Warning for those buying a new printer

[Lyn Buchanan]

This might be helpful to anyone on the list who is thinking about buying new
equipment: Please spread this to other lists, as well, in the hopes that it
will help others.

I purchased an Epson C62 printer last year, which was a good printer. I had
no complaints other than the fact that they build a chip into their ink
cartridges so you can't refill them. For most people, this is not a
problem, but I do a LOT of printing, and refilling is the only way to go.
$3 for new ink is much better than $50. The cartridge chip is something
they don't tell you about when you buy the printer, nor is there anything
about it in the manual, or on their web site. You only learn about it the
hard way - after you've already bought the machine.

Yesterday, an error message popped up and told me that "some parts of the
printer are at the end of their life cycle", and that I should take the
printer to be repaired. There is absolutely nothing in the manual about
this, so I searched the internet and found out that there is also a chip
inside the printer which counts the number of times you clean the ink
nozzles, and then it figures that the waste ink pad is dirty, so it blocks
you from using your printer at all any more until you get a new pad. This
is several hundred cleanings, so for most people, it isn't an issue, but for
people like me, who use their printer a lot, it just became a very big
issue.

The average user will take the machine to the repair shop and be faced with
a bill of at least $80 to have an ink pad changed and have the chip reset.
HOWEVER, guess what else I learned the hard way... the Epson C62's chip
can't be reset. My only resort is to buy a new machine. It is the same for
several other models, but there is no way for you to find out ahead of time
whether the model you are buying is one of them. For these models, you
evidently have to have the whole motherboard changed, at a cost of another
$100 or so, or buy another machine.... which is what this whole situation
was designed for making you do.

I found out that all Epson printers are designed to let you clean your print
nozzles just so many times, and then you can't use the machine any more.
This is not in their manuals, advertising, help files, etc. No one will
tell you this before you buy the machine. Instead of a simple warning and a
pull-out drawer where you can change the pad yourself, you are left with a
machine which is mechanically fine, but which Epson has intentionally
designed to be totally unusable unless you go out and pay a huge repair bill
or simply buy a new one.

And I thought that the cartridge chip was an underhanded thing to do to
their customers!!!

Bottom line - if you are looking for a printer that you will use a lot -
under no circumstances should you buy an Epson. Epson does not have your
best interests at heart, and they have designed their machines to make you
pay all kinds of hidden costs. I'm sure that there are other tricky traps
that I haven't uncovered, and won't - because when I go out today to buy a
new printer - it won't be an Epson.

That being their company's policy, I would not buy any of their other
products, either.

I hope that this saves someone some money and equipment headaches. Please
send this out to as many lists as you can, in the hopes that it will help
others, as well.

 

[Ivor Floppy]

[...]

I found out that all Epson printers are designed to let you clean your
print
nozzles just so many times, and then you can't use the machine any more.

As do printers from Canon, HP, Lexmark........

 

[XO]

Yep. My last Epson was the Photo 700. When learning of the 'chip', I
switched brands when upgrading printers.
--------

 

[Kevin]

Mostly inaccurate. There is no such thing as a chip that only allows so
many nozzle cleanings on Epson printers. Yes, when the printer figures that
the waste ink pad is saturated and about to spill, it does produce the
notification you mention. This is not new information at all. It is common
knowledge that Epson cartridges are chipped. They have been for years.

 

[Burt]

Canon printers have a "waste tank full" error code that first warns you and
subsequently shuts the printer down. Same issue that you have described in
your Epson. The reset code sequences are available on the internet for the
Canon and one reset without removing the pad and replacing it is probably
ok. I believe that some Epson codes may also be available for the same
problem. The other side of this issue is that you would be most upset if
there were no such warning and the ink oozed out of the printer onto your
antique 18th century desk! This issue has been covered in this NG in the
last few weeks. Bottom line - almost everyone agreed that the printers
should be designed to permit owner maintenance for waste ink removal.
Again, looking at the flip side, what would be Epson or Canon's liability if
your were a total klutz and got the ink all over your clothes and carpets as
you followed instructions to remove the waste ink. Probably more expensive
than buying a new printer. Believe me, I am not an apologist for these
companies. If they designed a consumer friendly waste ink removal system it
would have to be neat and well contained like the ink cartridges.

