Vista Sucks!

[mikeyhsd]

you should just write it off as a virtual spanking by our resident net nanny.
no one is allowed to post anything unless he approves of it in advance.
no one else is allowed to present help or advise unless he approves of it in advance.
he even feels it is necessary to post contradicting or correcting other mvps. excusing it as they did not present sufficient info. when it just getting his name in lights again.

if you do not post using PERFECT english you are wrong.
if you do not post using PERFECT grammar you are wrong.
if you do not post using perfect PUNCTUATION you are wrong.
and worse heaven forbid if you fail to post in the proper news group you are denied an answer but told to buzz off and go to the proper news group.

our little net nanny seems to forget there are many people who post here whose first language is not english. and have a lacking of understanding on how things should work. more tolerance should be given with the prime purpose being to HELP PEOPLE and not shame them or tell them where to go.




(e-mail address removed)

Giving incorrect advice is one thing. Everyone makes mistakes, no one knows
everything. One of the good things about these newsgroups is the peer
review. When you blow it folks see it and call you on it. And yes some
make more mistakes than others.

Intentionally posting ridiculous, misleading, or unhelpful advice is another
issue altogether. Need I refer back to one of your first posts, to the OP
who had Firefox on their system where you replied to the OP that because of
it the MS police would be after him? And on top of which it was totally
unrelated to the problem he was posting about, namely Windows Explorer
crashing.

That was an obvious joke and he DID refer to Firefox. That was part of the
post.

At the present moment you must admit that there is an awful lot of third
party things that don't work with Vista. You and people like you blame the
makers of the apps and hardware, but my angle is that those manufacturers
cannot be expected to keep upgrading their products every time Microsoft
tells them to. Some of these companies have to almost rewrite their whole
code base to accommodate Vista. And one of the main things that bugs me
about THAT is that CUSTOMERS have to buy new products every time that
happens. That is a disturbing trend for alot of people. Some people have
invested ALOT of money on apps and hardware. To think they would have to
abandon those and upgrade "just because" is worrisome at best. You are
probably also aware that MS has been in trouble with the law for "not
playing nice" with other companies. They have been sued and LOST in some
huge lawsuits, but now the same things are happening over again. As people
have pointed out, Vista is having similar problems to XP. Is this a
business model for them now?

Abusive? How about your post yesterday in windowsxp.general where your
clock was off. A person replied letting you know this, and your response
was to call him a dumb*ss. Your reaction was to ridicule him claiming it
was because you were in a different time zone, when in reality you were the
one with the misunderstanding about how message times are displayed, and you
were, in fact, posting from the future.

Which I promptly apologized for after realizing I made a mistake, even
BEFORE you chastised me. You obviously didn't read his abusive
condescending previous post, which prompted my remark. I was retaliating,
not initiating.

From my perspective there WAS no future posting. The date and time were
completely accurate. As you have doubtfully seen, there is a legitimate
problem with the time servers. The time servers have been having difficulty
due to the unusual time change this year. It certainly wasn't my fault that
the time changed differently this year and caused problems.

He falsely accused me of deliberately future posting (which came out of
nowhere by the way. There was absolutely no reason for it). He didn't
simply say "you are future posting" like you did, he attacked me first. He
was not merely pointing out the the time was wrong, he was accusing me of
doing it on purpose, which is ridiculous.

He is one of the very helpful regular posters in that newsgroup. Did he
deserve that - just because he wanted to let you know of a problem of which
you might not be aware?

I certainly haven't seen that. Before your tirade, I considered him to be
one of the more abusive posters. It can be very subtle, but is there
nonetheless.

You are abusive to the poor soul who comes in here with a problem when you
ridicule their predicament by posting your garbage. They come here for
help, not to hear you spout a personal agenda. Why take it out on them?

Have you read between the lines of most of these posts? They are unhappy
wihth the performance of these products.

If you really want to help someone you must first sympathize.

It would be one thing if you simply kept to stating an opinion about Vista
and MS. There are plenty of folks in here who do that, and I respect their
right to it. But you don't. You take it out on the innocent folks posting
here for help. That is the height of abusiveness.

How so? How am I "taking it out" on "innocent folks"? I don't even see how
you think I am abusing people anymore than most of the people that post
here. I don't even really see how you think I am "abusing" people here.
How am I abusing them? I AM stating opinions about Vista and MS, not
personally attacking people.

You changed your posting name to misrepresent yourself as an MVP. That
shows a lack of integrity, and in my assessment isn't very smart. Why can't
you let your opinions stand on their own?

