Various HP printer ink expiration dates analyzed

[Agent Orange]

Q: What is the significance of the date printed on the HP ink PACKAGE?
SINGAPORE MAY 2003

Relevant Hewlett Packard ink cartridge dates are:
- The date HP manufactured the ink cartridge
- The date HP prints on the ink cartridge
- The date HP prints on the ink cartridge package consumer cardboard box
- The date HP printer cartridges are installed in the printer
- The date HP first stops printing (due to false "low ink" messages)
- The date HP usually stops printing (due to false "expiration" messages)
- The date HP actually stops printing (due to true expiration messages)

Since we now know full well HP inserts up to three false expiration
dates before the final (true) expiration date, I ask this question:

Q: What is the MEANING of this date printed on the HP package box?
SINGAPORE MAY 2003

Note 1: Box-print-date is NOT the date the cardboard box was
actually printed (as a quick look at packages on the
store shelves shows most, if not all, to be in the future).

Note 2: Box-print-date also can not be the Cartridge_print_date as
the date printed on the HP ink cartridge is easily proven
to be different simply by opening a box.

Given that actual re-fill tests proved (in ascending order):
a) derived_true_manufacture_date
= 2001/12/10 (cartridge printed date - 2.5 years)
b) date_cartridge_was_purchased
=== 2002/01/12 (date cartridge was purchased)
c) date_cartridge_was_installed
=== 2002/01/14 (date cartridge was placed in service)
d) date_hp_prints_on_the_ink_box
= MAY 2003 (What is the significance of this date?)
e) 1st_false_hp_empty_date
~= 2004/05/14 (approx. 800 pages of ink printing)
f) 2nd_false_hp_expiration_date
= 2004/06/10 (date actually printed on ink tank)
g) 3rd_false_hp_expiration_date
= 2004/07/14 (2.5 years of contiguous printer service)
h) true_hp_ink_expiration_date
= 2006/06/10 (cartridge printed date + 2 years)

Q: What is the significance of the date HP prints on the
outside PACKAGE of the cardboard box containing ink tanks?
MAY 2003 (What is the significance of this date?)

 

[Bob Headrick]

Q: What is the significance of the date printed on the HP ink PACKAGE?
SINGAPORE MAY 2003

As the box says, this is the "install by" date. Exactly what this means
depends on whether it is an integrated printhead vs. a separate ink supply, but
in general if the box says "install by May 2003" it is not likely to be very
good today sixteen months later. If it is an integrated ink and printhead
design (such as the #78 or #45) there is no "lockout" for old cartridges and
you can try them, with possibly poor printing results. The products that have
separate ink and printheads do enforce an expiration date to avoid clogging a
printhead with old ink. See:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=bpa02069#N10087

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Agent Orange]

As the box says, this is the "install by" date. Exactly what this means
depends on whether it is an integrated printhead vs. a separate ink supply

I guess the unanswered question for today is:
Q: What is the (true) HP #-of-pages ink-to-empty calculation method?

Hi Bob,

We much appreciate your reply.
It makes sense for HP to print a suggested "install by" date.

This particular ink cartridge is a black HP 14 (hp c5011d).
Contrary to what you'd think, the cardboard retail package is
decidedly NOT stamped with "install by" or "suggested install by" or
anything which says this is the suggested install by date.

The box is stampled with the words (sans anything else):
SINGAPORE MAY 2003

Until I read your suggested web page, I hadn't realized the date
printed on the hp ink cartridge was the actual "end of warranty date".
I'll update my HP ink dates list accordingly.

Given your direction, the appropriate web page (for me) would be:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=bpa02075&locale=en_US
where it says the suggested install by date "is calculated by adding
12 months (printheads), and 18 months (ink supplies) to the date of
manufacture. The date is printed on the outside of the retail
package."

As a doublecheck, looking at the cardboard retail package even
further, I see yet another date on one of the glued flaps, which seems
to be the date the package was printed (which is probably not
meaningful so I won't bother to provide that date).

