Vista & Vienna

  • Thread starter Thread starter D. Spencer Hines
  • Start date Start date
Who really cares about Vista and it's new features when the current
Microsoft disaster has given so many people headaches and quite a few want
to return to XP? Now we are speculating on Vienna? The body isn't even
cold yet!!!
The local computer shop where I buy PCs for the office will no longer
install Vista on new machines, except by request. They've had
too many customer problems.

They now offer a choice of XP or Linux on a new machines. Vista
is no longer mentioned.
 
Thats true with most technology products in the world today. Go to buy a
"plain" copier for you office today. They all come with so many features
some people who just want a plain one are overwhelmed.

Will everyone use every "feature" that windows comes with? Of course not!
But some will use this and some will use that thus making the product have
features for everyone. I find it funny when people look at Vista (and
people said the same thing about XP when it came out) and complain about
some icon they see in some menu.

"Why did they leave that in there!!! Argh!!!"

Who cares?

Jeff
 
Thats true with most technology products in the world today. Go to buy a
"plain" copier for you office today. They all come with so many features
some people who just want a plain one are overwhelmed.

Will everyone use every "feature" that windows comes with? Of course not!
But some will use this and some will use that thus making the product have
features for everyone. I find it funny when people look at Vista (and
people said the same thing about XP when it came out) and complain about
some icon they see in some menu.

"Why did they leave that in there!!! Argh!!!"

Who cares?
Unlike XP, ther are NO new features in Vista that I need. Therefore,
why would I pay money to Microsoft for what is essntially a
downgrade ? There are a lot of people I know still running Windows
2000, which I think was probably Microsoft's best product.

The bloat, the DRM, the bugs, the hardware requirements, the
application failures.....all this crap is drving customers away.

And NO...........XP did not have nearly as many problems as Vista
when it first came out.
 
Unlike XP, ther are NO new features in Vista that I need. Therefore,
why would I pay money to Microsoft for what is essntially a
downgrade ? There are a lot of people I know still running Windows
2000, which I think was probably Microsoft's best product.

I have a variety of 2000, xp and vista machines on our network here and each
os has its own machine. Put vista on an older machine and they will hate
it, however, put it on a newer machine and they will probably love it. It
took me a short while to get used to the changes (explorer, etc) but once I
did I like them.
The bloat, the DRM, the bugs, the hardware requirements, the
application failures.....all this crap is drving customers away.

Bloat? I don't know i'm not a programmer, however, considering they have to
keep code in there to run older programs as well as the new engine for
"vista" software it is naturally going to get larger. Thats been true for
every OS release I've seen.

Bugs? Again windows XP, 95, 98 they all had the same problems. People had
problems with 98 until they released "second edition" with xp it was SP2. I
find i'm having less problems with Vista than XP sp2 but then I also have a
newer laptop. (year old)

I don't see it driving customers away.
And NO...........XP did not have nearly as many problems as Vista
when it first came out.

Yes it did. People had driver problems just like with vista because XP used
NT style drivers and 95/98 did not. Granted that was all 5 years ago so you
might not remember. ;)

Jeff
 
I have a variety of 2000, xp and vista machines on our network here and each
os has its own machine. Put vista on an older machine and they will hate
it, however, put it on a newer machine and they will probably love it. It
took me a short while to get used to the changes (explorer, etc) but once I
did I like them.


Bloat? I don't know i'm not a programmer, however, considering they have to
keep code in there to run older programs as well as the new engine for
"vista" software it is naturally going to get larger. Thats been true for
every OS release I've seen.

Bugs? Again windows XP, 95, 98 they all had the same problems. People had
problems with 98 until they released "second edition" with xp it was SP2. I
find i'm having less problems with Vista than XP sp2 but then I also have a
newer laptop. (year old)

I don't see it driving customers away.


Yes it did. People had driver problems just like with vista because XP used
NT style drivers and 95/98 did not. Granted that was all 5 years ago so you
might not remember. ;)

Jeff

You make some good points, however in reality I have a small network
with 12 clients. (Windows 2003 server & Windows XP). This system runs
very well. We depend on this system. Why would I want to put my
company at risk by upgrading to a beta operating system ?

In addition, our small comapny cannot cost justify the installation of
Vista. By the time you figure OS cost, software cost, hardware cost &
IT time its over $15,000.00. The boss says no. We will continue to run
XP until it dies. Then he syas he'll hire a Linux consultant.