I'm demonstrating the absurdity of the "MVP". I actually did read through
these newgroups for awhile before posting and MOST of the "MVP's" here
either give bad advice (yes I've seen it, including you just today) and/or
are abusive to innocent people for no reason. One of the posters asked a
legitimate question about one of the "MVP's" posts regarding the time server
problem and you had to tear him a new one. That was not called for. Some
of the MVP's basically have the opinion the the person asking the question
is "dumb" and wonders why the person would even ask that question. I don't
track everyones posts, but I could easily find more examples.

I find the proposition interesting that it's ok for a poster to lie,
intentionally mislead, misrepresent, and take it out on innocent third
parties, but when someone who happens to have an MVP designation stands up
against it, that gets labeled as abusive or rude.

You or anyone else is welcome to "stand up against it". I'm not debating
that you have a right to correct things. You are putting words into my
mouth (or typing them, hehe). I'm not even really sure at what point you
thought I was against "peer review". As I said, prior to that ONE event, I
hadn't personally attacked others, yet in their wisdom many "MVP's" saw fit
to attack me PERSONALLY. It wasn't enough to simply call me a troll and
tell people not to listen. They could have siomply said the information was
false (if it actually was, but thats another story) and provided correct
info. I've joked about a few things that I would think any reasonable
person could see through. I guess Ill have to specify that I'm joking.

What I wrote in this thread that has engendered this discussion was actually
in a reply to another party. It was not directed to you nor an attack on
you. I simply stated my opinion that "He's not very good at being a troll
either. More than a bit stupid." All this is in reference to your on going
behavior. You got called on what you do, and you don't like it. That's too
bad.

"More than a bit stupid"? How is that not an attack? I haven't even
attacked YOU directly, yet you see fit to attack ME. Prior to this rant, I
was beginning to acknowledge that you may have been one of the people
"above" all of this. FYI I don't' recall anything I've said prior to now
has had anything to do with you personally or that you were giving bad
advice.

Compare the tenor in this newsgroup to windowsxp.general, for example, where
you have also done some trolling. It's much different there, in spite of
the occasional posts by you and a few others. The focus is much more on
users helping users In here there is so much more of the trolling, by the
Mac advocates, the Linux folks and those who just feel like they want to
mess with MS, much of it at the expense of the person who had the audacity
to ask for help.

Do the trolls care about them? They make little of their plight, make fun
of it. Why? Just because it's a new OS and some people have a personal
agenda against MS?

Hey, let's be honest, Microsoft IS to blame for alot of this. I'm sure you
know that they have HIRED people to come here and ADVOCATE Microsoft
products. That's amazing to me. People NEED to know that and there ought
to be a counter to that (people telling the truth that MS isn't perfect).

If MS HRIES people to come here, they must be monitoring these groups for
product ideas and problems. I've heard they even deliberately harass people
to see what matters most to them based on how they respond.

People saying Ohhh, MS is so great, no problems! That isn't going to fix or
change anything. As I've mentioned Ive been in this industry over 12 years
and I have seen it progressively slide downhill because of dumb things that
could be fixed. People are astounded by the activation issue in my
experience (spare the lecture about piracy). MS got where it is due to
casual copying so people could try before they bought). I am astounded that
MS can't get it right after all their experience. There is no longer
justification for reinventing the wheel every few years and coming out with
a whole new product that doesn't work with the old stuff. People have too
much time and money invested now (not to mention large companies with
hundreds or thousands of PCs) to continually play the MS upgrade game.

I recently had to provide a driver for an older DVD drive just to install
Vista! That is absurd! One can't even GET older drivers for some hardware.
Previous versions of Windows didn't even NEED drivers for CD/DVD drives.

 

[Rock]

That was an obvious joke and he DID refer to Firefox. That was part of
the
post.

At the present moment you must admit that there is an awful lot of third
party things that don't work with Vista. You and people like you blame
the
makers of the apps and hardware, but my angle is that those manufacturers
cannot be expected to keep upgrading their products every time Microsoft
tells them to. Some of these companies have to almost rewrite their whole
code base to accommodate Vista. And one of the main things that bugs me
about THAT is that CUSTOMERS have to buy new products every time that
happens. That is a disturbing trend for alot of people. Some people have
invested ALOT of money on apps and hardware. To think they would have to
abandon those and upgrade "just because" is worrisome at best. You are
probably also aware that MS has been in trouble with the law for "not
playing nice" with other companies. They have been sued and LOST in some
huge lawsuits, but now the same things are happening over again. As
people
have pointed out, Vista is having similar problems to XP. Is this a
business model for them now?

