*How MSFT *Deliberately, Arrogantly, Egregiously, and Totally* Fails to Support their Products*


C

Chad Harris

Anyone associated with a NG in any way should be aware that Microsoft is
totally abdicating support for their prodcuts to Convergys of Ohio who flys
this support into the ground. It is hoped that those who work for
Microsoft, particularly developers, as well as those who don't will become
aware of Microsoft's total lack of support for their products.

If anyone from *Microsoft*, particularly the individuals named below, has
the guts to try to justify this egregiously poor excuse for support, please
let me know. It has to change. This is posted here because the SQL MSDE
and failure to support it is directly on point, and should be known and
understood by any developer within or without Microsoft. These are some
"fast facts" about Microsoft's Commitment to Support SQL MSDE 2000 in BCM
the Add-In to Outlook 2003 sold in the most expensive boxes of Office 2003.

Wake up!!!!!!!! Doug Burgum Sr. VP Microsoft Business Solutions, Steve
Sinofsky Sr. VP Office, Jeff Raikes, Group VP Productivity and
BusinessSolutions, Paul Flessner Senior VP Exchange, SQL, EBiz Division,
EricRudder Sr. VP Servers and Tools, Lindsay Sparks,Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, and SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward and particularly those
who adapted MSDE 2000 to Buggy BCM Version 1--aprimitive Beta in a package.
All of you are in a *deep sleep at the switch* when it comes to Microsoft
Support you have ceded to incompetent Convergys.

Couldn't BCM have been integrated into Outlook? A number of hints to get
BCM up and running are not anywhere on the Office Outlook BCM site nor in
KBs. The few that are reside in far flung KBs--a type of *Redmond/Dallas
campus Raiders of the Lost Ark Safari* (no Apple puns intended here).

Either change the boxes to Convergys and their logo and let Convergys take
over your company or support the products your developers and product
managers labor to turn out! You have totally abdicated that support.

A retail box of MOS 2003 Pro or SBE costs about $500--so that the BCM CD is
not a coaster, Microsoft needs to commit to support it--not just PR
spin--and get Convergys out of the way. They are a wall between you and
your customers as are your Phone Route Managers--so-called "MCSDMSCC DSTR
Team LeadProduct Support: 1-800-Microsoft.

Hexadecimal error messags with a couple hundred thousand characters are of
no direct help to end users. There needs to be a way to interpret these
messages in real time so there can the information gleaned can spell repair
efficacy.
________________________________________________________________________________

Mini-White Paper:

*How Microsoft *Totally* Fails to Stand Behind Microsoft Office and Support
TheirProducts Because of the Poor Quality of Their Contract Support;
Microsoft Support is an Oxymoron*


Hidden or camouflaged among the Longhorn, TechNet, and MSDN Evangelist
buzz/blogs and great initiatives in a company full of dedicated and
multi-talented people at MSFT is a phenomenon that truly contstitutes the
dirty underbelly of Microsoft--"support" that is not Microsoft at all--but
an abusive sham that is a lucrative contract held by Convergys of Ohio who
boasts on their web site that they have a staff full of attorneys who are
ex-staffers on the hill (in the American Congress), and that they provide
world class support. This is a prime rip off of Microsoft and it's
customers. Whether that means "don't mess with us" or "we get results and
our calls returned inside the Beltway" I don't know or really care. The
major call centers for Convergys of Ohio are in Nova Scotia and on
Newfoundland known by many in Canada as "the rock."

On their site, Convergys boasts they "take care of their customers." I'm
going to outline *how* they take care of their customers with a $500 box of
Office Pro or SBE. It's my understanding that Tony Soprano takes care of
his customers as well. "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" is the corporate ethos when it
comes to Microsoft's customers for Convergys.

This slogan on the page below should more accurately read "Dispose of Your
Customers With Convergys--How To Quintessentially Jerk Them Around and Dump
Them Fast and Show Complete Disdain For Them" Convergys reports revenues of
2.3 Billion, and can decimate the support for a $500 box of MOS 2003. Even
if Convergys employees know nothing about the product, that doesn't stop
them from charging full steam ahead with their unique and potent combo of
arrogance and ignorance.


Take "Better Care of Your Customers" With Convergys
http://www.convergys.com/company_overview.html#better_care

This is one aspect of Microsoft where Steve Sinofsky, Jeff Raikes, Doug
Burgum, Paul Flessner, Eric Rudder, Lindsay Sparks, Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward, and a number of others are
asleep at the switch.

If one goes to the Microsoft Office site and reads every possible web page
associated with Outlook and BCM, they will find none of the many hoops that
may be necessary to get BCM installed and up and running due to its use of
the MSDE 2000. The tack taken is rather to scatter a few (and leave many
out) of the tips throughout 15 KBs and construct a 'Redmond Raiders of the
Lost Ark' search.

Tech Support Microsoft style has been an enormously egregious time wasting
experience. I want to distinguish Microsoft from Convergys here for good
reason. I was having trouble associating BCM with Outlook. I had read all
KBs, and appreciated and took all the suggestions posted in the Outlook and
BCM public newsgroups, here and on the web. I did everything possible to
keep the MSDE 2000 data base engine "happy" with respect to user profile,
services started, and file and print sharing.

After talking with a number of contract support people who were not
Microsoft of course, but actually Convergys although they lied and claimed
they were Microsoft employees, and whose offerings consistently were to go
to the OL toolbar and add BCM and getting the same crashes over 100 times.
No less than 10 appointments were made during the month over a period of 4
hours for each two day tandem. My support case was "escalated" to "BCM
research" No one from Convergys ever kept the appointments, or had the
courtesy or common sense to call and say something got in the way of the
obligation.

This was of course extremely time wasteful because you have to be at the
machine ready to "work with them," and by a clear phone line. It also
meant while Microsoft employees are very conscious of their own schedules,
PDAs, Tablets, Laptops, "SharePoint workspace meetings", meeting requests
and meeting workspaces, and Outlook calendars and schedules, they could
care less about the time and obligations of anyone else. There was never an
apology for these missed appointments by the glorified Microsoft phone
router manager that the phone answering temps from still another company
referred me to. The problem of 10 four hour periods that were scheduled and
blown off was brushed aside. Imagine what might happen to you if you stand
Ballmer, Raikes, Sinofsky, Burghum, Flessner or Rudder up for a scheduled
meeting, let alone ten of them, and you're on their payroll.

When I called to try to find out what happened, after trying to email
several (e-mail address removed) I got emails from two Canadian Convergys
employees in Novascotia assuring me of escalation and prompt
calls but none came, nor were any actually planned.

Finally, after calling back I was told a call would be coming. The
gentleman said he had "1/2 hour," and essentially played what I now know is
the "Convergys BCM toolbar game" to hit the toolbar for a BCM add-in and
watch the crash. He asked me to email the error messages about 3 weeks
ago, said someone would be in touch and no one was. The error messages are
all in
hexadecimal; you can't paste them; and you have nothing with which to decode
them. I screen shot them, and I pasted the ones I could in text. I emailed
these to every SP listed who had owned the case as well as the managers at
Convergys who did not seem to know much about software in general, and
certainly Windows as I later found out when they called error messages
directed at NT Build 2600 the default XP Launch build a beta SP2 build.

I never heard from them. When I called and got a manger of call routers who
claimed he was a Microsoft employee, He was over the top hostile, and
said your only support option is our contractors--take it or leave it or
I'll end the case and prevent you rcalling. It was also clear he knew as
little about Office as he did about Windows which is also the index of
Convergys' level of skill.

I received an email the next day saying my case had been closed because Iwas
using a Beta OS. In fact, reproduced the same errors on Windows XP default
launch build, Windows XP SP1, and every current SP2 build. They had
nothing to do with the build ofWindows period.

The non-technical Canadian manager who killed the case didn't seem to give
me credit for having the trouble-shooting sense to uninstalling a Beta and
BCM and to reinstall them which I had done weeks before the case was
"escalated" or asking for help. This is an old Convergys ploy. They'll
do anything they can to squirm out of support, particularly in a case like
this where they know nothing about BCM.

Convergys also does Comcast support. A couple years ago just before the
XP launch, they were telling people that Windows XP did not workwell with
Comcast's suste,. so that they could blow off support calls when
disconnections from the internet were due to problems on the line beyond the
tap, and upstream line decibel readings were well outside normal limits. I
pointed out that Bill Gates bankrolled Comcast's start and this
was absurd since Windows XP has a number of networking and broadband
configuration enhancements compared to other OS's and Wintendo (Win 9X), and
those are well discussed in the archives of TechNet, MSDN, and the XP web
pages on Microsoft's site that reference networking--some written by MS
MVPs.

A cracked RJ6 cable outside and several hardware problems beyond the cable
tap were the problem. This was Convergys being Convergys and I might add,
not being Microsoft. Convergys will do anything to weasle out of support,
because with them, the emperor has no clothes and they know little about
much of the software they are purported to have SPs (service professionals)
for.

In other words, Microsoft who touts that they make excellent software
products contracts with some of the most incompetent support on the planet.

After I pointed out the only move several Convergys tech support people
including their BCM "research" team had was to click on the toolbar to try
to add in BCM, and had little understanding of the use of the SQL server
MSDN 2000 that had been adapted as a miniversion for BCM, or the KBs the
phone routing supervisor who alleged he was a MS employee in a suburb near
Redmond snarled to take it or leave it and I got an email stating the same
thing.

This made me wonder: If Mr. Sinofsky and Mr. Raikes were getting the same
crash, would they sit at their desks and click on the toolbar for months and
embrace the Microsoft phone manager's mandate to keep on keeping on?

