Vista Public Beta 2 Feedback

[Guest]

I am a software developer and have recently downloaded Vista Beta 2 build
5384 x64 edition. I have experienced a number of issues with Vista which
marred the experience:

1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the
keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my Dell
USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.

2. The display settings UI does not seem well thought out. The initial user
interface presents a page of hyper-links to different settings which looks
good. When you actually click on say the "Display Settings" link, it doesn't
take you to a new page which you can navigate with the forward and back
buttons like you'd expect a hyperlink to, instead it pops up a dialog of
settings similar to the old Windows XP Display property sheet. The new Vista
UI is supposed to use a browser style interface - why is it mixing metaphores
like this?

3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon with
Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating 3)
and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity) is
unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta NVIDIA
drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and flickery
due to the selective lack of double-buffering.

4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
good as it puts a strain on them.

5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
one just to change the date and time? The UI is still too verbose and is
constantly assaulting the user with dialogs ("Did you notice the Information
Bar!!!!", etc.).

6. Multiple monitor support seems messed up - I was not able to set my LCD
panel to use its highest res (1024x768). Whenever I tried, the settings
would reset, my LCD would set itself back to 800x600 and my CRT would become
the secondary monitor instead of the primary monitor like it is supposed to
be. Maybe this is a problem with the beta NVIDIA drivers?

7. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
"Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the top
as it one of the most frequently used items.

8. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu is
awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires much
more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the old
hierarchical menu system.

9. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation system.
Is this something I have to turn on? The borders on the edges of windows are
too narrow and when one window is overlaid on another, it is hard to
distinguise where one window ends and the other begins (not helped by the
"Aero Glass" opacity effect).

Personally I think MS still has a lot of work to do on this release (yeah, I
know - it's still a beta). The UI is starting to grow on me, though. It
doesn't seem to have the ton of overused flashy 3-D animations I was
expecting (mostly just subtle things like the scale-down window minimisation
animation), but this is probably a good thing.

 

[Guest]

I am a software developer and have recently downloaded Vista Beta 2 build
5384 x64 edition. I have experienced a number of issues with Vista which
marred the experience:

1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the
keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my Dell
USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.

I did not have this problem. I used a Microsoft USB Intellimouse optical
and it recognized it just fine and worked well.

2. The display settings UI does not seem well thought out. The initial user
interface presents a page of hyper-links to different settings which looks
good. When you actually click on say the "Display Settings" link, it doesn't
take you to a new page which you can navigate with the forward and back
buttons like you'd expect a hyperlink to, instead it pops up a dialog of
settings similar to the old Windows XP Display property sheet. The new Vista
UI is supposed to use a browser style interface - why is it mixing metaphores
like this?

3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon with
Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating 3)
and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity) is
unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta NVIDIA
drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and flickery
due to the selective lack of double-buffering.

Since this is beta and you say you are a software developer, wouldn't you
realize there is probably some debug code and other processes running that
will not be there in the final?

4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
good as it puts a strain on them.

5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
one just to change the date and time? The UI is still too verbose and is
constantly assaulting the user with dialogs ("Did you notice the Information
Bar!!!!", etc.).

I am starting to agree with this statement. When I was in my Users folder
and trying to open the Pictures Folder, it said I was denied. Yet, I went to
the left hand side and clicked on the Pictures quick link and it went right
inside the Pictures folder.

6. Multiple monitor support seems messed up - I was not able to set my LCD
panel to use its highest res (1024x768). Whenever I tried, the settings
would reset, my LCD would set itself back to 800x600 and my CRT would become
the secondary monitor instead of the primary monitor like it is supposed to
be. Maybe this is a problem with the beta NVIDIA drivers?

7. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
"Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the top
as it one of the most frequently used items.

Again I agree, but I think they (MS) are gearing people to use the search
feature on the bottom of the start panel. This will in turn get people used
to the idea of using search for everything on their computer.

8. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu is
awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires much
more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the old
hierarchical menu system.

9. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation system.
Is this something I have to turn on? The borders on the edges of windows are
too narrow and when one window is overlaid on another, it is hard to
distinguise where one window ends and the other begins (not helped by the
"Aero Glass" opacity effect).

Did you try the Windows key + Tab button? I have an Inspiron 6000 with a
Radeon x300 and it worked just fine.

 

[Guest]

I am a software developer and have recently downloaded Vista Beta 2 build
5384 x64 edition. I have experienced a number of issues with Vista which
marred the experience:

1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the
keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my Dell
USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.

I did not have this problem. I used a Microsoft USB Intellimouse optical
and it recognized it just fine and worked well.

2. The display settings UI does not seem well thought out. The initial user
interface presents a page of hyper-links to different settings which looks
good. When you actually click on say the "Display Settings" link, it doesn't
take you to a new page which you can navigate with the forward and back
buttons like you'd expect a hyperlink to, instead it pops up a dialog of
settings similar to the old Windows XP Display property sheet. The new Vista
UI is supposed to use a browser style interface - why is it mixing metaphores
like this?