 

[Tony]

Lyn
I don't think there is a solution for the c62;
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/60/1 (especially page 2) explains why,
you may already have tried this?
If you are forced to buy a replacement then go to
http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml which has a link listing which Epson printers
can be reset by software means. Be warned however that resetting the counter
may not be enough, in my experience you can do it at least once with most Epson
printers, after that you may be forced to replace the waste pads anyway as they
fill up. The liquid content slowly evaporates from the pads but the solid
matter does not, so eventually the pads must start to overflow....messy!
By the way I think some later printers from at least 2 vendors put the waste
ink in a special part of the cartridge, no doubt other vendors will do that
also. Also I do not believe that HP printers have this problem, certainly not
the less recent ones, there is no mechanism on any I have seen that counts the
amount of waste ink in the printer....What happens with many HP printers is
that the service station that holds the waste ink simply fills up and then the
carriage starts to "bulldoze" ink causing a fine ink mist to contaminate the
printer, fortunately this can be prevented by regularly cleaning out the
service station, there are links on the HP website with instructions for doing
this for many of their printers; other models need to be serviced (covers
removed and/or pads replaced) to achieve this.
As I mentioned above some new models from some vendors do not have this problem
in that they put the waste ink back into the cartridge, this is new technology
and yet to be proven in the marketplace, it has it's own potential issues of
course, refilling a cartridge would require emptying of the waste as well as
adding new ink!
Tony

 

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

The average user will take the machine to the repair shop and be faced with
a bill of at least $80 to have an ink pad changed and have the chip reset.
HOWEVER, guess what else I learned the hard way... the Epson C62's chip
can't be reset. My only resort is to buy a new machine.

Let's see, a C62 was what--$60? And they charge $80 to change the pad?

What about the concept of a "disposable printer" don't you understand?

Suck it up, and buy a new printer. Better yet, find some $29 printers
and buy a skid of them. It's cheaper than anything else.

 

[tyranix95]

If you print that many pages, then you shouldn't have bought a low-end
inkjet printer in the first place. You'd be better off getting business
inkjet printer or laser printer if you didn't need color. On top of
that, you want to refill your carts, which will most likely cause
issues if you're using inks that clog Epson printers. Same issue if you
were doing this to a Canon or HP. Your own fault for buying a cheap
printer for heavy duty printing.

 

[Davy]

The Intellidge chip on the ink tank as Epson calls it is basically a
programmable device and is basically a memory device, clocking the
number of times the nozzles are 'in operation' and when a specific
level is reach it 'flags' or tells the CPU in the printer - stop
printing out of ink!

The ink level in 'chipped' Epsons are only estimated and not like that
water gauge on your car.

You can get a chip 'resetter', the base unit on which the ink tank
sits contains an electronic circuit which 'resets' the chip, thus
allowing you to refill.

Now you have just gotta be careful when buying 2nd hand printers - not
just Epsons. There is also another 'clocking device' which tells the
cpu to stop printing and this is the waste ink pad, a counter within
the cpu (which is in the printer itself) flags an address line and
say's stop printing. In this case you will have to strip the unit
down replace the waste pad and reset the CPU but this time you will
have to put the printer in 'service mode' apply a programme to reset
all the data held in memory.

This does count the number of cleaning cycles.

There may well be more simpler way's to do this operation and the
reason of bringing this up is that 2nd hand printers may not have had
a 'full service'.


How do I know....Well I had my C62 for about 8 months, "print head"
said the dealer literally throwing it in the bin, the replacement
went the same way in about the same length of time.