When I upgraded the clients to XP, we did not have the issues that
come with Vista. XP ran very well on my existing hardware. There
were no issues with legacy software. So I will continue to
disagree with you about XP.
 
John Locke said:
You make some good points, however in reality I have a small network
with 12 clients. (Windows 2003 server & Windows XP). This system runs
very well. We depend on this system. Why would I want to put my
company at risk by upgrading to a beta operating system ?

In addition, our small comapny cannot cost justify the installation of
Vista. By the time you figure OS cost, software cost, hardware cost &
IT time its over $15,000.00. The boss says no. We will continue to run
XP until it dies. Then he syas he'll hire a Linux consultant.

When I upgraded the clients to XP, we did not have the issues that
come with Vista. XP ran very well on my existing hardware. There
were no issues with legacy software. So I will continue to
disagree with you about XP.

It all depends on what you use the computers for and whether or not the
software and drivers are compatible with Vista. If you have mobile users
for example that have confidential information on their laptops then Vista
is the way to go when you use bitlocker for example.

I'm not rushing to upgrade everyone here either as their hardware won't
support it.

Some people had lots of problems switching to XP just like switching to
Vista, others didn't.
 
D. Spencer Hines said:
-------------------------------------------------------

Well, that certainly makes Good Sense.

Internet Usage SHOULD be a Major Consideration in Vienna, but not a
crippling one.

DSH

Absolutely! I second that!

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"DRM is not added to anything in Vista."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
John said:
You make some good points, however in reality I have a small network
with 12 clients. (Windows 2003 server & Windows XP). This system runs
very well. We depend on this system. Why would I want to put my
company at risk by upgrading to a beta operating system ?

In addition, our small comapny cannot cost justify the installation of
Vista. By the time you figure OS cost, software cost, hardware cost &
IT time its over $15,000.00. The boss says no. We will continue to run
XP until it dies. Then he syas he'll hire a Linux consultant.

When I upgraded the clients to XP, we did not have the issues that
come with Vista. XP ran very well on my existing hardware. There
were no issues with legacy software. So I will continue to
disagree with you about XP.
I just upgraded about 15 PC's here and I got them all with XP and the
upgrade option for Vista and Office 2007. I won't be installing Vista
any time soon. Even though the PC's are capable of running Vista there
are other issues I don't want to deal with at this time. It just isn't
the right time for Vista in our business. That doesn't make Vista
worthless it just makes it the wrong OS for our company at this time.

At home....I loaded it the day it came out. It's been working well for
me there.

gls858
 
HEMI-Powered said:
Today, Poprivet made these interesting comments ...
Lots of people. Don't forget, all you'll see here are people
wiht problems, not those for whom it's working properly and as
expected. You get the "bell curve" lower end of things here. [snip]

I agree. Newspapers and talk shows regularly have "call in"
questions about problems or controversial issues. Basically, the
only people who call in are those with problems, or those violently
in favor of or violently opposed to the controversial question.
Statistically, the sample of the total population of possible
responders is so skewed as to be absurdly invalid. So, just looking
at these MS NGs as a sample, it is but a small microcism of the
total installed base of Windows, and besides newbies or folks
coming in with their very first problem, many of the OPs and
repliers are "regulars". That doesn't make anyone necessarily good
or bad, I'm simply agreeing with you.

If anyone had any real numbers, we could discuss the median and
mean of people's experience on anything we like, but to really say
anything, like "this is great" or "this really sucks", we would
have to be able to calculate the standard deviation, sigma, and
look to the two tails as you say. Plus, we would need to determine
if the distribution curve is Normal or Gaussian, or skewed in some
way to one or the other end. My belief is that Windows is skewed
and whether the preponderance is that it is a very good or a very
bad O/S depends on where in the release cycle it is as well as
people's definition of "good" and "bad."