If I were on that product group, or part of the endless number of managers
for Office products, and I were Steve Sinofsky Office VP, Jeff Raikes and
the rest of the Office VPs, I'd want Microsoft to stand behind a $500
Microsoft box. What I have seen has been disingenous with
respect to that concept. In other words, Microsoft ain't supportin' no BCM
or Office boxes for any of us no how. I have the emails and broken
appointments and insistence that I keep clicking the toolbar to prove it. I
also don't speak hexidecimal, and make extensive use of the Event Viewer
when I can.

Microsoft needs to start supporting their products for real. I don't
believe anyone at Convergys knows a great deal about BCM and wish when
theypost instead of the alias [MSFT] those who are Convergys would be up
front and proud of their $2 plus billion dollar grossing company. Most of
us aren't fooled, and most of us know aV-1 or V-2 email is from a Convergys
employee or other contract employee and not a Microsoft employee. It would
not so much matter if the support personnel were part of J-Lo's back stage
roadies, if they knew something about the product they were supposed to
support and honored appointments.

I don't believe on the user rather than enterprise or medium business level
Microsoft, the Redmond company where Jeff Raikes works, supports their own
products at all, and I have substantive evidence to back this up.

Convergys is the *nasty* and completely incompetent underbelly of
Microsoftsupport. I would urge anyone who gets this treatment not to be
satisfiedwith it as an end result and to take it up with the real
*Microsoft,* notConvergys of Ohio. I'm hardly the lone ranger in this
perception; I've seen itfor years on the XP, IE, OE newsgroups on the web as
well as the MS groups.I see posts for help that begin "I couldn't solve this
with long waits forMicrosoft support." Youweren't waiting for Microsoft;
you were waiting for their "support" from Convergys.

Not every secretary or small business user has a help desk or IT team with
a heads up Sys/Ad or CTO attached to them. Not all of these people are
Active Directory, Windows Server 2003, Group Policy, SQL/Exchange
Afficianados with a million hacks for these products at their finger tips
and unfortunately the vast majority of them have never heard of an MSKB and
will never see one. None of them speaks hexadecimal or has the means to
interpret a long scroll down hexadecimal message that is the business end of
their errors and crashes when that's all that is available to them. Most
secretary and small business users have never heard of putting
"eventvwr.msc" into their run boxes, and even if they had, they would still
often be stuck with hexadecimal coded errors and no means to interpret them
and turn them into constructive fixes.

Chad Harris
 
Ad

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R

Richard Goh

I am sure glad you got that off your chest! That was a lot of hate to
carry.

Chad Harris said:
Anyone associated with a NG in any way should be aware that Microsoft is
totally abdicating support for their prodcuts to Convergys of Ohio who flys
this support into the ground. It is hoped that those who work for
Microsoft, particularly developers, as well as those who don't will become
aware of Microsoft's total lack of support for their products.

If anyone from *Microsoft*, particularly the individuals named below, has
the guts to try to justify this egregiously poor excuse for support, please
let me know. It has to change. This is posted here because the SQL MSDE
and failure to support it is directly on point, and should be known and
understood by any developer within or without Microsoft. These are some
"fast facts" about Microsoft's Commitment to Support SQL MSDE 2000 in BCM
the Add-In to Outlook 2003 sold in the most expensive boxes of Office 2003.

Wake up!!!!!!!! Doug Burgum Sr. VP Microsoft Business Solutions, Steve
Sinofsky Sr. VP Office, Jeff Raikes, Group VP Productivity and
BusinessSolutions, Paul Flessner Senior VP Exchange, SQL, EBiz Division,
EricRudder Sr. VP Servers and Tools, Lindsay Sparks,Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, and SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward and particularly those
who adapted MSDE 2000 to Buggy BCM Version 1--aprimitive Beta in a package.
All of you are in a *deep sleep at the switch* when it comes to Microsoft
Support you have ceded to incompetent Convergys.

Couldn't BCM have been integrated into Outlook? A number of hints to get
BCM up and running are not anywhere on the Office Outlook BCM site nor in
KBs. The few that are reside in far flung KBs--a type of *Redmond/Dallas
campus Raiders of the Lost Ark Safari* (no Apple puns intended here).

Either change the boxes to Convergys and their logo and let Convergys take
over your company or support the products your developers and product
managers labor to turn out! You have totally abdicated that support.

A retail box of MOS 2003 Pro or SBE costs about $500--so that the BCM CD is
not a coaster, Microsoft needs to commit to support it--not just PR
spin--and get Convergys out of the way. They are a wall between you and
your customers as are your Phone Route Managers--so-called "MCSDMSCC DSTR
Team LeadProduct Support: 1-800-Microsoft.

Hexadecimal error messags with a couple hundred thousand characters are of
no direct help to end users. There needs to be a way to interpret these
messages in real time so there can the information gleaned can spell repair
efficacy.
____________________________________________________________________________
____

Mini-White Paper:

*How Microsoft *Totally* Fails to Stand Behind Microsoft Office and Support
TheirProducts Because of the Poor Quality of Their Contract Support;
Microsoft Support is an Oxymoron*


Hidden or camouflaged among the Longhorn, TechNet, and MSDN Evangelist
buzz/blogs and great initiatives in a company full of dedicated and
multi-talented people at MSFT is a phenomenon that truly contstitutes the
dirty underbelly of Microsoft--"support" that is not Microsoft at all--but
an abusive sham that is a lucrative contract held by Convergys of Ohio who
boasts on their web site that they have a staff full of attorneys who are
ex-staffers on the hill (in the American Congress), and that they provide
world class support. This is a prime rip off of Microsoft and it's
customers. Whether that means "don't mess with us" or "we get results and
our calls returned inside the Beltway" I don't know or really care. The
major call centers for Convergys of Ohio are in Nova Scotia and on
Newfoundland known by many in Canada as "the rock."

On their site, Convergys boasts they "take care of their customers." I'm
going to outline *how* they take care of their customers with a $500 box of
Office Pro or SBE. It's my understanding that Tony Soprano takes care of
his customers as well. "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" is the corporate ethos when it
comes to Microsoft's customers for Convergys.

This slogan on the page below should more accurately read "Dispose of Your
Customers With Convergys--How To Quintessentially Jerk Them Around and Dump
Them Fast and Show Complete Disdain For Them" Convergys reports revenues of
2.3 Billion, and can decimate the support for a $500 box of MOS 2003. Even
if Convergys employees know nothing about the product, that doesn't stop
them from charging full steam ahead with their unique and potent combo of
arrogance and ignorance.


Take "Better Care of Your Customers" With Convergys
http://www.convergys.com/company_overview.html#better_care

This is one aspect of Microsoft where Steve Sinofsky, Jeff Raikes, Doug
Burgum, Paul Flessner, Eric Rudder, Lindsay Sparks, Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward, and a number of others are
asleep at the switch.

If one goes to the Microsoft Office site and reads every possible web page
associated with Outlook and BCM, they will find none of the many hoops that
may be necessary to get BCM installed and up and running due to its use of
the MSDE 2000. The tack taken is rather to scatter a few (and leave many
out) of the tips throughout 15 KBs and construct a 'Redmond Raiders of the
Lost Ark' search.

Tech Support Microsoft style has been an enormously egregious time wasting
experience. I want to distinguish Microsoft from Convergys here for good
reason. I was having trouble associating BCM with Outlook. I had read all
KBs, and appreciated and took all the suggestions posted in the Outlook and
BCM public newsgroups, here and on the web. I did everything possible to
keep the MSDE 2000 data base engine "happy" with respect to user profile,
services started, and file and print sharing.

After talking with a number of contract support people who were not
Microsoft of course, but actually Convergys although they lied and claimed
they were Microsoft employees, and whose offerings consistently were to go
to the OL toolbar and add BCM and getting the same crashes over 100 times.
No less than 10 appointments were made during the month over a period of 4
hours for each two day tandem. My support case was "escalated" to "BCM
research" No one from Convergys ever kept the appointments, or had the
courtesy or common sense to call and say something got in the way of the
obligation.

This was of course extremely time wasteful because you have to be at the
machine ready to "work with them," and by a clear phone line. It also
meant while Microsoft employees are very conscious of their own schedules,
PDAs, Tablets, Laptops, "SharePoint workspace meetings", meeting requests
and meeting workspaces, and Outlook calendars and schedules, they could
care less about the time and obligations of anyone else. There was never an
apology for these missed appointments by the glorified Microsoft phone
router manager that the phone answering temps from still another company
referred me to. The problem of 10 four hour periods that were scheduled and
blown off was brushed aside. Imagine what might happen to you if you stand
Ballmer, Raikes, Sinofsky, Burghum, Flessner or Rudder up for a scheduled
meeting, let alone ten of them, and you're on their payroll.

When I called to try to find out what happened, after trying to email
several (e-mail address removed) I got emails from two Canadian Convergys
employees in Novascotia assuring me of escalation and prompt
calls but none came, nor were any actually planned.

Finally, after calling back I was told a call would be coming. The
gentleman said he had "1/2 hour," and essentially played what I now know is
the "Convergys BCM toolbar game" to hit the toolbar for a BCM add-in and
watch the crash. He asked me to email the error messages about 3 weeks
ago, said someone would be in touch and no one was. The error messages are
all in
hexadecimal; you can't paste them; and you have nothing with which to decode
them. I screen shot them, and I pasted the ones I could in text. I emailed
these to every SP listed who had owned the case as well as the managers at
Convergys who did not seem to know much about software in general, and
certainly Windows as I later found out when they called error messages
directed at NT Build 2600 the default XP Launch build a beta SP2 build.

I never heard from them. When I called and got a manger of call routers who
claimed he was a Microsoft employee, He was over the top hostile, and
said your only support option is our contractors--take it or leave it or
I'll end the case and prevent you rcalling. It was also clear he knew as
little about Office as he did about Windows which is also the index of
Convergys' level of skill.

I received an email the next day saying my case had been closed because Iwas
using a Beta OS. In fact, reproduced the same errors on Windows XP default
launch build, Windows XP SP1, and every current SP2 build. They had
nothing to do with the build ofWindows period.

