Will Microsoft ever issue an apology to IE 6 users?

[Guest]

I've both experienced and read about others experiencing the maddening
crashes in IE 6 brought about by the infamous "security updates" of the last
week in August.
While the technical spin-doctors try to blame the all too convenient
scapegoats of spyware and malware for this situation, the blame should be
placed where it belongs. The only "malware" causing these crashes are the
latest poorly written and tested "updates". There really is no excuse to
inflict such buggy software on the many trusting IE 6 users. They must repair
the damage to IE 6 as soon as possible.
If Microsoft prides itself on being a successful business, then perhaps they
need to pay more attention to a very old and long-established business
equation.

Angry customers + available competitive products = lost customers

 

[Charlie Tame]

I've both experienced and read about others experiencing the maddening
crashes in IE 6 brought about by the infamous "security updates" of the
last
week in August.
While the technical spin-doctors try to blame the all too convenient
scapegoats of spyware and malware for this situation, the blame should be
placed where it belongs. The only "malware" causing these crashes are the
latest poorly written and tested "updates". There really is no excuse to
inflict such buggy software on the many trusting IE 6 users. They must
repair
the damage to IE 6 as soon as possible.
If Microsoft prides itself on being a successful business, then perhaps
they
need to pay more attention to a very old and long-established business
equation.

Angry customers + available competitive products = lost customers

Try not to let any facts get in the way eh?

 

[verb]

Try not to let any facts get in the way eh?

Have the problems been fixed yet?

 

[antioch]

I've both experienced and read about others experiencing the maddening
crashes in IE 6 brought about by the infamous "security updates" of the
last
week in August.
While the technical spin-doctors try to blame the all too convenient
scapegoats of spyware and malware for this situation, the blame should be
placed where it belongs. The only "malware" causing these crashes are the
latest poorly written and tested "updates". There really is no excuse to
inflict such buggy software on the many trusting IE 6 users. They must
repair
the damage to IE 6 as soon as possible.
If Microsoft prides itself on being a successful business, then perhaps
they
need to pay more attention to a very old and long-established business
equation.

Angry customers + available competitive products = lost customers

Will MS ever apologise - don't hold your breath.
They haven't re WGA etc - another disaster from them.
Whilst there are many who trouble-shoot for them in these
groups they don't need to provide any form of Customer Services.
Antioch

 

[Charlie Tame]

Have the problems been fixed yet?

There have no been any problems with updates that I have seen on any "Clean"
machines. Basically we do not install fancy third party stuff or junk and
experience very few problems, we DO install updates regularly as they become
available. There have been problems with older software that was basically
written for MS-DOS - but that's the software's fault not the updates. Have
not yet seen anything that needs fixing.

 

[antioch]

Hi Charlie
Replies spliced/intertwined etc and contextualised
Rghds
Antioch


Clipped -

There have no been any problems with updates that I have seen on any
"Clean" machines. Basically we do not install fancy third party stuff or
junk and experience very few problems, we DO install updates regularly as
they become available. There have been problems with older software that
was basically written for MS-DOS - but that's the software's fault not
the updates. Have not yet seen anything that needs fixing.

You must run a very tight ship then, assuming your above comments refer to
machines you supervise/look after.
But I would say that judging by the huge number of complaints re the last
Black Tuesday in the windows updates group, there were few where the advice
suggested a dirty computer.
I don't think I have seen such a large number in previous months.
But then you say 'there have no been any problems with updates' and a few
lines later you say ' experience very few problems'.
I keep my own computer lean and mean - I could not even get to the WU home
page to start with, either direct from Start or via the web - a common
problem for many.
Those on/with servers also seemed to have been hit hard in August.

In two days we will all be going through the same debacle all over again. I
feel sorry for those who are still trying to solve the August updates. :-(
I wish you and everyone else the best of 'luck' with their updates - as luck
seems to figure in it more each month.
Rgds
Antioch

 

[Richard in AZ]

Have the problems been fixed yet?

I have a 5 machine home network. I keep my antivirus, antispyware, firewalls up-to-date and have
never had any problems with IE, or OE, or Windows. My access through FireFox has be stopped by
several web sites that do not allow access with this software.
Why would I expect MS to apologize?

 

[Guest]

Try not to let any facts get in the way eh?

