putting Windows on them since a
Windows OEM license was so expensive. So they had put Linux on them
instead (but including XP drivers to install your own XP).
Well the experts turned out to be wrong (of course, what else is new?).
As Asus was selling them like hotcakes. Other major manufactures ended
up quickly designing their own netbook models (except Apple). And
Microsoft was sweating bullets. So they extended the sale of OEM
licenses and lowered the Windows OEM license for netbooks which was now
more affordable.
It was great for everybody (except for Linux). As consumers didn't like
Linux for the most part. And most of them had installed their own
Windows on them anyway. And once Windows was available on netbooks,
nobody wanted the ones with Linux on them. And the rest is history. ;-)
Well I did some checking and apparently they don't generally sell XP on
netbooks anymore. Although there is a loophole in the law called
downgrade rights that still allows manufactures to sell XP on new
machines till January 15, 2015.
Well since about 90% of computers sold come with an OEM license copy of
Microsoft Windows. It still is a pretty good business to be in.
Yes I can't find XP at places like TigerDirect or Newegg either. But
there are other places you still can. Like this one for example.
Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP3 - Full Version w/ COA
http://www.tek-micro.com/products/M...Version.html?gclid=CLOggpmf8awCFacEQAodAFN7KA