Here is an update on the various HP printer ink dates:
1) 2001/12/10 (derived_true_manufacture_date).
Calculated by subtracting 2.5 years from the
warranty expiration date, which itself is the date
printed on the ink cartridge itself.
2) 2002/01/12 (arbitrary cartridge purchase date).
Note the warranty expiration date apparently has
nothing to do with the date you purchased the hp
ink cartridge, contrary to what you'd have thought.
3) 2002/01/14 (arbitrary service date).
This is the arbitrary date the hp ink cartridge was
placed in service in the HP d145 printer. Note that
the first false expiration date does have a bearing
on this installation date, but that the actual
expiration date is not related to the install date.
4) MAY 2003 SINGAPORE (hp_suggested_install-by_date).
Calculated by adding 1.5 years to the date of manufacture.
Basically this is a warning to the user BEFORE they
purchase an hp ink cartridge that they are getting
dangerously close to the expiration date (especially
if they, like most people, refill the ink tanks).
5) 2004/05/14 (1st_false_hp_empty_lockdown_date)
Reputedly calculated simply by the d145 counting pages
(despite what you'd think, the HP d145 printer apparently
does NOT count sprayed ink drops. It apparently just
counts pages (which is nearly meaningless). Especially
if you refill your hp ink tanks (as most of us do),
this incorrect calculation is virtually worthless.
However, even with your 20 dollar lifetime supply of
refill ink, if you wish to continue to print past this
point, you'll need to turn OFF this counterproductive
calculation by following instructions widely posted
on the Internet and included in the reference URLs below.
Note: Never let the ink tanks dry out for two reasons:
- The tank sponge reputedly shrinks, causing leakage.
- The separate printheads purportedly can be damaged.
I do NOT know the HP ink-to-empty calculation method.
I'm told it's based on ink volume & coverage percent,
e.g., given 26 ml (.88 fluid ounce) of ink, and, say,
a 15% coverage, you end up with, say, 750 pages which
are what is reputedly actually counted. Can anyone
reliably confirm or deny this hypothesis?
6) 2004/06/10 (date actually printed on ink tank)
This is the HP warranty expiration date (which, contrary
to all common conventions, seems to have absolutely
no bearing on when you actually purchased or installed
the hp ink cartridge in your d145 HP printer).
7) 2004/07/14 (second false expiration date)
Calculated by adding 2.5 years to the date the
cartridge was installed in the HP d145 printer if
(and only if) that service is contiguous. Since the
hp d145 printer "remembers" the last two cartridges,
this calculation metric separately applies to the
previous ink cartridge also. (That's why most of us
cycle three refilled ink cartridges, thereby
fulfilling HP's dream of selling 3 cartridges to
every Customer and no more.)
8) 2006/06/10 (true_hp_ink_expiration_date).
Calculated by adding 2 years to the date printed on
top of the hp ink cartridge. There is probably an
intelligent method to overcome this date (see multiple
attempts by folks covering the connections with tape
and/or resetting printer dates) but I have not checked
any of these as my d145 printer is too new for me to
have had to overcome this clever HP marketing ploy.

Some helpful URLs to better understand hp printer ink dates:
http://www.alotofthings.com/supportforrefillers/resettingthehpC5010A5011A.html
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9220
http://www.valueshop.co.uk/printer-ink-links.asp
http://www.cacartridge.com/ink_jets.php
http://www.stratitec.com/inkrefill/support/hplowink.html

HP printer ink refill manufacturers:
http://www.atlascopy.com/refills/resetters.htm
http://www.ink-etc.com
http://www.amerijet.org/technical.html
http://www.reinkkit.com/InkRefillKitsDir/index.html
http://www.ink-refills.com/d135officejet.htm
http://store1.inetu.net/inkexpress/StoreFront.bok
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=bpa02075&locale=en_US

HP A/D cartridge woes:
http://atlascopy.com/C6578.htm

I guess the unanswered question for today is:
Q: What is the HP number-of-pages calculation method?

Is it 26 ml (.88 fluid ounce) of black ink at 15% coverage
per page, yields approximately 750 pages, which is the
derived number actually imputed (i.e., pages, not ink drops)
for the first hp d145 false printer ink empty lockdown?

Can anyone reliably confirm or deny this hypothesis?

 

[Bob Headrick]

Reputedly calculated simply by the d145 counting pages
(despite what you'd think, the HP d145 printer apparently
does NOT count sprayed ink drops. It apparently just
counts pages (which is nearly meaningless).

I think you have been misinformed. HP printers that calculate ink usage
typically count drops and may also apply correction factors based on storage
time, temperature or other factors.

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Brian Inglis]

I think you have been misinformed. HP printers that calculate ink usage
typically count drops and may also apply correction factors based on storage
time, temperature or other factors.