Lol, agreed! I didn't mean to get into a statistics 101 here, but the
refresher certainly tripped a bunch of synapses! Considering the syntax and
acronyms available, can't you just imagine such a discussion between two
such self-appointed gurus on the subject in ANY usenet newsgroup? First
would be the Normal vs. Gaussian controversey, followed closely by someone
slipping off into Field Theory for an analogy, and then ... ahhh, brain
ache! <G>

Cheers,

Pop`
 
Today, Poprivet made these interesting comments ...
HEMI-Powered said:
Today, Poprivet made these interesting comments ...
Lots of people. Don't forget, all you'll see here are
people wiht problems, not those for whom it's working
properly and as expected. You get the "bell curve" lower
end of things here. [snip]

I agree. Newspapers and talk shows regularly have "call in"
questions about problems or controversial issues. Basically,
the only people who call in are those with problems, or those
violently in favor of or violently opposed to the
controversial question. Statistically, the sample of the
total population of possible responders is so skewed as to be
absurdly invalid. So, just looking at these MS NGs as a
sample, it is but a small microcism of the total installed
base of Windows, and besides newbies or folks coming in with
their very first problem, many of the OPs and repliers are
"regulars". That doesn't make anyone necessarily good or bad,
I'm simply agreeing with you.

If anyone had any real numbers, we could discuss the median
and mean of people's experience on anything we like, but to
really say anything, like "this is great" or "this really
sucks", we would have to be able to calculate the standard
deviation, sigma, and look to the two tails as you say. Plus,
we would need to determine if the distribution curve is
Normal or Gaussian, or skewed in some way to one or the other
end. My belief is that Windows is skewed and whether the
preponderance is that it is a very good or a very bad O/S
depends on where in the release cycle it is as well as
people's definition of "good" and "bad."

Lol, agreed! I didn't mean to get into a statistics 101 here,
but the refresher certainly tripped a bunch of synapses!
Considering the syntax and acronyms available, can't you just
imagine such a discussion between two such self-appointed
gurus on the subject in ANY usenet newsgroup? First would be
the Normal vs. Gaussian controversey, followed closely by
someone slipping off into Field Theory for an analogy, and
then ... ahhh, brain ache! <G>
Pop, in another life, I did some computer programming of prob and
stat stuff, then in a later life at Chrysler, I managed CAD and
PC support people, so got to know the car guys at all levels from
techs and designers to VPs. After a total of 33 years, in a wide
variety of jobs, I can pretty well predict what goes into a car
and how probability and statistics are used in the development
and testing processes, including those of normal long-term
proving grounds testing and the accelerated endurance runs with
new launch vehicles, where they need to extrapolite very limited
data into a go-no go decision to proceed with the launch or delay
and fix some things.

As to distributions, I'd have to dig out my text books, but what
most people believe these curves to be is the normal or bell-
shaped curve, but almost nothing in nature and certainly nothing
that is manufactured obeys that exactly. I knew the guy who, in
the 1970s/1980s held the exaulted title of Chief Statician for
Engineering, he helped me a great deal and could tell you stories
both sad and humorous until the cows came home.

The reason I went off the deep end here was that my life has been
built around facts, as best I can make it, and I get annoyed
quickly with "they said" kinds of non-factual emotional
responses. So, in the context of this thread, even though I have
no Vista experience at all, I would say that the true nature of
its quality is somewhere in the middle between total POS and the
most brilliant operating system ever conceived. Depends a lot on
who's counting, right? <grin>
 
Jeffrey S. Sparks said:
Why would I want a new OS to run OLDER programs?

So that every time a new OS comes out, I won't have to scrap all my
perfectly good software and start all over you stupid son of a bitch
 
Jeffrey said:
Why would I want a new OS to run OLDER programs?
So that every time a new OS comes out, I won't have to scrap all my
perfectly good software and start all over you stupid son of a bitch

Who is actually the bigger 'stupid SoB'?

Those who don't want to upgrade their older 'perfectly good software' after
upgrading their 'perfectly good OS that it all works on currently'...
or
Those who went ahead and upgraded their 'perfectly good OS that everything
they have works on currently' knowing that their older software/older
hardware (written/produced usually by third parties with a specific OS and
such in mind) probably won't work?

Put more bluntly - why would you upgrade your OS if you had no reason to?
 
"with most of current popular programs and almost all dating a few
years back"
Please post the source for this.
My own experience has nearly 100% compatibility, it is 100% if I
forget the program I installed simply to verify someone else's issue.

While there are compatibility issues, they seem to be the minority and
not "most of current popular programs", as you state.
List all the programs you use including those that are compatible.
Someone may be able to give you the solution that eludes you so far.

100% backwards compatibility is nearly impossible especially if you
consider poorly written programs that no longer work because of their
issues security and otherwise.
Windows XP will be supported for at least a few more years so
compatibility with Vista is not really an issue.
 
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