The Auto FE Updatrer will no longer be free

[Tony Toews]

Folks

Hows that for an attention grabbing subject? Although I'm serious.
I've put a lot of work into the utility. Thousands of hours. I've
tried to make money using voluntary donations, voluntary licensing and
now the Enterprise Edition. I figure I'm up to about $1 per hour.
Maybe.

So I'm seriously considering making the Auto FE Updater so it will
work for the first 15 days no problem. After that for the next 15
days every time the developer starts it they get a nag screen and they
click Ok. Every time the user starts it an "Unlicensed screen"
which they have to click OK or wait 5 seconds. After 30 days they
will have to wait 5 seconds before they can continue.

Yes, I've posted many times that it's free. And now it isn't. I will
be criticized for this decision.

I would geusstimate that 0.05%, yes, that's one in two thousand, of
the downloaders have made some kind of financial renumeration. So if
I get only 5% of the downloads but I get paid for those then I can
keep on making lots of feature enhancements.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[Wayne]

Folks

Hows that for an attention grabbing subject?

Hi Tony. What licence fee will be applicable to a developer who
distributes the Updater to lots of clients?

 

[Tony Toews]

Hi Tony. What licence fee will be applicable to a developer who
distributes the Updater to lots of clients?

I will be creating an ISV (reseller) version which will include the
ability to download updates from the ISV websites as a zip file,
unzip and copy the updated files(s). All of which can be intiated by
one line of code from within the users Access application.  Obviously
you the developer will want to restrict this to just the power users
of your app.

Now if there are schema changes required for the backend database then
that gets a bit tricker. But the Auto FE Updater now knows if
someone is in the backend so a screen could be displayed for the power
user showing who is in the backend so everyone can exit and then the
Auto FE Updater will continue to deploy the new FE.

Of course you the developer will have to have code to update the
tables, fields, relationships and indexes. I'm reasonably happy with
Compare'Em
http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/CompareEM-LITE/CompareEMscreens/CompareEM-About.htm.
Although it does have it's quirks and I don't think it supports
ACCDBs.

I'm thinking a price would be $100 per client. But maybe that's a
bit high. I'm not quite sure on this. Maybe a graduated pricing
policy.

However I think there are some Access developers who are selling their
program for $50 as it is for personal use rather than corporate use.
So I'm quite willing to be flexible in that situation.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[Tony Toews]

I'm thinking a price would be $100 per client. But maybe that's a
bit high. I'm not quite sure on this. Maybe a graduated pricing
policy.

I realized that this is not at all practical. This would require me
being notified for each new client. And if I was to create a license
file for each new client this would mean you'd have to tell me thier
name. And I don't want to deal with that kind of administrivia.
Furthermore, understandably, you don't want me to know your client
names.

So a flat fee of some sort. But what is reasonable? Or do I have
some kind of percentage based system and trust that you the developers
will tell me the number of clients? No, you wouldn't want to even
tell me that. Also quite understandable.

So no a flat fee of some sort I guess. What do you think is
reasonable?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[David-W-Fenton]

I would geusstimate that 0.05%, yes, that's one in two thousand,
of the downloaders have made some kind of financial renumeration.
So if I get only 5% of the downloads but I get paid for those
then I can keep on making lots of feature enhancements.

Well, for what it's worth, I won't use it in that case, and won't
have my clients purchase it, either. In most cases where I've
implemented it, it's been where there was no upgrade management
installed. Where I haven't used it, I have something else in place
that I've written myself (usually batch files), so that means
instead of the easy route of using your utility, I'll simply make a
one-time effort to enhance some vbScripts to do the job.

I know you've put a lot of effort into it, but most of the work
you've done is not needed for the clients I've got (no Citrix, not
even any workgroup file). I've only needed one of your "advanced"
features in one setting, and that's not in production use any
longer.

I feel terrible that I wouldn't be supporting you, but I can't see
why I shouldn't earn the money for myself rather than passing it off
to you.

Secondly, I'd still be first-line support, and it's easier for me to
do that with something I've written myself.

I worry that you won't make any more than you're making now, Tony,
and all you've done is deprived yourself of a bunch of free quality
assurance testers.