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

I sincerely doubt that the cheap printers have TOY clocks, temp
sensors, or registers capable of counting ink drops at the rate they
are printed.
High end professional printers may have some of these features, but I
sincerely doubt whether they could be cost justified in terms of
functionality delivered even in the high end models.
Besides, who cares about warning levels: inks and toners are used
until the output is too faint or one colour runs out, and a page or
document is reprinted.
If a cartridge fails to work, or stops working when there is still
adequate ink in it, it is returned to the store for replacement.

 

[Orak Listalavostok]

I sincerely doubt that the [consumer] printers have ... clocks, temp
sensors, or registers capable of counting ink drops at the rate they
are printed.

If the HP consumer printers really do count ink drips, can anyone tell
us where the sensor which does so is located?

Anyone have a photo of this sensor? For *any* HP consumer printer?
Or a diagram? Or a datasheet?
Or an HP web page which says so?

Orak Listalavostok

 

[Robert A. Bonda]

Besides, who cares about warning levels ...

The only problem I have is that my HP ink tanks expire before I'm done
with them. I refill them using professional grade inks from the local
printing ship (at about 5 US dollars for 250 ml of high-quality ink).

My only problem is the final hp ink tank expiration date.

I have to start all over with new HP ink cartridges (which have that
lousy HP ink in them). Which means I have to again suffer through
about 500 pages of spotty HP printing before I can go professional
again with the better refill ink.

So, the most important question I'd like answered by printing experts
is:

HOW (the heck) DOES HP STORE & COMPARE THE TWO DATES?

Does HP store & compare the ink tank expire & current dates:
a) in the pc?
b) in the printer?
c) in the ink cartridge?

Where is the current date & expiry date actually stored?

------------- Bob Bonda --------------

 

[Steve B]

It doesn't need a sensor. Each time a jet is fired, some logic level must be
going from 0 to 1 to do it, so you just use this same signal to advance a
counter. That's the way I would do it, anyway.

I sincerely doubt that the [consumer] printers have ... clocks, temp
sensors, or registers capable of counting ink drops at the rate they
are printed.

If the HP consumer printers really do count ink drips, can anyone tell
us where the sensor which does so is located?

Anyone have a photo of this sensor? For *any* HP consumer printer?
Or a diagram? Or a datasheet?
Or an HP web page which says so?

Orak Listalavostok

 

[Tony Morgan]

I sincerely doubt that the [consumer] printers have ... clocks, temp
sensors, or registers capable of counting ink drops at the rate they
are printed.

If the HP consumer printers really do count ink drips, can anyone tell
us where the sensor which does so is located?

Anyone have a photo of this sensor? For *any* HP consumer printer?
Or a diagram? Or a datasheet?
Or an HP web page which says so?

Break open a cartridge and you'll see a resistive strip down the inside.
When the cartridge is full there's low electrical resistance, when it's
empty there's high resistance.

Anyone who gives this ink-drop counting urban myth should as themselves
why, when you refill a cartridge, the ink indicator goes to max.

Or you can believe that there's a little man inside counting the ink
drops and that the earth is flat

 

[Steve B]

You can press a combination of buttons on my HP 5550 and get a printout of how
many times each colour has fired in total for a particular serial number
cartridge. My current #57 cartridge's yellow has fired 459,877,084 times, Cyan
250,571,822, and Magenta 248,605,823. Not a lot of use but it's there.

I sincerely doubt that the [consumer] printers have ... clocks, temp
sensors, or registers capable of counting ink drops at the rate they
are printed.

If the HP consumer printers really do count ink drips, can anyone tell
us where the sensor which does so is located?

Anyone have a photo of this sensor? For *any* HP consumer printer?
Or a diagram? Or a datasheet?
Or an HP web page which says so?

Break open a cartridge and you'll see a resistive strip down the inside. When
the cartridge is full there's low electrical resistance, when it's empty
there's high resistance.

Anyone who gives this ink-drop counting urban myth should as themselves why,
when you refill a cartridge, the ink indicator goes to max.

Or you can believe that there's a little man inside counting the ink drops and
that the earth is flat

 

[R P]

Could it be a binary value coded into some of the contacts on the cartridge.
For example all cartridges made in a months production have a number and the
next month the number increments by 1. 8 bits would give a range of 256
months or over 20 years.

temperature.

Besides, who cares about warning levels ...

The only problem I have is that my HP ink tanks expire before I'm done
with them. I refill them using professional grade inks from the local
printing ship (at about 5 US dollars for 250 ml of high-quality ink).