There was a 5 year time gap between the release of XP and Vista. One of the
longest gaps in the MS OS release cycle. It's about time for change, and
time for changes in the security model.

That hardware manufacturer's don't support legacy hardware with new drivers
is nothing new to the release of Vista. I happens with every OS release.
Some vendors are not even supporting some of their latest hardware releases.
This is there responsibility, not MS's. The vendors have had a long to to
get ready for this. It's not an issue of time, it's an issue of not wanting
to.

The software vendors have only themselves to blame. They have lost their
creativity. MS tried to get them to move away from coding software that
needs admin privileges. But they stick to what's easiest for them. Now
Vista is forcing that issue, and the software vendors have to change. Yes I
blame them for it.

Which I promptly apologized for after realizing I made a mistake, even
BEFORE you chastised me. You obviously didn't read his abusive
condescending previous post, which prompted my remark. I was retaliating,
not initiating.

From my perspective there WAS no future posting. The date and time were
completely accurate. As you have doubtfully seen, there is a legitimate
problem with the time servers. The time servers have been having
difficulty
due to the unusual time change this year. It certainly wasn't my fault
that
the time changed differently this year and caused problems.

He falsely accused me of deliberately future posting (which came out of
nowhere by the way. There was absolutely no reason for it). He didn't
simply say "you are future posting" like you did, he attacked me first.
He
was not merely pointing out the the time was wrong, he was accusing me of
doing it on purpose, which is ridiculous.

Doesn't matter what your perspective was. You were posting from the future.
What you could say that I would take as a true statement is that you didn't
know it or intend it, but you were. What got you p*ssed was that he called
you on your abuse of the Microsoft MVP designation by falsely
misrepresenting who you are. Here is the quote of his post, to refresh your
memory.

"Mr.Microsoft MVP

"You are posting in the future, Your time is off. Pretty stupid from a
wanabee pretending."

There is nothing untrue in what Peter wrote. I don't see this as an attack,
nor even an direct accusation that you were doing something intentionlly.
You were posting from the future and your time was off. What got you is
that he called you on your lack of integrity. And the fact remains, whether
you knew about it or not, that you were in fact posting from the future.
Here is your response to him.

"Lol, HUH? WTF are you talking about? I'm in the Eastern time zone and
it
"IS in fact 1 AM at the moment and it IS April 4, 2007. Damn you're
dumb.
"Maybe you are in a diff time zone? Ever think of that one dumbass?"

I see a big difference between your two posts. And on top of it, it had
nothing to do with your time zone. For the record you never apologized _to
him_. Another falsehood of yours.

After I pointed out that you were posting in the future and gave you the
relative times, here is your reply to me:

"I probably shouldn't have called him a dumbass (even though he started
it),
"sorry.
"I'm starting to gain some respect for some people here (not Peter).
There
"are some intelligent responses, esp. Rock."

This post of yours was in a reply to me, not to Peter. You apologized, but
to me, not to Peter. And your contention that Peter is "one of the more
abusive posters" is fantasy.

I certainly haven't seen that. Before your tirade, I considered him to be
one of the more abusive posters. It can be very subtle, but is there
nonetheless.


Have you read between the lines of most of these posts? They are unhappy
wihth the performance of these products.

If you really want to help someone you must first sympathize.

So making fun of their problems is the way to make them feel better? What
type of mental masturbation is this?

How so? How am I "taking it out" on "innocent folks"? I don't even see
how
you think I am abusing people anymore than most of the people that post
here. I don't even really see how you think I am "abusing" people here.
How am I abusing them? I AM stating opinions about Vista and MS, not
personally attacking people.

Sigh, I can't make you see it Scott. You make non sensical posts about
their issue, give irrelavant advice, you make jokes about their issues. Why
not try to help them with it rather than just presenting your personal
agenda? If you can't see the difference, I can't help you see it. Why
bother to post to their threads at all? You do it just for the kick of it,
it seems to me.

I'm demonstrating the absurdity of the "MVP". I actually did read through
these newgroups for awhile before posting and MOST of the "MVP's" here
either give bad advice (yes I've seen it, including you just today) and/or
are abusive to innocent people for no reason. One of the posters asked a
legitimate question about one of the "MVP's" posts regarding the time
server
problem and you had to tear him a new one. That was not called for. Some
of the MVP's basically have the opinion the the person asking the question
is "dumb" and wonders why the person would even ask that question. I
don't
track everyones posts, but I could easily find more examples.

