Using XP PC as Gateway, add Wireless router, can't share across su

[Guest]

Hi All,

I'm using a spare PC running Windows XP Pro configured as a gateway to allow
other computers to access the Internet through this PC. (I set this up using
the Connection Wizard so please don't be too impressed ... ;-)

I did this at my ISP's request to help us troubleshoot a very persistent but
intermitent problem we've been working on for two months. Apparently they can
run better analysis tools on the PC than they can when using my router.

Things have been running pretty good so I added a wireless router to the mix
so I can use my laptops again.

I can now access the internet from all computers using both wired and
wireless connections.

However, the way I have things set up has created two subnets, one on the
Gateway PC and another on the router, and I cannot see or connect to the
other PCs to share files or printers across them.

Here's my hardware setup info:

Using Cable ISP and the cable modem they supplied.
Gateway PC has two NICs.
-- NIC1 is connected to the cable modem
-- NIC2 is connected to a Netgear 16 port switch
Several computers also plugged into the switch.

I then added my USRobotics Wireless router by plugging the WAN port into an
open port on my Netgear switch.

Works well except for not being able to see across the resultant subnets.

Wondering what is involved to allow me to share across the subnets. Some
questions I have are:
-- Can I configure the current setup to allow sharing across the subnets ?

-- Is there a different way to connect the router ? (Tried plugging the
cable in from the switch to one of the router's open LAN ports instead of the
WAN port but no luck. Due to the problem we're trying to resolve, the router
cannot be plugged directly into the cable modem, at least not as a DHCP
server.)

-- Is there a way to configure the router to remove the DHCP server function
and let it pass the DHCP from the Gateway PC ? (I've been trying this and
attempted to put the router on the same subnet as the Gateway PC without
success. The router appears to have this ability but I may not be doing it
correctly.)

-- Although the Gateway PC appears to be set up to use DHCP to assign IP
addresses to the other computers, its own IP address for my internal LAN
appears to be 'Static'. Is that normal ? Where can I go to configure the
DHCP to only use a specific range of IP addresses should this be necessary ?

Sooo, here's a very brief description of the current IP addresses as
assigned to the Gateway PC, my wireless router, and my laptop:

NIC #1 - Uses a DHCP address assigned by my ISP
NIC #2 - Uses a Static address of 192.168.0.1 , 255.255.255.0
Router - Static - 192.168.2.1 , 255.255.255.0
Laptop - DHCP - 192.168.2.4 , 255.255.255.0

Hope I haven't made this too confusing.

Would really appreciate any help as I have spent many hours researching this
and changing things without success.

Thanks.

Jay

 

[Steve Winograd [MVP]]

Hi All,

I'm using a spare PC running Windows XP Pro configured as a gateway to allow
other computers to access the Internet through this PC. (I set this up using
the Connection Wizard so please don't be too impressed ... ;-)

I did this at my ISP's request to help us troubleshoot a very persistent but
intermitent problem we've been working on for two months. Apparently they can
run better analysis tools on the PC than they can when using my router.

Things have been running pretty good so I added a wireless router to the mix
so I can use my laptops again.

I can now access the internet from all computers using both wired and
wireless connections.

However, the way I have things set up has created two subnets, one on the
Gateway PC and another on the router, and I cannot see or connect to the
other PCs to share files or printers across them.

Here's my hardware setup info:

Using Cable ISP and the cable modem they supplied.
Gateway PC has two NICs.
-- NIC1 is connected to the cable modem
-- NIC2 is connected to a Netgear 16 port switch
Several computers also plugged into the switch.

I then added my USRobotics Wireless router by plugging the WAN port into an
open port on my Netgear switch.

Works well except for not being able to see across the resultant subnets.

Wondering what is involved to allow me to share across the subnets. Some
questions I have are:
-- Can I configure the current setup to allow sharing across the subnets ?

-- Is there a different way to connect the router ? (Tried plugging the
cable in from the switch to one of the router's open LAN ports instead of the
WAN port but no luck. Due to the problem we're trying to resolve, the router
cannot be plugged directly into the cable modem, at least not as a DHCP
server.)

-- Is there a way to configure the router to remove the DHCP server function
and let it pass the DHCP from the Gateway PC ? (I've been trying this and
attempted to put the router on the same subnet as the Gateway PC without
success. The router appears to have this ability but I may not be doing it
correctly.)

-- Although the Gateway PC appears to be set up to use DHCP to assign IP
addresses to the other computers, its own IP address for my internal LAN
appears to be 'Static'. Is that normal ? Where can I go to configure the
DHCP to only use a specific range of IP addresses should this be necessary ?