If you'd like some facts, here they are:

I run Windows XP Pro latest version, use IE 6 and OE. I use the automatic
update feature. I run 3 different virus & spyware detection programs at LEAST
once a week and very often several times to be on the safe side. Prior to the
day in question I visited only two trusted bookmarked websites. As chance
would have it I ran a virus check right after just before shutting down.
(Clean as usual by the way.)
The next day I got the notification saying there was a Microsoft update
needing installation, so installed it. When I got on the web next time the
problems began:
1) inability to access the same bookmarked sites by IE 6 crashing
2) unable to access any site reliably from IE 6 (random crashing)

Thoroughly alarmed I ran my 3 (up to date) virus & spyware checkers. (Clean
as usual). I even ran Microsoft's Windows One Live scan as per the error
messages suggestion. Result: CLEAN system.

The only thing installed during the period in question was the official
Microsoft update.

Now, what other conclusion can reasonably be drawn other than the "update"
was the source of the trouble?

 

[Guest]

Will MS ever apologise - don't hold your breath.
They haven't re WGA etc - another disaster from them.
Whilst there are many who trouble-shoot for them in these
groups they don't need to provide any form of Customer Services.
Antioch

I hear you Antioch.

It seems there are a large number of Microsoft defenders who are unwilling
to accept any hint of fallibility in that organization or its products. Would
it really hurt them that much to admit that Microsoft is made up of people
who are equally capable of making mistakes like anyone else?

 

[Richard in AZ]

I run Windows XP Pro latest version, use IE 6 and OE. I use the automatic
update feature. I run 3 different virus & spyware detection programs at LEAST
once a week and very often several times to be on the safe side. Prior to the
day in question I visited only two trusted bookmarked websites. As chance
would have it I ran a virus check right after just before shutting down.
(Clean as usual by the way.)
The next day I got the notification saying there was a Microsoft update
needing installation, so installed it. When I got on the web next time the
problems began:
1) inability to access the same bookmarked sites by IE 6 crashing
2) unable to access any site reliably from IE 6 (random crashing)

Thoroughly alarmed I ran my 3 (up to date) virus & spyware checkers. (Clean
as usual). I even ran Microsoft's Windows One Live scan as per the error
messages suggestion. Result: CLEAN system.

The only thing installed during the period in question was the official
Microsoft update.

Now, what other conclusion can reasonably be drawn other than the "update"
was the source of the trouble?

With the multitude of 3rd party crapware out there, how do you expect MS to guess at every possible
contamination. If you run a reasonably clean machine, the updates do no harm. If you like to
"adjust" your system. Then have a mirrored backup ready.

 

[Leythos]

I've both experienced and read about others experiencing the maddening
crashes in IE 6 brought about by the infamous "security updates" of the last
week in August.
While the technical spin-doctors try to blame the all too convenient
scapegoats of spyware and malware for this situation, the blame should be
placed where it belongs. The only "malware" causing these crashes are the
latest poorly written and tested "updates". There really is no excuse to
inflict such buggy software on the many trusting IE 6 users. They must repair
the damage to IE 6 as soon as possible.
If Microsoft prides itself on being a successful business, then perhaps they
need to pay more attention to a very old and long-established business
equation.

Angry customers + available competitive products = lost customers

Almost 2000 clean machines in our group, being used by all types of
users, and not one has been impacted by the Aug updates.

 

[Guest]

Almost 2000 clean machines in our group, being used by all types of
users, and not one has been impacted by the Aug updates.

I would consider your group most fortunate then.
However, it appears by the numerous threads posted in this discussion group
by people reporting the same symptoms on clean machines, that a problem
exists. And who knows how many others are also affected who don't post
messages.
Even Microsoft itself admits problems caused by an update issued by them.
Check the support.microsoft.com site and examine article ID number 923996.
It makes for very interesting reading.....especially the sub-sections titled
Summary and Cause.