The only thing you demonstrate is your lack of integrity and dishonesty.
Masquerading as what you are not does nothing to demonstrate the "absurdity"
of it. More mental masteurbation on your part to rationalize what is
pathetic behavior.

You or anyone else is welcome to "stand up against it". I'm not debating
that you have a right to correct things. You are putting words into my
mouth (or typing them, hehe). I'm not even really sure at what point you
thought I was against "peer review". As I said, prior to that ONE event,
I
hadn't personally attacked others, yet in their wisdom many "MVP's" saw
fit
to attack me PERSONALLY. It wasn't enough to simply call me a troll and
tell people not to listen. They could have siomply said the information
was
false (if it actually was, but thats another story) and provided correct
info. I've joked about a few things that I would think any reasonable
person could see through. I guess Ill have to specify that I'm joking.

So people called you on what you were, but they did it in a way that
offended your sensibilities? Too bad. You embarked on this path. You can
make it end, Scott. You do show a lack of integrity. Anyone who has to
masquerade as another, and then jump on the posts of folks who come here
simply for help, just to try to make a point, is sad and pathetic.

"More than a bit stupid"? How is that not an attack? I haven't even
attacked YOU directly, yet you see fit to attack ME. Prior to this rant,
I
was beginning to acknowledge that you may have been one of the people
"above" all of this. FYI I don't' recall anything I've said prior to now
has had anything to do with you personally or that you were giving bad
advice.

Hey, let's be honest, Microsoft IS to blame for alot of this. I'm sure
you
know that they have HIRED people to come here and ADVOCATE Microsoft
products. That's amazing to me. People NEED to know that and there ought
to be a counter to that (people telling the truth that MS isn't perfect).

I know no such thing. But if that is the case I don't see these people
jumping in on threads where people have problems and making fun of it or
offering nothing to assist but MS sucks or ridiculous, non sensical advice.

There are plenty of ways for you to advocate your point without the nonsense
and dishonesty you feel so comfortable with. And the reality is most folks
see right through you as Peter did. I find it funny that you get so upset
when folks call you on it.

This is a user group, for users to help users with their issues with the
Vista OS. Why can't you leave it at that and find other ways to make your
beliefs known? Something that's constructive and intelligent? I think
you're capable of that.

If MS HRIES people to come here, they must be monitoring these groups for
product ideas and problems. I've heard they even deliberately harass
people
to see what matters most to them based on how they respond.

People saying Ohhh, MS is so great, no problems! That isn't going to fix
or
change anything. As I've mentioned Ive been in this industry over 12
years
and I have seen it progressively slide downhill because of dumb things
that
could be fixed. People are astounded by the activation issue in my
experience (spare the lecture about piracy). MS got where it is due to
casual copying so people could try before they bought). I am astounded
that
MS can't get it right after all their experience. There is no longer
justification for reinventing the wheel every few years and coming out
with
a whole new product that doesn't work with the old stuff. People have too
much time and money invested now (not to mention large companies with
hundreds or thousands of PCs) to continually play the MS upgrade game.

I recently had to provide a driver for an older DVD drive just to install
Vista! That is absurd! One can't even GET older drivers for some
hardware.
Previous versions of Windows didn't even NEED drivers for CD/DVD drives.

I've had enough of this thread. There is nothing more I can say. If you
want the last word in this thread you can have it.

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

if you do not post using PERFECT english you are wrong.
if you do not post using PERFECT grammar you are wrong.
if you do not post using perfect PUNCTUATION you are wrong.

_______________________________


And posting to a text-based group using HTML and scripting is also wrong.



Oh... wait a minute... this isn't the "WHINE" thread...

Sorry...

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"CUSTOMERS have to buy"
FALSE.
No one has to buy anything.
Some CHOOSE to upgrade to Vista and with that CHOICE are other
implications.
If the implications are unsatisfactory, then use your CHOICE and stay
with whatever you have that works.

"they would have to abandon those and upgrade"
FALSE again, it goes with the CHOICE they make.

The reasons above are often used by Microsoft critics in their feeble
attempt to spread FUD.

A new operating system is not in itself a good reason to upgrade.
Windows XP works well and will continue to be supported for years to
come.
This applies to everything not just Microsoft products or even the
computer industry.
Or do you also NEED to buy a new TV when a new model comes out?