 

[Tony Toews]

Well, for what it's worth, I won't use it in that case, and won't
have my clients purchase it, either.

Reasonable enough.

I worry that you won't make any more than you're making now, Tony,

Yes, that's quite possible. In which case work on the utility will
slow to a crawl, rather than than the 7,000 lines of code I've added
since January.

and all you've done is deprived yourself of a bunch of free quality
assurance testers.

True but if folks are paying for the utility then they will be even
more motivated to give me feedback.

Your points are quite valid.

You will always be able to use the current version 3.14 for free. I
may remove it from my website as I usually do with the second oldest
version as I put out new versions.

Tony

--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[Tony Toews]

When you updated your AutoFE (maybe a year or less ago) it became
simplicity itself. Prior to that it took a few hours to set it up
correctly (at least so it worked for me). Now a few minutes. It was a
major improvement.

Thanks. The wizard and the update form make a huge difference in ease
of use.

Any application that I write in the future I will ask the client to
spring for it, especially those that require frequent updates.

It is a quality product, easy to use, and I applaud your effort. You
should be compensated for it.

Thanks for your kind words.

You were musing on pricing. Perhaps 2 types; professional (developer)
and single site (user). A professional for someone that can distribute
to unlimited companies, user for one company's use. What's a fair
price? Only you know. Maybe $200 for Professional, $25-50 for an end
user client. (USD). You want a price that people won't balk at as a
sale is better than a window shopper.

I was just trying to come up with the name for the version to be used
by outside programmers. My working name was ISV but I didn't like
that. Professional sounds better and I might use it. Developer
wasn't quite descriptive enough.

Can AutoFE be expanded to other programs? i don't know.

Yes. That's one reason why I added the Start Method = Display File
Count Message. This way it doesn't actually start a program such as
Access, Excel, Word, whatever. It just states "All files are up to
date" or "x files copied".

Does FileMaker
or other database programs require easy distrubution as well?

Apparently FileMaker has the capabliity built ni.

Maybe
other developers here know of other programs that require easy
distribution. Would an IT department that distributes apps to new
end-users need something like this?

Maybe a site like Tucows or similar would be good distribution site as well.

I need to add some more features first such as copying subfolders.
But yes, I'll be thinking about that when I get there.

Job well done.

Thanks.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[Clif McIrvin]

Thanks. The wizard and the update form make a huge difference in ease
of use.


Thanks for your kind words.


I was just trying to come up with the name for the version to be used
by outside programmers. My working name was ISV but I didn't like
that. Professional sounds better and I might use it. Developer
wasn't quite descriptive enough.


Yes. That's one reason why I added the Start Method = Display File
Count Message. This way it doesn't actually start a program such as
Access, Excel, Word, whatever. It just states "All files are up to
date" or "x files copied".

I also own the www.autofileupdater.com domain. <smile>

I have used AutoFEUpdater to distribute Excel AddIns. The flexibility
Tony has built in is incredible. Not only can you use AutoFEUpdater to
copy only; it can be used to launch an "unrelated" process ... script,
exe, whatever.

 

[Cheryl]

Tony, your work is brilliant, and I see no reason you can't charge for
it.

Careful of your stats. Some large percentage of downloads probably
never get implemented, so their payment of a fee would not be
appropriate.

Having said that, I haven't paid you, but I had planned when moving to
the next version to license your Professional version. I'll bill it to
my client "under the covers".

Take a look at VBAGlobalErrorHandler for an example of a pretty well-
thought-out licensing structure. Its still relies on some trust, but I
think it's worked out for me and my client.

Jim

 

[Tony Toews]

Tony, your work is brilliant, and I see no reason you can't charge for
it.

Careful of your stats. Some large percentage of downloads probably
never get implemented, so their payment of a fee would not be
appropriate.

True enough.

Having said that, I haven't paid you, but I had planned when moving to
the next version to license your Professional version. I'll bill it to
my client "under the covers".

Take a look at VBAGlobalErrorHandler for an example of a pretty well-
thought-out licensing structure. Its still relies on some trust, but I
think it's worked out for me and my client.

So you're thinking of the page at
http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbwatchdog_purchase.htm ?

