Vista & Dual Boot

G

Guest

Screwed up something here...

Just bought a Dell Inspiron 1720. I wanted to dual boot, so I reformatted
and then repartitioned HD to two ~80GB drives. Then I tried to install Vista
on one of the partitions. It goes thru the intial sequence, loads the files,
and when it gets to the "Completing Installation" after one reboot, it NEVER
stops. The periods keep dropping in and then doing away...I have let it sit
for hours to no avail. When I try to reboot in SAFE MODE, it loads up to
crcinfo.??? or something like that and then it sits trying to load the next
file for a while without actually finishing.

HELP!! What now?
 
T

Timothy Daniels

Nuwanda said:
Just bought a Dell Inspiron 1720. I wanted to dual boot,
so I reformatted and then repartitioned HD to two ~80GB
drives. Then I tried to install Vista on one of the partitions.


Did you use an installation DVD or Dell's re-load-a-clone
DVD?

*TimDaniels*
 
T

Timothy Daniels

Nuwanda said:
Dell DVD.

Well, that's probably what's wrong - the DVD (which is
not an OS installer) is trying to restore an image of a partition
that is twice the size available to it. You can restore the
original single partition by deleting the 2nd partition and then
running the Dell DVD to restore the contents of the single
empty partition, and then downsize it with something like
Partition Magic to get rid of enough unused space to
accomodate a 2nd partition. Then create the 2nd partition
again for Vista and install Vista onto it. Someone else here
may have a suggestion for a cheaper partition adjusting utility
or even a free one.

*TimDaniels*
 
R

R. C. White

Hi, Tim.
Someone else here
may have a suggestion for a cheaper partition adjusting utility
or even a free one.

Yep. Just use the one included in Vista (and WinXP and Win2K, too): Disk
Management. Several ways to get to it; my favorite is to enter
diskmgmt.msc. You can also right-click Computer | Manage | Disk Management.
You'll need to furnish Administrator credentials, of course.

The Vista version of DM includes the Shrink volume command. So just shrink
the existing volume to make room for the new one. (While you are in DM, but
sure to NAME each volume. The name will be written onto the hard drive and
won't change later, as the drive LETTERS probably will; see below.)

But remember that, even if you have two operating systems installed (WinXP
and Vista), each with its own \Windows folder in its own "boot volume",
there will be only a single "system volume" - probably the first partition
on the first hard drive - and Vista Setup will write the startup files
(including the dual-boot menu) to THAT partition, not the one where Vista
will be installed. Vista will leave WinXP's boot-up files (NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) in place there and will also make a copy of the
WinXP boot sector. Then it will write its own boot sector and startup files
(bootmgr and the hidden \Boot folder) onto that partition, too. On future
startups, the Vista boot sector will start the boot process, then present
the choice of Vista or the Previous operating system. If you choose
Previous, it will load the WinXP boot sector and turn control over to it to
load WinXP; otherwise, it will continue booting Vista.

The terms "boot volume" and "system volume" are used backwards from what
most users expect; for details, see:
Definitions for system volume and boot volume
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/314470/EN-US/

If you install Vista by booting into WinXP and running Vista Setup from
there, Vista will inherit the drive letters that WinXP is using, most likely
C: for the system partition, which is also WinXP's boot volume, and D: for
Vista's boot volume. But if you install by booting from the Vista DVD, it
won't know WinXP's drive letter assignments, so it will assign C: to its own
boot volume (the second partition), forcing the first partition to become D:
or some other letter. The computer will not be confused by these changing
letters, but the humans running it might be. :^{

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail beta in Vista Ultimate x64)
 
G

Guest

All,
I guess I need to clarify...I cannot use ANYTHING on Vista...it will not
finish the reinstall process...it never gets out of the "Completing
Installation" portion. I did use the install DVD to erase all the
partitions and try a fresh install to no avail. So I am back to no Windows.
I could try an old copy of XP, but the Dell-Vista DVD says it does not do
upgrade, so I am still sitting without Vista on my laptop.

