WGA Ain't So Bad

[Alias]

To bad, I was hoping you might see the problem with your stance and that
you might learn something about your computer. I expected you to go to
this point based on what I was reading in your posts.

Feel free to reply to me any time you want, I don't hold grudges in
Usenet or kill file anyone.

Hey, Rhonda, I think Leythos likes you ;-)

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Leythos wrote:
Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:
But we've been hearing stories about donated computers and single
mothers and handicapped users and so on, ad nauseum, and that's not
great for PR, most especially since it does not get to the root of
the problem, i.e., the actual software pirates.
What a load of crap - you want people that are using stolen software
to be permitted to use it, because "they didn't know it was stolen".
You've changed my meaning when you resorted to "argument by snipping."
WTF?

What I said, in the context of WGA being a PR disaster, is:

[restore]

Generally speaking, causing people who are knowingly using pirated
software to pay for their software is a good thing. Generally speaking.

But we've been hearing stories about donated computers and single
mothers and handicapped users and so on, ad nauseum, and that's not
great for PR, most especially since it does not get to the root of the
problem, i.e., the actual software pirates. It's like trying to win the
drug wars by putting casual pot smokers in jail for a long time.

No I didn't change your meaning - I specifically addressed what you seem
to suggest is something we should accept from pirates. I don't care if
poor starving children in Uganda are unable to use their computers
because of a nag box showing up on their screen, it's not Microsoft's
fault, it's the pirates fault and the ignorance of the purchaser/owner
that cause the problem.

By your posting that tid-bit, you appear to indicate that I should feel
that MS is screwing those users, and I don't. While I fee sorry for
their ignorance, as with anyone that gets screwed, it's a life lesson
and a mistake they are unlikely to make again.

Oh, and causing people how are knowingly using pirated software to pay
for their software IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING.

And the fact that XP is, aside from a TFT monitor, usually the most
expensive thing you buy for a computer is also a "good thing", right?

I don't know where you are buying XP, but I pay $140 for XP Prof OEM,
the motherboard on a typical sytem runs about $150, RAM costs about
$150, Video card costs about $150 and up (around $250 for a quality
gamer card), drives are cheap unless I go SCSI, sound is cheap, Monitor
is about $500 for a good LCD or $350 for a good CRT (although there are
cheaper units if one wants), case and PSU run about $100, keyboard/mouse
about $35 total.

The $100 laptops for Africa and other poor countries will run Linux. I
guess old Bill wasn't in a philanthropist mood when he was asked.

I run Linux here too, Fedora Core 5 mostly, and would love to move
clients to it for security reasons, but we've never been able to justify
the migration costs (ROI over the first year) due to all the things that
are impacted.

My own kids actually run due machines, each has two, and play games and
do homework on their Windows machines, and surf/email on their Linux
machines.

Windows has 95% of the market. I wonder what percentage they have in the
under 20 demographic. Ya know, the future?

Based on what I see from the Frats/Sororities, the same. We've done the
Frat/Sor for a couple years at a major campus, and I've not seen a
single Linux machine in any house, 2 MAC's in all that time, the rest
were Windows XP and Windows 2000.

 

[Leythos]

Did you block the calling home feature with your firewall or do you run
the XP firewall and it merrily uses your bandwidth on your dime?

I have a firewall appliance, and I watched it and the computer as I
booted, I didn't block it, it ran in the task manager at 9 MB RAM, 0%
load the entire couple minutes it ran when I started the computer, it is
not running right now and I don't see anything in the process lists
about it.

I don't use Windows firewall on this computer, and I don't use a third
party firewall enabled on this computer either - Windows firewall
service is set to disabled. When I'm at clients locations I enable Tiny
to block inbound connections.

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

How does it benefit me for WGA to load and phone home at each and every
startup?

I've got it installed on my system, and it's invisible. INVISIBLE. No
"phone home" at all.

Generally speaking, causing people who are knowingly using pirated
software to pay for their software is a good thing. Generally speaking.

Generally speaking? It's ALWAYS a good thing.

But we've been hearing stories about donated computers and single
mothers and handicapped users and so on, ad nauseum, and that's not
great for PR,

Boo freaking hoo.

 

[Alias]

Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:
But we've been hearing stories about donated computers and single
mothers and handicapped users and so on, ad nauseum, and that's not
great for PR, most especially since it does not get to the root of
the problem, i.e., the actual software pirates.
What a load of crap - you want people that are using stolen software
to be permitted to use it, because "they didn't know it was stolen".
You've changed my meaning when you resorted to "argument by snipping."
WTF?

What I said, in the context of WGA being a PR disaster, is:

[restore]

Generally speaking, causing people who are knowingly using pirated
software to pay for their software is a good thing. Generally speaking.

But we've been hearing stories about donated computers and single
mothers and handicapped users and so on, ad nauseum, and that's not
great for PR, most especially since it does not get to the root of the
problem, i.e., the actual software pirates. It's like trying to win the
drug wars by putting casual pot smokers in jail for a long time.
No I didn't change your meaning - I specifically addressed what you seem
to suggest is something we should accept from pirates. I don't care if
poor starving children in Uganda are unable to use their computers
because of a nag box showing up on their screen, it's not Microsoft's
fault, it's the pirates fault and the ignorance of the purchaser/owner
that cause the problem.