Yes, I have no problem with such a system. Indeed I'm doing
something similar when I ask you to indicate how many servers you are
using the Auto FE Updater on.

But could you be a bit more specific in your thoughts? Do you mean by
number of users of the utility? If you are a outside contractor the
number of clients? Total number of users among all the clients?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[Clif McIrvin]

Tony,

I used it several years ago (when it was very simple) with a couple of
clients (now out of business due to the economy), and it did all I
needed.
I would have no problem paying a reasonable, one-time fee for
distribution rights.
As a matter of fact I will soon be rolling out a major upgrade at a
client and have been considering using the FE Updater.
My only hesitation is that there has been so much added to it, and I
am only interested in simple distribution, like the old one did.

"Simple distribution" is the way I use it. Believe me ... the setup is
WAY easier now than it was back then.

Download it and take it for a test drive!

 

[Tony Toews]

I used it several years ago (when it was very simple) with a couple of
clients (now out of business due to the economy), and it did all I needed.
I would have no problem paying a reasonable, one-time fee for distribution
rights.
As a matter of fact I will soon be rolling out a major upgrade at a client
and have been considering using the FE Updater.
My only hesitation is that there has been so much added to it, and I am only
interested in simple distribution, like the old one did.

Using the wizard to set things up is about as simple as you can get.
You don't need to use any of the options.

Although setting up a user new to your application by having the Auto
FE Updater create an email in your email client is, I think, a very
nice time saving feature. All you need to do is click on a few
buttons and key in the persons email address. Then all they need to
do is to click on the hyperlink embedded in the email and now they can
run your Access app.

And I have Clif, who also responded to your posting, to thank for
asking some good questions of me and in an Outlook newsgroup.

If you persevered the old way manually typing in the entries in the
INI file and trying, trying again until it worked good for you!
<smile> But you should get going with a new app in about two minutes
I hope.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[David-W-Fenton]

Reasonable enough.


Yes, that's quite possible. In which case work on the utility
will slow to a crawl, rather than than the 7,000 lines of code
I've added since January.


True but if folks are paying for the utility then they will be
even more motivated to give me feedback.

Your points are quite valid.

You will always be able to use the current version 3.14 for free.
I may remove it from my website as I usually do with the second
oldest version as I put out new versions.

I was thinking about this last night after I logged off Usenet, and
it seems to me that the work you've been putting into it lately is
for features that I don't need nor want. In a sense, you're
recapitulating the same scenario that Microsoft went through with
Access 2000 and Access developers. They put in a lot of features
that were Enterprise-oriented while doing things that made life more
difficult for the rest of us. And the new features were quite often
half-baked (DAPs, anyone?).

I worry that you're putting effort into making your utility all
things to all people and painting yourself into a corner.

What my clients need is something quite simple.

And if your utility costs money, I'll engineer just what they need,
and nothing more, instead of using the more versatile $$ utility
that provides additional features that I don't need.

I hate doing that, because I think you do really great work, and I'd
like to support it.

Have you considered a developer license? I don't know what the price
should be, but it seems the only way you'll get widespread use/$$$.

 

[Tony Toews]

I was thinking about this last night after I logged off Usenet, and
it seems to me that the work you've been putting into it lately is
for features that I don't need nor want. In a sense, you're
recapitulating the same scenario that Microsoft went through with
Access 2000 and Access developers. They put in a lot of features
that were Enterprise-oriented while doing things that made life more
difficult for the rest of us. And the new features were quite often
half-baked (DAPs, anyone?).

Trouble is everything I've put in has been requested features. And I
have a 3 to 6 month backlog of requests I'd also like to put n.

I worry that you're putting effort into making your utility all
things to all people and painting yourself into a corner.

What my clients need is something quite simple.

But where do I draw the line? Trusted Locations is important to some
people. Setting up a user new to your Access app is, I think, a very
nice feature.

And if your utility costs money, I'll engineer just what they need,
and nothing more, instead of using the more versatile $$ utility
that provides additional features that I don't need.

I hate doing that, because I think you do really great work, and I'd
like to support it.

Have you considered a developer license? I don't know what the price
should be, but it seems the only way you'll get widespread use/$$$.

Yes, I have. I will include the basic features and the ability to
download your application updates as zip files from your website,
unzip and then proceed from there.