Sooo, here's a very brief description of the current IP addresses as
assigned to the Gateway PC, my wireless router, and my laptop:

NIC #1 - Uses a DHCP address assigned by my ISP
NIC #2 - Uses a Static address of 192.168.0.1 , 255.255.255.0
Router - Static - 192.168.2.1 , 255.255.255.0
Laptop - DHCP - 192.168.2.4 , 255.255.255.0

Hope I haven't made this too confusing.

Would really appreciate any help as I have spent many hours researching this
and changing things without success.

Thanks.

Jay

You've already come up with a common way to solve the problem: connect
one of the wireless router's LAN ports to the Netgear switch, and
disable the router's DHCP server. That should let the host computer
act as the DHCP server for a single subnet serving both the wired and
wireless computers. But you say that it doesn't work. What problem
happens with that setup?

Another solution, which I use in my home network, is to configure the
wireless router as a wireless access point only. My Belkin Wireless G
router has a "Use as Access Point" option built in. Your USR router
might, too.

Internet Connection Sharing always assigns a static IP address of
192.168.0.1 to the host computer's LAN connection. That's normal.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

 

[Barb Bowman]

what is the original persistent intermittent issue that you are
trying to solve? (and who is your ISP?)

Hi All,

I'm using a spare PC running Windows XP Pro configured as a gateway to allow
other computers to access the Internet through this PC. (I set this up using
the Connection Wizard so please don't be too impressed ... ;-)

I did this at my ISP's request to help us troubleshoot a very persistent but
intermitent problem we've been working on for two months. Apparently they can
run better analysis tools on the PC than they can when using my router.

Things have been running pretty good so I added a wireless router to the mix
so I can use my laptops again.

I can now access the internet from all computers using both wired and
wireless connections.

However, the way I have things set up has created two subnets, one on the
Gateway PC and another on the router, and I cannot see or connect to the
other PCs to share files or printers across them.

Here's my hardware setup info:

Using Cable ISP and the cable modem they supplied.
Gateway PC has two NICs.
-- NIC1 is connected to the cable modem
-- NIC2 is connected to a Netgear 16 port switch
Several computers also plugged into the switch.

I then added my USRobotics Wireless router by plugging the WAN port into an
open port on my Netgear switch.

Works well except for not being able to see across the resultant subnets.

Wondering what is involved to allow me to share across the subnets. Some
questions I have are:
-- Can I configure the current setup to allow sharing across the subnets ?

-- Is there a different way to connect the router ? (Tried plugging the
cable in from the switch to one of the router's open LAN ports instead of the
WAN port but no luck. Due to the problem we're trying to resolve, the router
cannot be plugged directly into the cable modem, at least not as a DHCP
server.)

-- Is there a way to configure the router to remove the DHCP server function
and let it pass the DHCP from the Gateway PC ? (I've been trying this and
attempted to put the router on the same subnet as the Gateway PC without
success. The router appears to have this ability but I may not be doing it
correctly.)

-- Although the Gateway PC appears to be set up to use DHCP to assign IP
addresses to the other computers, its own IP address for my internal LAN
appears to be 'Static'. Is that normal ? Where can I go to configure the
DHCP to only use a specific range of IP addresses should this be necessary ?

Sooo, here's a very brief description of the current IP addresses as
assigned to the Gateway PC, my wireless router, and my laptop:

NIC #1 - Uses a DHCP address assigned by my ISP
NIC #2 - Uses a Static address of 192.168.0.1 , 255.255.255.0
Router - Static - 192.168.2.1 , 255.255.255.0
Laptop - DHCP - 192.168.2.4 , 255.255.255.0

Hope I haven't made this too confusing.

Would really appreciate any help as I have spent many hours researching this
and changing things without success.

Thanks.

Jay

--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
Expert Zone & Vista Community Columnist
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

 

[James Egan]

Wondering what is involved to allow me to share across the subnets. Some
questions I have are:
-- Can I configure the current setup to allow sharing across the subnets ?

No.

-- Is there a different way to connect the router ? (Tried plugging the
cable in from the switch to one of the router's open LAN ports instead of the
WAN port but no luck. Due to the problem we're trying to resolve, the router
cannot be plugged directly into the cable modem, at least not as a DHCP
server.)

Given your restriction, if you want to share files and printers you
need to connect to a LAN port. Give the router a static ip address on
the same network as the gateway pc (ie. 192.168.0.x) and set the
router's dhcp server to off.

-- Is there a way to configure the router to remove the DHCP server function
and let it pass the DHCP from the Gateway PC ? (I've been trying this and
attempted to put the router on the same subnet as the Gateway PC without
success. The router appears to have this ability but I may not be doing it
correctly.)