Nuwanda
 
G

Guest

But remember that, even if you have two operating systems installed
(WinXP and Vista), each with its own \Windows folder in its own "boot
volume", there will be only a single "system volume" - probably the first
partition on the first hard drive - and Vista Setup will write the startup
files (including the dual-boot menu) to THAT partition, not the one where
Vista will be installed. Vista will leave WinXP's boot-up files (NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) in place there and will also make a copy of the
WinXP boot sector. Then it will write its own boot sector and startup files
(bootmgr and the hidden \Boot folder) onto that partition, too. On future
startups, the Vista boot sector will start the boot process, then present the
choice of Vista or the Previous operating system. If you choose Previous, it
will load the WinXP boot sector and turn control over to it to load WinXP;
otherwise, it will continue booting Vista.

If I understand you correctly though, I need a separate 10GB or so
partitioned as the install partition from which Vista will install the
operating system on another partition. Is that what you are saying. Is that
why the computer came with a 10GB partition from Dell called something like
"backup"? lol..I thought it was like the old HP/Compaq's that had the
operating system install all on the hard drive...oops!

Nuwanda
 
R

R. C. White

Hi, Nuwanda.
If I understand you correctly though, I need a separate 10GB or so
partitioned as the install partition from which Vista will install the
operating system on another partition. Is that what you are saying.

No. You can start with a virgin hard disk, boot from the Vista DVD-ROM, and
let Vista Setup handle everything, including creating and formatting at
least one partition on that disk, and then installing Vista directly from
the DVD to that single new partition.

But that is NOT your situation. First, as I understand, your hard disk was
NOT virgin, even when you first got the new computer from Dell. It already
had that hidden 10 GB partition that Dell created. This is where Dell
stores its proprietary information that you will need if you ever want to
restore your computer to its original configuration. And Dell had already
created another partition - good old Drive C: - using all your hard disk
space except for that 10 GB, and had factory-installed WinXP into that Drive
C:. I've never had a Dell, so I have no idea what might be on that special
partition.

Also, your Subject says "Vista & Dual Boot". This seems to mean that you do
NOT want to wipe out your factory-installed WinXP, but to ADD Vista to what
you already have. This is not unheard-of; not even very unusual. I and
MANY other users have been dual-booting (actually multi-booting, sometimes
with a half-dozen or more operating systems installed) for a decade or more.
THAT's what I was trying to explain in my previous post.

You may have gone too far to turn back now. Have you already wiped out your
original WinXP? And all your applications and data that you don't have
backed up elsewhere? If so, then here's how to start over and get from here
to a WinXP/Vista dual-boot system:

First, restore your original WinXP, as installed by Dell. I've never done
this, but your computer's instruction manual should tell you how to use your
Dell recovery disk to get back to the "new" condition. This probably will
recreate the original large Drive C: (160 GB?), but if you have an option to
make the partition install smaller, use that.

(My earlier comments about using Disk Management to shrink the volume won't
work in WinXP, so you'll need PM or some other utility to do this, after
all. As I said, the Shrink volume function was added to DM in Vista, so
you'll have a chicken-and-egg problem.)

With whatever tool you have, make room for the second partition. Then you
can either create that second partition ahead of time, or you can let Vista
Setup create and format it as a part of the Vista installation process.

Second, install Vista into that second partition. (As I noted, Vista's few
startup files - bootmgr and the \Boot folder - will still go to the Root of
the first partition, alongside WinXP's startup files, but all the rest
(probably more than 10 GB) of the files will go to the second partition when
you choose that from Vista Setup's menu. Vista Setup will automatically
adjust the startup files on the first partition to present the "which OS do
you want" menu at each reboot. If you choose WinXP, that menu will turn
over control to the WinXP startup files and WinXP won't know that Vista
exists - except for all the disk space used by those files in Vista's
\Windows folder on the second partition. If you choose Vista for the
current session, Vista will run and WinXP's \Windows folder on the first
partition will be "just another folder" to Vista.