Whilst under warrenty I ensured I used Epson inks and what a sucker I
was....! The unit will clog whether you use Epson inks or not.

I have said before and will again here, what are you to do when you go
away on holiday - come back and buy a new printer. No mention of
preventative head clogging in the manual is there.

For more see 'Woe of Epson (C62)' and 'Ode to Epson'

The garbage man takes our bin no matter whats in, the other day he saw
an Epson in and he refused to take the bin.....Lol...

Davy

 

[Ivor Floppy]

[..]

I have said before and will again here, what are you to do when you go
away on holiday - come back and buy a new printer. No mention of
preventative head clogging in the manual is there.

Yet my Epson 460 sits for months at a time between uses, and everytime I
power it up it never has any clogged nozzles. Using 3rd party inks too.

 

[measekite]

[..]

I have said before and will again here, what are you to do when you go
away on holiday - come back and buy a new printer. No mention of
preventative head clogging in the manual is there.

Yet my Epson 460 sits for months at a time between uses, and everytime I
power it up it never has any clogged nozzles. Using 3rd party inks too.

Who is the manufacturer/formulator of you 3rd party inks?

 

[Bob Headrick]

[...]

I found out that all Epson printers are designed to let you clean your print
nozzles just so many times, and then you can't use the machine any more.

As do printers from Canon, HP, Lexmark........

This is not true for any HP DeskJet, Photosmart or PSC unit. Some printers
such as the DeskJet 450 portable do have small service station that needs to be
cleaned or replaced and it will give the user a message to that effect. None
of the aforementioned HP printers will stop printing based on the number of
cleaning cycles that have been run.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Impmon]

As do printers from Canon, HP, Lexmark........

Maybe so but when my old Canon 4200 quit, I was able to do a reset,
replaced the ink pad on the bottom of the printer with some paper
towels, and kept printing on a while longer before I finally retired
that printer. I don't know if you can still circumvent waste pad full
issue on newer printers with chip reset or not.

 

[CWatters]

[...]

I found out that all Epson printers are designed to let you clean your
print
nozzles just so many times, and then you can't use the machine any more.

As do printers from Canon, HP, Lexmark........

I don't think my old HP 895 had such a device. If it did I might not have
had ink all over the place when I had to move it :-(.

On balance I'm glad it didn't because I was able to take the priner apart
and empty the tray myself.

 

[CWatters]

Lyn
I don't think there is a solution for the c62;
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/60/1 (especially page 2) explains why,
you may already have tried this?
If you are forced to buy a replacement then go to
http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml which has a link listing which Epson printers
can be reset by software means. Be warned however that resetting the counter
may not be enough, in my experience you can do it at least once with most Epson
printers, after that you may be forced to replace the waste pads anyway as they
fill up. The liquid content slowly evaporates from the pads but the solid
matter does not, so eventually the pads must start to overflow....messy!

Yes perhaps we should have anothe thread ...

Warning - some printers DON'T tell you when they are about to trash your
carpet.

I suspect the printer manufacturers have been taken to court once too
frequently.

 

[Davy]

CWatterswrote:

Lyn
I don't think there is a solution for the c62;

Davy say's
Yes there is, toss it in the middle of the Pacific or on the

driveway of Seiko Epson.

 

[Trapezium]

This might be helpful to anyone on the list who is thinking about buying
new
equipment: Please spread this to other lists, as well, in the hopes that
it
will help others.

This is usual - and the usual answer is to run this utility to reset the
printer.

http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml

Download, apply, and forget about Epson's trickery. I've used it a couple
of times on a C60 with no adverse effect at all. Obviously, the drip sponge
will eventually become saturate and will have to be replaced - but I can
tell you from experience that Epson set their 'warning' far to soon - in the
case of a moderately used printer you can expect another year or two of use
before the SSC utility becomes unviable due to saturation of the sponge.

