Why do PC manufacturers not supply O/S CD's with there products

[kurttrail]

No one has mentioned what I believe is the main reason they don't
include a Windows CD. It saves them a lot of money on tech support.
Their first line of support is to get you run the factory recovery
that is on a hidden partition on the hard drive. You are off the
phone in five minutes and most software problems are fixed.
Unfortunately all your data and any programs you may have installed
are gone but their support costs must be way down.

Now that makes sense.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[David Candy]

It all comes from decades ago. MS wants OEM customers. OEMs compete against each other. Big OEMs threaten MS to not supply computers with windows (at the time we'll supply it with GEM or something)unless MS gives less price. You get this compromise where only the end user suffers. MS is happy and OEM is happy (because they now have lower price than small competitors).

I think tech support costs were just a free bonus initially.

 

[Alias]

I don't believe that. Do you have some documentation that it is
cheaper?

Dell ships millions of PCs. At even 50 cents a CD, that's money.

Alias

 

[jules]

Although you may not have the installation CD there may 'by chance' be
a copy of it on the hard drive which one could copy to CD...!

http://ask-leo.com/i_dont_have_an_installation_cd_for_windows_xp_what_if_i_need_one.html

I have never seen an OEM PC that didn't have an I386 folder on it.

But the all important information this article fails to contain is
whether you can reinstall Windows using the files in that folder. Or
whether you could create your own Windows setup CD by copying the
folder to a CD, and reinstall Windows from that?. Or build a CD from it
using nlite (http://www.nliteos.com) and reinstall from that?

 

[kurttrail]

Dell ships millions of PCs. At even 50 cents a CD, that's money.

At the volume that Dell ships PCs, it is probably more like a couple of
cents per CD. Still would add up, but it is certainly not worth the ten
to twenty dollars they charge customers for that CD.

And it costs Dell money to develop and test their recovery partition
solutions, so who knows if that is really cheaper than just issuing CDs.

But the reason, that Kerry mentioned, makes the most sense to me, that
the recovery partition solution is cheaper for the OEM in tech support
costs.

Dell Customer: Hi Dell phone rep from India, I got X problem.

Dell Indian: Back up your system and use our recobery software.

Same answer for whatever problem X is equal to. Hell the Indians may
get outsourced to an automated phone system one day! ;-)

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[R. McCarty]

I suspect that the Recovery Partition, along with it's other stated
benefits is the fact it "Stays" with the PC. Not to disparage customers
but it's fairly common knowledge they cannot keep up with Disks,
Passwords or documentation.

Yesterday, I got to speak with Dell Technical Support - it's great
therapy. Speak calmly for 4 minutes before bursting into a tirade.
All the ACD message queue lacks is a reminder "To drop your IQ
by 40 Points and S P E A K very S L O W L Y".

 

[R. McCarty]

It's actually pretty easy. Build a Bootable CD-R with SmartDrive,
format the XP partition to FAT32 (To be able to mount/use it).
Before burning i386 to the CD-R - just slipstream it to SP2. You
just have to remove the existing Service Pack Inf to be able to
integrate the latest SP into it (i386). Boot the CD-R and invoke
the WinNT.Exe module to start the installation.

 

[Alias]

At the volume that Dell ships PCs, it is probably more like a couple of
cents per CD. Still would add up, but it is certainly not worth the ten
to twenty dollars they charge customers for that CD.

And it costs Dell money to develop and test their recovery partition
solutions, so who knows if that is really cheaper than just issuing CDs.

But the reason, that Kerry mentioned, makes the most sense to me, that
the recovery partition solution is cheaper for the OEM in tech support
costs.

Dell Customer: Hi Dell phone rep from India, I got X problem.

Dell Indian: Back up your system and use our recobery software.

Same answer for whatever problem X is equal to. Hell the Indians may
get outsourced to an automated phone system one day! ;-)

I still think it's about money.

Alias

 

[kurttrail]

I still think it's about money.

Alias

Yeah, but not the CD vs. Disk partition costs, because who knows which
is really cheaper. Those cost of the additional software for recovery
may be as much or more than just doing the Windows CD.

Without some real evidence, I'm not gonna just believe that the CD
option is more expensive than the partition option.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Leythos]

If it makes sense to you, then that is reason enough to question it, and
to want some real proof.


You mean like the mouse or the keyboard? Seems that keeping track of a
simple CD would just be part of that same process.


LOL! Most computers, even ones with recovery images come with a CD or
two too.

And every part you remove is one less part to track, to get lost in
shipping process, to have users complain about not being able to find,
etc.... If it doesn't make sense to you, well, I understand that (for
you), but I never expect you to agree with anyone unless they have their
tinfoil hat on

 

[Leythos]

Yeah, but not the CD vs. Disk partition costs, because who knows which
is really cheaper. Those cost of the additional software for recovery
may be as much or more than just doing the Windows CD.

