F
Frank
Jim said:
I know?
I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that.
What brilliant insight!
Frank
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I know?
I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that.
What brilliant insight!
Frank
M
Mary
Mickey said:Sounds like a Canon. Large black is pigmented and for text. Smaller
blk is a dye based ink for photo printing.
I forgot to mention its Canon IP 4000. I thought the large black was for
text and the smaller one for photo printing, but wasn't sure. I also didn't
know which black was pigmented or dye based ink. The colour cartridges are
yellow, magenta and cyan. Would they be dye based?
Mary
M
Mickey
YesMary said:I forgot to mention its Canon IP 4000. I thought the large black was for
text and the smaller one for photo printing, but wasn't sure. I also didn't
know which black was pigmented or dye based ink. The colour cartridges are
yellow, magenta and cyan. Would they be dye based?
Mary
Mickey
M
Mary
OK, thank you and thanks to Art.
Mary
Mary
A
Arthur Entlich
OK, now that I know the printer model I can comment further.
Your printer has 5 cartridges. The large black one is for text and is
used exclusively for that purpose. That is a pigment ink
The other four cartridges are all dye ink and used for images. They are
Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and the smaller of the two Black (dye or photo type).
The reason for this is that pigment ink provides a sharper and denser
black with plain paper, and may even dry faster. It also is quite fade
resistant, and often is waterproof once dry.
However, this ink doesn't integrate well with the color dye inks. It
sits on the surface of the paper, while dye inks penetrate the paper
more. Since the characteristics differ between dye inks and a pigment
ink, and particularly black inks which have a lot of pigment in them,
they don't merge well and would look odd in an image. Therefore, for
anything involving colored inks, your printer will use the dye black ink
in that application, but continue to use the pigment black ink in text
only applications.
The nature of the head and dot size is often also different between dye
ink and pigment inks.
Art
Your printer has 5 cartridges. The large black one is for text and is
used exclusively for that purpose. That is a pigment ink
The other four cartridges are all dye ink and used for images. They are
Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and the smaller of the two Black (dye or photo type).
The reason for this is that pigment ink provides a sharper and denser
black with plain paper, and may even dry faster. It also is quite fade
resistant, and often is waterproof once dry.
However, this ink doesn't integrate well with the color dye inks. It
sits on the surface of the paper, while dye inks penetrate the paper
more. Since the characteristics differ between dye inks and a pigment
ink, and particularly black inks which have a lot of pigment in them,
they don't merge well and would look odd in an image. Therefore, for
anything involving colored inks, your printer will use the dye black ink
in that application, but continue to use the pigment black ink in text
only applications.
The nature of the head and dot size is often also different between dye
ink and pigment inks.
Art
A
Arthur Entlich
Yes, the CMY and smaller black are dye. The larger black is pigment.
Art
Art
M
Mary
Arthur Entlich said:Yes, the CMY and smaller black are dye. The larger black is pigment.
Thank you Art.
Mary
M
Mary
Arthur Entlich said:OK, now that I know the printer model I can comment further.
Your printer has 5 cartridges. The large black one is for text and is
used exclusively for that purpose. That is a pigment ink
The other four cartridges are all dye ink and used for images. They are
Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and the smaller of the two Black (dye or photo type).
The reason for this is that pigment ink provides a sharper and denser
black with plain paper, and may even dry faster. It also is quite fade
resistant, and often is waterproof once dry.
Does that mean the photos I sometimes print will fade after a while? how
long will they last before fading? I didn't put them in an album but keep
them together in a dark area in my closet. I have too many to put in an
album and some of them I have printed and sent to family members and
friends. I printed them on Kodak double sided, semi gloss paper and they
seem to look quite good. I mainly have printed indoor photos of people
mostly with flash rather than outside photos. Do indoor photos show fading
quicker than outside photos?
