Why do defender definition updates bring systems to their knees?


W

Warren

Any Windows XP system that I have used (including ones with 3+GHz processors
and 2+Gb memory) while a Windows Defender definition update is installed is
always brought to a standstill while the update is installed. That's not
nice. It's not appreciated, given how often a update is needed. It makes me
want to do without defender. Is there any chance this beast can be better
socialized?
 
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T

Tim Clark

Warren,

How do you normally update ?
[e.g. AU {WU/MU}, UI {Check for Updates}, Manual download {from Engels link
or the Portal}

I usually download Engels Link and double click on the file. It takes about
5 seconds Max for the update to install.

Perhaps the delay you are having has to do with the download itself and not
install, are you using a modem?

Tim
 
W

Warren

This is definitely an installation delay. I'm notified that an update exists
by windows update. I give permission for the update to be downloaded (but not
installed) over a broadband (or T1) connection. Sometime later I give
permission for the update to be installed. At that time, the total
consumption of all CPU resources occurs and the length of time depends on the
speed of the CPU. No other update of any other definition-type data
(Symantec, Spybot S&D, ...) or even updates of windows components or
installed programs is nearly so effective at pigging up the CPU as are the
Windows Defender updates. Even Adobe's updates behave better and they have
never played nice on Windows machines.

Tim Clark said:
Warren,

How do you normally update ?
[e.g. AU {WU/MU}, UI {Check for Updates}, Manual download {from Engels link
or the Portal}

I usually download Engels Link and double click on the file. It takes about
5 seconds Max for the update to install.

Perhaps the delay you are having has to do with the download itself and not
install, are you using a modem?

Tim
--
If you set a Vista disk in the CD tray upside down,
you can hear SATANIC VOICES!
But that isn't the worst of it,
if you set it the right way IT INSTALLS VISTA!

:
Any Windows XP system that I have used (including ones with 3+GHz processors
and 2+Gb memory) while a Windows Defender definition update is installed is
always brought to a standstill while the update is installed. That's not
nice. It's not appreciated, given how often a update is needed. It makes me
want to do without defender. Is there any chance this beast can be better
socialized?
 
T

Tim Clark

Well,

One difference between your method of updating and mine is that using the AU
method causes the creation of a System Restore Point. So when you give
permission to install Two things are happening in Succession.

1. A System Restore Point is created [which I'm sure is using the CPU as
well as doing a lot of writing to the disk].
2. The Update itself is immediately applied after that.

My question for you is How Long does this take.
If it's a High CPU usage for 3-5 seconds I would not care.
If it's a High CPU usage for 20-30 seconds then I might care.

It could also be that I generally Don't Do Anything during an update of
Anything except allow the update to occur so I don't notice anything else
being affected.

Tim
 
E

Engel

Hello Tim,

Please confirm. Regards Restore Point

Using my link, you don't get a Restore Point ??

What about the Portal ??

TIA
- -- --


DIFFICULTY
The difficulty in life is the choice.-----George Moore


Tim Clark said:
Well,

One difference between your method of updating and mine is that using the AU
method causes the creation of a System Restore Point. So when you give
permission to install Two things are happening in Succession.

1. A System Restore Point is created [which I'm sure is using the CPU as
well as doing a lot of writing to the disk].
2. The Update itself is immediately applied after that.

My question for you is How Long does this take.
If it's a High CPU usage for 3-5 seconds I would not care.
If it's a High CPU usage for 20-30 seconds then I might care.

It could also be that I generally Don't Do Anything during an update of
Anything except allow the update to occur so I don't notice anything else
being affected.

Tim
--
If you set a Vista disk in the CD tray upside down,
you can hear SATANIC VOICES!
But that isn't the worst of it,
if you set it the right way IT INSTALLS VISTA!


Warren said:
This is definitely an installation delay. I'm notified that an update exists
by windows update. I give permission for the update to be downloaded (but not
installed) over a broadband (or T1) connection. Sometime later I give
permission for the update to be installed. At that time, the total
consumption of all CPU resources occurs and the length of time depends on the
speed of the CPU. No other update of any other definition-type data
(Symantec, Spybot S&D, ...) or even updates of windows components or
installed programs is nearly so effective at pigging up the CPU as are the
Windows Defender updates. Even Adobe's updates behave better and they have
never played nice on Windows machines.
 
