Version 2.0 of the Auto FE Updater

  • Thread starter Tony Toews [MVP]
  • Start date
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
But I'm setting up the workstations for them, so I'm going from
machine to machine running the utility to get the shortcut on the
desktop. If I could get the wizard to run, I could select the INI
file and run it to create the desktop shortcut.

Now, obviously, in large organizations, this wouldn't be helpful.
But I was at the client last Friday setting it up and there were 4
workstations to set up. The first was the one I created the INI
files on, but the other three required me to pass the full
commandline. I guess, obviously, I could have created a shortcut or
batch file on the server to run the thing without launching the
wizard, but I was expecting EASE OF USE, which meant that I expected
it to behave the same way on the other machines as it did on the one
where I ran it the first time.

Ok, I see where you're coming from. Yes, you could've had the
utility create a shortcut on the server which you could've then
clicked on from each PC.

I'm going to have to think about how to redesign the web pages so it's
clearer on how this works.
I have reached the point in my computer work that I no longer scoff
at voodoo troubleshooting. Sometimes I almost believe I should carry
a live chicken with me and slaughter it and sprinkle its blood in
appropriate places to insure that the computers work correctly.

Hehehe. Or the story I read about 20 years ago about the person who
was told to do the same by his mother for his new car he just
purchased after moving to the USA. He thought about it a while and
decided to drive over an egg.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
It just seems easier to me to have a wildcard, rather than an
arbitrary limit. What happens if I set up 6 workstations?

In future, regardless of what you do with the wizard, I'll likely
just create a batch file to do the job. Or, if I understand how your
wizard INI file works, I'd clear the first workstation, and then the
wizard would run again, no?

Yes, the clear the workstation would do it. But it would've been much
easier to have the utility create a server shortcut and then click on
the shortcut at each workstation.

So I'll think about how to change the website docs to explain this
better.

Tony

--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
Not good. I'll have to do something about that so that the
workstation I used for the setup (which is sometimes an active
workstation) doesn't prompt.

If you remove all workstations from the AutoFEUpdater configuration
file then none of the users will ever get any nag screens.
I have never encountered the type of setup you've implemented with
recording the workstations in the INI file with any other utility or
application, so I don't quite understand what it's trying to
accomplish.

The idea is that there is a developer full time on site who sees and
works with the GUI. Just their workstation would be an entry in
the AutoFEUpdater.INI file.

In your situation just that one workstation was the "master" for a few
minutes.

So I have to update my website and the utility to better reflect your
situation which also happens a lot.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

Salad said:
Didn't you have a .LNK file that was created that one could send to a
person's email?

Yes, assuming David had a laptop available while he's at the client
site and in which he uses Outlook or other MAPI supported email
client..

But he is correct in that his situation where he doesn't necessarily
have email available needs to be explained better. So I've updated
the pages a bit but I'm not at all sure that it's clear enough.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
D

David W. Fenton

Yes, you could've had the
utility create a shortcut on the server which you could've then
clicked on from each PC.

I'm going to have to think about how to redesign the web pages so
it's clearer on how this works.

Um, mumble, mumble, I didn't read the web page...
 
D

David W. Fenton

Yes, assuming David had a laptop available while he's at the
client site and in which he uses Outlook or other MAPI supported
email client..

Neither of those is the case.

Well, Pegasus Mail does MAPI, but not reliably (though the problems
with it are actually the fault of Outlook, which I use as PIM but
not for email).
But he is correct in that his situation where he doesn't
necessarily have email available needs to be explained better. So
I've updated the pages a bit but I'm not at all sure that it's
clear enough.

They could have been brilliantly explained on the web pages and it
would have made no difference, because I didn't read them! I
consider a wizard something that doesn't need instructions -- hence
my confusion when the wizard wouldn't run from the other
workstations..
 
D

David W. Fenton

Hmm...

I've been working with Tony a bit in the area of documentation for
the Auto FE Updater. Your comments caught my attention as
indicating that we may have shortcomings in communication.

I didn't really read the documentation, because I've been using the
updater for nearly 10 years (I think it was back in 2001 that I set
up my first site with it). So, it really wouldn't matter how
well-written it was!