The fact you need to deliberately misrepresent yourself as an
Microsoft MVP states volumes of your character and motives.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org

That was an obvious joke and he DID refer to Firefox. That was part
of the
post.

At the present moment you must admit that there is an awful lot of
third
party things that don't work with Vista. You and people like you
blame the
makers of the apps and hardware, but my angle is that those
manufacturers
cannot be expected to keep upgrading their products every time
Microsoft
tells them to. Some of these companies have to almost rewrite their
whole
code base to accommodate Vista. And one of the main things that
bugs me
about THAT is that CUSTOMERS have to buy new products every time
that
happens. That is a disturbing trend for alot of people. Some
people have
invested ALOT of money on apps and hardware. To think they would
have to
abandon those and upgrade "just because" is worrisome at best. You
are
probably also aware that MS has been in trouble with the law for
"not
playing nice" with other companies. They have been sued and LOST in
some
huge lawsuits, but now the same things are happening over again. As
people
have pointed out, Vista is having similar problems to XP. Is this a
business model for them now?

Abusive? How about your post yesterday in windowsxp.general where
your
clock was off. A person replied letting you know this, and your
response
was to call him a dumb*ss. Your reaction was to ridicule him
claiming it
was because you were in a different time zone, when in reality you
were the
one with the misunderstanding about how message times are
displayed, and you
were, in fact, posting from the future.

Which I promptly apologized for after realizing I made a mistake,
even
BEFORE you chastised me. You obviously didn't read his abusive
condescending previous post, which prompted my remark. I was
retaliating,
not initiating.

From my perspective there WAS no future posting. The date and time
were
completely accurate. As you have doubtfully seen, there is a
legitimate
problem with the time servers. The time servers have been having
difficulty
due to the unusual time change this year. It certainly wasn't my
fault that
the time changed differently this year and caused problems.

He falsely accused me of deliberately future posting (which came out
of
nowhere by the way. There was absolutely no reason for it). He
didn't
simply say "you are future posting" like you did, he attacked me
first. He
was not merely pointing out the the time was wrong, he was accusing
me of
doing it on purpose, which is ridiculous.

He is one of the very helpful regular posters in that newsgroup.
Did he
deserve that - just because he wanted to let you know of a problem
of which
you might not be aware?

I certainly haven't seen that. Before your tirade, I considered him
to be
one of the more abusive posters. It can be very subtle, but is
there
nonetheless.

You are abusive to the poor soul who comes in here with a problem
when you
ridicule their predicament by posting your garbage. They come here
for
help, not to hear you spout a personal agenda. Why take it out on
them?

Have you read between the lines of most of these posts? They are
unhappy
wihth the performance of these products.

If you really want to help someone you must first sympathize.

It would be one thing if you simply kept to stating an opinion
about Vista
and MS. There are plenty of folks in here who do that, and I
respect their
right to it. But you don't. You take it out on the innocent folks posting
here for help. That is the height of abusiveness.

How so? How am I "taking it out" on "innocent folks"? I don't even
see how
you think I am abusing people anymore than most of the people that
post
here. I don't even really see how you think I am "abusing" people
here.
How am I abusing them? I AM stating opinions about Vista and MS,
not
personally attacking people.

You changed your posting name to misrepresent yourself as an MVP.
That
shows a lack of integrity, and in my assessment isn't very smart.
Why can't
you let your opinions stand on their own?

I'm demonstrating the absurdity of the "MVP". I actually did read
through
these newgroups for awhile before posting and MOST of the "MVP's"
here
either give bad advice (yes I've seen it, including you just today)
and/or
are abusive to innocent people for no reason. One of the posters
asked a
legitimate question about one of the "MVP's" posts regarding the
time server
problem and you had to tear him a new one. That was not called for.
Some
of the MVP's basically have the opinion the the person asking the
question
is "dumb" and wonders why the person would even ask that question.
I don't
track everyones posts, but I could easily find more examples.

I find the proposition interesting that it's ok for a poster to
lie,
intentionally mislead, misrepresent, and take it out on innocent
third
parties, but when someone who happens to have an MVP designation
stands up
against it, that gets labeled as abusive or rude.

You or anyone else is welcome to "stand up against it". I'm not
debating
that you have a right to correct things. You are putting words into
my
mouth (or typing them, hehe). I'm not even really sure at what
point you
thought I was against "peer review". As I said, prior to that ONE
event, I
hadn't personally attacked others, yet in their wisdom many "MVP's"
saw fit
to attack me PERSONALLY. It wasn't enough to simply call me a troll
and
tell people not to listen. They could have siomply said the
information was
false (if it actually was, but thats another story) and provided
correct
info. I've joked about a few things that I would think any
reasonable
person could see through. I guess Ill have to specify that I'm
joking.