However, this ink doesn't integrate well with the color dye inks. It
sits on the surface of the paper, while dye inks penetrate the paper
more. Since the characteristics differ between dye inks and a pigment
ink, and particularly black inks which have a lot of pigment in them,
they don't merge well and would look odd in an image. Therefore, for
anything involving colored inks, your printer will use the dye black ink
in that application, but continue to use the pigment black ink in text
only applications.
The nature of the head and dot size is often also different between dye
ink and pigment inks.
I like the Canon IP 4000 printer. It prints nicely, but because it uses dye
inks, will it print indoor photos that will last for years?
Mary
B
Bob Headrick
Mary said:Does that mean the photos I sometimes print will fade after a while? how
long will they last before fading? I didn't put them in an album but keep
them together in a dark area in my closet. I have too many to put in an
album and some of them I have printed and sent to family members and
friends. I printed them on Kodak double sided, semi gloss paper and they
seem to look quite good. I mainly have printed indoor photos of people
mostly with flash rather than outside photos. Do indoor photos show fading
quicker than outside photos?
"Dark storage" fade is typically pretty long,even for poor fade inks,
although exposure to ozone is also a fade factor. Indoor or outdoor subjects
probably do not make much difference in fade resistance, but some colors
(for some ink sets) may fade faster than other colors. For more than you
would like to know see Henry Wilhelm's web pages at
http://www.wilhelm-research.com. The following may be a good start to see
some of the issues and tradeoffs:
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/PCWorld_FadeFactor_Nov_2002.pdf
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ist/WIR_IST_2007_03_HW.pdf
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/dpn/dpn.html
Wilhelm is a recognized expert in the area of print fading.
Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
M
Mary
Bob Headrick said:"Dark storage" fade is typically pretty long,even for poor fade inks,
although exposure to ozone is also a fade factor. Indoor or outdoor subjects
probably do not make much difference in fade resistance, but some colors
(for some ink sets) may fade faster than other colors. For more than you
would like to know see Henry Wilhelm's web pages at
http://www.wilhelm-research.com. The following may be a good start to see
some of the issues and tradeoffs:
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/pdf/PCWorld_FadeFactor_Nov_2002.pdf
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ist/WIR_IST_2007_03_HW.pdf
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/dpn/dpn.html
Wilhelm is a recognized expert in the area of print fading.
Thank you for your reply and the links Bob. I will check them out.
Mary
M
Mary
Art, I meant to say in my message I sent to you earlier today when I asked
about fading pics, that I use Staples compatible cartridges for all 5
cartridges.I have found the colour to be quite acceptable. They are not all
that much cheaper than OEM cartridges, but I can save a few dollars
especially if I have to buy 2 or 3 cartridges at a time which happens
occasionally if I've printed a lot of photos at a session. I go in binges
for photo printing and don't print any for a while. The photos I print are
mainly all taken indoors of people usually with flash.
Mary
about fading pics, that I use Staples compatible cartridges for all 5
cartridges.I have found the colour to be quite acceptable. They are not all
that much cheaper than OEM cartridges, but I can save a few dollars
especially if I have to buy 2 or 3 cartridges at a time which happens
occasionally if I've printed a lot of photos at a session. I go in binges
for photo printing and don't print any for a while. The photos I print are
mainly all taken indoors of people usually with flash.
Mary
A
Arthur Entlich
Hi Mary,
Dye inks, overall, are not as light stable as pigment inks. Canon has
been improving their dye ink longevity over the last several years. The
Canon OEM inks, while better than many 3rd party are still not shining
examples in the industry of long life fade-resistance.
This is not to suggest they will fade away indoors in dark keeping.
Fluorescent lamps, outdoor natural and halogen bulbs probably provide
the most fade-causing UV light. To protect your images, store them in a
relatively dry and pollution free area. Ground Ozone and other
pollutants including carbon monoxide (from the exhaust of cars) are
tough on dye ink prints.
Using a swellable polymer paper, if the results look good, will improve
the permanence of dye inks, but they are more vulnerable to fingerprints
and dampness.