The initial development of the recovery partition and the diagnostic
tools is more expensive, but the ROI is there. With the recovery
partition, and we're expanding on the CD case here, not only do they
eliminate one item from inventory and tracking, they also get to use the
neat little diag utility that allows their off-shore script readers to
walk you through the process of determining how quickly they get to ask
you to wipe/reinstall your machine using the util partition. That saves
money too.

 

[Dick Miller]

Same answer for whatever problem X is equal to. Hell the Indians may
get outsourced to an automated phone system one day! ;-)

I read somewhere, maybe the NY Times, that the Indians are now
sub-outsourcing to the small villages.

 

[kurttrail]

The initial development of the recovery partition and the diagnostic
tools is more expensive, but the ROI is there.

And licensing costs too, I would think.

With the recovery
partition, and we're expanding on the CD case here, not only do they
eliminate one item from inventory and tracking, they also get to use
the neat little diag utility that allows their off-shore script
readers to walk you through the process of determining how quickly
they get to ask you to wipe/reinstall your machine using the util
partition. That saves money too.

Yes Kerry mentioned that, and I expanded on it, but that is tangential.
A straight up cost of partition recovery v. CD install disk I'm not sure
which costs more and without hard numbers, I will never be certain about
it.

You can base your opinion on faith, but I prefer to base my beliefs on
something a little more substantial.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[kurttrail]

And every part you remove is one less part to track, to get lost in
shipping process, to have users complain about not being able to find,
etc....

It's easier to see a CD, rather than check to see if the recovery
partition has been imaged properly.

If it doesn't make sense to you, well, I understand that (for
you), but I never expect you to agree with anyone unless they have
their tinfoil hat on

LOL! What does wanting some real numbers to base an opinion on have to
do with a tin-foil hat?

I don't know which is more expensive, the CD or the recovery partition,
and I'm not about to extablish an opinion one way or another based on
nothing more than feeling or faith. Give me facts in the form of real
costs, not anymore BS.

--
Peace!
Kurt Kirsch
Self-anointed Moderator
http://microscum.com
"It'll soon shake your Windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'."

 

[Breaker]

I recently purchased a Dell laptop,

I paid the extra for Windows XP Professional because I am a software
developer and I require it for apps such as .net.

Why on earth did I never get the offer of an O/S disk to come with the laptop?

and

Do I really need one? for re-installs, drivers and networking etc...

If some one could shed some light on this that would be appreciated

Regards,

You wont get an offer for it because they use a hidden partiton on the
hard drive to store the recovery image. (Which they can do because it
satisfies their agreement with MS for the software)

You can however get them to send you one. Simply email or call them
and demand that you be sent an XP CD for your laptop.

They will send one if you make enough noise. Be aware though it is
most likely going to cost you. On my laptop it cost me like $26 from
Dell for the CD pack. Included the XP CD as well as all the drivers,
apps etc that came pre-loaded on the machine. (3 CDs in all)

They tried to tell me I had no need for one. But I told them I did
need one because if for some reason the hard drive failed then I would
have no way to reload my laptop.

 

[Breaker]

How Do I Create a CD Containing My Operating System with the Dell OS Recovery Utility?
http://support.dell.com/support/top...rt/dsn/en/document?c=us&l=en&s=gen&dn=1091713

Not every Dell comes with that Utility Carey. My Inspiron Laptop did
not come with this uitlity and Dell told me when I asked them that
there was no way to create a backup OS CD on my laptop from the hidden
recovery partition. I had to demand the OS CD from them which they
finally grudgingly sent (after charging me $26 for it)

 

[Breaker]

Exactly. Thanks for confirming my belief, I don't own a Dell but I was
quite certain what you describe is true. What's interesting is that when
you buy the system, you'll need to pay extra to get the discs, but getting
them later costs nothing. Go figure.

That is not necessarily true. Mine cost $26 when I asked for them
after the fact. They were not free.

 

[Alias]

It's actually pretty easy. Build a Bootable CD-R with SmartDrive,
format the XP partition to FAT32 (To be able to mount/use it).
Before burning i386 to the CD-R - just slipstream it to SP2. You
just have to remove the existing Service Pack Inf to be able to
integrate the latest SP into it (i386). Boot the CD-R and invoke
the WinNT.Exe module to start the installation.

Easy for a tech like you, maybe, but not the rest of us non techie peons.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Not every Dell comes with that Utility Carey. My Inspiron Laptop did
not come with this uitlity and Dell told me when I asked them that
there was no way to create a backup OS CD on my laptop from the hidden
recovery partition. I had to demand the OS CD from them which they
finally grudgingly sent (after charging me $26 for it)

Well now we know why they do and how they make money doing it.

Alias

 

[David]

This post is just to fix the subject line.

David