What I wrote in this thread that has engendered this discussion was actually
in a reply to another party. It was not directed to you nor an
attack on
you. I simply stated my opinion that "He's not very good at being
a troll
either. More than a bit stupid." All this is in reference to your
on going
behavior. You got called on what you do, and you don't like it.
That's too
bad.

"More than a bit stupid"? How is that not an attack? I haven't
even
attacked YOU directly, yet you see fit to attack ME. Prior to this
rant, I
was beginning to acknowledge that you may have been one of the
people
"above" all of this. FYI I don't' recall anything I've said prior
to now
has had anything to do with you personally or that you were giving
bad
advice.

Compare the tenor in this newsgroup to windowsxp.general, for
example, where
you have also done some trolling. It's much different there, in
spite of
the occasional posts by you and a few others. The focus is much
more on
users helping users In here there is so much more of the trolling,
by the
Mac advocates, the Linux folks and those who just feel like they
want to
mess with MS, much of it at the expense of the person who had the
audacity
to ask for help.

Do the trolls care about them? They make little of their plight,
make fun
of it. Why? Just because it's a new OS and some people have a
personal
agenda against MS?

Hey, let's be honest, Microsoft IS to blame for alot of this. I'm
sure you
know that they have HIRED people to come here and ADVOCATE Microsoft
products. That's amazing to me. People NEED to know that and there
ought
to be a counter to that (people telling the truth that MS isn't
perfect).

If MS HRIES people to come here, they must be monitoring these
groups for
product ideas and problems. I've heard they even deliberately harass
people
to see what matters most to them based on how they respond.

People saying Ohhh, MS is so great, no problems! That isn't going
to fix or
change anything. As I've mentioned Ive been in this industry over
12 years
and I have seen it progressively slide downhill because of dumb
things that
could be fixed. People are astounded by the activation issue in my
experience (spare the lecture about piracy). MS got where it is due
to
casual copying so people could try before they bought). I am
astounded that
MS can't get it right after all their experience. There is no
longer
justification for reinventing the wheel every few years and coming
out with
a whole new product that doesn't work with the old stuff. People
have too
much time and money invested now (not to mention large companies
with
hundreds or thousands of PCs) to continually play the MS upgrade
game.

I recently had to provide a driver for an older DVD drive just to
install
Vista! That is absurd! One can't even GET older drivers for some
hardware.
Previous versions of Windows didn't even NEED drivers for CD/DVD
drives.

 

[MVP]

There was a 5 year time gap between the release of XP and Vista. One of the
longest gaps in the MS OS release cycle. It's about time for change, and
time for changes in the security model.

And the promise was that Vista would work properly and address many
concerns. Given the long gap, one would think that the thing would actually
work. Judging in part by the many posts here, Vista is still in near-Beta
form. Perhaps what people are angry about is false advertising.

That hardware manufacturer's don't support legacy hardware with new drivers
is nothing new to the release of Vista. I happens with every OS release.

In previous releases though, MS integrated support for "legacy" products.
If you bought a new OS, you could be certain that it had integrated support
for older devices. The idea has pretty much always been that manufacturers
only need supply drivers if their products come out after the release of the
OS. This has been true since the advent of computers. This has apparently
changed with Vista. Now there is NO assumption that ANY hardware will work.

Some vendors are not even supporting some of their latest hardware releases.
This is there responsibility, not MS's. The vendors have had a long to to
get ready for this. It's not an issue of time, it's an issue of not wanting
to.

I would say it IS Microsoft's responsibility to support MOST recent hardware
that existed before Vista. If need be, they could integrate XP drivers to
insure that. Vista can't be THAT different underneath.

The software vendors have only themselves to blame. They have lost their
creativity. MS tried to get them to move away from coding software that
needs admin privileges. But they stick to what's easiest for them. Now
Vista is forcing that issue, and the software vendors have to change. Yes I
blame them for it.

Well, there I certainly must disagree with you. THey HAD to switch to admin
privileges BECAUSE of MS.
Now MS is saying to switch again. This is MS to blame. I remember when
2000 came out and the whole security model changed. Only SW with Admin
prilges would work and so vendors had to change since MOST of the software
didn't work. Now MS expects everyone to change back? What do you expect
companies to think? It is more a matter of not wanting to be bullied by MS.
Many companies have spent untold vast sums of money and man hours creating
their software and now MS says: "Change". It isn't so easy.