But how do I price this version or the basic version?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[David-W-Fenton]

Trouble is everything I've put in has been requested features.
And I have a 3 to 6 month backlog of requests I'd also like to put
n.

I never thought to request a feature from you. It always did exactly
what I wanted.

But where do I draw the line? Trusted Locations is important to
some people. Setting up a user new to your Access app is, I
think, a very nice feature.

Well, a modular structure comes to mind, but of course, it's much
harder to design that. Certainly I can see Trusted Locations as
something that is included in the base updater, but setting up a new
users seems to me like something peripheral, and oughtn't be in the
updater proper.

Yes, I have. I will include the basic features and the ability to
download your application updates as zip files from your website,
unzip and then proceed from there.

But how do I price this version or the basic version?

I'm at a loss as to suggest anything. I have a replication add-in
that I sell for $250 per replica set, but haven't had very many
takers. But it hasn't been a case of people being driven away by the
price, but that nobody asks for it!

So, you're asking the wrong person.

Joel Spolsky has an article on pricing, but it's more for
large-scale software sales, not for small-scale stuff like yours.

I think a shareware model might be better for yours, or the pay
version having features that the free one lacks. But then, how much
time does it take to re-architect to work that way? Is it worth the
time to get your utility more widely distributed for basic
functionality?

I can't say.

 

[Tony Toews]

but setting up a new
users seems to me like something peripheral, and oughtn't be in the
updater proper.

But it's a huge time saver and very convenient. I've had a number of
comments specifically on that. Yes, it's not part of the basic
functiona

I think a shareware model might be better for yours, or the pay
version having features that the free one lacks. But then, how much
time does it take to re-architect to work that way? Is it worth the
time to get your utility more widely distributed for basic
functionality?

Shareware/trialware is the model I'm seriously considering going to.
It will continue to work but, after the 15 or 30 days, the developer
and the user will see nag messages.

Pay version which has features that the free ones lack is the
Enterprise Edition which I currently have available. But that hasn't
sold very many licenses. So do I move more features from the free
version? If so which features?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[Tony Toews]

On 21 Oct 2010 23:12:03 GMT, "David-W-Fenton"

I tried sending you an email and it bounced.

ErrString = Invalid server address
ErrInfo = s551 zzz emailjiajia zzzzz com.
SMAIL SMTP-Send EDNS = "dfenton zzz com" SMTP = "granite zzzz ab zzzz
ca" From = "tony zzzz granite zzz ab zzzz ca" To = "dfassoc zzzzz
dfenton zzzz com" Failed !
SMTP-Error = "Invalid server address"
SMTP-Server = "dfenton zzzz com"

I inserted the zzzzs of course.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[Tony Toews]

On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:11:22 -0600, Tony Toews

Made the decision and have posted a blog entry and updated the various
pages. The below is a copy of my blog entry.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/archive/2010/10/24/the-auto-fe-updater-is-no-longer-free-for-use.aspx


Despite what I’ve stated on my website for the past decade I’ve
decided that going forward the Auto FE Updater is no longer free.

Why? Please visit the Licensing FAQ page.
http://autofeupdater.com/pages/licensingfaq.htm

Pricing – Please visit the Licensing page
http://autofeupdater.com/pages/licensing.htm

I also added a Editions summary and feature comparison page
http://autofeupdater.com/pages/editionfeaturecomparision.htm

But

For the next two weeks if you purchase a Standard Edition you will get
a license for the Enterprise Edition.

In addition if you purchased the Enterprise Edition in the past or
were given an Enterprise Edition because you had purchased a voluntary
license you will continue to get annual subscription updates for half
the previous licensing fee of the Enterprise Edition or $87.50.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

you DO know that it would be a lot easier if everyone just kept their
tables / queries in ONE PLACE - on a database server where they
belong, right?

 

[Tony Toews]

you DO know that it would be a lot easier if everyone just kept their
tables / queries in ONE PLACE - on a database server where they
belong, right?

And I have clients who have their data including all their views and
stored procedures on SQL Server and are using the Auto FE Updater to
push out the updates to the Access front end to the users.

In other words your posting makes no sense whatsoever in this context.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/