WGA now compulsory for getting Windows updates ???

[Chris]

Have MS now made installation of WGA compulsory, if you want to use the
Windows Update web site?

I just tried the update site and got the following message.

(Oh, and yes, my copy of XP is 100% legal. I just previously declined to
install all the WGA stuff)

------------
Software Upgrade for Some Windows Components Required

To use Microsoft Update, you must first install the latest version of
some Windows components. This will allow your computer to work with these
new features on the site:

Details

Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130)
1.1 MB , less than 1 minute
The Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool enables you to verify that
your copy of Microsoft Windows is genuine. The tool validates your
Windows installation by checking Windows Product Identification and
Product Activation status.
---------

 

[Alias]

Have MS now made installation of WGA compulsory, if you want to use the
Windows Update web site?

I just tried the update site and got the following message.

(Oh, and yes, my copy of XP is 100% legal. I just previously declined to
install all the WGA stuff)

------------
Software Upgrade for Some Windows Components Required

To use Microsoft Update, you must first install the latest version of
some Windows components. This will allow your computer to work with these
new features on the site:

Details

Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130)
1.1 MB , less than 1 minute
The Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool enables you to verify that
your copy of Microsoft Windows is genuine. The tool validates your
Windows installation by checking Windows Product Identification and
Product Activation status.

Seems as though MS is bound and determined to WGA itself out of
business. I plan to use Auto Update this weekend for the updates as I
refuse to install WGA or any of its flavors.

The ironic thing is that this is of no benefit to the end user at all
and just serves to make customers angry at being forced to prove that
one is not a pirate.

Alias

 

[Doug]

No cause for alarm...live with it. It ain't gonna bite your arse
unless you have a pirated copy of Winders.
-
Doug W.
-

 

[Maincat]

Seems as though MS is bound and determined to WGA itself out of business.
I plan to use Auto Update this weekend for the updates as I refuse to
install WGA or any of its flavors.

The ironic thing is that this is of no benefit to the end user at all and
just serves to make customers angry at being forced to prove that one is
not a pirate.

Alias

Really, I'm not trying to be funny, but I don't see what the problem is.
It's in all our interests to get rid of piracy, isn't it? So I download
WGA, so what? I get the updates. Please sincerely convince me of the
problem.

 

[Filthy McNasty]

Using at least one appendage, the entity known in this space-time continuum

Really, I'm not trying to be funny, but I don't see what the problem is.
It's in all our interests to get rid of piracy, isn't it? So I download
WGA, so what? I get the updates. Please sincerely convince me of the
problem.

The problem is the sheer impertinence. If activation is not worth a damn,
why do we have to activate? And having done so, can they not just refer
back to their activation database - not much point activating unless there
is one? And yes, I do realise that a large part - the only part? - of
activation is hardware related. Can't have us loading XP onto all the
household/office computers. Fair enough. But surely all they have to do is
check with the disk-based activation files, the .DBL ones? If they don't
match a M$ database, THEN insist on WGA. Otherwise do us the courtesy of
trusting us

 

[Maincat]

Using at least one appendage, the entity known in this space-time
continuum


The problem is the sheer impertinence. If activation is not worth a damn,
why do we have to activate? And having done so, can they not just refer
back to their activation database - not much point activating unless there
is one? And yes, I do realise that a large part - the only part? - of
activation is hardware related. Can't have us loading XP onto all the
household/office computers. Fair enough. But surely all they have to do is
check with the disk-based activation files, the .DBL ones? If they don't
match a M$ database, THEN insist on WGA. Otherwise do us the courtesy of
trusting us

OK, I'm getting closer to understanding this. Some thoughts.

I don't know of a money making company that trusts it's customers. Banks
don't, stores don't and the list goes on. If they did, all the cameras
would go for a start. Trust is a commodity in very short supply in our
society. I wish it was different, but it isn't.

Activation - I've never been sure about Activation. Don't think MS thought
that one through. MS aren't the only ones to verify software usage by
online methods - my Internet Security does the same for example.

Finally, I guess an answer to this is to go open source. No Activation, WGA
or other methods since there's no need - different philosophy at play. I
guess that until market share takes a really big hit, MS will continue to
employ these methods.

Sorry if this post rambles a bit - thinking with my fingers!

 

[Tom Willett]

Tell that to the many folks who have posted here the past few years that
have legitimate copies of windows and get false notifications. They have to
jump through hoops.

| No cause for alarm...live with it. It ain't gonna bite your arse
| unless you have a pirated copy of Winders.
| -
| Doug W.
| -
|

 

[nl]

OK, I'm getting closer to understanding this. Some thoughts.

