Why won't Windows Mail shut down?

[Cassie]

Like many other people who have bought new computers running Vista, I have
the following problem:

Whenever I try to close down Windows Mail, I am greeted by the error message
"Windows Mail has stopped working. A problem caused the program to stop
working correctly. Windows will try to find a solution"...

....which, after a period of watching ‘progress’ bars scrolling, changes to
"Windows Mail has stopped working. A problem caused the program to stop
working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a
solution is available."

I always close the program via the ‘Exit’ command in its ‘File’ menu - so,
clearly, I WANT to close the program down - so WHY does this error message
appear?
Furthermore, if I cancel the error message (rather than waiting to read the
plenary version) a new message appears, which says
"Windows will try to restart the program now" - which is precisely what I do
NOT want to happen.

When I next start Windows Mail, I see the following message in the message
preview pane:
"Windows Mail did not shutdown correctly.
The last time you ran Windows Mail it did not exit correctly. In case this
was due to a problem with the last message you were viewing, the message is
not being shown." - which message *would be* reassuring had I had an actual
problem whilst using the software, but which is somewhat frustrating to have
to read *every time* one wants to open one's email.

On the previous thread about this problem ("Windows Mail restarts after
closing" from over a year ago), the suggested ‘solutions’ were:
‘Solution’ 1) to uninstall my anti-virus program - not only does NOT (per
the previous thread) solve the issue, but the reason for which this
‘solution’ was suggested - a possible conflict with the AV program - strikes
me as nonsensical; the problem does NOT occur when one attempts to START
Windows Mail, or whilst one is using it and it is trying to access System
files/the hard drive, it occurs when one tries to CLOSE the program.
WHY would any AV program try to prevent any process from *ceasing* to access
the System files/hard drive/web? But I digress...
Most importantly, given that I am using the platform & software that are the
two most-targeted by Spammers & malware, the suggestion that I should remove
all my protective programs is possibly the mostest stupidest thing that I've
ever read;

‘Solution’ 2) to delete the POP3 (email) account that uses Windows Mail, and
then to re-install it - which, whilst it seems to make more sense than 1)
again, does not solve the problem;

‘Solution’ 3) to check the program's settings for automatically checking for
new mail - which I have disabled, in order to have control - and to vary them
(although in which direction is not specified. This, again, Does. Not. Solve.
The. Problem.

So, as this problem does not appear to have been solved, I am raising it
again.

FURTHER INFORMATION
This error message does NOT appear when logged-in to Vista as a user who
does not have a POP3 account set up - it ONLY appears when the program
actually has access to an email account. If one is logged-in as a User for
whom Windows Mail does NOT have access to any email account, the program
always shuts down properly, with no complaint.

Can anybody tell me why this problem occurs?
Is it because of some conflict between Windows Mail (Outlook Express 6) and
the settings/old messages that I imported with a Windows Easy Transfer Cable
from the older version of Outlook Express on my old PC?
If this IS the case, *why* has the program been released without
backwards-compatibility?
Is it that the program is badly-written - which is (I would hope) rather
unlikely?

More importantly, can anybody out there tell me how to prevent this problem
from ocurring (apart from leaving Windows Mail running constantly, which I do
not wish to do)?
IS there now a patch available to solve the problem?
(I expect that there is not, as I have set Vista to automatuically download
& install all updates.)

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

If you are not willing to try the advice from seasoned experts
("It could be your antivirus") then there is not much point in asking
for help here.

Email scanning in any antivirus must be disabled, for
reasons explained here:
http://thundercloud.net/infoave/tutorials/email-scanning/index.htm

If turning off the email scanning function does not resolve your problem,
do a trial uninstall of your antivirus. If no improvement, you can
always reinstall it. Instead of uninstalling your antivirus, consider
upgrading to Windows Live Mail, because it is less prone to
suffering bad effects from overly aggressive antivirus programs.
http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview

 

[Earle Horton]

FWIW, I am using Windows Live Onecare anti-virus, default settings, with
Windows Mail and it is not showing Cassie's problem. No unexplained crashes
from Windows Mail and no problems closing the program. Windows Live Onecare
comes with a free trial, sixty days I think. Most of the
anti-virus/security programs come with something similar. There does not
appear to be a bug in Windows Mail which is causing Cassie's problem in an
of itself. There may be a program or corrupt data file, or perhaps even
Cassie's email server is causing this.

Cassie, using Windows Easy Transfer is one of the best ways I know of to
make your new Vista computer even more bloated than it already is. I
stopped it after I noticed it transferring the contents of my i386 directory
and device drivers from my old Thinkpad to my new Dell. I would have
suggested importing/transferring Outlook Express messages and settings
manually. You are right that disabling your anti-virus is not a good idea,
but if you have outgoing email scanning turned on, then that wins the
competition for "the mostest stupidest thing that I've ever read". Outgoing
email scanning doesn't help anybody. It just makes email programs not work.

Now is your anti-virus up to date? Having an anti-virus that is not up to
date is almost as bad as having none at all.

I have it on pretty good authority that there has been no meaningful
development on Windows Mail for at least two years. That would seem to
eliminate the possibility of "a patch available to solve the problem". It
is indeed possible that "the program is badly-written", much more likely
than you think.

Cheers,

Earle

 

[Steve Cochran]

There are some antivirus programs that are compatible with WinMail, if you
turn off email scanning (its redundant and not needed). But with others,
WinMail simply will not work. The antivirus companies are aware of this,
but they don't care, since you already purchased Vista and the AV software,
its no longer their problem.

