Weird NTBackup Problem - Help!

G

Guest

I have a strange problem with NTBackup. I use it to backup the System State
before I make significant registry changes, update drivers, or do security
updates, etc.

Recently, I installed a new NVidia video driver for my laptop. The driver
works just fine. But now NTBackup doesn’t work.

Listen to this:
1. I make a System State BU as usual. It completes and verifies without
problem (no errors in Backup
log or in Event Viewer).
2. I then do an immediate System State restore. That also completes without
error.
3. Then I reboot.

Early in the boot process (just after the little moving dots finish) a blue
screen comes up saying Please wait. Then the screen goes black, and the
system hangs.

When I roll back to the system just prior to the new driver installation
(using Acronis), NTBackup works again.

Has anyone heard of this problem? What is it? Is there a cure?

I'd like to use System State BU as it is much faster than creating and
restoring a full Acronis image.
 
D

DL

Where did you source the Nvidea driver, as if I read it correctly, all is OK
if you roll back the driver?
 
G

Guest

Thanks for the quick reply.

Please clarify "erunt."
--
Dell Inspiron 8200, P4 Mobile, 1.7GHz, 512MB, UXGA, Phoenix BIOS A11,
GeForce4 440 Go, XP Pro SP2


DatabaseBen said:
dont remember,
but i think "erunt" can help
 
G

Guest

Thanks for the prompt reply.

The driver (ver 82.10) was downloaded from LaptopVideo2Go.com. This was
necessary as the most recent driver that Dell offered (ver 42.58), was not
compatible with MS06-015. (I have checked with MS on this point.)

Laptop2Go provides a special modified .inf file that is used with the
standard nVidia driver file to make it work with the Dell laptop.

I have already communicated with their user's forum. They know of no
special (e.g., "unmovable") files that should mess up System State BU, but
otherwise, no help.

And yes, the only difference between when SS BU works and when it doesn't is
the driver.
I have tried 4 different driver versions as suggested by Laptop2Go, and the
problem is similar, though not identical. With some of the earlier versions,
the system will reboot slowly, but the video is locked at an unusably low
resolution.

Still, if SS BU is working properly (it gives no errors and indicates that
shadowing is being used), then what should it care if the driver is
different? It would seem that some video configuration file is getting
clobbered by the restore, but how?
 
G

Guest

Thanks for the idea.
After I downloaded and installed ERUNT, I did the following:

The new driver was already installed.
1. SS BU
2. ERUNT registry BU
3. Restore SS BU
4. Reboot - Problem the same as described previously
5. Reboot into Safe Mode
6. Restore registry using ERUNT
7. Reboot - Problem the same
8. Restore system from Acronis image - System OK

Was this what you intended I should do?
Have you seen SS BU not restore the registry correctly?
Any further thoughts?
 
D

DL

I do not use SS BU but have used Erunt without problems
It would appear that the Nvidea driver is the culprit, but why........I
cannot think of any reason other than Laptop manu very often tweak the video
chipset for their mobo, which is why its reccommended that video drivers for
Laptops should generally be obtained only from the Laptop manu.
 
G

Guest

Thanks, DL.

Yes, video drivers for laptops are an issue. I have posted both to the Dell
website User's Forum to discuss the problem of the out-of-date video driver
for the Inspiron 8200 and with Dell tech support. The response from Dell has
been under-whelming. (Recognized by other users as well.) That's the way it
goes.

ERUNT does work on my machine. It appears to be a useful utility, but it
only saves and restores the registry. SS BU backs up nearly all the system
files as well - or at least its supposed to.

Anyway, I appreciate your help.

If anyone else out there can figure this problem out, I'd still like to hear
about it.
 
G

Guest

I have the same laptop configuration, and am running the Dell driver ver
42.58. I have no suggestions for your problem, but could you please
elaborate on the incompatibility with MS06-015. I reviewed MS TechNet
article 918165. It seems to say there was a newer version of MS06-015 dated
April 25 2006, and this fixes the problem with NVIDIA drivers <= 61.94. I am
wondering if there was some other issue you discovered talking with MS tech
support.

I do have a problem with NTBackup hanging if I try to do a shadow full
system backup, but I think it was caused by cancelling a similar earlier
backup, and it left a registry entry (or some other flag) that makes NTBackup
think it is already executing. I am able to do other types of backup without
it hanging. But I have found no clue as to where to look for the cause.


:
 
G

Guest

Newscience:

I changed VSCS to "Automatic" and started it. Tried to do a full backup.
After about 30 seconds of disc activity, it hangs on "Preparing to backup
using shadow copy", same as before.

I tried it again this morning after rebooting, and got the same behaviour.

I am back to believing that the problem is some registry entry (or other
flag) that says effectively "Another shadow backup is already running.".

Regards
Tim
 
G

Guest

Tim,

On 6/20/06 I posted the following to the Dell Community User Forum: Inspiron
- Video. Perhaps it will help.
I am currently using the LaptopVideo2Go v82.10 NVidia driver with Dell's
video BIOS v4.17.00.55.C1, and that is working. I have given up on NTBackup,
but would still like to know why it fails.
============================
Inspiron 8200 NVidia GeForce4 440 Go Video Driver Problems Following April
MS Security Updates

PROBLEM:
A number of people on various forums, including this one, have reported
problems with older NVidia video drivers following installation of the MS
security updates from April. The cause of the conflict is MS06-015. This
known problem was supposedly corrected with a second release of this update,
but in fact it was only partially resolved.