T

Tim Clark

Engel,

My Good and Dear Friend :)

Why do you think I wait for your link with Bated Breath?
One of the main reasons is that your link DOES NOT CREATE A SYSTEM RESTORE
POINT !!!

I've pointed this out before but I will reiterate.

The Defender Update itself DOES NOT CREATE A RESTORE POINT!!!
It is the Method of downloading that triggers the creation of an SRP.

AU {WU/MU} BY DESIGN trigger the creation of an SRP. Most of the time this
is a Good thing as it involves Patch Tuesday and Major changes to the system.
It is however unnecessary for something as minor a definition update.
The UI of Defender [Check for Updates] also creates an SRP as it "invokes"
in someway, shape, or form, AU .

I believe that it works the same for the Portal [i.e. No SRP] but I only
tried it once when it was first introduced. The full download from the
Portal is just too time consuming for my modem to do on a daily basis.

Of course this is my experience with XP, it could be different with Vista.
Hope this answers the question.
And I Thank as always for the links,
and Now you know why ;)

Tim
:
Hello Tim,
Please confirm. Regards Restore Point
Using my link, you don't get a Restore Point ??
What about the Portal ??

TIA
Tim Clark said:
Well,

One difference between your method of updating and mine is that using the AU
method causes the creation of a System Restore Point. So when you give
permission to install Two things are happening in Succession.

1. A System Restore Point is created [which I'm sure is using the CPU as
well as doing a lot of writing to the disk].
2. The Update itself is immediately applied after that.

My question for you is How Long does this take.
If it's a High CPU usage for 3-5 seconds I would not care.
If it's a High CPU usage for 20-30 seconds then I might care.

It could also be that I generally Don't Do Anything during an update of
Anything except allow the update to occur so I don't notice anything else
being affected.

Tim
--
If you set a Vista disk in the CD tray upside down,
you can hear SATANIC VOICES!
But that isn't the worst of it,
if you set it the right way IT INSTALLS VISTA!


Warren said:
This is definitely an installation delay. I'm notified that an update exists
by windows update. I give permission for the update to be downloaded (but not
installed) over a broadband (or T1) connection. Sometime later I give
permission for the update to be installed. At that time, the total
consumption of all CPU resources occurs and the length of time depends on the
speed of the CPU. No other update of any other definition-type data
(Symantec, Spybot S&D, ...) or even updates of windows components or
installed programs is nearly so effective at pigging up the CPU as are the
Windows Defender updates. Even Adobe's updates behave better and they have
never played nice on Windows machines.
 
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E

Engel

Hi Tim,

★★★★★ rating your pºst

I hope your post is helpful for the users, but we would highly appreciate
it if Warren could rate the pºst, so we can keep the community informed
and saves somebody else the hours of trawling through the web trying to
find a solutiºn.

Have a happy holiday season Tim, and thanks for writing back
- -- ---



LEARNING
A wise man gets learning from those who have none themselves.


Tim Clark said:
Engel,

My Good and Dear Friend :)

Why do you think I wait for your link with Bated Breath?
One of the main reasons is that your link DOES NOT CREATE A SYSTEM RESTORE
POINT !!!

I've pointed this out before but I will reiterate.

The Defender Update itself DOES NOT CREATE A RESTORE POINT!!!
It is the Method of downloading that triggers the creation of an SRP.

AU {WU/MU} BY DESIGN trigger the creation of an SRP. Most of the time this
is a Good thing as it involves Patch Tuesday and Major changes to the system.
It is however unnecessary for something as minor a definition update.
The UI of Defender [Check for Updates] also creates an SRP as it "invokes"
in someway, shape, or form, AU .

I believe that it works the same for the Portal [i.e. No SRP] but I only
tried it once when it was first introduced. The full download from the
Portal is just too time consuming for my modem to do on a daily basis.

Of course this is my experience with XP, it could be different with Vista.
Hope this answers the question.
And I Thank as always for the links,
and Now you know why ;)

Tim
:
Hello Tim,
Please confirm. Regards Restore Point
Using my link, you don't get a Restore Point ??
What about the Portal ??