I don't know of a money making company that trusts it's customers. Banks
don't, stores don't and the list goes on. If they did, all the cameras
would go for a start. Trust is a commodity in very short supply in our
society. I wish it was different, but it isn't.

Activation - I've never been sure about Activation. Don't think MS thought
that one through. MS aren't the only ones to verify software usage by
online methods - my Internet Security does the same for example.

Finally, I guess an answer to this is to go open source. No Activation, WGA
or other methods since there's no need - different philosophy at play. I
guess that until market share takes a really big hit, MS will continue to
employ these methods.

Sorry if this post rambles a bit - thinking with my fingers!

I have a theory about this. I think there's a huge department at MS
dedicated to 'revenue protection' and they justify their existence by
maximisng the revenue from XP activations. As long as it looks like
they make more money hassling punters with WGA than it costs to run
the department (with its canteen and its gym and its carpark full of
Mercs and BMWs) they will go on and on and on and every time we want
to switch the bloody machine on we will be asked to verify the
installation YET AGAIN. Every single patch for the last few months
has come with WGA asking if this is a legit copy of Windows. YES IT
SODDING IS I TOLD YOU THAT YESTERDAY AND YOU STILL HAD TO CHECK FOR
YOURSELF AND NOW YOU'RE ASKING ME AGAIN.

And of course legit customers get more and more pissed off and
irritated because people with cracked versions don't get this grief.
It's like the copyright warnings on DVD you can't skip - the only
people who don't have to sit through the boilerplate and the threats
and hectoring and lecturing and fingerwagging are THE BLOODY PIRATES.

phew. Sorry, rant over.

 

[kenkcj]

Its my turn to give my humble opinion on WGA. First off in reponse to the
activation point. Sure, they have an option to automatically activate over
the internet, but they also have the option to "call microsoft" to get a
verification code giving an installation ID for all of that. I can guarantee
you that pirates out there have verification code generators based off their
installation ID just like they have for many many games out there and
various other software. So the activation method is completely pointless and
only goes as far to lock down the computer for people who don't want to
activate or pirates who can't figure out how to download one of these.
Further, the "hacked keys" often still pass through the activation over the
internet method anyways. Microsoft is realizing the issue and not letting
pirates continue getting security updates and leaving their computers
vulnerable to attack, which they have every right to do.
On the other point of complaining about it. Honestly its a minute download
at worst, with 3 clicks. How hard is it to go through before checking for
further updates? Personally I would rather have it be a little bit longer so
that I could get up and go get a drink while waiting... Anyways, thats just
my 2 cents.

 

[frodo]

Hold on folks, this is nothing new: all that they did was make a new
version of the genuine checker (legitcheckcontrol.dll), and WU wants to
update that before it will proceed. They've done that DOZENS of times in
the past. This DLL is not the same as the WGA _NOTIFICATION_ beast, which
is still offered when you do a CUSTOM update, and you can still uncheck
that so you don't have to get it (if you do an EXPRESS or AUTOMATIC update
you will get it, just as before, since it's considered "critical").

NOTHING HAS CHANGED, just the dll's version number.

 

[Filthy McNasty]

Using at least one appendage, the entity known in this space-time continuum

So the activation method is completely pointless and
only goes as far to lock down the computer for people who don't want to
activate or pirates

But still, sorry no quote included, another poster comments "I passed WGA
yesterday. Why keep asking"

So why keep asking? You've activated, legitimately or not; You've passed
WGA at least once. Why keep asking? They must be capable of keeping your
voluntarily (!) disclosed details, surely. And I paid for my XPPro. They
also have an accounts department with this info

 

[Ghostrider]

Using at least one appendage, the entity known in this space-time continuum
as "kenkcj" <[email protected]> revealed in [email protected]:




But still, sorry no quote included, another poster comments "I passed WGA
yesterday. Why keep asking"

So why keep asking? You've activated, legitimately or not; You've passed
WGA at least once. Why keep asking? They must be capable of keeping your
voluntarily (!) disclosed details, surely. And I paid for my XPPro. They
also have an accounts department with this info

Consider the sheer number of Windows XP that has been sold and that
there are not enough key digits in the generated ProductID to identify
each installation discretely, the answer is that MS is unable to keep
the validation information beyond a set time frame. This time frame
seems to be 120 days, which corresponds to all of the combinations of
the key digits in the ProductID that is used for activation/validation,
even allowing for a Product Key/ProductID resultant to be used several
times, beyond which even legitimate Product Keys are improperly identifed
as invalid. You paid for your XP Pro and the lottery says that you need
to pay for more.