3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon with
Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating 3)
and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity) is
unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta NVIDIA
drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and flickery
due to the selective lack of double-buffering.

Since this is beta and you say you are a software developer, wouldn't you
realize there is probably some debug code and other processes running that
will not be there in the final?

4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
good as it puts a strain on them.

5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
one just to change the date and time? The UI is still too verbose and is
constantly assaulting the user with dialogs ("Did you notice the Information
Bar!!!!", etc.).

I am starting to agree with this statement. When I was in my Users folder
and trying to open the Pictures Folder, it said I was denied. Yet, I went to
the left hand side and clicked on the Pictures quick link and it went right
inside the Pictures folder.

6. Multiple monitor support seems messed up - I was not able to set my LCD
panel to use its highest res (1024x768). Whenever I tried, the settings
would reset, my LCD would set itself back to 800x600 and my CRT would become
the secondary monitor instead of the primary monitor like it is supposed to
be. Maybe this is a problem with the beta NVIDIA drivers?

7. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
"Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the top
as it one of the most frequently used items.

Again I agree, but I think they (MS) are gearing people to use the search
feature on the bottom of the start panel. This will in turn get people used
to the idea of using search for everything on their computer.

8. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu is
awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires much
more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the old
hierarchical menu system.

9. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation system.
Is this something I have to turn on? The borders on the edges of windows are
too narrow and when one window is overlaid on another, it is hard to
distinguise where one window ends and the other begins (not helped by the
"Aero Glass" opacity effect).

Did you try the Windows key + Tab button? I have an Inspiron 6000 with a
Radeon x300 and it worked just fine.

 

[Guest]

1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the

keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my Dell
USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.

I did not have this problem. I used a Microsoft USB Intellimouse optical
and it recognized it just fine and worked well.

3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon with
Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating 3)
and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity) is
unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta NVIDIA
drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and flickery
due to the selective lack of double-buffering.

Since this is beta and you say you are a software developer, wouldn't you
realize there is probably some debug code and other processes running that
will not be there in the final?

4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
good as it puts a strain on them.

5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
one just to change the date and time? The UI is still too verbose and is
constantly assaulting the user with dialogs ("Did you notice the Information
Bar!!!!", etc.).

I am starting to agree with this statement. When I was in my Users folder
and trying to open the Pictures Folder, it said I was denied. Yet, I went to
the left hand side and clicked on the Pictures quick link and it went right
inside the Pictures folder.

7. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
"Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the top
as it one of the most frequently used items.

Again I agree, but I think they (MS) are gearing people to use the search
feature on the bottom of the start panel. This will in turn get people used
to the idea of using search for everything on their computer.

8. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu is
awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires much
more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the old
hierarchical menu system.

9. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation system.
Is this something I have to turn on? The borders on the edges of windows are
too narrow and when one window is overlaid on another, it is hard to
distinguise where one window ends and the other begins (not helped by the
"Aero Glass" opacity effect).

Did you try the Windows key + Tab button? I have an Inspiron 6000 with a
Radeon x300 and it worked just fine.

 

[Guest]

I did not have this problem. I used a Microsoft USB Intellimouse optical
and it recognized it just fine and worked well.

If it's just a bug, that's absolutely fine. I've reported it using the
Vista feedback webpage, anyway.

Since this is beta and you say you are a software developer, wouldn't you
realize there is probably some debug code and other processes running that
will not be there in the final?

Not really - MS build separate "Checked" (i.e., Debug) and "Free" (i.e.,
Release) builds. The checked build has all the debug code and runtime checks
turned on, the free build is supposed to be built with optimisations and have
all the debug checks turned off. As it's a public beta, I rather doubt MS is
shipping the Checked build to ordinary users.

Now - I've no idea if, nevertheless, the code is horribly unoptimised or
some debug processes are running which will not be part of the final version.
The purpose of the beta is to solicit feedback and I don't see the point of
not commenting about performance problems. If the problems go away with the
removal of debug code then I doubt anyone at MS will have suffered long-term
emotional damage from such complaints, and if the problems are more deep
rooted - they need to have an idea of how good/bad the user's experience with
OS is on different hardware.

I am starting to agree with this statement. When I was in my Users folder
and trying to open the Pictures Folder, it said I was denied. Yet, I went to
the left hand side and clicked on the Pictures quick link and it went right
inside the Pictures folder.

Yep - happened to me too!

Again I agree, but I think they (MS) are gearing people to use the search
feature on the bottom of the start panel. This will in turn get people used
to the idea of using search for everything on their computer.

The search thing is fine, but if I already know where the program is
(usually case) then typing in a query is much slower than quickly stepping
through a hierarchical menu. I don't see any point in making the "All
Programs" item harder to use - it doesn't make the search box easier to use
as a side benefit!

Did you try the Windows key + Tab button? I have an Inspiron 6000 with a
Radeon x300 and it worked just fine.

Yeah - didn't realise it had a different key combination from Alt-Tab.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

You are correct. It has been available in the TechBeta program and the TAP
programs. It is not publically available.