What on earth is the complot against USB Hubs?

[~~~ .NET Ed ~~~]

Yes, I was wondering that. Throughout the life of USB it has been hailed as
the king of serial protocols, the cure for cancer and God knows what.

But the truth is, USB is far from fool proof. I have seen USB keyboards that
do not ge initialized on system boot and leave the PC almost totally useless
because the user can do any keyboard input. That is why I still use a PS/2
keyboard, after all the port is there and leaves an USB port free.

I have also seen USB mice (such as the one in my parent's brand new dual
core Acer PC) that always fails to initialize upon boot (even with the
updates) and leaves the user to have to manually unplug and re-plug the
mouse on every boot opearation. Very annoying and user unfriendly. That is
why I still use a PS/2 mouse, the port is also there.

So then everything else comes in USB flavour, the all-in-one printer
(problems included), the dongles, etc.

But I digress, this post is because if USB Hubs are supposed to be
extensions to the bus that do not adversely affect your system, then why on
earth many of the USB device problems appears to be because it is connected
to a USB Hub rather than directly to the USB port(s) on the computer?

That is right, the USB Hub thing is a big lie. I have two particular
devices: an HP PSC1610 all-in-one and a CH Products pedals and flight sim
yoke. These devices only work well when connected to the USB port on the PC
but if you connect it to any hub they work well and then suddenly they don't
and exhibit weird behaviour.

Then there is the support department that always advices "You should not
connect the device to a HUB but rather do it directly to an (un)available
USB port on your PC."

Why don't all parties just work on the problem together and figure out once
and for all why the USB Hubs never behave as they SHOULD? It seems to me as
it is always a workaround rather than fixing the root of the issue.

 

[kirk jim]

hubs have internal circuits... I guess they do something more than simply
extending your
usb cable

There are some cheapo USB pci cards ($15) that give you 4+1 USB2 ports (4
external and 1 internal).
This is what I ALWAYS advise people to get, instead of hubs.. for many
reasons..

one of them is speed. Getting a hub is the LAST resort and you should not
expect too much from it.

 

[Val]

Mine behave just fine.

I've used several hubs on several computers with perfect success. Printer,
scanners, three different digical cameras, iPod, PalmPilot, flash drives,
external hard drives, external DVD-RW.

Considering the bazillion possible hardware and software onfigurations,
someone somewhere is bound to have problems some times. You just drew the
short straw?

Val

 

[pop]

But that's not a good solution for external hard drive. The PCI USB
port(s) is limited to the PCI bus speed and it is very hurtful.

Pop

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Mine behave just fine.

I've used several hubs on several computers with perfect success. Printer,
scanners, three different digical cameras, iPod, PalmPilot, flash drives,
external hard drives, external DVD-RW.

Considering the bazillion possible hardware and software onfigurations,
someone somewhere is bound to have problems some times. You just drew the
short straw?

I've had a lot of trouble with cheap hubs. The good ones haven't
given me any trouble.

 

[smlunatick]

Yes, I was wondering that. Throughout the life of USB it has been hailed as
the king of serial protocols, the cure for cancer and God knows what.

But the truth is, USB is far from fool proof. I have seen USB keyboards that
do not ge initialized on system boot and leave the PC almost totally useless
because the user can do any keyboard input. That is why I still use a PS/2
keyboard, after all the port is there and leaves an USB port free.

I have also seen USB mice (such as the one in my parent's brand new dual
core Acer PC) that always fails to initialize upon boot (even with the
updates) and leaves the user to have to manually unplug and re-plug the
mouse on every boot opearation. Very annoying and user unfriendly. That is
why I still use a PS/2 mouse, the port is also there.

So then everything else comes in USB flavour, the all-in-one printer
(problems included), the dongles, etc.

But I digress, this post is because if USB Hubs are supposed to be
extensions to the bus that do not adversely affect your system, then why on
earth many of the USB device problems appears to be because it is connected
to a USB Hub rather than directly to the USB port(s) on the computer?

That is right, the USB Hub thing is a big lie. I have two particular
devices: an HP PSC1610 all-in-one and a CH Products pedals and flight sim
yoke. These devices only work well when connected to the USB port on the PC
but if you connect it to any hub they work well and then suddenly they don't
and exhibit weird behaviour.

Then there is the support department that always advices "You should not
connect the device to a HUB but rather do it directly to an (un)available
USB port on your PC."

Why don't all parties just work on the problem together and figure out once
and for all why the USB Hubs never behave as they SHOULD? It seems to me as
it is always a workaround rather than fixing the root of the issue.

I have greater success with powered hubs than with USB-powered hubs.
It seems that USB devices are becoming "power hungry" and the PC's
base USB ports/root hubs can not provide enough power over the USB
cable. I have seen that especially with USB flash drives, card
readers and hard drive. I even saw these "power" problems with USB
devices that have their own power adapter. Hell, I even seen USB
devices which the manufacturer "broke" the USB 2.0 rule (compatibilty
with USB 1.1) and the USB unique device serial number rule (I have two
different USB card readers with the same USB serial number.)

In general, USB is a good interface. It's the device manufacturers
that mess it by "cutting corners!"

 

[C.Joseph Drayton]

I have greater success with powered hubs than with USB-powered hubs.
It seems that USB devices are becoming "power hungry" and the PC's
base USB ports/root hubs can not provide enough power over the USB
cable. I have seen that especially with USB flash drives, card
readers and hard drive. I even saw these "power" problems with USB
devices that have their own power adapter. Hell, I even seen USB
devices which the manufacturer "broke" the USB 2.0 rule (compatibilty
with USB 1.1) and the USB unique device serial number rule (I have two
different USB card readers with the same USB serial number.)

In general, USB is a good interface. It's the device manufacturers
that mess it by "cutting corners!"

I have to agree. Every time I've seen problems with people plugging
devices into a hub and it not working, it was because one or more of
the devices needed power. That is the part that confuses people,
sometimes the device will work and other times it won't. What is
happening is that a device on the hub may not need power off the hub
at the moment and the second device works. Then device one needs
power and device two stops working. I tell people if you must use a
hub, make sure to connect its power supply even if you 'think' none
of the devices should need power. These days, it is hard to tell
what devices need power and which ones don't.

Ciao . . . C.Joseph

"When hope is lost . . . the spirit dies."
-- Lao Tzu

http://blog.tlerma.com/

 

[kirk jim]

what are you talking about.. the pci bus is extreamly fast compared to usb2

there are scsci hard drive controllers that are pci