Doesn't matter what your perspective was. You were posting from the

future.
Lol, yes it does matter what my perspective was.

What you could say that I would take as a true statement is that you didn't
know it or intend it, but you were.

Huh? Not sure about the grammar there, but I did not intend it. And
anyway, what the hell did it matter? The world won't end because someones
post is an hour off. That's just being anal for no reason.

What got you p*ssed was that he called
you on your abuse of the Microsoft MVP designation by falsely
misrepresenting who you are. Here is the quote of his post, to refresh your
memory.

"Mr.Microsoft MVP

"You are posting in the future, Your time is off. Pretty stupid from a
wanabee pretending."

There is nothing untrue in what Peter wrote. I don't see this as an attack,
nor even an direct accusation that you were doing something intentionlly.

How do you not see that?

You were posting from the future and your time was off. What got you is
that he called you on your lack of integrity. And the fact remains, whether
you knew about it or not, that you were in fact posting from the future.
Here is your response to him.

My point was that he could have simply said: "Hey, you are posting in the
future, your time is off."
And left it at that.

"Lol, HUH? WTF are you talking about? I'm in the Eastern time zone and
it
"IS in fact 1 AM at the moment and it IS April 4, 2007. Damn you're
dumb.
"Maybe you are in a diff time zone? Ever think of that one dumbass?"

I see a big difference between your two posts. And on top of it, it had
nothing to do with your time zone. For the record you never apologized _to
him_. Another falsehood of yours.

We've already been over this.

After I pointed out that you were posting in the future and gave you the
relative times, here is your reply to me:

"I probably shouldn't have called him a dumbass (even though he started
it),
"sorry.
"I'm starting to gain some respect for some people here (not Peter).
There
"are some intelligent responses, esp. Rock."

This post of yours was in a reply to me, not to Peter. You apologized, but
to me, not to Peter. And your contention that Peter is "one of the more
abusive posters" is fantasy.

I don't recall saying I aplogized to him. There would be no need after the
"stupid" remark. He is perfectly within his right to call me on things, but
if he goes negative (which he did on his own), then I have no obligation to
apologize.
I apologized for the statement in general to the other people who may have
read it. He can read.


We've already been over the rest of it.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"If you bought a new OS, you could be certain that it had integrated
support for older devices."
FALSE.
Either you forget Windows XP and other operating systems or you simply
were not around.
When Windows XP was released, there were similar problems with
hardware and software.
Some still have not changed and continue to make new versions ignoring
proper security practices.
Intuit is one IIRC.
Perhaps all of your hardware worked as mine did, but that does not
mean all did.

"I would say it IS Microsoft's responsibility to support MOST recent
hardware"
Sounds good but is simply not practical since Microsoft is not the
expert on the hardware.
If the hardware manufacturers want their hardware to work for their
customers, they need to do whatever is necessary to make it work.
Have you contacted the manufacturer of your hardware?
What did they say?

"Vista can't be THAT different underneath"
Yes in some ways.
You seem to be assuming otherwise.
Remember what it means to assume?

And you continue in your deceptions in attempting to show others you
are a Microsoft MVP.
The attempted deception shows your character.

 

[Richard Urban]

And, this ***PHONY*** MVP, who tries to come across as knowing so much about
Vista, is still posting via Windows XP.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

And, this ***PHONY*** MVP, who tries to come across as knowing so much about
Vista, is still posting via Windows XP.

And I on 98SE. ;-)

 

[MVP]

Yeah, cuz at least XP actually works.

And, this ***PHONY*** MVP, who tries to come across as knowing so much about
Vista, is still posting via Windows XP.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[MVP]

This coming from a guy called Jupiter? Either your parents hate you or you
are using an alias, just as I am.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

But mine is not one that can deceive others as yours.
Apparently you chose yours to deceive those new and unfamiliar the
newsgroups, much like a character who goes by the name "Administrator"
in another newsgroup.
Both of you are doing whatever you can to attempt to add more
credibility to your already weak posts.
If that were not true, both of you would would use something not
designed to deceive others.
But you are unable to change.

"Either your parents hate..."
Totally irrelevant and shows the low level you feel you need to go.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org

 

[Mellowed]

Gees. Are you still whining?? You're worse than a frustrated old lady.

