Why reply at the bottom of posts?

[Marc]

Re. Usenet, I have been around for a long time under various guises and from
a variety of locations, but who cares.. I adapted to using OE, and
regardless of old Usenet rules, I use it in a way that suits me while still
helping those who ask for it.. is that not what newsgroups are all about?..
standing on ceremony all of the time holds progress back..

I don't think Microsoft were thinking progress, they just used the same
code for replying to emails.

Then again, not adhering to standards and inventing your own is a
favourite pastime of Microsoft's

 

[kurttrail]

I don't think Microsoft were thinking progress, they just used the
same code for replying to emails.

Yep. More about getting away with doing as little as possible, rather
than trying to move Newsgroup communications along.

Then again, not adhering to standards and inventing your own is a
favourite pastime of Microsoft's

To MS, there is no thing as any standard that didn't come from within
MS.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Marc

We all consider our own adopted way to be best.. that is why the top post -
bottom post discussion goes on..

 

[Leythos]

Marc

We all consider our own adopted way to be best.. that is why the top post -
bottom post discussion goes on..

But do you really think that people actually think their way is best, or
is it just the they really think that being ignorant of respected
methods and what could be seen as the "proper" method is OK since they
don't really care enough to learn before they start doing?

When I joined Usenet in the early 80's I was very impressed with the
ability to interact with diverse groups in many locations at one time. I
was very impressed with the structure and methods and would read to
learn for hours. I didn't start seeing the top-posting waves of what
many of us considered ignorant users until MS setup OE to provide an
interface to Usenet. Before that time, Usenet was limited to those that
learned about it's existence and then could find a client to access it.

When people learn that servers don't retail every article, that they
should strip out the parts of a post they are not addressing, that the
Sig is suppose to be 4 lines or less, that you are suppose to snip the
sig in a reply, that 72 or 73 characters is considered the EOL, that
using HTML is bad form in most all groups, and that articles are ready
by the masses not just the person that is being replied to, they
sometimes change their ways, the others just remain stubborn and rude.

 

[kurttrail]

Unless you want to have a Net Gestapo, then people will post as they see
fit.

But those of us that have seen your Authoritarian side know that is just
what you long for, enforced conformity.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

Unless you want to have a Net Gestapo, then people will post as they see
fit.

But those of us that have seen your Authoritarian side know that is just
what you long for, enforced conformity.

Yea, I love you too

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Leythos

Sorry but I have way more important issues and worries than whether bottom
posting should be enforced.. I just don't think that it is an issue worth
getting uptight about.. postulate as the last great Usenet purist if you
will, but I have little time for it.. all just elitist crap, and sounding a
little like those who claim to have been in Yahoo chat forever.. who the
hell cares?.. just get a life, y'all..

 

[kurttrail]

Yea, I love you too

Sure you do.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[ITinerant]

After much discussion "ITinerant" wanted to thank all that contributed...

Thank you all so much for such a lively discussion.
I see that there are a few who feel strongly about this topic.
I've decided to keep my opinions and preferences to myself.
The manner in which this message is posted might give a clue.
I am glad I asked. It has been enlightening to say the least.
I look forward to seeing your posts in the near future.

/ ITinerant

<snip>

Hi,
I'm just curious as to why so many replies are under the original post
instead of at the top?
Personally I find this annoying to have to scroll to the bottom to see the
latest reply.
In fact, I usually go on to the next post when I'm just lurking.

What news reader are folks using that does this?

This isn't meant to be a mean spirited question.

/ ITinerant

<snip>

 

[Leythos]

Leythos

Sorry but I have way more important issues and worries than whether bottom
posting should be enforced.. I just don't think that it is an issue worth
getting uptight about..

I wasn't and don't get upset about it. The thing that upsets me is that
MS ruined a good thing by being sloppy.

postulate as the last great Usenet purist if you
will, but I have little time for it.. all just elitist crap, and sounding a
little like those who claim to have been in Yahoo chat forever.. who the
hell cares?.. just get a life, y'all..

Elitist? You mean that following the rules and recommendations that go
back as far as it's founding means that one is trying to be elitist? I
could say the same, trying to change the way a system works, the norms,
the recommendations, for no reason other than ones own personal self
interest, that would be elitist - wouldn't it?

 

[kurttrail]

I wasn't and don't get upset about it. The thing that upsets me is
that MS ruined a good thing by being sloppy.


Elitist? You mean that following the rules and recommendations that go
back as far as it's founding means that one is trying to be elitist? I
could say the same, trying to change the way a system works, the
norms, the recommendations, for no reason other than ones own
personal self interest, that would be elitist - wouldn't it?