I knew about the wizard interface and since wizards don't require
instructions (they are supposed to walk you through everything you
want to do without any explanation other than what's provided
onscreen or a quick click away from the wizard interface), I didn't
think I needed to read anything. My confusion came from the fact
that in one context the wizard ran and in another it didn't. Now,
that is very likely nicely explained in the documentation, but
because I thought the wizard was going to hold my hand through the
whole process, it never occured to me that it was behaving
differently by design.
Did you notice the bit about creating an email containing a
hyperlink to send the users for the initial launch from user
workstations (as opposed to admin workstations)? I'm curious if
you considered that and rejected that option because of the
simplicity of simply walking around the office to four workstions
and doing the setup yourself; or actually never even noticed that
option.

If I had set it up remotely I would have emailed. But I was right
there onsite and had to visit all the workstations to install A2003,
anyway, so there was no point in using some other method when I
could do it myself. I also wanted it to be as transparent as
possible for the users, and while the email shortcut is easy, it's a
step that's subject to the possibility of something going wrong.
In the short while that I've been working with this utility the
usage that you describe has never even occurred to me --- after
all, one main point of the utility is removing the necessity of
visiting individual workstations for doing the setup.

I had to visit every workstation for other purposes, so I didn't see
any reason to put any of the burden on the users when I could do it
all myself.
To do what you describe, the method of choice would in fact be to
use the wizard to create a shortcut on the server, which you would
then invoke one time only from the user workstations.

I understand this *now*, but at the time, I just shrugged over the
fact that the wizard worked in one situation and not in others. It
was really not that difficult to use START | RUN to run the updater
with the relevant shortcut. Had I any sense at all, I would have
written that shortcut to the server instead of manually recreating
it, but I thought that the wizard might work on the next
workstation.
EASE OF USE ... Ah, the wonderful world of anticipating
expectations
:).

Would you care to suggest what could be done differently in the
writeup to have helped you avoid this bit of frustration?

Put in a password that if the user doesn't read it and provide the
password from the documentation to the the utility then it won't
run?

There's nothing you can do about someone not reading the
documentation.

But perhaps the "error" dialog that pops up could be better
designed. It's really quite monolithic and I didn't really read it,
so even if there'd been hints as to what to do, I would likely have
missed it.

I think the wizard itself is a pretty non-standard UI design (it
looks like something from 1996), and the error dialog is pretty
monolithic. On the other hand, the thing is designed to be used by
tech-savvy users.

But sometimes we are tripped up by knowing too much...
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
Um, mumble, mumble, I didn't read the web page...

<chuckle> Sorry David, I know I shouldn't chuckle but I'm still
chuckling at your reply.

Nevertheless you did bring up a perfectly valid scenario which I
didn't explain well. I was so focused on getting out the very
convenient email solution I hadn't stepped a ways back and considered
other scenarios.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
I
consider a wizard something that doesn't need instructions -- hence
my confusion when the wizard wouldn't run from the other
workstations..

Ah, another good point which I hadn't thought of. I'm off for a week
for family stuff and will think about how to make things clearer in
that error message and the wizard, etc.

Thanks muchly, Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
Now, obviously, in large organizations, this wouldn't be helpful.
But I was at the client last Friday setting it up and there were 4
workstations to set up. The first was the one I created the INI
files on, but the other three required me to pass the full
commandline. I guess, obviously, I could have created a shortcut or
batch file on the server to run the thing without launching the
wizard, but I was expecting EASE OF USE, which meant that I expected
it to behave the same way on the other machines as it did on the one
where I ran it the first time.

So here's what I'm going to do.

1) Always default to creating a server shortcut. (Right now I only
create a server shortcut if they click on the Create User App Email.)

Thus if you click on the server shortcut from another workstation away
it goes which is the way it currently works.

2) If you click on the StartMDB.exe, which is what you did from the
other workstations, I will then look for the server shortcut(s). If
only one I will ask if you want to execute it. If multiple then I
display a list box asking which one you'd like to execute.