So if you want WinMail to work, then you have to get antivirus software that
doesn't break it.

steve

 

[Cassie]

@ Gary VanderMolen

Re: "If you are not willing to try the advice from seasoned experts
("It could be your antivirus") then there is not much point in asking
for help here"

If "seasoned experts" are not willing to actually READ what they have been
asked, then there is little point in their replying to any questions on here.
I specifically refer to the point in my (admittedly very lengthy) original
post that I quote herebelow (please read the bit between the asterisks):

‘Solution’ 1) to uninstall my anti-virus program - ***not only does NOT (per
the previous thread) solve the issue***

Your proposed solution DOES NOT WORK.
Which is the reason for which I have posted this question, AND INCLUDED the
fact that your ‘solution’ of turning-off the anti-virus software DOES NOT
WORK.

If you can offer any actual solution to the problem, I'll be very happy to
read it, and grateful to you for helping me.
If, on the other hand, you intend to merely insult me, then I think it would
be better if you stayed out of the discussion.

Re:
"If turning off the email scanning function does not resolve your problem,
do a trial uninstall of your antivirus. If no improvement, you can
always reinstall it. Instead of uninstalling your antivirus, consider
upgrading to Windows Live Mail, because it is less prone to
suffering bad effects from overly aggressive antivirus programs."

So, given that removing anti-virus programs DOES NOT WORK, what you are
saying is that Windows Mail is just not fit for purpose?
After all, if a program that is intended to retrieve remotely-stored
information, unsolicited elements of which are highly likely to be infected
with malware, is rendered inoperable by anti-virus software, then how can it
be considered usable?

If this *is* the case, I guess that I'll just have to reassign my email
address to a free web-based email provider, or try installing another email
client, such as Mozilla's ‘Thunderbird’.

Furthermore, if (as you acknoweldged with the statement "if no improvement")
disabling/uninstalling anti-virus protection does NOT solve the problem
(which it doesn't), WHY would you suggest switching email clients to one that
is "less prone to suffering bad effects from overly aggressive antivirus
programs"?
An "overly aggressive anti-virus program" is NOT the cause of the problem.

That's like suggesting that, even though a car won't start *whether or not*
there is an air-freshener hanging from its rear-view mirror, the person whose
car won't start should make sure that there is no air-freshener hanging from
the car's rear-view mirror.
It's a non-sequitur.

-----
Just to uttelry disambiguate my query, I am rephrasing it:

Whenever I try to close down Windows Mail, it generates error messages
telling me that it has encountered a problem that has stopped it working
properly, and that is trying to reastart.

DISABLING/UNINSTALLING MY ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE ***HAS NO EFFECT***.
IF I REMOVE THE ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE FROM THE PC, I ***STILL*** SEE THE ERROR
MESSAGE.

What uninstalling the anti-virus software DOES do is leave my PC open to
time-consuming (and potentially very expensive-to-rectify) infection with
malware.

 

[Cassie]

Thank you Earle,

I was wary of using the Easy Transfer cable, but as I had to transfer the
whole family's data (settings, files, photos, music etc), and quickly too, I
had to do it. I've been trimming out unnecessary old files as I find them,
but I guess that I probably still have an awful lot left to find.

My anti-virus IS up-to-date, but even uninstalling it didn't stop the error
message from appearing. Which is rather frustrating. And suggests that, as
you say, I may have some corrupted System files, or that there's a problem at
my ISP's end.

I'll contact them and see whether they'll admit to having problems with
WinMail.
If the ISP don't acknowledge the fault, I guess that I'll just have to wipe
the whole PC, re-install everything from the ground up, and then manually
transfer all the old data.
As the optical disk writer on my old PC died, I REALLY hope that it doesn't
come to this <sigh>.

Cheers,
Cassie.

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

We have no way of pulling up what transpired previously, so your
reference to an unnamed "previous thread" is meaningless.
Each thread should be standalone in itself.
If you previously uninstalled your antivirus, which antivirus was it,
and did you follow it up with the special debris removal tool?
Both McAfee and Norton are notorious for leaving trouble-causing
junk behind when uninstalled.

Also, turning off the anti-virus software is different than uninstalling it.
Turning off is seldom effective in the case of McAfee, Norton, and
Trend Micro antivirus.

Disabling email scanning in antivirus software other than the three
mentioned above is often sufficient for the antivirus and Windows Mail
to live in harmony.

We have never recommended that you leave your PC without any
antivirus protection. Only a brief test is appropriate. There are
plenty of antivirus products that are compatible with Windows Mail.

Why would you consider switching to Mozilla Thunderbird without
first trying Windows Live Mail? It doesn't make sense.

The bottom line is that you should have a little faith in the recommendations
of techs who have worked these issues for a long time, and know all the
ins and outs.

 

[Hal Hostetler [MVP-P/I]]

I don't see a question being asked or a problem being described in your
post. Have you one? Bashing Gary surely won't help fix your computer...

Hal

 

[Gary VanderMolen]

Since you did not quote the post of mine you found offensive,
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I suggest you read a representative sample of my posts in this
forum before you decide I am not helpful.

 

[Sam Hobbs]

Gary VanderMolen is not a representative of Microsoft. Gary VanderMolen is
more of a victim of Microsoft than anything else. Gary VanderMolen is trying
to help other victims. Note the abundance of messages in this newsgroup.
Note that there are many answers that are very simple answers. Most
questions can be solved by reading; either the documentation or by reading
previous messages in this newsgroup.

I don't know what the situation was that provoked your frustration but I get
the impression that you are or will be more frustrated with Linux. Linux
often requires people to read the documentation. Actually Linux would be
better for you since you have much more to complain about and you need that.