The non-technical Canadian manager who killed the case didn't seem to give
me credit for having the trouble-shooting sense to uninstalling a Beta and
BCM and to reinstall them which I had done weeks before the case was
"escalated" or asking for help. This is an old Convergys ploy. They'll
do anything they can to squirm out of support, particularly in a case like
this where they know nothing about BCM.

Convergys also does Comcast support. A couple years ago just before the
XP launch, they were telling people that Windows XP did not workwell with
Comcast's suste,. so that they could blow off support calls when
disconnections from the internet were due to problems on the line beyond the
tap, and upstream line decibel readings were well outside normal limits. I
pointed out that Bill Gates bankrolled Comcast's start and this
was absurd since Windows XP has a number of networking and broadband
configuration enhancements compared to other OS's and Wintendo (Win 9X), and
those are well discussed in the archives of TechNet, MSDN, and the XP web
pages on Microsoft's site that reference networking--some written by MS
MVPs.

A cracked RJ6 cable outside and several hardware problems beyond the cable
tap were the problem. This was Convergys being Convergys and I might add,
not being Microsoft. Convergys will do anything to weasle out of support,
because with them, the emperor has no clothes and they know little about
much of the software they are purported to have SPs (service professionals)
for.

In other words, Microsoft who touts that they make excellent software
products contracts with some of the most incompetent support on the planet.

After I pointed out the only move several Convergys tech support people
including their BCM "research" team had was to click on the toolbar to try
to add in BCM, and had little understanding of the use of the SQL server
MSDN 2000 that had been adapted as a miniversion for BCM, or the KBs the
phone routing supervisor who alleged he was a MS employee in a suburb near
Redmond snarled to take it or leave it and I got an email stating the same
thing.

This made me wonder: If Mr. Sinofsky and Mr. Raikes were getting the same
crash, would they sit at their desks and click on the toolbar for months and
embrace the Microsoft phone manager's mandate to keep on keeping on?

If I were on that product group, or part of the endless number of managers
for Office products, and I were Steve Sinofsky Office VP, Jeff Raikes and
the rest of the Office VPs, I'd want Microsoft to stand behind a $500
Microsoft box. What I have seen has been disingenous with
respect to that concept. In other words, Microsoft ain't supportin' no BCM
or Office boxes for any of us no how. I have the emails and broken
appointments and insistence that I keep clicking the toolbar to prove it. I
also don't speak hexidecimal, and make extensive use of the Event Viewer
when I can.

Microsoft needs to start supporting their products for real. I don't
believe anyone at Convergys knows a great deal about BCM and wish when
theypost instead of the alias [MSFT] those who are Convergys would be up
front and proud of their $2 plus billion dollar grossing company. Most of
us aren't fooled, and most of us know aV-1 or V-2 email is from a Convergys
employee or other contract employee and not a Microsoft employee. It would
not so much matter if the support personnel were part of J-Lo's back stage
roadies, if they knew something about the product they were supposed to
support and honored appointments.

I don't believe on the user rather than enterprise or medium business level
Microsoft, the Redmond company where Jeff Raikes works, supports their own
products at all, and I have substantive evidence to back this up.

Convergys is the *nasty* and completely incompetent underbelly of
Microsoftsupport. I would urge anyone who gets this treatment not to be
satisfiedwith it as an end result and to take it up with the real
*Microsoft,* notConvergys of Ohio. I'm hardly the lone ranger in this
perception; I've seen itfor years on the XP, IE, OE newsgroups on the web as
well as the MS groups.I see posts for help that begin "I couldn't solve this
with long waits forMicrosoft support." Youweren't waiting for Microsoft;
you were waiting for their "support" from Convergys.

Not every secretary or small business user has a help desk or IT team with
a heads up Sys/Ad or CTO attached to them. Not all of these people are
Active Directory, Windows Server 2003, Group Policy, SQL/Exchange
Afficianados with a million hacks for these products at their finger tips
and unfortunately the vast majority of them have never heard of an MSKB and
will never see one. None of them speaks hexadecimal or has the means to
interpret a long scroll down hexadecimal message that is the business end of
their errors and crashes when that's all that is available to them. Most
secretary and small business users have never heard of putting
"eventvwr.msc" into their run boxes, and even if they had, they would still
often be stuck with hexadecimal coded errors and no means to interpret them
and turn them into constructive fixes.

Chad Harris
 
G

Guest

I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
-------------------------------------------------
Chad said:
Anyone associated with a NG in any way should be aware that Microsoft is
totally abdicating support for their prodcuts to Convergys of Ohio who flys
this support into the ground. It is hoped that those who work for
Microsoft, particularly developers, as well as those who don't will become
aware of Microsoft's total lack of support for their products.

If anyone from *Microsoft*, particularly the individuals named below, has
the guts to try to justify this egregiously poor excuse for support, please
let me know. It has to change. This is posted here because the SQL MSDE
and failure to support it is directly on point, and should be known and
understood by any developer within or without Microsoft. These are some
"fast facts" about Microsoft's Commitment to Support SQL MSDE 2000 in BCM
the Add-In to Outlook 2003 sold in the most expensive boxes of Office 2003.

Wake up!!!!!!!! Doug Burgum Sr. VP Microsoft Business Solutions, Steve
Sinofsky Sr. VP Office, Jeff Raikes, Group VP Productivity and
BusinessSolutions, Paul Flessner Senior VP Exchange, SQL, EBiz Division,
EricRudder Sr. VP Servers and Tools, Lindsay Sparks,Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, and SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward and particularly those
who adapted MSDE 2000 to Buggy BCM Version 1--aprimitive Beta in a package.
All of you are in a *deep sleep at the switch* when it comes to Microsoft
Support you have ceded to incompetent Convergys.

Couldn't BCM have been integrated into Outlook? A number of hints to get
BCM up and running are not anywhere on the Office Outlook BCM site nor in
KBs. The few that are reside in far flung KBs--a type of *Redmond/Dallas
campus Raiders of the Lost Ark Safari* (no Apple puns intended here).

Either change the boxes to Convergys and their logo and let Convergys take
over your company or support the products your developers and product
managers labor to turn out! You have totally abdicated that support.

A retail box of MOS 2003 Pro or SBE costs about $500--so that the BCM CD is
not a coaster, Microsoft needs to commit to support it--not just PR
spin--and get Convergys out of the way. They are a wall between you and
your customers as are your Phone Route Managers--so-called "MCSDMSCC DSTR
Team LeadProduct Support: 1-800-Microsoft.

Hexadecimal error messags with a couple hundred thousand characters are of
no direct help to end users. There needs to be a way to interpret these
messages in real time so there can the information gleaned can spell repair
efficacy.
________________________________________________________________________________

Mini-White Paper:

*How Microsoft *Totally* Fails to Stand Behind Microsoft Office and Support
TheirProducts Because of the Poor Quality of Their Contract Support;
Microsoft Support is an Oxymoron*


Hidden or camouflaged among the Longhorn, TechNet, and MSDN Evangelist
buzz/blogs and great initiatives in a company full of dedicated and
multi-talented people at MSFT is a phenomenon that truly contstitutes the
dirty underbelly of Microsoft--"support" that is not Microsoft at all--but
an abusive sham that is a lucrative contract held by Convergys of Ohio who
boasts on their web site that they have a staff full of attorneys who are
ex-staffers on the hill (in the American Congress), and that they provide
world class support. This is a prime rip off of Microsoft and it's
customers. Whether that means "don't mess with us" or "we get results and
our calls returned inside the Beltway" I don't know or really care. The
major call centers for Convergys of Ohio are in Nova Scotia and on
Newfoundland known by many in Canada as "the rock."

On their site, Convergys boasts they "take care of their customers." I'm
going to outline *how* they take care of their customers with a $500 box of
Office Pro or SBE. It's my understanding that Tony Soprano takes care of
his customers as well. "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" is the corporate ethos when it
comes to Microsoft's customers for Convergys.

This slogan on the page below should more accurately read "Dispose of Your
Customers With Convergys--How To Quintessentially Jerk Them Around and Dump
Them Fast and Show Complete Disdain For Them" Convergys reports revenues of
2.3 Billion, and can decimate the support for a $500 box of MOS 2003. Even
if Convergys employees know nothing about the product, that doesn't stop
them from charging full steam ahead with their unique and potent combo of
arrogance and ignorance.


Take "Better Care of Your Customers" With Convergys
http://www.convergys.com/company_overview.html#better_care

This is one aspect of Microsoft where Steve Sinofsky, Jeff Raikes, Doug
Burgum, Paul Flessner, Eric Rudder, Lindsay Sparks, Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward, and a number of others are
asleep at the switch.

If one goes to the Microsoft Office site and reads every possible web page
associated with Outlook and BCM, they will find none of the many hoops that
may be necessary to get BCM installed and up and running due to its use of
the MSDE 2000. The tack taken is rather to scatter a few (and leave many
out) of the tips throughout 15 KBs and construct a 'Redmond Raiders of the
Lost Ark' search.

Tech Support Microsoft style has been an enormously egregious time wasting
experience. I want to distinguish Microsoft from Convergys here for good
reason. I was having trouble associating BCM with Outlook. I had read all
KBs, and appreciated and took all the suggestions posted in the Outlook and
BCM public newsgroups, here and on the web. I did everything possible to
keep the MSDE 2000 data base engine "happy" with respect to user profile,
services started, and file and print sharing.

After talking with a number of contract support people who were not
Microsoft of course, but actually Convergys although they lied and claimed
they were Microsoft employees, and whose offerings consistently were to go
to the OL toolbar and add BCM and getting the same crashes over 100 times.
No less than 10 appointments were made during the month over a period of 4
hours for each two day tandem. My support case was "escalated" to "BCM
research" No one from Convergys ever kept the appointments, or had the
courtesy or common sense to call and say something got in the way of the
obligation.