Assuming you can't connect the router to the cable modem which would
be the best option, you need to persist with this approach. Ensure the
address you use is unique and outside of the dhcp pool that the
gateway pc will be dishing out to the computers.


Jim.

 

[Guest]

Steve and Jim,

Thanks for the replies and the information.

I have several people coming over in the morning to look at the stock market
and they require that my wireless connection be working reliably. Except for
not being able to see my other subnet things are working well right now so I
can't try any of your suggestions until tomorrow evening.

Will post back then with the results.

Thanks again.

Jay

 

[Guest]

Hi Barb,

I keep losing my Internet connection. It works great for a week or more and
then the problem comes back.

I use Time Warner's High-Speed Road Runner cable connection.

They have had various techs out to my place 5 times now and have replaced
all of the connectors, cables, splitters, etc. and the cable modem but still
had intermittent connection problems. Have worked with them over the phone a
dozen more times but my line looks clean and clear whenever they look at it
from their end.

I tried 4 different routers, 2 Linksys wired, a Linksys wireless, and a
USRobotics wireless (which I sent back to the factory and swapped it for a
new one under warranty so I guess you can call that 5 routers) but had the
same problem with all of them.

Every time I call RR with the problem they have me remove all my routers and
switches and other PCs from the mix and have only 1 PC plugged directly into
their cable modem.

Of course it works as long as they're on the phone ... such is the nature
of intermittent problems I suppose.

Anyway, one of their Level 3 techs suggested I eliminate my router and
replace it with a PC running XP and configured as a gateway. He said this
would allow them to do a more in-depth analysis if the problem reoccurs.

So far, have not had a problem since setting up the PC to replace the
router. However, I lost my wireless capability when I pulled the router out
so trying to add it back in now but wasn't sure how best to set it up.

What's frustrating is that I had my network in place for a couple of years
with three routers all uplinked to each other to give me more wired ports and
to add wireless capability and everything worked perfectly.

When this issue arouse I bought a new router and a 16 port switch to
eliminate the other routers and potential problems but to no avail.

On the bright side, got to upgrade to Wireless G and clean up my environment
with the Netgear switch and am now learning a lot more about networking ...

Jay

 

[Barb Bowman]

Does the PC lose the connection with the router in this
configuration or does the router fail to renew the IP address when
the lease is up? Are there logs on the router showing anything? did
the connection come back when you power cycled the cable modem
and/or the router? Without knowing more about the models and
hardware revs and firmware revs in these Linksys routers, it is hard
to comment. what in particular was the new router that you bought
where all the trouble started?

Hi Barb,

I keep losing my Internet connection. It works great for a week or more and
then the problem comes back.

I use Time Warner's High-Speed Road Runner cable connection.

They have had various techs out to my place 5 times now and have replaced
all of the connectors, cables, splitters, etc. and the cable modem but still
had intermittent connection problems. Have worked with them over the phone a
dozen more times but my line looks clean and clear whenever they look at it
from their end.

I tried 4 different routers, 2 Linksys wired, a Linksys wireless, and a
USRobotics wireless (which I sent back to the factory and swapped it for a
new one under warranty so I guess you can call that 5 routers) but had the
same problem with all of them.

Every time I call RR with the problem they have me remove all my routers and
switches and other PCs from the mix and have only 1 PC plugged directly into
their cable modem.

Of course it works as long as they're on the phone ... such is the nature
of intermittent problems I suppose.

Anyway, one of their Level 3 techs suggested I eliminate my router and
replace it with a PC running XP and configured as a gateway. He said this
would allow them to do a more in-depth analysis if the problem reoccurs.

So far, have not had a problem since setting up the PC to replace the
router. However, I lost my wireless capability when I pulled the router out
so trying to add it back in now but wasn't sure how best to set it up.

What's frustrating is that I had my network in place for a couple of years
with three routers all uplinked to each other to give me more wired ports and
to add wireless capability and everything worked perfectly.

When this issue arouse I bought a new router and a 16 port switch to
eliminate the other routers and potential problems but to no avail.

On the bright side, got to upgrade to Wireless G and clean up my environment
with the Netgear switch and am now learning a lot more about networking ...

Jay

--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
Expert Zone & Vista Community Columnist
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

 

[Guest]

Hi Steve,

The changes you suggested worked and I now have my wireless router set up as
a gateway/access point with the LAN port plugged into my switch.

However, it didn't work right away and took over an hour for things to
settle out and allow me to quickly connect to the Internet with a decent
connection speed.

Not sure why.

I rebooted my cable modem, router, switch, gateway computer, local PCs, etc.
but this didn't immediately fix the problem. Had to leave the house for a
while and when I came back home everything was working ...