 

[SLLD]

I wonder when my C84 will go out I have been using it for almost 2 years and
have printed about 35 pamplets per week.
Still works great .. BTW I use printpal.com ink
I'm getting an allinone cx6600 for the convience of a scanner and all built
in
It is working ok now . I will probably use it some since I now know my epaon
is nearing its end of life ??
Printpal carts are very reasonable in price. no I work for no one
Also I only paid about $68 for my C84 and $6.95 for the carts.
Not the best but not too bad.
There is a software chip reseter on the web that works great for me when the
ink gets low.
When I buy another printer it will be an Epson...
To each his own..

 

[Shooter]

This is usual - and the usual answer is to run this utility to reset the
printer.

http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml

Download, apply, and forget about Epson's trickery. I've used it a couple
of times on a C60 with no adverse effect at all. Obviously, the drip sponge
will eventually become saturate and will have to be replaced - but I can
tell you from experience that Epson set their 'warning' far to soon - in the
case of a moderately used printer you can expect another year or two of use
before the SSC utility becomes unviable due to saturation of the sponge.

I think you have been very lucky and to suggest a user uses the SSC util
twice is pushing the luck machine to the limits. It's akin to jumping into a
lake not being able to swim and hope you can reach the bottom with your
feet, yes, you drown, with a printer you have a hell of a mess, you only do
it once.

Epson measure the waste ink in points and for example a 2100/2200 allows
60.000 points before the leds flash. if you take a reading and and get
anything over 40,000 then you have to change the pads before resetting.

Many of these printers have a single tube which runs from the pump to the
waste pad, it is a simple job to re-route this tube and extend it to a waste
bottle hence no more problems with waste ink. Infact if you use a CIS it is
essential that a waste bottle is fitted otherwise the user would very
quickly reach the figure of no return.

Future printers may well adopt the Epson method of channelling the waste
back to the ink cart as they do in the Picturemate, the down side to that is
refilling the carts as well as re-setting them.

I use an Epson 2100 and only have ever used third party dye ink and the
results are stunning., however how long they will last is another matter. OK
Epson would not touch my printer for repair but if something really bad
happens it would be cheaper to replace than repair.

 

[Trapezium]

I think you have been very lucky and to suggest a user uses the SSC util
twice is pushing the luck machine to the limits. It's akin to jumping into
a
lake not being able to swim and hope you can reach the bottom with your
feet, yes, you drown, with a printer you have a hell of a mess, you only
do
it once.

Epson measure the waste ink in points and for example a 2100/2200 allows
60.000 points before the leds flash. if you take a reading and and get
anything over 40,000 then you have to change the pads before resetting.

Many of these printers have a single tube which runs from the pump to the
waste pad, it is a simple job to re-route this tube and extend it to a
waste
bottle hence no more problems with waste ink. Infact if you use a CIS it
is
essential that a waste bottle is fitted otherwise the user would very
quickly reach the figure of no return.

Future printers may well adopt the Epson method of channelling the waste
back to the ink cart as they do in the Picturemate, the down side to that
is
refilling the carts as well as re-setting them.

I use an Epson 2100 and only have ever used third party dye ink and the
results are stunning., however how long they will last is another matter.
OK
Epson would not touch my printer for repair but if something really bad
happens it would be cheaper to replace than repair.<<

I can only speak from my own experience - two rests, no problems. I'll try
another rest if/when I have to and see what happens. After all, most people
would junk the machine given the high cost of foam pad replacement - so
what's to lose?

I also use third-party ink and my local Epson service centre (franchised)
has no problem accepting Epson's in for warranty work with non-Epson inks in
the machine. I haven't had to take mine in, but I mentioned that I was
keeping the originals just in case it ever needed to be seen in 'genuine'
condition - and they told me not to bother because it made no difference to
them what ink was in it.

I assume that they're very keen to perform warranty work - and aren't going
to turn it away by quibbling about the brand of ink.