 

[Anthony Lisanti]

I think the problem for the most part, is crappy systems. I've always
built my systems using good brand name stuff. I've never had a
problem. If there was it's because a older software package did not
work with the new OS.

You can always go with Linux, and Open-Office.

That works, and you dont have to pay for it.

 

[Guest]

I can't believe this operating system sucks so bad! Why are there so many
posts here? Why are people having so many problems? Why can 't Microsoft
make products that work the first time? Why have a beta program if all
these problems still happen?

Microsuck Vista- The new Windows 98.

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

Microsuck Vista- The new Windows 98.

Windows 98 was (is for many) a small miracle compared to the
"implanted chip" workings of VISTA as a spy tool and profile
builder on its users.... you may as well go get the human ID
chip embedded in your skull right now as to use VISTA.

 

[Net Spaceman]

On my demo unit a brand new clean install for a computer designed for Vista
(A-Open mini)
1. Explorer stops working, refuses to open
2. refuses to update
3. critical updates,
4. refuses to download updstes,
5. refuses to connect to wired network,
6. side bar crashes,
7. for no apparent reason reboots constantly,
8. blue screen,
9. Windows recovered from "critical error" message.
These are a few of the messages/things that happen with regularity and my
experience with Vista is so in the toilet. This is the 3rd time I wiped the
disk and reinstalled it fresh and clean.

I encourage all my customers to steer clear of Vista in any form, it is the
biggest piece of crap, garbage, junk, (#%$@*&) and can not be redeemed. I
sold 2 computers with vista, and Never Never Never Again.

Oh, one good thing. INK, nice game

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

Maybe your demo unit is faulty?

 

[Tom Ferguson]

Very courageous of you. If I were in that business and gave that advice, I
would be concerned what potential customers who did not know me or of me and
my skill set would think. Possibly, that I had neither the knowledge or
skill to put together a computer that works well with a given operating
system. Possibly, that I did not know how to set the system up properly.

Probably, you have ways of dealing with such potential situations. And those
oh-so-cute-and-clever Apple TV spots would help, I suppose. Still, every
time a potential customer walked away, I would wonder.

All that notwithstanding, it is true that a different OS, e.g XP or possibly
even Unix or Linux, is a better fit for some customers. In particular, there
are those whose need is only satisfied by hardware that is not yet supported
by its maker in Vista. Also, there is a limited group who must use an
application not yet released in a Vista-compatible version.

Tom
MSMVP 1998-2007

 

[Lynncomp]

Hi, you should know that NOT how it works. Microsoft releases new OS,
software vendors update their programs. Vista Beta was out for a year at
least, they had time to release an update. Some smaller companies don't feel
its worth the time, and still have not updated since Vista has been out 2
years already. The fact is Microsoft can not cater to every software vendor,
its up to the software vendor to take the time to update their software. Not
saying its right, but thats the way its always been and will be. What really
amazes me the lack of support for 64bit cpus, they are really dragging on
that for updates if needed.

Doug
www.lynncomp.com
NASA system integrator

 

[Long Time MS Developer and Musician]

I am a MS developer. I have been developing using MS products since Wnidows
3.1, and I have defended it against all the MS bashers as faithfully as
anyone defends their religion.

Then I bought Vista. What a piece of crap. I had a new computer capable of
running circles around anything, but it would't run anything. MS support gave
me a hard time because I didn't like it. I finally got that junk off my new
system and put XP on it. Now I have the computer of my dreams. But....

Beacuse of the Vista episode, I decided to give Linux another look. And
guess what, it looks GOOD now. Fact is, XGL makes Vista look like a joke. As
a long-time MS developer, I can seriously say I am interested. I am taking
that old box I replaced and setting it up as a Linux box. I am gathering
software needed now. I can set up a small network and have my Windows box act
as a web server for my intranet, and do all my development on a Linux box. It
is promising enough to devote time to. And the end user software looks good
to. And there are emulaters available to allow you to run Windows products
inside Linux, so I can still use my Photoshop and Cakewalk.

Because as a developer, I spend most of my time in an ASCII editor. As fas
as word processing, I can use WordPerfect as easily as Word, I am not in them
that much, and half my clients use the Windows version anyway. And one
spreadsheet is as good as the next. And since databases don't matter (SQL
Passthru), there is no reason to put up with a faulty OS anymore.

And yes, I am still pissed about buying a highly praised piece of crap
(Vista) and being snubbed by MS staff because I didn't like. And I DON'T LIKE
THE DIRECTION MS is headed.