Thanks very much for explaining in detail what you were expecting and
your situation!

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

Tony Toews said:
So here's what I'm going to do.

1) Always default to creating a server shortcut. (Right now I only
create a server shortcut if they click on the Create User App Email.)

Ignore this posting. I was fixated on server shortcuts.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
But I'm setting up the workstations for them, so I'm going from
machine to machine running the utility to get the shortcut on the
desktop. If I could get the wizard to run, I could select the INI
file and run it to create the desktop shortcut.

I'll change the logic so that:

If the user is not a "master" workstation, and you/they click on the
StartMDB.exe it brings up the same screen showing all the
configuration files that the "master" user gets. However the only
option visible is to choose which configuration file to execute.
None of the other command buttons will be visible or selectable. And
no menu options will be visible either.

IOW al the user can run is "Run Configuration File."

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

Tony Toews said:
I'll change the logic so that:

If the user is not a "master" workstation, and you/they click on the
StartMDB.exe it brings up the same screen showing all the
configuration files that the "master" user gets. However the only
option visible is to choose which configuration file to execute.
None of the other command buttons will be visible or selectable. And
no menu options will be visible either.

IOW al the user can run is "Run Configuration File."

Make that "IOW all the user .."

BTW thanks for pointing this out. I've never liked that unfriendly
message telling the user "Null command line." But I've never been
able to figure out a good means of replacing it. And now I have with
your help.

Well, with one exception. The exception being the case where an
AutoFEUpdater.INI file exists, this user/ workstation isn't in it and
there are no configuration files. Oh well.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
D

David W. Fenton

So here's what I'm going to do.

1) Always default to creating a server shortcut. (Right now I
only create a server shortcut if they click on the Create User App
Email.)

Thus if you click on the server shortcut from another workstation
away it goes which is the way it currently works.

2) If you click on the StartMDB.exe, which is what you did from
the other workstations, I will then look for the server
shortcut(s). If only one I will ask if you want to execute it.
If multiple then I display a list box asking which one you'd like
to execute.

Sounds foolproof! Even a fool like me would get *that* one right!
Thanks very much for explaining in detail what you were expecting
and your situation!

This is why I hate creating user documentation (pace a
Stackoverflow.com thread on that topic that you've contributed to),
because I don't know what needs to be explained.
 
D

David W. Fenton

If the user is not a "master" workstation, and you/they click on
the StartMDB.exe it brings up the same screen showing all the
configuration files that the "master" user gets. However the only
option visible is to choose which configuration file to execute.
None of the other command buttons will be visible or selectable.
And no menu options will be visible either.

IOW al the user can run is "Run Configuration File."

That sounds foolproof, too, and solves the problem you were trying
to solve with the other approach, but enhances ease of use for
eveybody involved.
 
D

David W. Fenton

Make that "IOW all the user .."

What, you're going to prevent users named Al from running it?
BTW thanks for pointing this out. I've never liked that
unfriendly message telling the user "Null command line." But I've
never been able to figure out a good means of replacing it. And
now I have with your help.

I think error messages should be simple and to the point. If more
detail is desired, the message should point to it, but any error
dialog should provide possible solutions to the problem (if
appropriate and feasible).
Well, with one exception. The exception being the case where an
AutoFEUpdater.INI file exists, this user/ workstation isn't in it
and there are no configuration files. Oh well.

That makes sense, too.
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
This is why I hate creating user documentation (pace a
Stackoverflow.com thread on that topic that you've contributed to),
because I don't know what needs to be explained.

One thing I've found about the Auto FE Updater is I get next to no
feedback about what works and doesn't work. So I'm exceedingly
grateful for postings like yours where we can discuss the issues and
so I can understand what you are doing.

And I agree with you about creating user docs. I hate that too.
Every time I get an email I try to update the website and create an
FAQ.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
T

Tony Toews [MVP]

David W. Fenton said:
That sounds foolproof, too, and solves the problem you were trying
to solve with the other approach, but enhances ease of use for
eveybody involved.

Excellent. This is a change that won't take much effort and is
relatively easy to test and ensure I don't add more bugs into the Auto
FE Updater.