My only problem is the final hp ink tank expiration date.

I have to start all over with new HP ink cartridges (which have that
lousy HP ink in them). Which means I have to again suffer through
about 500 pages of spotty HP printing before I can go professional
again with the better refill ink.

So, the most important question I'd like answered by printing experts
is:

HOW (the heck) DOES HP STORE & COMPARE THE TWO DATES?

Does HP store & compare the ink tank expire & current dates:
a) in the pc?
b) in the printer?
c) in the ink cartridge?

Where is the current date & expiry date actually stored?

------------- Bob Bonda --------------[/QUOTE]

 

[Tony Morgan]

In message <[email protected]>, Steve B

You can press a combination of buttons on my HP 5550 and get a printout
of how many times each colour has fired in total for a particular
serial number cartridge. My current #57 cartridge's yellow has fired
459,877,084 times, Cyan 250,571,822, and Magenta 248,605,823. Not a
lot of use but it's there.

What happens to the count when you refill?

Though not relevant to HP printers, most current Epson cartridges have a
chip in them that "counts", and to get a refilled cartridge to be
usable, you have to reset the chip count with a 3rd-party unit.

 

[Agent Orange]

Each time a jet is fired, some logic level must be going from 0 to 1 to do it,
so you just use this same signal to advance a counter.
That's the way I would do it, anyway.

You can press a combination of buttons on my HP 5550 and get a printout of how
many times each colour has fired in total for a particular serial number
cartridge. My current #57 cartridge's yellow has fired 459,877,084 times, Cyan
250,571,822, and Magenta 248,605,823. Not a lot of use but it's there.

SUMMARY:
Can someone post an Internet web page which shows me the procedure for
reviewing the ink dot count in the ubiquitous HP OJ d145?

Hi Steve,

Wow. That makes sense. Good points Steve!

I had very seriously doubted HP would put expensive sensors into
every consumer HP ink cartridge anyway - so this logic-count
hypothesis seems most worth of testing out.

How could we easily test SteveB's logic-count hypothesis?

One way, I propose, is we can create a text file with a hundred black
dots (i.e., periods). Then, each time that test file is printed, the
HP printer should advance the HP black ink count by something like 100
dots. Or, if it takes ten ink bubbles to generate 1 printed period,
then following SteveB's logc, we should see the ink dot count go up by
something like 1000 dots per page (10 for each period).

To count color dots seems a bit more complicated.
Does the HP printer count the dots separately for each color?
Or does the HP printer count any color bubble as one dot?

I'm guessing one way to tell could be to create 100 red periods ( RGB
255/0/0 red) in Microsoft Word and then set 100 more blue periods (
RGB 0/0/255 blue) and see if the color dot count changes by 100 or by
200 per printed page.

I could test this hypothesis out if I knew how to see the total number
of dots printed in a Hewlett Packard Office Jet d145 all-in-one
printer.

Can someone post an Internet web page which shows me the procedure for
reviewing the ink dot count in the ubiquitous HP OJ d145?

 

[Federico Castelluccio (Fiurio Giunta)]

Does HP store & compare the ink tank expire & current dates:
a) in the pc?
b) in the printer?
c) in the ink cartridge?

Where is the current date & expiry date actually stored?

I do not know, but, here is a quote from INSIDE HP
http://www.interex.org/insidehp/articles/insidehp02.04.03.html

End Around: Chicago Tribune reporter Jim Coates wrote that his HP
printer quit on him one day, telling him that the black ink cartridge
had expired. A spare ink cartridge yielded the same results. HP
support told Coates that the printer software reads a date code on
cartridges and blocks their use after a set length of time. He was
told the block could not be bypassed. But it can: "The best way to
defeat such a software scheme that uses a computer's internal clock to
enforce software copy protection or check expiration dates is to set
the computer to a past year when the days of the week for every month
fall on the same dates as this year," Coates wrote. "Do this and your
calendar continues to be accurate, and you fool the enforcers. The
pattern of dates associated with specific days usually rotates every
six or 11 years and always every 28 years. So, the 1997 calendar is
exactly like the 2003 calendar, and so is the 1975 one. Set your
clock/calendar to either year to fool the printer cartridge
expiration-date check."

 

[Federico Castelluccio (Fiurio Giunta)]

What happens to the [HP ink drop] count when you refill?