This was of course extremely time wasteful because you have to be at the
machine ready to "work with them," and by a clear phone line. It also
meant while Microsoft employees are very conscious of their own schedules,
PDAs, Tablets, Laptops, "SharePoint workspace meetings", meeting requests
and meeting workspaces, and Outlook calendars and schedules, they could
care less about the time and obligations of anyone else. There was never an
apology for these missed appointments by the glorified Microsoft phone
router manager that the phone answering temps from still another company
referred me to. The problem of 10 four hour periods that were scheduled and
blown off was brushed aside. Imagine what might happen to you if you stand
Ballmer, Raikes, Sinofsky, Burghum, Flessner or Rudder up for a scheduled
meeting, let alone ten of them, and you're on their payroll.

When I called to try to find out what happened, after trying to email
several (e-mail address removed) I got emails from two Canadian Convergys
employees in Novascotia assuring me of escalation and prompt
calls but none came, nor were any actually planned.

Finally, after calling back I was told a call would be coming. The
gentleman said he had "1/2 hour," and essentially played what I now know is
the "Convergys BCM toolbar game" to hit the toolbar for a BCM add-in and
watch the crash. He asked me to email the error messages about 3 weeks
ago, said someone would be in touch and no one was. The error messages are
all in
hexadecimal; you can't paste them; and you have nothing with which to decode
them. I screen shot them, and I pasted the ones I could in text. I emailed
these to every SP listed who had owned the case as well as the managers at
Convergys who did not seem to know much about software in general, and
certainly Windows as I later found out when they called error messages
directed at NT Build 2600 the default XP Launch build a beta SP2 build.

I never heard from them. When I called and got a manger of call routers who
claimed he was a Microsoft employee, He was over the top hostile, and
said your only support option is our contractors--take it or leave it or
I'll end the case and prevent you rcalling. It was also clear he knew as
little about Office as he did about Windows which is also the index of
Convergys' level of skill.

I received an email the next day saying my case had been closed because Iwas
using a Beta OS. In fact, reproduced the same errors on Windows XP default
launch build, Windows XP SP1, and every current SP2 build. They had
nothing to do with the build ofWindows period.

The non-technical Canadian manager who killed the case didn't seem to give
me credit for having the trouble-shooting sense to uninstalling a Beta and
BCM and to reinstall them which I had done weeks before the case was
"escalated" or asking for help. This is an old Convergys ploy. They'll
do anything they can to squirm out of support, particularly in a case like
this where they know nothing about BCM.

Convergys also does Comcast support. A couple years ago just before the
XP launch, they were telling people that Windows XP did not workwell with
Comcast's suste,. so that they could blow off support calls when
disconnections from the internet were due to problems on the line beyond the
tap, and upstream line decibel readings were well outside normal limits. I
pointed out that Bill Gates bankrolled Comcast's start and this
was absurd since Windows XP has a number of networking and broadband
configuration enhancements compared to other OS's and Wintendo (Win 9X), and
those are well discussed in the archives of TechNet, MSDN, and the XP web
pages on Microsoft's site that reference networking--some written by MS
MVPs.

A cracked RJ6 cable outside and several hardware problems beyond the cable
tap were the problem. This was Convergys being Convergys and I might add,
not being Microsoft. Convergys will do anything to weasle out of support,
because with them, the emperor has no clothes and they know little about
much of the software they are purported to have SPs (service professionals)
for.

In other words, Microsoft who touts that they make excellent software
products contracts with some of the most incompetent support on the planet.

After I pointed out the only move several Convergys tech support people
including their BCM "research" team had was to click on the toolbar to try
to add in BCM, and had little understanding of the use of the SQL server
MSDN 2000 that had been adapted as a miniversion for BCM, or the KBs the
phone routing supervisor who alleged he was a MS employee in a suburb near
Redmond snarled to take it or leave it and I got an email stating the same
thing.

This made me wonder: If Mr. Sinofsky and Mr. Raikes were getting the same
crash, would they sit at their desks and click on the toolbar for months and
embrace the Microsoft phone manager's mandate to keep on keeping on?

If I were on that product group, or part of the endless number of managers
for Office products, and I were Steve Sinofsky Office VP, Jeff Raikes and
the rest of the Office VPs, I'd want Microsoft to stand behind a $500
Microsoft box. What I have seen has been disingenous with
respect to that concept. In other words, Microsoft ain't supportin' no BCM
or Office boxes for any of us no how. I have the emails and broken
appointments and insistence that I keep clicking the toolbar to prove it. I
also don't speak hexidecimal, and make extensive use of the Event Viewer
when I can.

Microsoft needs to start supporting their products for real. I don't
believe anyone at Convergys knows a great deal about BCM and wish when
theypost instead of the alias [MSFT] those who are Convergys would be up
front and proud of their $2 plus billion dollar grossing company. Most of
us aren't fooled, and most of us know aV-1 or V-2 email is from a Convergys
employee or other contract employee and not a Microsoft employee. It would
not so much matter if the support personnel were part of J-Lo's back stage
roadies, if they knew something about the product they were supposed to
support and honored appointments.

I don't believe on the user rather than enterprise or medium business level
Microsoft, the Redmond company where Jeff Raikes works, supports their own
products at all, and I have substantive evidence to back this up.

Convergys is the *nasty* and completely incompetent underbelly of
Microsoftsupport. I would urge anyone who gets this treatment not to be
satisfiedwith it as an end result and to take it up with the real
*Microsoft,* notConvergys of Ohio. I'm hardly the lone ranger in this
perception; I've seen itfor years on the XP, IE, OE newsgroups on the web as
well as the MS groups.I see posts for help that begin "I couldn't solve this
with long waits forMicrosoft support." Youweren't waiting for Microsoft;
you were waiting for their "support" from Convergys.

Not every secretary or small business user has a help desk or IT team with
a heads up Sys/Ad or CTO attached to them. Not all of these people are
Active Directory, Windows Server 2003, Group Policy, SQL/Exchange
Afficianados with a million hacks for these products at their finger tips
and unfortunately the vast majority of them have never heard of an MSKB and
will never see one. None of them speaks hexadecimal or has the means to
interpret a long scroll down hexadecimal message that is the business end of
their errors and crashes when that's all that is available to them. Most
secretary and small business users have never heard of putting
"eventvwr.msc" into their run boxes, and even if they had, they would still
often be stuck with hexadecimal coded errors and no means to interpret them
and turn them into constructive fixes.

Chad Harris
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Greetings --

Do you have any specific problem(s) that you need help with, or
are you just venting?


Bruce Chambers
--
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. -- RAH


Chad Harris said:
Anyone associated with a NG in any way should be aware that Microsoft is
totally abdicating support for their prodcuts to Convergys of Ohio who flys
this support into the ground. It is hoped that those who work for
Microsoft, particularly developers, as well as those who don't will become
aware of Microsoft's total lack of support for their products.

If anyone from *Microsoft*, particularly the individuals named below, has
the guts to try to justify this egregiously poor excuse for support, please
let me know. It has to change. This is posted here because the SQL MSDE
and failure to support it is directly on point, and should be known and
understood by any developer within or without Microsoft. These are some
"fast facts" about Microsoft's Commitment to Support SQL MSDE 2000 in BCM
the Add-In to Outlook 2003 sold in the most expensive boxes of Office 2003.

Wake up!!!!!!!! Doug Burgum Sr. VP Microsoft Business Solutions, Steve
Sinofsky Sr. VP Office, Jeff Raikes, Group VP Productivity and
BusinessSolutions, Paul Flessner Senior VP Exchange, SQL, EBiz Division,
EricRudder Sr. VP Servers and Tools, Lindsay Sparks,Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, and SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward and particularly those
who adapted MSDE 2000 to Buggy BCM Version 1--aprimitive Beta in a package.
All of you are in a *deep sleep at the switch* when it comes to Microsoft
Support you have ceded to incompetent Convergys.

Couldn't BCM have been integrated into Outlook? A number of hints to get
BCM up and running are not anywhere on the Office Outlook BCM site nor in
KBs. The few that are reside in far flung KBs--a type of *Redmond/Dallas
campus Raiders of the Lost Ark Safari* (no Apple puns intended here).

Either change the boxes to Convergys and their logo and let Convergys take
over your company or support the products your developers and product
managers labor to turn out! You have totally abdicated that support.

A retail box of MOS 2003 Pro or SBE costs about $500--so that the BCM CD is
not a coaster, Microsoft needs to commit to support it--not just PR
spin--and get Convergys out of the way. They are a wall between you and
your customers as are your Phone Route Managers--so-called "MCSDMSCC DSTR
Team LeadProduct Support: 1-800-Microsoft.

Hexadecimal error messags with a couple hundred thousand characters are of
no direct help to end users. There needs to be a way to interpret these
messages in real time so there can the information gleaned can spell repair
efficacy.
______________________________________________________________________
__________

Mini-White Paper:

*How Microsoft *Totally* Fails to Stand Behind Microsoft Office and Support
TheirProducts Because of the Poor Quality of Their Contract Support;
Microsoft Support is an Oxymoron*


Hidden or camouflaged among the Longhorn, TechNet, and MSDN Evangelist
buzz/blogs and great initiatives in a company full of dedicated and
multi-talented people at MSFT is a phenomenon that truly contstitutes the
dirty underbelly of Microsoft--"support" that is not Microsoft at all--but
an abusive sham that is a lucrative contract held by Convergys of Ohio who
boasts on their web site that they have a staff full of attorneys who are
ex-staffers on the hill (in the American Congress), and that they provide
world class support. This is a prime rip off of Microsoft and it's
customers. Whether that means "don't mess with us" or "we get results and
our calls returned inside the Beltway" I don't know or really care. The
major call centers for Convergys of Ohio are in Nova Scotia and on
Newfoundland known by many in Canada as "the rock."