It is that classic battle of tradition values v. individual rights.
Some people are torries and whigs trying to enforce traditional values,
while individuals are just gonna tell you conformists types to f*#k off.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[WhoDat]

Oh boy, here we go again. Mention top posting, or criticize eXPerience in
this place and hell hath no fury like an XP-lover scorned.

| Hi,
| I'm just curious as to why so many replies are under the original post
| instead of at the top?
| Personally I find this annoying to have to scroll to the bottom to see the
| latest reply.
| In fact, I usually go on to the next post when I'm just lurking.
|
| What news reader are folks using that does this?
|
| This isn't meant to be a mean spirited question.
|
| / ITinerant
|
|

 

[Nightowl]

Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote on Mon, 15 Aug 2005:

postulate as the last great Usenet purist if you
will, but I have little time for it.. all just elitist crap, and sounding a
little like those who claim to have been in Yahoo chat forever.. who the
hell cares?.. just get a life, y'all..

My objection to top-posters is that they also top-post their signature
above quotes, which then get cut off when replying with
standards-compliant newsreaders. That is not "elitist crap", Mike, it's
a genuine headache OE users should be aware of. I'm surprised to see
several MVPs persist in posting this way and it's something I've only
ever seen in these Microsoft groups.

Who the hell cares? you ask. Well, I don't think a little bit of
consideration towards fellow posters is too much to ask. YMMV.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

NightOwl

I am no great fan of continually having to scroll down.. and the
consideration for people like me is where?..

The major difference is that while I may respond giving my thoughts on it, I
do not keep going on about it.. I accept that some top post and some bottom
post..

 

[kurttrail]

My objection to top-posters is that they also top-post their signature
above quotes, which then get cut off when replying with
standards-compliant newsreaders. That is not "elitist crap", Mike,
it's a genuine headache OE users should be aware of. I'm surprised to
see several MVPs persist in posting this way and it's something I've
only ever seen in these Microsoft groups.

Who the hell cares? you ask. Well, I don't think a little bit of
consideration towards fellow posters is too much to ask. YMMV.

I really don't see the big deal about the sig and all the previous posts
except the one you are replying to getting snipped automatically.

As a matter of fact, it would seem to be of help keeping post size to a
minimum. Not quoting the whole damned thread would seem to more
respectful of those that have bandwidth limits.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Kelly]

If I had my way, I would do away with web based newsgroups and have

everybody use OE or similar as their newsreader..

AMEN!

However, I speak this because it is the only way I know and have used. I
find all other measures uncomfortable. Not that I can not be a conformist
if need be, just feel comfort enough where I am.
--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

Leythos

I only ever keep public posts for 5 days.. in that period of time, the
only postings that grow quickly are where people are arguing.. I try to
avoid posts where there are a large number of threads, and I remember the
ones that interest me.. and I never scan Google groups or look back for
anything other than what I have flagged.. I also think that if one reads
threads starting with the original post, there is a better chance of
getting a full picture.. sometimes, the threads in between lack info that
may have been pertinent because of careless snipping.. of course, doing it
this way leads to much frustration when I have to scroll down to the lower
portion of each thread..

Re. Usenet, I have been around for a long time under various guises and
from a variety of locations, but who cares.. I adapted to using OE, and
regardless of old Usenet rules, I use it in a way that suits me while
still helping those who ask for it.. is that not what newsgroups are all
about?.. standing on ceremony all of the time holds progress back..

If I had my way, I would do away with web based newsgroups and have
everybody use OE or similar as their newsreader..

 

[Kelly]

I wasn't and don't get upset about it. The thing that upsets me is that

MS ruined a good thing by being sloppy.

I see now where your point of view comes from and you are clearly justified
to your comments. As for myself, I can definitely relate to not being nor
meeting standards, as by my nature.

Thinking back on it, who would have thought MS would support people writing
edits, scripts and utilities that they promote to change Windows code? )
--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[Kelly]

Hey now.....WhoDat belongs to Saints fans! )

--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[Kelly]

Hi Kurt,

I can see his point even though I can't relate. (

What seems to be an annoyance (to only OE users, dunno?) are the msft posts
that come through here (tomcat) with nothing attached.
--

All the Best,
Kelly (MS-MVP)

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

 

[kurttrail]

Hi Kurt,

I can see his point even though I can't relate. (

What seems to be an annoyance (to only OE users, dunno?) are the msft
posts that come through here (tomcat) with nothing attached.

I understand what he is complaining about, but it is more that his
newsreader doesn't handle that situation correctly. OE with OE quotefix
took your sig above out but left all of the rest.

He should be complaining about how his own newsreader works, not about
where those like you put there sig.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"