 

[Charlie Tame]

I run Windows XP Pro latest version, use IE 6 and OE. I use the automatic
update feature. I run 3 different virus & spyware detection programs at
LEAST
once a week and very often several times to be on the safe side. Prior to
the
day in question I visited only two trusted bookmarked websites. As chance
would have it I ran a virus check right after just before shutting down.
(Clean as usual by the way.)
The next day I got the notification saying there was a Microsoft update
needing installation, so installed it. When I got on the web next time the
problems began:
1) inability to access the same bookmarked sites by IE 6 crashing
2) unable to access any site reliably from IE 6 (random crashing)

Thoroughly alarmed I ran my 3 (up to date) virus & spyware checkers.
(Clean
as usual). I even ran Microsoft's Windows One Live scan as per the error
messages suggestion. Result: CLEAN system.

The only thing installed during the period in question was the official
Microsoft update.

Now, what other conclusion can reasonably be drawn other than the "update"
was the source of the trouble?

Were the AV programs running when you installed updates?

What about the possibility that some damage had been done in the past ?

Seems to me a lot of people have "Favorite" utilities that make changes to
their systems in unusual ways, for example things like Norton Systemworks
that used to be so invasive it could not successfully be uninstalled?

 

[Charlie Tame]

With the multitude of 3rd party crapware out there, how do you expect MS
to guess at every possible contamination. If you run a reasonably clean
machine, the updates do no harm. If you like to "adjust" your system.
Then have a mirrored backup ready.

This is exactly true. I do think the hardware situation may be a factor in
many cases.

 

[Charlie Tame]

It seems there are a large number of Microsoft defenders who are unwilling
to accept any hint of fallibility in that organization or its products.
Would
it really hurt them that much to admit that Microsoft is made up of people
who are equally capable of making mistakes like anyone else?

Why try and place people in categories. You have offered "Anecdotal"
evidence that MS are to blame for problems you have experienced and expect
them to apologize which is about like trying to blame Ford when you fit bad
tires, or forget to put oil in the car. With the complexity of modern
systems and the vast amount of different hardware around it is impossible
for the OS maker to test every possible combination, particularly when user
interaction can and does make unforeseen changes to it.

 

[Charlie Tame]

However, it appears by the numerous threads posted in this discussion
group
by people reporting the same symptoms on clean machines, that a problem
exists. And who knows how many others are also affected who don't post
messages.

And this is your problem, these groups represent a tiny fraction of the
total MS users, remember nobody posts here to say "Hey, have had no trouble
for 2 years", they only post here because they have problems.

Even Microsoft itself admits problems caused by an update issued by them.
Check the support.microsoft.com site and examine article ID number 923996.
It makes for very interesting reading.....especially the sub-sections
titled
Summary and Cause.

Of course errors occur, but re-read your post to which I first replied and
see if this one example bears any resemblance to your rant ?

 

[Guest]

Why try and place people in categories. You have offered "Anecdotal"
evidence that MS are to blame for problems you have experienced and expect
them to apologize which is about like trying to blame Ford when you fit bad
tires, or forget to put oil in the car. With the complexity of modern
systems and the vast amount of different hardware around it is impossible
for the OS maker to test every possible combination, particularly when user
interaction can and does make unforeseen changes to it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Microsoft and it looks like we can agree to disagree on various issues.

However, if I can use your Ford analogy in regard to the current topic.
Of course I wouldn't blame Ford if I fit bad tires or forgot to put oil in a
car.
But I think I would hold them accountable if they installed an ignition
upgrade on a smoothly running car and after the installation the engine ran
rough.

 

[Leythos]

I would consider your group most fortunate then.
However, it appears by the numerous threads posted in this discussion group
by people reporting the same symptoms on clean machines, that a problem
exists. And who knows how many others are also affected who don't post
messages.
Even Microsoft itself admits problems caused by an update issued by them.
Check the support.microsoft.com site and examine article ID number 923996.
It makes for very interesting reading.....especially the sub-sections titled
Summary and Cause.

I'm not suggesting that it doesn't happen, but, after 30 years of using
computers, I feel that much of it is due to users/hardware in many
cases.

 

[Leythos]

Were the AV programs running when you installed updates?

For me, for over 30 years I've been using computers, and I've had AV
software for as long as it's been needed and I've never disabled it to
do any installation at all, not once, and it's never caused any problems
on the more than 2000+ machines I've experienced.

Yes, I know it can happen, but it does cause me to wonder about about a
lot of what we see/hear from posters and the limited information they
provide and the even more limited follow-up they provide later.