On their site, Convergys boasts they "take care of their customers." I'm
going to outline *how* they take care of their customers with a $500 box of
Office Pro or SBE. It's my understanding that Tony Soprano takes care of
his customers as well. "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" is the corporate ethos when it
comes to Microsoft's customers for Convergys.

This slogan on the page below should more accurately read "Dispose of Your
Customers With Convergys--How To Quintessentially Jerk Them Around and Dump
Them Fast and Show Complete Disdain For Them" Convergys reports revenues of
2.3 Billion, and can decimate the support for a $500 box of MOS 2003. Even
if Convergys employees know nothing about the product, that doesn't stop
them from charging full steam ahead with their unique and potent combo of
arrogance and ignorance.


Take "Better Care of Your Customers" With Convergys
http://www.convergys.com/company_overview.html#better_care

This is one aspect of Microsoft where Steve Sinofsky, Jeff Raikes, Doug
Burgum, Paul Flessner, Eric Rudder, Lindsay Sparks, Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward, and a number of others are
asleep at the switch.

If one goes to the Microsoft Office site and reads every possible web page
associated with Outlook and BCM, they will find none of the many hoops that
may be necessary to get BCM installed and up and running due to its use of
the MSDE 2000. The tack taken is rather to scatter a few (and leave many
out) of the tips throughout 15 KBs and construct a 'Redmond Raiders of the
Lost Ark' search.

Tech Support Microsoft style has been an enormously egregious time wasting
experience. I want to distinguish Microsoft from Convergys here for good
reason. I was having trouble associating BCM with Outlook. I had read all
KBs, and appreciated and took all the suggestions posted in the Outlook and
BCM public newsgroups, here and on the web. I did everything possible to
keep the MSDE 2000 data base engine "happy" with respect to user profile,
services started, and file and print sharing.

After talking with a number of contract support people who were not
Microsoft of course, but actually Convergys although they lied and claimed
they were Microsoft employees, and whose offerings consistently were to go
to the OL toolbar and add BCM and getting the same crashes over 100 times.
No less than 10 appointments were made during the month over a period of 4
hours for each two day tandem. My support case was "escalated" to "BCM
research" No one from Convergys ever kept the appointments, or had the
courtesy or common sense to call and say something got in the way of the
obligation.

This was of course extremely time wasteful because you have to be at the
machine ready to "work with them," and by a clear phone line. It also
meant while Microsoft employees are very conscious of their own schedules,
PDAs, Tablets, Laptops, "SharePoint workspace meetings", meeting requests
and meeting workspaces, and Outlook calendars and schedules, they could
care less about the time and obligations of anyone else. There was never an
apology for these missed appointments by the glorified Microsoft phone
router manager that the phone answering temps from still another company
referred me to. The problem of 10 four hour periods that were scheduled and
blown off was brushed aside. Imagine what might happen to you if you stand
Ballmer, Raikes, Sinofsky, Burghum, Flessner or Rudder up for a scheduled
meeting, let alone ten of them, and you're on their payroll.

When I called to try to find out what happened, after trying to email
several (e-mail address removed) I got emails from two Canadian Convergys
employees in Novascotia assuring me of escalation and prompt
calls but none came, nor were any actually planned.

Finally, after calling back I was told a call would be coming. The
gentleman said he had "1/2 hour," and essentially played what I now know is
the "Convergys BCM toolbar game" to hit the toolbar for a BCM add-in and
watch the crash. He asked me to email the error messages about 3 weeks
ago, said someone would be in touch and no one was. The error messages are
all in
hexadecimal; you can't paste them; and you have nothing with which to decode
them. I screen shot them, and I pasted the ones I could in text. I emailed
these to every SP listed who had owned the case as well as the managers at
Convergys who did not seem to know much about software in general, and
certainly Windows as I later found out when they called error messages
directed at NT Build 2600 the default XP Launch build a beta SP2 build.

I never heard from them. When I called and got a manger of call routers who
claimed he was a Microsoft employee, He was over the top hostile, and
said your only support option is our contractors--take it or leave it or
I'll end the case and prevent you rcalling. It was also clear he knew as
little about Office as he did about Windows which is also the index of
Convergys' level of skill.

I received an email the next day saying my case had been closed because Iwas
using a Beta OS. In fact, reproduced the same errors on Windows XP default
launch build, Windows XP SP1, and every current SP2 build. They had
nothing to do with the build ofWindows period.

The non-technical Canadian manager who killed the case didn't seem to give
me credit for having the trouble-shooting sense to uninstalling a Beta and
BCM and to reinstall them which I had done weeks before the case was
"escalated" or asking for help. This is an old Convergys ploy. They'll
do anything they can to squirm out of support, particularly in a case like
this where they know nothing about BCM.

Convergys also does Comcast support. A couple years ago just before the
XP launch, they were telling people that Windows XP did not workwell with
Comcast's suste,. so that they could blow off support calls when
disconnections from the internet were due to problems on the line beyond the
tap, and upstream line decibel readings were well outside normal limits. I
pointed out that Bill Gates bankrolled Comcast's start and this
was absurd since Windows XP has a number of networking and broadband
configuration enhancements compared to other OS's and Wintendo (Win 9X), and
those are well discussed in the archives of TechNet, MSDN, and the XP web
pages on Microsoft's site that reference networking--some written by MS
MVPs.

A cracked RJ6 cable outside and several hardware problems beyond the cable
tap were the problem. This was Convergys being Convergys and I might add,
not being Microsoft. Convergys will do anything to weasle out of support,
because with them, the emperor has no clothes and they know little about
much of the software they are purported to have SPs (service professionals)
for.

In other words, Microsoft who touts that they make excellent software
products contracts with some of the most incompetent support on the planet.

After I pointed out the only move several Convergys tech support people
including their BCM "research" team had was to click on the toolbar to try
to add in BCM, and had little understanding of the use of the SQL server
MSDN 2000 that had been adapted as a miniversion for BCM, or the KBs the
phone routing supervisor who alleged he was a MS employee in a suburb near
Redmond snarled to take it or leave it and I got an email stating the same
thing.

This made me wonder: If Mr. Sinofsky and Mr. Raikes were getting the same
crash, would they sit at their desks and click on the toolbar for months and
embrace the Microsoft phone manager's mandate to keep on keeping on?

If I were on that product group, or part of the endless number of managers
for Office products, and I were Steve Sinofsky Office VP, Jeff Raikes and
the rest of the Office VPs, I'd want Microsoft to stand behind a $500
Microsoft box. What I have seen has been disingenous with
respect to that concept. In other words, Microsoft ain't supportin' no BCM
or Office boxes for any of us no how. I have the emails and broken
appointments and insistence that I keep clicking the toolbar to prove it. I
also don't speak hexidecimal, and make extensive use of the Event Viewer
when I can.

Microsoft needs to start supporting their products for real. I don't
believe anyone at Convergys knows a great deal about BCM and wish when
theypost instead of the alias [MSFT] those who are Convergys would be up
front and proud of their $2 plus billion dollar grossing company. Most of
us aren't fooled, and most of us know aV-1 or V-2 email is from a Convergys
employee or other contract employee and not a Microsoft employee. It would
not so much matter if the support personnel were part of J-Lo's back stage
roadies, if they knew something about the product they were supposed to
support and honored appointments.

I don't believe on the user rather than enterprise or medium business level
Microsoft, the Redmond company where Jeff Raikes works, supports their own
products at all, and I have substantive evidence to back this up.

Convergys is the *nasty* and completely incompetent underbelly of
Microsoftsupport. I would urge anyone who gets this treatment not to be
satisfiedwith it as an end result and to take it up with the real
*Microsoft,* notConvergys of Ohio. I'm hardly the lone ranger in this
perception; I've seen itfor years on the XP, IE, OE newsgroups on the web as
well as the MS groups.I see posts for help that begin "I couldn't solve this
with long waits forMicrosoft support." Youweren't waiting for Microsoft;
you were waiting for their "support" from Convergys.

Not every secretary or small business user has a help desk or IT team with
a heads up Sys/Ad or CTO attached to them. Not all of these people are
Active Directory, Windows Server 2003, Group Policy, SQL/Exchange
Afficianados with a million hacks for these products at their finger tips
and unfortunately the vast majority of them have never heard of an MSKB and
will never see one. None of them speaks hexadecimal or has the means to
interpret a long scroll down hexadecimal message that is the business end of
their errors and crashes when that's all that is available to them. Most
secretary and small business users have never heard of putting
"eventvwr.msc" into their run boxes, and even if they had, they would still
often be stuck with hexadecimal coded errors and no means to interpret them
and turn them into constructive fixes.

Chad Harris
 
J

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

Chad;
If you have a complaint against Microsoft, I would hope you also sent
it through a channel that will actually get to Microsoft.
Since these are peer to peer newsgroups, there is no assurance at all
that Microsoft will see your complaint.
Also the crossposting is unnecessary and rude on your part.
If you must, multipost instead.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Chad Harris said:
Anyone associated with a NG in any way should be aware that Microsoft is
totally abdicating support for their prodcuts to Convergys of Ohio who flys
this support into the ground. It is hoped that those who work for
Microsoft, particularly developers, as well as those who don't will become
aware of Microsoft's total lack of support for their products.

If anyone from *Microsoft*, particularly the individuals named below, has
the guts to try to justify this egregiously poor excuse for support, please
let me know. It has to change. This is posted here because the SQL MSDE
and failure to support it is directly on point, and should be known and
understood by any developer within or without Microsoft. These are some
"fast facts" about Microsoft's Commitment to Support SQL MSDE 2000 in BCM
the Add-In to Outlook 2003 sold in the most expensive boxes of Office 2003.