TIA
Tim Clark said:
Well,

One difference between your method of updating and mine is that using the AU
method causes the creation of a System Restore Point. So when you give
permission to install Two things are happening in Succession.

1. A System Restore Point is created [which I'm sure is using the CPU as
well as doing a lot of writing to the disk].
2. The Update itself is immediately applied after that.

My question for you is How Long does this take.
If it's a High CPU usage for 3-5 seconds I would not care.
If it's a High CPU usage for 20-30 seconds then I might care.

It could also be that I generally Don't Do Anything during an update of
Anything except allow the update to occur so I don't notice anything else
being affected.

Tim
--
If you set a Vista disk in the CD tray upside down,
you can hear SATANIC VOICES!
But that isn't the worst of it,
if you set it the right way IT INSTALLS VISTA!


:

This is definitely an installation delay. I'm notified that an update exists
by windows update. I give permission for the update to be downloaded (but not
installed) over a broadband (or T1) connection. Sometime later I give
permission for the update to be installed. At that time, the total
consumption of all CPU resources occurs and the length of time depends on the
speed of the CPU. No other update of any other definition-type data
(Symantec, Spybot S&D, ...) or even updates of windows components or
installed programs is nearly so effective at pigging up the CPU as are the
Windows Defender updates. Even Adobe's updates behave better and they have
never played nice on Windows machines.
 
E

Engel

Hi Warren,

By rating Tim's post as an answer, you help others find the answer more
quickly,
you give the person who posted the answer credit for their contribution, and
you help increase the quality of answers in the discussion group.

Have a happy holiday season
- - - -.



TIME
To choose time is to save time. -----Bacon
 
T

Tim Clark

Engel said:
Hi Tim,
★★★★★ rating your pºst
I hope your post is helpful for the users, but we would highly appreciate
it if Warren could rate the pºst,...
Thanks Engel for the 5 stars :)
but it is still too early to tell if it was helpful or not.
I gave an example of how we update differently but he has not had enough
time to reply after trying anything differently.

I would still like to know in what way he is "actually" effected [5 sec
slowdown/freeze or 30 sec] or is the High CPU usage [for whatever length of
time] just annoying to him in principle.

He may not be able to test until the next update,
in which case Your Link become even more important ;-)

Good Holidays to you as well :)

Tim
 
T

Tim Clark

Oh, and as a follow up:

He Could have System Restore Turned Off!!
[OH, MY, GOD, WHY WOULD HE DO THAT!!! ;-) ]
in which case my posts would not be worth a puddle of warm spit :-(

Tim
 
B

Bill Sanderson

This issue (high cpu usage to the point of unusability by other
processes)--has come up periodically.

Is your system fully patch with regard to patches offered by AutoUpdate or
the express scan on Windows or Microsoft Update?

There have been several patches to fix this behavior.

Warren said:
This is definitely an installation delay. I'm notified that an update
exists
by windows update. I give permission for the update to be downloaded (but
not
installed) over a broadband (or T1) connection. Sometime later I give
permission for the update to be installed. At that time, the total
consumption of all CPU resources occurs and the length of time depends on
the
speed of the CPU. No other update of any other definition-type data
(Symantec, Spybot S&D, ...) or even updates of windows components or
installed programs is nearly so effective at pigging up the CPU as are the
Windows Defender updates. Even Adobe's updates behave better and they have
never played nice on Windows machines.

Tim Clark said:
Warren,

How do you normally update ?
[e.g. AU {WU/MU}, UI {Check for Updates}, Manual download {from Engels
link
or the Portal}

I usually download Engels Link and double click on the file. It takes
about
5 seconds Max for the update to install.

Perhaps the delay you are having has to do with the download itself and
not
install, are you using a modem?

Tim
--
If you set a Vista disk in the CD tray upside down,
you can hear SATANIC VOICES!
But that isn't the worst of it,
if you set it the right way IT INSTALLS VISTA!

:
Any Windows XP system that I have used (including ones with 3+GHz
processors
and 2+Gb memory) while a Windows Defender definition update is
installed is
always brought to a standstill while the update is installed. That's
not
nice. It's not appreciated, given how often a update is needed. It
makes me
want to do without defender. Is there any chance this beast can be
better
socialized?
 