Depending upon the ink set, Canon dye inks rate between about 2 years to
25 years. Most current Canon inkset are toward the mid high range.
Art
Dye inks, overall, are not as light stable as pigment inks. Canon has
been improving their dye ink longevity over the last several years. The
Canon OEM inks, while better than many 3rd party are still not shining
examples in the industry of long life fade-resistance.
This is not to suggest they will fade away indoors in dark keeping.
Fluorescent lamps, outdoor natural and halogen bulbs probably provide
the most fade-causing UV light. To protect your images, store them in a
relatively dry and pollution free area. Ground Ozone and other
pollutants including carbon monoxide (from the exhaust of cars) are
tough on dye ink prints.
Using a swellable polymer paper, if the results look good, will improve
the permanence of dye inks, but they are more vulnerable to fingerprints
and dampness.
Depending upon the ink set, Canon dye inks rate between about 2 years to
25 years. Most current Canon inkset are toward the mid high range.
Art
A
Arthur Entlich
Hi Mary,
I honestly have no opinion about Staples ink. I believe Staples bought
Korectype and with that, ended up with those inks being used in Staples
ink refill cartridges.
I am a believer in asking retailers and distributors to answer these
types of question from clients. I would ask them how you can find out
how fade resistance their inks are relative to OEM or whatever, they may
refer you to the company that actually does that filling?.
Art
I honestly have no opinion about Staples ink. I believe Staples bought
Korectype and with that, ended up with those inks being used in Staples
ink refill cartridges.
I am a believer in asking retailers and distributors to answer these
types of question from clients. I would ask them how you can find out
how fade resistance their inks are relative to OEM or whatever, they may
refer you to the company that actually does that filling?.
Art
M
measekite
Arthur said:Hi Mary,
I honestly have no opinion about Staples ink. I believe Staples
bought Korectype and with that, ended up with those inks being used in
Staples ink refill cartridges.
I am a believer in asking retailers and distributors to answer these
types of question from clients. I would ask them how you can find out
how fade resistance their inks are relative to OEM or whatever, they
may refer you to the company that actually does that filling?.
Now that is a bright answer. Ask a clerk that gets about the minimum
wage to answer that type of question when he can barely direct you to a
product that is on the shelf and has not been relocated since he was
hired. :-(
F
Frank
measekite said:Now that is a bright answer. Ask a clerk that gets about the minimum
wage to answer that type of question when he can barely direct you to a
product that is on the shelf and has not been relocated since he was
hired. :-(
heheheh...it's got to be much better answer than any answer from a
complete idiot like you!
Frank
J
Jim Robinson
Now that is a bright answer. Ask a clerk that gets about the minimum
wage to answer that type of question when he can barely direct you to
a product that is on the shelf and has not been relocated since he was
hired.
Art wasn't referring to your own work experience at Staples stocking
the shelves. But continue, we learn more and more about your failed
jobs. How hard can it be to stock a shelf! JR
M
Mary
Arthur Entlich said:Hi Mary,
Dye inks, overall, are not as light stable as pigment inks. Canon has
been improving their dye ink longevity over the last several years. The
Canon OEM inks, while better than many 3rd party are still not shining
examples in the industry of long life fade-resistance.
This is not to suggest they will fade away indoors in dark keeping.
Fluorescent lamps, outdoor natural and halogen bulbs probably provide
the most fade-causing UV light. To protect your images, store them in a
relatively dry and pollution free area. Ground Ozone and other
pollutants including carbon monoxide (from the exhaust of cars) are
tough on dye ink prints.
Using a swellable polymer paper, if the results look good, will improve
the permanence of dye inks, but they are more vulnerable to fingerprints
and dampness.