Wake up!!!!!!!! Doug Burgum Sr. VP Microsoft Business Solutions, Steve
Sinofsky Sr. VP Office, Jeff Raikes, Group VP Productivity and
BusinessSolutions, Paul Flessner Senior VP Exchange, SQL, EBiz Division,
EricRudder Sr. VP Servers and Tools, Lindsay Sparks,Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, and SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward and particularly those
who adapted MSDE 2000 to Buggy BCM Version 1--aprimitive Beta in a package.
All of you are in a *deep sleep at the switch* when it comes to Microsoft
Support you have ceded to incompetent Convergys.

Couldn't BCM have been integrated into Outlook? A number of hints to get
BCM up and running are not anywhere on the Office Outlook BCM site nor in
KBs. The few that are reside in far flung KBs--a type of *Redmond/Dallas
campus Raiders of the Lost Ark Safari* (no Apple puns intended here).

Either change the boxes to Convergys and their logo and let Convergys take
over your company or support the products your developers and product
managers labor to turn out! You have totally abdicated that support.

A retail box of MOS 2003 Pro or SBE costs about $500--so that the BCM CD is
not a coaster, Microsoft needs to commit to support it--not just PR
spin--and get Convergys out of the way. They are a wall between you and
your customers as are your Phone Route Managers--so-called "MCSDMSCC DSTR
Team LeadProduct Support: 1-800-Microsoft.

Hexadecimal error messags with a couple hundred thousand characters are of
no direct help to end users. There needs to be a way to interpret these
messages in real time so there can the information gleaned can spell repair
efficacy.
______________________________________________________________________
__________

Mini-White Paper:

*How Microsoft *Totally* Fails to Stand Behind Microsoft Office and Support
TheirProducts Because of the Poor Quality of Their Contract Support;
Microsoft Support is an Oxymoron*


Hidden or camouflaged among the Longhorn, TechNet, and MSDN Evangelist
buzz/blogs and great initiatives in a company full of dedicated and
multi-talented people at MSFT is a phenomenon that truly contstitutes the
dirty underbelly of Microsoft--"support" that is not Microsoft at all--but
an abusive sham that is a lucrative contract held by Convergys of Ohio who
boasts on their web site that they have a staff full of attorneys who are
ex-staffers on the hill (in the American Congress), and that they provide
world class support. This is a prime rip off of Microsoft and it's
customers. Whether that means "don't mess with us" or "we get results and
our calls returned inside the Beltway" I don't know or really care. The
major call centers for Convergys of Ohio are in Nova Scotia and on
Newfoundland known by many in Canada as "the rock."

On their site, Convergys boasts they "take care of their customers." I'm
going to outline *how* they take care of their customers with a $500 box of
Office Pro or SBE. It's my understanding that Tony Soprano takes care of
his customers as well. "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" is the corporate ethos when it
comes to Microsoft's customers for Convergys.

This slogan on the page below should more accurately read "Dispose of Your
Customers With Convergys--How To Quintessentially Jerk Them Around and Dump
Them Fast and Show Complete Disdain For Them" Convergys reports revenues of
2.3 Billion, and can decimate the support for a $500 box of MOS 2003. Even
if Convergys employees know nothing about the product, that doesn't stop
them from charging full steam ahead with their unique and potent combo of
arrogance and ignorance.


Take "Better Care of Your Customers" With Convergys
http://www.convergys.com/company_overview.html#better_care

This is one aspect of Microsoft where Steve Sinofsky, Jeff Raikes, Doug
Burgum, Paul Flessner, Eric Rudder, Lindsay Sparks, Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward, and a number of others are
asleep at the switch.

If one goes to the Microsoft Office site and reads every possible web page
associated with Outlook and BCM, they will find none of the many hoops that
may be necessary to get BCM installed and up and running due to its use of
the MSDE 2000. The tack taken is rather to scatter a few (and leave many
out) of the tips throughout 15 KBs and construct a 'Redmond Raiders of the
Lost Ark' search.

Tech Support Microsoft style has been an enormously egregious time wasting
experience. I want to distinguish Microsoft from Convergys here for good
reason. I was having trouble associating BCM with Outlook. I had read all
KBs, and appreciated and took all the suggestions posted in the Outlook and
BCM public newsgroups, here and on the web. I did everything possible to
keep the MSDE 2000 data base engine "happy" with respect to user profile,
services started, and file and print sharing.

After talking with a number of contract support people who were not
Microsoft of course, but actually Convergys although they lied and claimed
they were Microsoft employees, and whose offerings consistently were to go
to the OL toolbar and add BCM and getting the same crashes over 100 times.
No less than 10 appointments were made during the month over a period of 4
hours for each two day tandem. My support case was "escalated" to "BCM
research" No one from Convergys ever kept the appointments, or had the
courtesy or common sense to call and say something got in the way of the
obligation.

This was of course extremely time wasteful because you have to be at the
machine ready to "work with them," and by a clear phone line. It also
meant while Microsoft employees are very conscious of their own schedules,
PDAs, Tablets, Laptops, "SharePoint workspace meetings", meeting requests
and meeting workspaces, and Outlook calendars and schedules, they could
care less about the time and obligations of anyone else. There was never an
apology for these missed appointments by the glorified Microsoft phone
router manager that the phone answering temps from still another company
referred me to. The problem of 10 four hour periods that were scheduled and
blown off was brushed aside. Imagine what might happen to you if you stand
Ballmer, Raikes, Sinofsky, Burghum, Flessner or Rudder up for a scheduled
meeting, let alone ten of them, and you're on their payroll.

When I called to try to find out what happened, after trying to email
several (e-mail address removed) I got emails from two Canadian Convergys
employees in Novascotia assuring me of escalation and prompt
calls but none came, nor were any actually planned.

Finally, after calling back I was told a call would be coming. The
gentleman said he had "1/2 hour," and essentially played what I now know is
the "Convergys BCM toolbar game" to hit the toolbar for a BCM add-in and
watch the crash. He asked me to email the error messages about 3 weeks
ago, said someone would be in touch and no one was. The error messages are
all in
hexadecimal; you can't paste them; and you have nothing with which to decode
them. I screen shot them, and I pasted the ones I could in text. I emailed
these to every SP listed who had owned the case as well as the managers at
Convergys who did not seem to know much about software in general, and
certainly Windows as I later found out when they called error messages
directed at NT Build 2600 the default XP Launch build a beta SP2 build.

I never heard from them. When I called and got a manger of call routers who
claimed he was a Microsoft employee, He was over the top hostile, and
said your only support option is our contractors--take it or leave it or
I'll end the case and prevent you rcalling. It was also clear he knew as
little about Office as he did about Windows which is also the index of
Convergys' level of skill.

I received an email the next day saying my case had been closed because Iwas
using a Beta OS. In fact, reproduced the same errors on Windows XP default
launch build, Windows XP SP1, and every current SP2 build. They had
nothing to do with the build ofWindows period.

The non-technical Canadian manager who killed the case didn't seem to give
me credit for having the trouble-shooting sense to uninstalling a Beta and
BCM and to reinstall them which I had done weeks before the case was
"escalated" or asking for help. This is an old Convergys ploy. They'll
do anything they can to squirm out of support, particularly in a case like
this where they know nothing about BCM.

Convergys also does Comcast support. A couple years ago just before the
XP launch, they were telling people that Windows XP did not workwell with
Comcast's suste,. so that they could blow off support calls when
disconnections from the internet were due to problems on the line beyond the
tap, and upstream line decibel readings were well outside normal limits. I
pointed out that Bill Gates bankrolled Comcast's start and this
was absurd since Windows XP has a number of networking and broadband
configuration enhancements compared to other OS's and Wintendo (Win 9X), and
those are well discussed in the archives of TechNet, MSDN, and the XP web
pages on Microsoft's site that reference networking--some written by MS
MVPs.

A cracked RJ6 cable outside and several hardware problems beyond the cable
tap were the problem. This was Convergys being Convergys and I might add,
not being Microsoft. Convergys will do anything to weasle out of support,
because with them, the emperor has no clothes and they know little about
much of the software they are purported to have SPs (service professionals)
for.

In other words, Microsoft who touts that they make excellent software
products contracts with some of the most incompetent support on the planet.

After I pointed out the only move several Convergys tech support people
including their BCM "research" team had was to click on the toolbar to try
to add in BCM, and had little understanding of the use of the SQL server
MSDN 2000 that had been adapted as a miniversion for BCM, or the KBs the
phone routing supervisor who alleged he was a MS employee in a suburb near
Redmond snarled to take it or leave it and I got an email stating the same
thing.

This made me wonder: If Mr. Sinofsky and Mr. Raikes were getting the same
crash, would they sit at their desks and click on the toolbar for months and
embrace the Microsoft phone manager's mandate to keep on keeping on?

If I were on that product group, or part of the endless number of managers
for Office products, and I were Steve Sinofsky Office VP, Jeff Raikes and
the rest of the Office VPs, I'd want Microsoft to stand behind a $500
Microsoft box. What I have seen has been disingenous with
respect to that concept. In other words, Microsoft ain't supportin' no BCM
or Office boxes for any of us no how. I have the emails and broken
appointments and insistence that I keep clicking the toolbar to prove it. I
also don't speak hexidecimal, and make extensive use of the Event Viewer
when I can.

Microsoft needs to start supporting their products for real. I don't
believe anyone at Convergys knows a great deal about BCM and wish when
theypost instead of the alias [MSFT] those who are Convergys would be up
front and proud of their $2 plus billion dollar grossing company. Most of
us aren't fooled, and most of us know aV-1 or V-2 email is from a Convergys
employee or other contract employee and not a Microsoft employee. It would
not so much matter if the support personnel were part of J-Lo's back stage
roadies, if they knew something about the product they were supposed to
support and honored appointments.

I don't believe on the user rather than enterprise or medium business level
Microsoft, the Redmond company where Jeff Raikes works, supports their own
products at all, and I have substantive evidence to back this up.