If you have a full retail copy of Vista, you can either boot into WinXP and
run Vista Setup from there, or you can boot from the Vista retail DVD to run
Setup. If you have a retail Upgrade disk, then you MUST run Setup from
within WinXP, not by booting from the Vista DVD. If you have a Dell version
of the Vista DVD, then I have no idea what restrictions might apply.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail beta in Vista Ultimate x64)

Nuwanda said:
But remember that, even if you have two operating systems
installed
(WinXP and Vista), each with its own \Windows folder in its own "boot
volume", there will be only a single "system volume" - probably the first
partition on the first hard drive - and Vista Setup will write the startup
files (including the dual-boot menu) to THAT partition, not the one where
Vista will be installed. Vista will leave WinXP's boot-up files (NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) in place there and will also make a copy of the
WinXP boot sector. Then it will write its own boot sector and startup
files
(bootmgr and the hidden \Boot folder) onto that partition, too. On future
startups, the Vista boot sector will start the boot process, then present
the
choice of Vista or the Previous operating system. If you choose Previous,
it
will load the WinXP boot sector and turn control over to it to load WinXP;
otherwise, it will continue booting Vista.

If I understand you correctly though, I need a separate 10GB or so
partitioned as the install partition from which Vista will install the
operating system on another partition. Is that what you are saying. Is
that
why the computer came with a 10GB partition from Dell called something
like
"backup"? lol..I thought it was like the old HP/Compaq's that had the
operating system install all on the hard drive...oops!

Nuwanda
 
T

Timothy Daniels

Are you sure about the Vista Update procedure? When I updated
from Win98 to WinXP, all I had to do was boot from the WinXP
CD and when it asked for evidence of a previous Windows OS,.I
put the Win98 CD in the CD drive, which made the installer happy,
and then I removed the Win98 CD and replaced it with the WinXP
CD, and off it went to do the installation. So just seeing the Win98
CD was enough and Win98 didn't have to be running. Does Vista
Update now have to see a running Windows OS?

*TimDaniels*
 
R

R. C. White

Hi, Tim.

As Paul said, Yes. The Vista rules are different from the WinXP rules.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail beta in Vista Ultimate x64)
 
G

Guest

All,

Thanks for your help. I finally figured out my problem. VISTA does not
inherently recognize my SATA hard drive. I had to use a separate drivers CD
to install the SATA driver during the first part of the VISTA install.

In case you are wondering, it came with VISTA. I wanted to dual boot with
OpenSUSE for work, so I wiped the hard drive like four times to finally get
it to the final configuration.

Happy computing to all...
 
R

R. C. White

Hi, Nuwanda.

Congratulations! And thanks for the report back.

We've been fighting this problem of installing Windows on the newest
state-of-the-art hard drives since Win2K and SCSI, at least. :>( Until
Vista, we called it the 7B problem and advised the F6 solution. That was
because, while the Win2K/XP CD-ROM contained enough smarts to handle the new
drives after we booted from the CD to start the install and get through the
text-based phase of Setup, including copying many files to that hard drive,
once that phase was done and we tried for the first time to actually boot
from that hard drive, we would get a BSOD with the Stop Code: 0x7B,
Incompatible_Boot_Device. The only solution was to first get the drivers
for that HD onto a floppy, then watch for the easily-overlooked instruction
during the early part of Setup to "Press <F6> if you need to install mass
storage drivers". If we pressed F6 in time, the installation would
eventually halt with instructions for how to install the drivers from the
floppy. Once that was done, Setup would continue, including booting from
the HD into the GUI phase.

Now, instead of Win2K and SCSI, we often have to fight a similar battle with
Vista and SATA. :>( Many SATA drives are handled properly by on-disk
drivers, but new drives are continually introduced and the DVD is static, so
sometimes we have to fight through the headaches that you have experienced.

I've never even experimented with Linux or other non-Microsoft operating
system (since OS/2, at least), so I don't know how they handle such
problems.

Now, enjoy! ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail beta 2 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 beta v.275)
 

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