I usually use Kodak double sided semi gloss photo paper which seem to look
ok, though its just 7 ml it says on the front of the Kodak package.What
company makes swellable polymer paper? I find that Staples are the only
place near me in Toronto to buy photo paper and its quite expensive, and
they don't seem to have an awful lot of variety. Just basic. They don't even
have the double sided semi gloss I like, though they used to stock it but
now just have it in their catalog. I got some a couple of weeks ago in
Shoppers, though thats all they had in the way of photo paper. They don't
usually stock any. I like the semi gloss photo paper I have, but its become
hard to find, and I don't think its a regular item in Shoppers.
Depending upon the ink set, Canon dye inks rate between about 2 years to
25 years. Most current Canon inkset are toward the mid high range.
Would Staples compatible cartridges be similar?
Mary
M
Mary
Arthur Entlich said:Hi Mary,
I honestly have no opinion about Staples ink. I believe Staples bought
Korectype and with that, ended up with those inks being used in Staples
ink refill cartridges.
Is Korectype dye based and any good. I used Staples compatibles a lot with
my Canon IP 1500 which I stil use occasionally, and continued with Staples
when I got the IP 4000. Ordinary printing is fine, and photo printing seems
to be ok and like I said, I mostly print indoor photos with flas of family,
relatives, etc.not all that often, but when I do, I print quite a few photos
to send to them. I've always thought that digital cameras are much better
suited to sending jpgs in the mail, than printing stills though I like my
digital camera.
I am a believer in asking retailers and distributors to answer these
types of question from clients. I would ask them how you can find out
how fade resistance their inks are relative to OEM or whatever, they may
refer you to the company that actually does that filling?.
The only people I see when I go to Staples is the sales clerks, and they
wouldn't know anything about that. In fact, in the area of computers, I
usually know more than they do. And in the area of inks or photo paper they
wouldn't know. They don't get training about inks and I would doubt the
Manager would know.
Mary
R
Ray
For photo longevity Canon ink is better than any of the other brandsI usually use Kodak double sided semi gloss photo paper which seem to look
ok, though its just 7 ml it says on the front of the Kodak package.What
company makes swellable polymer paper? I find that Staples are the only
place near me in Toronto to buy photo paper and its quite expensive, and
they don't seem to have an awful lot of variety. Just basic. They don't even
have the double sided semi gloss I like, though they used to stock it but
now just have it in their catalog. I got some a couple of weeks ago in
Shoppers, though thats all they had in the way of photo paper. They don't
usually stock any. I like the semi gloss photo paper I have, but its become
hard to find, and I don't think its a regular item in Shoppers.
Would Staples compatible cartridges be similar?
Mary
that I have tested. I have not tested Staples, but I would be
surprised if it is as good as Canon.
A
Arthur Entlich
I have measekite filtered from my newsgroups, so I don't usually get to
read his nonsense unless it it gets quoted. I got tired of cutting him
to ribbons, so I guess he feels like he can make these snide comments
now that I don't see them or respond. I hope he's getting a lot of joy
from it. I'm just glad to be rid of the nuisance.
But since I saw this, I'll expand slightly on the matter. When I refer
to retailers I am not referring to nor expecting the sales clerks to
have the answers to these questions.
Retailers usually have email addresses and website and other methods of
requesting information regarding their products. This complexity might
be well beyond measekite's ability to comprehend, but for most people
reading here, I'm sure they fully understood that the information might
be beyond that of a sales clerk to answer.
Art
read his nonsense unless it it gets quoted. I got tired of cutting him
to ribbons, so I guess he feels like he can make these snide comments
now that I don't see them or respond. I hope he's getting a lot of joy
from it. I'm just glad to be rid of the nuisance.
But since I saw this, I'll expand slightly on the matter. When I refer
to retailers I am not referring to nor expecting the sales clerks to
have the answers to these questions.
Retailers usually have email addresses and website and other methods of
requesting information regarding their products. This complexity might
be well beyond measekite's ability to comprehend, but for most people
reading here, I'm sure they fully understood that the information might
be beyond that of a sales clerk to answer.
Art
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