Convergys is the *nasty* and completely incompetent underbelly of
Microsoftsupport. I would urge anyone who gets this treatment not to be
satisfiedwith it as an end result and to take it up with the real
*Microsoft,* notConvergys of Ohio. I'm hardly the lone ranger in this
perception; I've seen itfor years on the XP, IE, OE newsgroups on the web as
well as the MS groups.I see posts for help that begin "I couldn't solve this
with long waits forMicrosoft support." Youweren't waiting for Microsoft;
you were waiting for their "support" from Convergys.

Not every secretary or small business user has a help desk or IT team with
a heads up Sys/Ad or CTO attached to them. Not all of these people are
Active Directory, Windows Server 2003, Group Policy, SQL/Exchange
Afficianados with a million hacks for these products at their finger tips
and unfortunately the vast majority of them have never heard of an MSKB and
will never see one. None of them speaks hexadecimal or has the means to
interpret a long scroll down hexadecimal message that is the business end of
their errors and crashes when that's all that is available to them. Most
secretary and small business users have never heard of putting
"eventvwr.msc" into their run boxes, and even if they had, they would still
often be stuck with hexadecimal coded errors and no means to interpret them
and turn them into constructive fixes.

Chad Harris
 
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S

Sharon F

Also the crossposting is unnecessary and rude on your part.
If you must, multipost instead.

Crossposting is preferred (but rude if excessive) as many newsreaders will
pick up on the crossposting and then only download the message once. If
multiposted, it is downloaded in each and every group.
 
J

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

OK, I got it backwards.
In any event I saw this separately on several newsgroups.
 
S

Sharon F

OK, I got it backwards.
In any event I saw this separately on several newsgroups.

It's the first thing that I've ever seen you get backwards. You have a long
way to go to catch up with me in that category. ;)
 
C

Chad Harris

Jupiter--

Sorry for any inconvenience to a dedictated MVP who provides a tremendous
amount of unselfish help or anyone else. I rarely cross post. I've done
it twice when I didn't get any answer to reasonable questions and it
produced answers--they just took a while and I understood people are busy
and was glad to get the help. This wasn't really a cross post. There were 4
or so and they were tailored to the group for the most part. One to BCM, one
to MSDE, one to Office and here.

There is an important point. For most people there *are no meaningful
channels to MSFT.* You'd have to think out of the box to contact them with
this problem, and I have. But I can't change this contract with these
jokers that makes support a terrible experience that was decided at the Sr.
VP level. Surely you don't mean MSFT Wish or the feedback box on the Office
website which has no of the basic tenants on the BCM site for using the MSDE
which BCM is.

1) The post wasn't a diatribe against MSFT--it was to alert people who
aren't in the context of IT Help Desks in Enterprises with large MSFT volume
licenses who don't have any channel to MSFT or have paid for high level
support with some kind of certified partner. In other words, what's
available because someone got a box is worthless much of the time. If the
software has systemic problems, and Convergys can't handle it you're out of
luck and that's by design.

2) If BCM is a very buggy flop and it is right now--some of the best OL MVPs
and most proflific OL authors can't make it work, MSFT is only going to hear
possibly from those MVPs who have multiple collateral channels and will be
listened to, or notice if a large customer makes the complaint about a
volume of workstations.

3) The small business has little or no connection with MSFT, and that's by
very deliberate design. MSFT hires out their support predominantly with
Convergys--and is expanding their support centers in Bangalore, New Delhi
and building a new center in another Indian city.

I wanted to make the point they have no control over their support and they
don't want to know what happens. They just want it away from them and they
have that.

I wanted to make the point that they contract it to Convergys the way a
large company contracts their trash pickup.

4) I understand that if 3 of the best and brightest Outlook MVPs who are
prolific authors and wear multiple hats say it's buggy and has systemic
problems, adding to Outlook, then trying to get help from Joe Six Pack
Convergys SP is going to produce zilch compared with what might be available
in these groups. Unfortunately that's all that is extended.

5) I'm willing to bet that if you were told to click a toolbar to produce
the same crash you had produced more than 200 times in all builds of XP you
would have considered it a waste of time as well as ten four hour window
appointments that weren't kept. Again there is no *normal* channel to
compalin to MSFT.

6) I have no idea what the public is supposed to do with error messages that
are all in hex including those in the Event Viewer. Convergys sure isn't
equipped to deal with them.

Thanks,

Chad Harris




______________________________________________________________
Jupiter Jones said:
Chad;
If you have a complaint against Microsoft, I would hope you also sent
it through a channel that will actually get to Microsoft.
Since these are peer to peer newsgroups, there is no assurance at all
that Microsoft will see your complaint.
Also the crossposting is unnecessary and rude on your part.
If you must, multipost instead.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


Chad Harris said:
Anyone associated with a NG in any way should be aware that Microsoft is
totally abdicating support for their prodcuts to Convergys of Ohio who flys
this support into the ground. It is hoped that those who work for
Microsoft, particularly developers, as well as those who don't will become
aware of Microsoft's total lack of support for their products.

If anyone from *Microsoft*, particularly the individuals named below, has
the guts to try to justify this egregiously poor excuse for support, please
let me know. It has to change. This is posted here because the SQL MSDE
and failure to support it is directly on point, and should be known and
understood by any developer within or without Microsoft. These are some
"fast facts" about Microsoft's Commitment to Support SQL MSDE 2000 in BCM
the Add-In to Outlook 2003 sold in the most expensive boxes of Office 2003.

Wake up!!!!!!!! Doug Burgum Sr. VP Microsoft Business Solutions, Steve
Sinofsky Sr. VP Office, Jeff Raikes, Group VP Productivity and
BusinessSolutions, Paul Flessner Senior VP Exchange, SQL, EBiz Division,
EricRudder Sr. VP Servers and Tools, Lindsay Sparks,Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, and SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward and particularly those
who adapted MSDE 2000 to Buggy BCM Version 1--aprimitive Beta in a package.
All of you are in a *deep sleep at the switch* when it comes to Microsoft
Support you have ceded to incompetent Convergys.

Couldn't BCM have been integrated into Outlook? A number of hints to get
BCM up and running are not anywhere on the Office Outlook BCM site nor in
KBs. The few that are reside in far flung KBs--a type of *Redmond/Dallas
campus Raiders of the Lost Ark Safari* (no Apple puns intended here).

Either change the boxes to Convergys and their logo and let Convergys take
over your company or support the products your developers and product
managers labor to turn out! You have totally abdicated that support.

A retail box of MOS 2003 Pro or SBE costs about $500--so that the BCM CD is
not a coaster, Microsoft needs to commit to support it--not just PR
spin--and get Convergys out of the way. They are a wall between you and
your customers as are your Phone Route Managers--so-called "MCSDMSCC DSTR
Team LeadProduct Support: 1-800-Microsoft.

Hexadecimal error messags with a couple hundred thousand characters are of
no direct help to end users. There needs to be a way to interpret these
messages in real time so there can the information gleaned can spell repair
efficacy.
______________________________________________________________________
__________

Mini-White Paper:

*How Microsoft *Totally* Fails to Stand Behind Microsoft Office and Support
TheirProducts Because of the Poor Quality of Their Contract Support;
Microsoft Support is an Oxymoron*


Hidden or camouflaged among the Longhorn, TechNet, and MSDN Evangelist
buzz/blogs and great initiatives in a company full of dedicated and
multi-talented people at MSFT is a phenomenon that truly contstitutes the
dirty underbelly of Microsoft--"support" that is not Microsoft at all--but
an abusive sham that is a lucrative contract held by Convergys of Ohio who
boasts on their web site that they have a staff full of attorneys who are
ex-staffers on the hill (in the American Congress), and that they provide
world class support. This is a prime rip off of Microsoft and it's
customers. Whether that means "don't mess with us" or "we get results and
our calls returned inside the Beltway" I don't know or really care. The
major call centers for Convergys of Ohio are in Nova Scotia and on
Newfoundland known by many in Canada as "the rock."

On their site, Convergys boasts they "take care of their customers." I'm
going to outline *how* they take care of their customers with a $500 box of
Office Pro or SBE. It's my understanding that Tony Soprano takes care of
his customers as well. "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" is the corporate ethos when it
comes to Microsoft's customers for Convergys.

This slogan on the page below should more accurately read "Dispose of Your
Customers With Convergys--How To Quintessentially Jerk Them Around and Dump
Them Fast and Show Complete Disdain For Them" Convergys reports revenues of
2.3 Billion, and can decimate the support for a $500 box of MOS 2003. Even
if Convergys employees know nothing about the product, that doesn't stop
them from charging full steam ahead with their unique and potent combo of
arrogance and ignorance.


Take "Better Care of Your Customers" With Convergys
http://www.convergys.com/company_overview.html#better_care

This is one aspect of Microsoft where Steve Sinofsky, Jeff Raikes, Doug
Burgum, Paul Flessner, Eric Rudder, Lindsay Sparks, Jodi-Ueker-Rust, Henry
Vigil, SQL Server Product Manager Kirsten Ward, and a number of others are
asleep at the switch.

If one goes to the Microsoft Office site and reads every possible web page
associated with Outlook and BCM, they will find none of the many hoops that
may be necessary to get BCM installed and up and running due to its use of
the MSDE 2000. The tack taken is rather to scatter a few (and leave many
out) of the tips throughout 15 KBs and construct a 'Redmond Raiders of the
Lost Ark' search.

Tech Support Microsoft style has been an enormously egregious time wasting
experience. I want to distinguish Microsoft from Convergys here for good
reason. I was having trouble associating BCM with Outlook. I had read all
KBs, and appreciated and took all the suggestions posted in the Outlook and
BCM public newsgroups, here and on the web. I did everything possible to
keep the MSDE 2000 data base engine "happy" with respect to user profile,
services started, and file and print sharing.