There was another thing I noticed that seemed different with the gateway PC
than when I used my router as the DHCP server. When I made the changes and
then went to my local PCs to change the IP address that had previously been
assigned by the router, the PC had already recognized the new address from
the gateway server without my intervention and had already updated it.

(Then again, I'm not getting enough sleep these days and it's possible my
recollection of the details isn't as accurate as I imagine ;-)

As you instructed, I assigned a new IP address to my router to match the
subnet the gateway PC uses. (192.168.0.x) However, I wasn't able to figure
out how to set the range of IP addresses the gateway computer doles out in
order to prevent it from using the one I assigned to my router. This may
eventually cause a potential IP address conflict so I wonder if you know
where I go to make these changes on my XP gateway computer ?

Thanks again for your help. Will update the thread if anything new develops.

Jay

 

[Guest]

Hi Jim,

I used the information you and Steve posted and successfully made the
changes to my systems and now have all my PCs and wireless on a single subnet
and can access all my shared drives and printers again.

Thanks !!!

There were a couple of things that happened during the process that I don't
fully understand. I documented them in my reply to Steve and rather than
copy all the text into this note would ask you to refer to my note to Steve.

Appreciate your help.

Jay

 

[Guest]

Hi Barb,

The routers would lose their connection but not sure it was due to the lease
being up. This wasn't something we spent a lot of time analyzing but at one
point we did go in and change the amount of time before the lease expired but
it didn't seem to help.

Once I lost the connection, it was very difficult to reestablish a new one
and powering everything off didn't consistently fix the problem. However,
plugging a single PC into the cable modem almost always worked which led the
ISP support techs to assume it was my routers.

I actually had the same problem using all 4 routers and the new one didn't
cause the problem and didn't fix it either. I had updated the firmware on
all the routers during the 2 months of trying to resolve this but again this
didn't fix it.

Right now I've been using the gateway PC for about a week and haven't had a
disconnect but it would often work for a week or more without problems so
still not out of the woods on this yet.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and for the probing questions.

Jay

 

[James Egan]

As you instructed, I assigned a new IP address to my router to match the
subnet the gateway PC uses. (192.168.0.x) However, I wasn't able to figure
out how to set the range of IP addresses the gateway computer doles out in
order to prevent it from using the one I assigned to my router. This may
eventually cause a potential IP address conflict so I wonder if you know
where I go to make these changes on my XP gateway computer ?

According to Steve's page below you can't change the range.
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp_ics/index.htm
There's no mention of whether some of the numbers can be reserved but
I suspect not.

You might look what ip addresses are being issued to the computers and
use one which is likely never to be used. Maybe a high end number
(say) 250?


Jim.

 

[Barb Bowman]

It seems odd that 4 routers would have a problem. It almost sounds
like they were low on IP scopes and some timing issue ws preventing
the routers from renewing the existing IP.

How long are the leases for that TW gives you (post an ipconfig /all
from the computer connected to the modem.

Hi Barb,

The routers would lose their connection but not sure it was due to the lease
being up. This wasn't something we spent a lot of time analyzing but at one
point we did go in and change the amount of time before the lease expired but
it didn't seem to help.

Once I lost the connection, it was very difficult to reestablish a new one
and powering everything off didn't consistently fix the problem. However,
plugging a single PC into the cable modem almost always worked which led the
ISP support techs to assume it was my routers.

I actually had the same problem using all 4 routers and the new one didn't
cause the problem and didn't fix it either. I had updated the firmware on
all the routers during the 2 months of trying to resolve this but again this
didn't fix it.

Right now I've been using the gateway PC for about a week and haven't had a
disconnect but it would often work for a week or more without problems so
still not out of the woods on this yet.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and for the probing questions.

Jay

--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
Expert Zone & Vista Community Columnist
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

 

[Lem]

Jay,

If you're talking about Windows ICS, although the range of IP addresses
assigned by ICS can't be configured, ICS is smart enough to query the
LAN first and not to assign an IP address that's already in use.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309642/en-us

 

[Guest]

Thanks everyone for your help and forwarding me the links. Good information !

However, this morning my network went down again although it seemed to
happen slowly before eventually failing all together.

Rebooted everything, modem, gateway PC, local PCs, switch, wireless access
point, without success.

No Internet and no internal connections !!!

Reran the Network Wizard on the gateway computer and still no luck !

Very frustrating after having it work for over two years with almost no
problems.

The timing was bad and I didn't have time to contact my ISP to look at it in
that condition.

Sooo, put things back together with my router set up as the DHCP server and
plugged into the cable modem (the original configuration that was having
problems), removed the gateway PC, and my networks are working again for now.

Thinking of maybe moving and starting over from scratch as not sure what the
heck is going on and don't see a way to isolate and trouble-shoot this in my
lifetime. ;-)

Sigh ...