If you have an incompatible driver, once this update is installed, the OS no
longer recognizes the NVidia drivers and on boot simply installs a generic
video driver. No error is generated and at first sight all looks well.
However, if you need to use any of the special features provided by the video
adapter (such as connecting your computer to a TV for a slide or video show),
you’re out of luck.

If you’ve already installed the update, the simplest way to see if this has
happened to you is the following: Open Display Properties (Rt click the
desktop; select Properties); then click Settings|Advanced. You will see
several tabs. If one of them isn’t your NVidia video adapter, then you’ve
got the problem.

On speaking with MS tech support, they have no plans for further remediation
on their end and suggest updating the older video drivers.

However, this advice is easier said than followed. NVidia does not support
mobile (laptop) adapters for Dell, and their web site recommends getting
drivers from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, the latest software driver
available from Dell for the 8200 (R58746.exe) is v. 42.58, A03 (full version
6.13.10.4258, dated 2/03), and this driver is not compatible with MS06-015.
The latest video BIOS from Dell is v.4.17.00.55.C1, A06.

NOTE: To determine your current driver version, use System Information:
Click Start|Programs|Accessories|System Tools|System
Information|Components|Display.
To determine the video BIOS version, use Display Properties (Rt click the
desktop; select Properties); then click Settings|Advanced|Adapter. (This
won’t work if MS06-015 is still installed.)

SOLUTION:
Until Dell does the right thing and provides a WHQL driver that is updated
and compatible, you can still get a newer driver from LaptopVideo2Go.com:
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/index.php?drivers
This page allows access to all the available drivers (and their matching INF
files) listed by the last four digits of the full driver version (i.e. to
find 6.13.10.6742, you’d look for 67.42 by clicking the “65†series of
drivers near the top of the page).
Click the link, F.A.Q. Quickstart Install Guide. This will, in a slightly
cryptic form, tell you what you have to do and will link to other useful
information on the site.
As explained there, you will need to download and save the self-extracting
driver .exe file and the matching modified INF file which will “customizeâ€
the newer driver to work with your older adapter. Once the driver files have
been extracted, the standard INF file included with the driver package must
be replaced with the modified INF file.

The new driver can then be installed using the “Have Disk Method†described
at:
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33

The manuals for the new driver can be downloaded from:
ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/

Note: The old NVidia driver must be uninstalled first. (Check Add/Remove
Programs to see if it’s listed.) The directions for uninstalling are in the
NVidia documentation. If problems with installing the new driver arise, it
is recommended that a driver cleaner be used prior to reinstalling. I used
DriverCleaner Pro v1.5 (build 14) downloaded from
http://www.drivercleaner.net/
Follow the directions in the Readme file carefully.

For my system, with WIN XP Pro SP2, I used an older driver (6742 from
10/04), though more recent versions would probably work. This was a guess
based on some comments on the LaptopVideo2Go forum that the more recent
drivers had trouble with video on a cloned monitor (like a TV), and problems
with stand-by mode. Further it is unlikely that an old board would be able
to take advantage of the newer driver features anyway. The driver
documentation stated compatibility with SP2 and DirectX 9.0c.
The new driver solved the problem with MS06-015, in addition there are many
new features enabled on the board that were not there before. Using
fullscreen video mirror on the cloned monitor allows displaying both photos
and videos on an attached S-video TV with noticeably better quality than with
the old driver. The only glitch that I’ve noticed (and this was reported in
the Laptop Video user forum) is occasional short periods (~1-2 sec) when the
screen goes black while the board is changing modes.

If this procedure works for you, I think a donation to LaptopVideo2Go would
be appropriate. (I am not affiliated with them.)
 
G

Guest

RAEKster,

Thanks for the detailed info. I had not realized that the GeForce options
tab in Display Properties had been disabled (I have not needed to connect the
laptop to a TV for a long time).

I used Add/Remove Programs to check patch KB908531. It showed "Installed on
2006-04-13" which predates the corrected version released April 25. However,
my Registry showed the additional entries that the later version was supposed
to add to fix the NVIDIA problem.

I removed KB908531 and rebooted. Display properties now shows GeForce
options tab again!

Note: My video BIOS version shows 4.17.00.55.C2 versus your C1.

Windows immediately showed it was downloading updates. Two were listed:
KB908531 (just deleted) and KB921398 from August 2006. I deselected 908531
and installed 921398. Note that it "replaces MS05-016". Read carefully!
This is not MS06-015.

During shutdown, I got a window: "End Program - NVIDIA Twinview Window not
responding". Selected "End Program".

On bootup, immediately got icon showing "Updates ready to install". This
was KB908531 again. Display properties still show GeForce4 440 Go tab.

What a frustrating problem, accompanied by circular finger-pointing!
MS06-015 breaks NVIDIA/Dell driver operation. MS won't fix it. Dell won't
fix it. NVIDIA doesn't support it! LaptopVideo2Go driver fixes NVIDIA
problem but apparently breaks NTBackup.

I will think about trying the LaptopVideo2Go driver, but I am relying on
NTBackup for system backups, and don't want to risk not being able to restore.

Tim
 

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