After talking with a number of contract support people who were not
Microsoft of course, but actually Convergys although they lied and claimed
they were Microsoft employees, and whose offerings consistently were to go
to the OL toolbar and add BCM and getting the same crashes over 100 times.
No less than 10 appointments were made during the month over a period of 4
hours for each two day tandem. My support case was "escalated" to "BCM
research" No one from Convergys ever kept the appointments, or had the
courtesy or common sense to call and say something got in the way of the
obligation.

This was of course extremely time wasteful because you have to be at the
machine ready to "work with them," and by a clear phone line. It also
meant while Microsoft employees are very conscious of their own schedules,
PDAs, Tablets, Laptops, "SharePoint workspace meetings", meeting requests
and meeting workspaces, and Outlook calendars and schedules, they could
care less about the time and obligations of anyone else. There was never an
apology for these missed appointments by the glorified Microsoft phone
router manager that the phone answering temps from still another company
referred me to. The problem of 10 four hour periods that were scheduled and
blown off was brushed aside. Imagine what might happen to you if you stand
Ballmer, Raikes, Sinofsky, Burghum, Flessner or Rudder up for a scheduled
meeting, let alone ten of them, and you're on their payroll.

When I called to try to find out what happened, after trying to email
several (e-mail address removed) I got emails from two Canadian Convergys
employees in Novascotia assuring me of escalation and prompt
calls but none came, nor were any actually planned.

Finally, after calling back I was told a call would be coming. The
gentleman said he had "1/2 hour," and essentially played what I now know is
the "Convergys BCM toolbar game" to hit the toolbar for a BCM add-in and
watch the crash. He asked me to email the error messages about 3 weeks
ago, said someone would be in touch and no one was. The error messages are
all in
hexadecimal; you can't paste them; and you have nothing with which to decode
them. I screen shot them, and I pasted the ones I could in text. I emailed
these to every SP listed who had owned the case as well as the managers at
Convergys who did not seem to know much about software in general, and
certainly Windows as I later found out when they called error messages
directed at NT Build 2600 the default XP Launch build a beta SP2 build.

I never heard from them. When I called and got a manger of call routers who
claimed he was a Microsoft employee, He was over the top hostile, and
said your only support option is our contractors--take it or leave it or
I'll end the case and prevent you rcalling. It was also clear he knew as
little about Office as he did about Windows which is also the index of
Convergys' level of skill.

I received an email the next day saying my case had been closed because Iwas
using a Beta OS. In fact, reproduced the same errors on Windows XP default
launch build, Windows XP SP1, and every current SP2 build. They had
nothing to do with the build ofWindows period.

The non-technical Canadian manager who killed the case didn't seem to give
me credit for having the trouble-shooting sense to uninstalling a Beta and
BCM and to reinstall them which I had done weeks before the case was
"escalated" or asking for help. This is an old Convergys ploy. They'll
do anything they can to squirm out of support, particularly in a case like
this where they know nothing about BCM.

Convergys also does Comcast support. A couple years ago just before the
XP launch, they were telling people that Windows XP did not workwell with
Comcast's suste,. so that they could blow off support calls when
disconnections from the internet were due to problems on the line beyond the
tap, and upstream line decibel readings were well outside normal limits. I
pointed out that Bill Gates bankrolled Comcast's start and this
was absurd since Windows XP has a number of networking and broadband
configuration enhancements compared to other OS's and Wintendo (Win 9X), and
those are well discussed in the archives of TechNet, MSDN, and the XP web
pages on Microsoft's site that reference networking--some written by MS
MVPs.

A cracked RJ6 cable outside and several hardware problems beyond the cable
tap were the problem. This was Convergys being Convergys and I might add,
not being Microsoft. Convergys will do anything to weasle out of support,
because with them, the emperor has no clothes and they know little about
much of the software they are purported to have SPs (service professionals)
for.

In other words, Microsoft who touts that they make excellent software
products contracts with some of the most incompetent support on the planet.

After I pointed out the only move several Convergys tech support people
including their BCM "research" team had was to click on the toolbar to try
to add in BCM, and had little understanding of the use of the SQL server
MSDN 2000 that had been adapted as a miniversion for BCM, or the KBs the
phone routing supervisor who alleged he was a MS employee in a suburb near
Redmond snarled to take it or leave it and I got an email stating the same
thing.

This made me wonder: If Mr. Sinofsky and Mr. Raikes were getting the same
crash, would they sit at their desks and click on the toolbar for months and
embrace the Microsoft phone manager's mandate to keep on keeping on?

If I were on that product group, or part of the endless number of managers
for Office products, and I were Steve Sinofsky Office VP, Jeff Raikes and
the rest of the Office VPs, I'd want Microsoft to stand behind a $500
Microsoft box. What I have seen has been disingenous with
respect to that concept. In other words, Microsoft ain't supportin' no BCM
or Office boxes for any of us no how. I have the emails and broken
appointments and insistence that I keep clicking the toolbar to prove it. I
also don't speak hexidecimal, and make extensive use of the Event Viewer
when I can.

Microsoft needs to start supporting their products for real. I don't
believe anyone at Convergys knows a great deal about BCM and wish when
theypost instead of the alias [MSFT] those who are Convergys would be up
front and proud of their $2 plus billion dollar grossing company. Most of
us aren't fooled, and most of us know aV-1 or V-2 email is from a Convergys
employee or other contract employee and not a Microsoft employee. It would
not so much matter if the support personnel were part of J-Lo's back stage
roadies, if they knew something about the product they were supposed to
support and honored appointments.

I don't believe on the user rather than enterprise or medium business level
Microsoft, the Redmond company where Jeff Raikes works, supports their own
products at all, and I have substantive evidence to back this up.

Convergys is the *nasty* and completely incompetent underbelly of
Microsoftsupport. I would urge anyone who gets this treatment not to be
satisfiedwith it as an end result and to take it up with the real
*Microsoft,* notConvergys of Ohio. I'm hardly the lone ranger in this
perception; I've seen itfor years on the XP, IE, OE newsgroups on the web as
well as the MS groups.I see posts for help that begin "I couldn't solve this
with long waits forMicrosoft support." Youweren't waiting for Microsoft;
you were waiting for their "support" from Convergys.

Not every secretary or small business user has a help desk or IT team with
a heads up Sys/Ad or CTO attached to them. Not all of these people are
Active Directory, Windows Server 2003, Group Policy, SQL/Exchange
Afficianados with a million hacks for these products at their finger tips
and unfortunately the vast majority of them have never heard of an MSKB and
will never see one. None of them speaks hexadecimal or has the means to
interpret a long scroll down hexadecimal message that is the business end of
their errors and crashes when that's all that is available to them. Most
secretary and small business users have never heard of putting
"eventvwr.msc" into their run boxes, and even if they had, they would still
often be stuck with hexadecimal coded errors and no means to interpret them
and turn them into constructive fixes.

Chad Harris
 
X

XS11E

Anyone associated with a NG in any way should be aware that
Microsoft is totally abdicating support for their prodcuts to
Convergys of Ohio who flys this support into the ground.

Why is that any different? The last time I ever got MS to answer a
phone and actually be helpful was with a Windows 3.1 problem.

Got a problem? Ask here. You'll get an answer in a few days and that's
less time than you'd spend on hold with MS.

I have always figured (since Win95 days) that there is no help from MS
and, by not expecting any, I save myself hours of time on hold waiting
to speak to the guy who doesn't know anything or the guy who doesn't
speak English.

PS, having said the above, I should point out that MS support is no
worse than other companies, hardware and software, that I've had the
misfortune to try and contact.
 
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C

Chad Harris

XS11E--

Well said. I generally agree but don't understand why there would have
been any helpful support even in the Windows 3.1 days. I have seen
support work from Exec Soft in stark contrast to other companies--quick and
helpful. I would agree with the rest. That's why you and I rarely try to
contact any. In the case of BCM though, there wasn't a known and on the
web. Another sign it would be tough to make BCM work was that some of the
truly outstanding Outlook people anywhere who help on the Outlook and BCM
group are having problems with it. MS Support is one notch worse than other
companies though, they farm it out to Convergys and take a "see no evil hear
no evil approach." Basically they are saying: "We don't want to know about
problems unless Big Bucks Enterprises have them. We can write off the
little guys despite the mantra that in economic downturns where Big
Enterprise and Any Enterprise is reluctant to miigrate to the next big
Windows OS or MSFT Office version. If you're an individual, we don't care if
you cut up the CD-ROM, put it in a blender and mix a drink with it as long
as it wasn't pirated and we got the money for it we got after the reseller
got their slim margin."

So you don't think we could get them to put Convergys and its logo on the
boxes and make Convergs' CEO the new chief software architect?

Chad Harris
 
W

Willie

And, Now, Moving on.....
Willie



Chad Harris said:
XS11E--

Well said. I generally agree but don't understand why there would have
been any helpful support even in the Windows 3.1 days. I have seen
support work from Exec Soft in stark contrast to other companies--quick and
helpful. I would agree with the rest. That's why you and I rarely try to
contact any. In the case of BCM though, there wasn't a known and on the
web. Another sign it would be tough to make BCM work was that some of the
truly outstanding Outlook people anywhere who help on the Outlook and BCM
group are having problems with it. MS Support is one notch worse than other
companies though, they farm it out to Convergys and take a "see no evil hear
no evil approach." Basically they are saying: "We don't want to know about
problems unless Big Bucks Enterprises have them. We can write off the
little guys despite the mantra that in economic downturns where Big
Enterprise and Any Enterprise is reluctant to miigrate to the next big
Windows OS or MSFT Office version. If you're an individual, we don't care if
you cut up the CD-ROM, put it in a blender and mix a drink with it as long
as it wasn't pirated and we got the money for it we got after the reseller
got their slim margin."

So you don't think we could get them to put Convergys and its logo on the
boxes and make Convergs' CEO the new chief software architect?

Chad Harris
 
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