If someone would show me how to review the ink drop count for a
Hewlett Packard Office Jet d145, I would tell you that answer.

Without having run a test, I seriously doubt the HP ink drop count
changes when we refill an existing cartridge; but, it *might* change
when we replace the HP 14 cartridge with a new HP14 cartridge.

Bob Headrick, can you show us how to check the number of ink drops
printed in an hp oj d145? Or at least point us to the web page which
shows this (I've long lost my original manual in my housing moves).

 

[Frank Farmer]

The products that have separate ink and printheads enforce an
expiration date to avoid clogging a printhead with old ink.

The HPOJD145 does have separate HP 14 ink & printheads.
This HP 14 ink in the Office Jet D145 does enforce an expiry date.
But, can the HP real expiry date be overcome?

Note: We're talking about the real, final, expiry date; not the two
false-expiration date which gets most users to replace the HP ink
cartridge sooner than it needs to be (as discussed previously).

For some ink cartridges, apparently the final expiry date *can* be
modified at the time of ink installation into the printer, e.g.:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E3C0114E8 (the short url for):
http://www.interex.org/insidehp/articles/insidehp02.04.03.html
which contains (much abbreviated for this post) instructions:
- Do not install the cartridge until you do the following.
- There is an *.ini file (hpSomethingOrOther.ini) stored in the
system directory (WINNT in NT and 2000) ... In it there is a
parameter something like pencheck. It is set to 0100.
Set it to 0000 in the file and save the file and REBOOT...
- ... once you have replaced all your cartridges that have expiration
dates burned into them (as they expire and they will) with ones
that now read UNKNOWN ... you should not have any cartridge expire,
ever again ...
- if you load a new driver, make sure to reset the value in the INI
file before you print anything or you will burn expiration dates
into the chips and you will have to buy new factory virgin
cartridges all over again...

Yet, for other inks, apparently, the HP expiry date can't be overcome:
http://www.alotofthings.com/inkjetinformation/TheNewInkJetMarketplace.htm
containing the (again, much abbreviated for this post) quote below"
"the HP #10 ink cartridges ... contain an internal chip that fails 16
months after the manufacture date. This is regardless of whether or
not you have used the cartridge up or used it at all."

QUESTION:
For those who refill their HP 14 ink tanks with better ink,
we need to determine if this HP14 / HPOJD145 expiry date *can* be
overcome. Do you know how HP stores & compares this expiry date?

We have to know first how it works before we can defeat it.

 

[Mickey]

Hi Steve,

Wow. That makes sense. Good points Steve!

I had very seriously doubted HP would put expensive sensors into
every consumer HP ink cartridge anyway - so this logic-count
hypothesis seems most worth of testing out.

How could we easily test SteveB's logic-count hypothesis?

Why test anything? Steve has reported what his printer is reporting
on ink usage and how it is done. Bob H has responded to your post
telling you they count drops. Have printed similar reports on several
of my HP printers as well. Just need the secret code to reveal a lot
of info about your printer. This method of calc ink usage has been
around for yrs.

When it come to HP printers, pay attention to what Bob H says. He
works at Corvallis div, the heart of HP inkjet cart. world.

Don't need no stinkn' test.

Mickey

 

[John McWilliams]

You can press a combination of buttons on my HP 5550 and get a printout of how
many times each colour has fired in total for a particular serial number
cartridge. My current #57 cartridge's yellow has fired 459,877,084 times, Cyan
250,571,822, and Magenta 248,605,823. Not a lot of use but it's there.

What combo? I have same machine, and while the above would be
interesting, what I really'd like to know is: Can I override the 14"
paper length restriction?

What is the reason this type of printer has a restriction on length of
paper anyhow? Er, width I do kinda see why it might have a limitation....

 

[Rod Speed]

I sincerely doubt that the [consumer] printers have ...
clocks, temp sensors, or registers capable of
counting ink drops at the rate they are printed.

If the HP consumer printers really do count ink drips, can
anyone tell us where the sensor which does so is located?

Doesnt need a sensor when the printer commands the ink drops.
It can just keep track of what ink drop commands have been issued.

 

[Brian Inglis]

What combo? I have same machine, and while the above would be
interesting, what I really'd like to know is: Can I override the 14"
paper length restriction?

What is the reason this type of printer has a restriction on length of
paper anyhow? Er, width I do kinda see why it might have a limitation....

IIRC it also accepts banner paper, so 14" is just the biggest common
format accepted.