By your posting that tid-bit, you appear to indicate that I should feel
that MS is screwing those users, and I don't. While I fee sorry for
their ignorance, as with anyone that gets screwed, it's a life lesson
and a mistake they are unlikely to make again.

Oh, and causing people how are knowingly using pirated software to pay
for their software IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING.

And the fact that XP is, aside from a TFT monitor, usually the most
expensive thing you buy for a computer is also a "good thing", right?

I don't know where you are buying XP, but I pay $140 for XP Prof OEM,
the motherboard on a typical sytem runs about $150, RAM costs about
$150, Video card costs about $150 and up (around $250 for a quality
gamer card), drives are cheap unless I go SCSI, sound is cheap, Monitor
is about $500 for a good LCD or $350 for a good CRT (although there are
cheaper units if one wants), case and PSU run about $100, keyboard/mouse
about $35 total.

Wow, you pay a lot for your computers. I did a configuration for a AMD
64 3000, $85, 1 gig of memory, $90, 256 MB nVidia card, $50,
Soundblaster Audigy, $30, DVD burner, $50, Asrock MB, $65, Case, $35,
Floppy, $10, 17" CRT monitor, $100, etc. As the MB comes with sound, lan
and vga, if you don't buy a video card or sound card, it would be even
cheaper.

Now, if you want to go high end, yes, XP is cheaper than many of the parts.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Leythos wrote:
Rhonda Lea Kirk wrote:
But we've been hearing stories about donated computers and single
mothers and handicapped users and so on, ad nauseum, and that's not
great for PR, most especially since it does not get to the root of
the problem, i.e., the actual software pirates.
What a load of crap - you want people that are using stolen software
to be permitted to use it, because "they didn't know it was stolen".
You've changed my meaning when you resorted to "argument by snipping."
WTF?

What I said, in the context of WGA being a PR disaster, is:

[restore]

Generally speaking, causing people who are knowingly using pirated
software to pay for their software is a good thing. Generally speaking.

But we've been hearing stories about donated computers and single
mothers and handicapped users and so on, ad nauseum, and that's not
great for PR, most especially since it does not get to the root of the
problem, i.e., the actual software pirates. It's like trying to win the
drug wars by putting casual pot smokers in jail for a long time.
No I didn't change your meaning - I specifically addressed what you seem
to suggest is something we should accept from pirates. I don't care if
poor starving children in Uganda are unable to use their computers
because of a nag box showing up on their screen, it's not Microsoft's
fault, it's the pirates fault and the ignorance of the purchaser/owner
that cause the problem.

By your posting that tid-bit, you appear to indicate that I should feel
that MS is screwing those users, and I don't. While I fee sorry for
their ignorance, as with anyone that gets screwed, it's a life lesson
and a mistake they are unlikely to make again.

Oh, and causing people how are knowingly using pirated software to pay
for their software IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING.

And the fact that XP is, aside from a TFT monitor, usually the most
expensive thing you buy for a computer is also a "good thing", right?

I don't know where you are buying XP, but I pay $140 for XP Prof OEM,
the motherboard on a typical sytem runs about $150, RAM costs about
$150, Video card costs about $150 and up (around $250 for a quality
gamer card), drives are cheap unless I go SCSI, sound is cheap, Monitor
is about $500 for a good LCD or $350 for a good CRT (although there are
cheaper units if one wants), case and PSU run about $100, keyboard/mouse
about $35 total.

Wow, you pay a lot for your computers. I did a configuration for a AMD
64 3000, $85, 1 gig of memory, $90, 256 MB nVidia card, $50,
Soundblaster Audigy, $30, DVD burner, $50, Asrock MB, $65, Case, $35,
Floppy, $10, 17" CRT monitor, $100, etc. As the MB comes with sound, lan
and vga, if you don't buy a video card or sound card, it would be even
cheaper.

Now, if you want to go high end, yes, XP is cheaper than many of the parts.

Yea, I could spec out cheap machines, but I don't go that route for most
solutions. When I want cheap, I purchase Neoware Win CE machines and use
Terminal Server for the users, a cheap CE machine (does remote desktop)
runs about $375 without monitor.

1 GB DDR2, NON-ECC, Unbuffered, PC2-3200 runs about $120, in a 2 x 512MB
kit.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Hey, Rhonda, I think Leythos likes you ;-)

This is just sad, Alias.

I'll argue with anyone about anything. I've even been known to flip for
the argument, because sometimes you can learn more arguing the side you
disagree with--you see more of the nuances that way.

Sometimes, I'll even argue with myself which is what I've had to do
on this subject, since I'm not getting any good arguments from the
opposition.

I can now make much better arguments for WGA than any I've seen
here--but I won't, because even though there are a few arguments to be
made, they're generally weak ones.