 

[John John]

Consider the sheer number of Windows XP that has been sold and that
there are not enough key digits in the generated ProductID to identify
each installation discretely, the answer is that MS is unable to keep
the validation information beyond a set time frame. This time frame
seems to be 120 days, which corresponds to all of the combinations of
the key digits in the ProductID that is used for activation/validation,
even allowing for a Product Key/ProductID resultant to be used several
times, beyond which even legitimate Product Keys are improperly identifed
as invalid. You paid for your XP Pro and the lottery says that you need
to pay for more.

Man, math and permutations were not your strengths in school! The
product ID number is 25 alpha-numeric digits, the permutations are
astronomical! There are enough numbers for every insect on the planet
to have one!

John

 

[][ce]

NOTHING HAS CHANGED, just the dll's version number.

Ahh. That explains why Windows Update made me download
it for the second time yesterday. Thanks for the info.

=Ytrx=

 

[Alias]

No cause for alarm...live with it. It ain't gonna bite your arse unless
you have a pirated copy of Winders.
-
Doug W.

Not true. Many people who have legit copies of Windows have had their
copies deemed pirated by this wonderful program. There are even MS web
site dedicated to providing technical hoops to jump through to fix the
false positives.

So, I am NOT going to "live with it". I will use Auto Updates and
continue to learn Ubuntu Linux.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Really, I'm not trying to be funny, but I don't see what the problem is.
It's in all our interests to get rid of piracy, isn't it? So I download
WGA, so what? I get the updates. Please sincerely convince me of the
problem.

False positives that lead paying customers to jump through hoops to have
their paid for copy of XP deemed legit. MS knows there will false
positives because they have web sites with registry editing tools to
straighten out the glitches. Some people buy computers to play around
with technical hoops. Most, however, want to use their computers for
something else besides proving, over and over again, that they bought
the license.

Alias

 

[Alias]

OK, I'm getting closer to understanding this. Some thoughts.

I don't know of a money making company that trusts it's customers. Banks
don't, stores don't and the list goes on. If they did, all the cameras
would go for a start. Trust is a commodity in very short supply in our
society. I wish it was different, but it isn't.

Activation - I've never been sure about Activation. Don't think MS thought
that one through. MS aren't the only ones to verify software usage by
online methods - my Internet Security does the same for example.

Finally, I guess an answer to this is to go open source. No Activation, WGA
or other methods since there's no need - different philosophy at play. I
guess that until market share takes a really big hit, MS will continue to
employ these methods.

Sorry if this post rambles a bit - thinking with my fingers!

Most people are honest. Proof of this are the billions that MS made off
of Win 3.0 up through Win Me. Now they're getting greedy and showing
complete disdain for their paying customers. This cannot bode well for MS.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Hold on folks, this is nothing new: all that they did was make a new
version of the genuine checker (legitcheckcontrol.dll), and WU wants to
update that before it will proceed. They've done that DOZENS of times in
the past. This DLL is not the same as the WGA _NOTIFICATION_ beast, which
is still offered when you do a CUSTOM update, and you can still uncheck
that so you don't have to get it (if you do an EXPRESS or AUTOMATIC update
you will get it, just as before, since it's considered "critical").

NOTHING HAS CHANGED, just the dll's version number.

Considering I just reinstalled XP on one computer, I have no WGA on it
and don't have any plans to put it on it either.

Alias

 

[Ghostrider]

Man, math and permutations were not your strengths in school! The
product ID number is 25 alpha-numeric digits, the permutations are
astronomical! There are enough numbers for every insect on the planet
to have one!

John

The problem is that not all 25 digits are used in confirming the validity
of the product. There are only 7 numbers of the 25-number ProductID that
are used. And of these 7 spaces, they need to generate a specific value
after being summed and divided by a key. A much smaller total.

 

[antioch]

No cause for alarm...live with it. It ain't gonna bite your arse unless
you have a pirated copy of Winders.
-
Doug W.
-

Didnt MS promise that not choosing to have WGA etc on your computer would
not bar you from getting the critical/security updates? - but you would not
be offered other updates - I have at least 20 of these others, none of which
apply to my system, hidden away in the Hide Folder.
It would appear that there are some who cannot get this months criticals
without first downloading WGA VT - and it comes disguised as something
completely different?
Rgds
Antioch