Ad

Advertisements

E

Engel

Hi Warren,

Have a look here:

You receive an access violation error and the system may appear to become
unresponsive when you try to install an update from Windows Update or from
Microsoft Update

<http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=927891> for a complete fix.


I hope this post is helpful.

Let us know how it works ºut.

- -- --


FATE
There is no such thing as accident; it is fate misnamed.— Napoleon
 
W

Warren

Hi Tim,

I do think that it's the creation of the restore point that's causing the
slowdown I'm seeing. I tried a manual update (download & run) of this most
recent update and it went in quickly & quietly with no noticable slowdown.
The high usage during the AU installs takes between 5 & 10 seconds and I too
would not normally be doing much if anything during normal patch updates but
I figure a definition update should be benign enough to not matter in this
respect. I guess I'll follow your lead and figure out how to turn off the AU
installs since it does not make sense to me to be creating the restore point
for this minor system change.

Thanks again!

Tim Clark said:
Well,

One difference between your method of updating and mine is that using the AU
method causes the creation of a System Restore Point. So when you give
permission to install Two things are happening in Succession.

1. A System Restore Point is created [which I'm sure is using the CPU as
well as doing a lot of writing to the disk].
2. The Update itself is immediately applied after that.

My question for you is How Long does this take.
If it's a High CPU usage for 3-5 seconds I would not care.
If it's a High CPU usage for 20-30 seconds then I might care.

It could also be that I generally Don't Do Anything during an update of
Anything except allow the update to occur so I don't notice anything else
being affected.

Tim
--
If you set a Vista disk in the CD tray upside down,
you can hear SATANIC VOICES!
But that isn't the worst of it,
if you set it the right way IT INSTALLS VISTA!


Warren said:
This is definitely an installation delay. I'm notified that an update exists
by windows update. I give permission for the update to be downloaded (but not
installed) over a broadband (or T1) connection. Sometime later I give
permission for the update to be installed. At that time, the total
consumption of all CPU resources occurs and the length of time depends on the
speed of the CPU. No other update of any other definition-type data
(Symantec, Spybot S&D, ...) or even updates of windows components or
installed programs is nearly so effective at pigging up the CPU as are the
Windows Defender updates. Even Adobe's updates behave better and they have
never played nice on Windows machines.
 
Ad

Advertisements

W

Warren

The systems have all the latest patches.

Bill Sanderson said:
This issue (high cpu usage to the point of unusability by other
processes)--has come up periodically.

Is your system fully patch with regard to patches offered by AutoUpdate or
the express scan on Windows or Microsoft Update?

There have been several patches to fix this behavior.

Warren said:
This is definitely an installation delay. I'm notified that an update
exists
by windows update. I give permission for the update to be downloaded (but
not
installed) over a broadband (or T1) connection. Sometime later I give
permission for the update to be installed. At that time, the total
consumption of all CPU resources occurs and the length of time depends on
the
speed of the CPU. No other update of any other definition-type data
(Symantec, Spybot S&D, ...) or even updates of windows components or
installed programs is nearly so effective at pigging up the CPU as are the
Windows Defender updates. Even Adobe's updates behave better and they have
never played nice on Windows machines.

Tim Clark said:
Warren,

How do you normally update ?
[e.g. AU {WU/MU}, UI {Check for Updates}, Manual download {from Engels
link
or the Portal}

I usually download Engels Link and double click on the file. It takes
about
5 seconds Max for the update to install.

Perhaps the delay you are having has to do with the download itself and
not
install, are you using a modem?

Tim
--
If you set a Vista disk in the CD tray upside down,
you can hear SATANIC VOICES!
But that isn't the worst of it,
if you set it the right way IT INSTALLS VISTA!


:
Any Windows XP system that I have used (including ones with 3+GHz
processors
and 2+Gb memory) while a Windows Defender definition update is
installed is
always brought to a standstill while the update is installed. That's
not
nice. It's not appreciated, given how often a update is needed. It
makes me
want to do without defender. Is there any chance this beast can be
better
socialized?
 

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