I'm doing some family stuff for the next week so don't know if I'll
get to this in that time. But this will be the focus of version 2.01.
That and a toolbar on the top with icons but that might be version
2.02.

Thanks again, Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/
 
D

David W. Fenton

One thing I've found about the Auto FE Updater is I get next to no
feedback about what works and doesn't work. So I'm exceedingly
grateful for postings like yours where we can discuss the issues
and so I can understand what you are doing.

And I agree with you about creating user docs. I hate that too.
Every time I get an email I try to update the website and create
an FAQ.

Most of my response to user problems goes into the application
itself.

Yesterday I rolled out the first update on a new project. It
consistuted a HUGE amount of work (importing 3 years of data from an
outside source that had been languishing unimported, then testing
the import to see what data it produced, refining it to process all
the data into existing records and properly creating new records
only where necessary, in the process, building re-usable queries and
code for building a UI for it (which remains incomplete), massaging
the data so that missing RI could be put in place, renaming all
tables and fields, combining the data in two separate tables into
one (they both belonged in tblPerson), revising all the objects that
used those two tables to now use the new one, putting in place code
that sets fonts and colors for all forms in the OnOpen events,
re-working two of the three forms to have non-haphazard formatting
of field sizes, alignment, fonts, colors, etc., and adding a new
search form to find people without having to know what type they are
before you initiate the search), but not much of it showed to the
users. I had one of the users try the one thing that was new (the
people search form), and immediately saw that my approach to it
wasn't going to work. For finding people, I like using a single
textbox where you type in "Fenton, David" or "Fenton" or "Fenton, D"
or ", David" or "F, David" or "*s?n, D" and get useful results. So,
I also add a label with on-screen instructions on how to use it. I
also tend to use the control's AfterUpdate to initiate the search.
The form has only one command button, a DONE button that closes it.

What I saw when I demonstrated it to the first user:

1. she didn't read anything onscreen. She opened it and immediately
started typing. And then hit the DONE button.

2. once she went back to it, she didn't know how to start the search
(because she didn't read the text onscreen).

3. even once she had grasped hitting ENTER, there was still the
problem that you have to force the AfterUpdate event (so my
implementation was flawed, because when I usually do this, I clear
the search textbox after the search, but in this case, I'm making
the search results and search terms "sticky" so that your last
search is still there the next time you come back to it -- simply by
hidding the form insted of closing it).

So, the next slipstream update will have these features:

1. data import UI.

2. revised search form that uses the LostFocus event and has a fake
GO command button (I've done that one before -- the button has no
event, as it's only purpose is to get the LostFocus event to fire),
and that drops all the complexities (no longer requires "Lastname,
Firstname" format, but instead works just like a Google search,
which means less accurate results ("John Smith" will now get you
"Smith Brittingham"), but be less fussy.

The point is that a UI that is completely sensible and powerful for
me is too complicated for the end users without training. So, I'm
going to make it match user expectations.

One of things I'm puzzling over is how to replicate the way HTML
forms work without running the search multiple times (as is the case
with HTML forms). That is, when you hit ENTER on a field in an HTML
form, it executes, no matter what. I want the search to execute when
LostFocus occurs (i.e., when the users hits ENTER or clicks the GO
command button), but not repeat if the results are already
displayed. I think I may use the AfterUpdate event to set a flag on
this (AfterUpdate won't fire if the data in the criteria textbox
hasn't changed).

There are other issues I'm thinking about, but the point is all of
this is motivated by watching how users react to what I've built and
then redesigning it to make it work the way THEY EXPECT IT TO. If I
do that, NO DOCUMENTATION IS NECESSARY.

I could have written great documentation for my original
implementation, from my point of view, but it would not have
overcome the fact that I built something that did not meet the
users' expectations about how it should work.

In the case of my experience with the Updater last Monday, it didn't
meet my expectations, and now you've done exactly what I am
planning, i.e., change the behavior to address user expectations.
Having the documentation is great, but had it worked the way your
redesign will, I never would have needed to read any docs.

And to me, that's the real goal.
 

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