What I also won't do is argue with someone who adheres to the precept
that if you can't win, you should obfuscate the issue(s) or ascribe
false motivation to your adversary, i.e., that you should resort to
sophistry and fallacious reasoning. If I see someone doing that, and it
looks unintentional, I don't get angry. But when it appears
purposeful...well, I don't get angry then either. But there are a lot of
people in the world to know, and I prefer to save my time for those who
will be intellectually honest with me.

IOW, I have all too many people in my life who know how to carry on an
honest debate (for example, I'd argue with you about anything, any time)
to be bothered with those who don't.

Did I mention that it's sad?

But at least he's not rotting in the kf with CF.

rl
--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff

 

[Jeff]

Rhonda,
Hey, Don't bail now please. It's just starting to get fun. LOL But
seriously;some people couldn't see the forest through the MS trees!!LOL
Jeff

 

[Alias]

This is just sad, Alias.

I'll argue with anyone about anything. I've even been known to flip for
the argument, because sometimes you can learn more arguing the side you
disagree with--you see more of the nuances that way.

Sometimes, I'll even argue with myself which is what I've had to do
on this subject, since I'm not getting any good arguments from the
opposition.

I can now make much better arguments for WGA than any I've seen
here--but I won't, because even though there are a few arguments to be
made, they're generally weak ones.

What I also won't do is argue with someone who adheres to the precept
that if you can't win, you should obfuscate the issue(s) or ascribe
false motivation to your adversary, i.e., that you should resort to
sophistry and fallacious reasoning. If I see someone doing that, and it
looks unintentional, I don't get angry. But when it appears
purposeful...well, I don't get angry then either. But there are a lot of
people in the world to know, and I prefer to save my time for those who
will be intellectually honest with me.

IOW, I have all too many people in my life who know how to carry on an
honest debate (for example, I'd argue with you about anything, any time)
to be bothered with those who don't.

Did I mention that it's sad?

But at least he's not rotting in the kf with CF.

rl

Seems CF has a special mission on that "other board".

Alias

 

[Leythos]

As a follow-up to the installation of WGA and getting updates without
WGA Notification being installed.

I had one update before installing WGA Notifications, installed it, then
installed WGAN, rebooted, WGAN ran and runs each time I reboot. I can't
detect any performance issues and there is no increase in boot time that
I can detect.

I watched WGAN contact MS each time I booted, then I renamed the 4
instances of files with the name WGATRAY, and rebooted, then watched the
processes and firewall.

As best I can see, WGATray (notification) does not run (after three
reboots) and does not phone home any longer.

So, it would seem that while WGA is needed if you want faster updates or
manual updates, but WGAN is not needed at all.

L.

 

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Rhonda,
Hey, Don't bail now please. It's just starting to get fun. LOL But
seriously;some people couldn't see the forest through the MS
trees!!LOL Jeff

I'm not bailing, exactly. I just wrote an essay to Uncle Grumpy, but
this thread has made my eyes cross, and now I have a headache, and when
I proofread it, it made absolutely no sense.

That means it's time for dinner. And a walk. And a lot of Advil.

<Scarlett> I'll think about it tomorrow.</Scarlett>

More seriously, how many times can we keep saying the same thing, over
and over and over again? It's not like it's going to change.

It's still spyware.



--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Insisting on perfect safety is for people
without the balls to live in the real world.
Mary Shafer Iliff

 

[Leythos]

It's still spyware.

And those kids that are part of the special Olympics are precious too.

 

[Jeff]

yes, it is spyware, we know that. like i have said and so have you-some ppl
wear blinders I guess-MS bots as it were lol-night
Jeff

 

[Jeff]

now now Leythos;cheap shot
Jeff

And those kids that are part of the special Olympics are precious too.

 

[Leythos]

now now Leythos;cheap shot

I figured it was "in kind".

 

[Steve N.]

If you want to worry about something intrusive, read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/02/washington/02records.html

Next they'll be wanting to read our faxes, snail-mail,
inter-departmental correspondences, office memos, and post-its stuck on
our monitors.

Keep your nose clean and cover your tracks.

All forms of government are the antithesis to personal freedom.

Freedom is not a priveledge or a right, it's a choice and a way of life.

Steve N.

 

[Jeff]

Would you care to explain your statement "in kind"?
Were you offended by discourse this evening Leythos?
Jeff

 

[Leythos]

Would you care to explain your statement "in kind"?
Were you offended by discourse this evening Leythos?

I don't think I've ever been offended by anything posted in Usenet, not
in more than 20 years of using Usenet.

I just took one of her jabs at what I assumed was me and figured that's
the way she wanted to go with it. I don't normally do that, but, if
figured with all those explanations in a couple posts, as to why she
doesn't talk with "some" types of people, that I would throw one back to
solidify that for her

 

[Jeff]

Well,
Just for 1 quick second;I thought you were thin skinned!! LOL
Good night
Jeff

 

[Scott]

When everybody by a huge majority says WGA is spyware and only Lethos
upholds the unsupportable premis that it isn't with mile long,
unending diatribes 24 hrs a day for weeks on end....you have to wonder
as to his 'state of mind' I would say.

The word "lettuce" is derived from the Greek term "lethos," which
literally means, "straight leaf of cabbage". Even the etymological
roots of the word point to the necessity of uniform crispness. LOL!