UPS advice

[Guest]

I have an APC smart-ups 3000 at home, which I got as a freebie from
someone who said it will need new batteries.

I have been doing some testing with it, everything appears to be
running normally, its reporting 0% load, its batteries are charging,
and its stating it has 70-odd minutes run time remaining with a 10%
charge.

the problem is when i pull the mains out the UPS dies completely, it
wont respond to the on/off button on the front panel (even after
plugging it back in), no LEDS are lit and 5 minutes later it will turn
itself back on but if i get it a slight nudge it seems to turn
straight back on too....

So at $300 for replacement batteries im wondering whether I will have
the same problem with new batteries, I would think if the batteries
are stuffed it would stay on but just die a lot quicker than
specified.

Any suggestions?

Flamer.

 

[david]

I have an APC smart-ups 3000 at home, which I got as a freebie from
someone who said it will need new batteries.

I have been doing some testing with it, everything appears to be running
normally, its reporting 0% load, its batteries are charging, and its
stating it has 70-odd minutes run time remaining with a 10% charge.

the problem is when i pull the mains out the UPS dies completely, it
wont respond to the on/off button on the front panel (even after
plugging it back in), no LEDS are lit and 5 minutes later it will turn
itself back on but if i get it a slight nudge it seems to turn straight
back on too....

So at $300 for replacement batteries im wondering whether I will have
the same problem with new batteries, I would think if the batteries are
stuffed it would stay on but just die a lot quicker than specified.

Any suggestions?

Flamer.

Your batteries are shot. But look around, you can probably get
replacements for much less than $300.

 

[Bob]

I have an APC smart-ups 3000 at home, which I got as a freebie from
someone who said it will need new batteries.

I have been doing some testing with it, everything appears to be
running normally, its reporting 0% load, its batteries are charging,
and its stating it has 70-odd minutes run time remaining with a 10%
charge.

the problem is when i pull the mains out the UPS dies completely, it
wont respond to the on/off button on the front panel (even after
plugging it back in), no LEDS are lit and 5 minutes later it will turn
itself back on but if i get it a slight nudge it seems to turn
straight back on too....

So at $300 for replacement batteries im wondering whether I will have
the same problem with new batteries, I would think if the batteries
are stuffed it would stay on but just die a lot quicker than
specified.

Any suggestions?

Flamer.

The batteries are probably dead. But to find out for sure,
pull them out and test them. $300 dollars sounds like a
lot. You might have a look at batterieswholesale.com
I ordered from them a few years ago, and all went well.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com

 

[Bob]

I have an APC smart-ups 3000 at home, which I got as a freebie from
someone who said it will need new batteries.

I have been doing some testing with it, everything appears to be
running normally, its reporting 0% load, its batteries are charging,
and its stating it has 70-odd minutes run time remaining with a 10%
charge.

the problem is when i pull the mains out the UPS dies completely, it
wont respond to the on/off button on the front panel (even after
plugging it back in), no LEDS are lit and 5 minutes later it will turn
itself back on but if i get it a slight nudge it seems to turn
straight back on too....

So at $300 for replacement batteries im wondering whether I will have
the same problem with new batteries, I would think if the batteries
are stuffed it would stay on but just die a lot quicker than
specified.

Any suggestions?

Flamer.

Actually, that should be batterywholesale.com, sorry.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com

 

[Guest]

Actually, that should be batterywholesale.com, sorry.

-- Bob Dayhttp://bobday.vze.com

thanks for the replies guys. I live in new zealand so the cost of
buying them off shore would double the price in shipping anyway.

So we all rekon it should go fine with new batts?

Flamer.

 

[Michael Cecil]

The batteries are probably dead. But to find out for sure,
pull them out and test them. $300 dollars sounds like a
lot. You might have a look at batterieswholesale.com
I ordered from them a few years ago, and all went well.

Yep, I've gotten batteries from them as well. Good website too with lots
of info.

 

[philo]

thanks for the replies guys. I live in new zealand so the cost of
buying them off shore would double the price in shipping anyway.

So we all rekon it should go fine with new batts?

Flamer.

I happen to work for a battery manufacturer and can tell you that you
were given correct advice to make the purchase locally...you will
certain save a ton of money as compared to purchasing "factory original"
batteries and chances are your UPS is perfectly good otherwise.

I also did used to work on UPS systems and yep...
it's usually the batteries that are the problem.

Before you go out any buy new batteries...
with the UPS connected to your AC line and turned on...
take a voltage reading of the batteries.

Assuming the unit takes 12v batteries...the float voltage should be
*approx* 13.5 volts. Iif so, the charging portion of the UPS is good)

Then, with a load on the UPS and the main power disconnected...
if the voltage immediately drops way below 12 volts, the batteries are
definitely bad.

Typical battery life is 3 - 5 years

 

[Guest]

I happen to work for a battery manufacturer and can tell you that you
were given correct advice to make the purchase locally...you will
certain save a ton of money as compared to purchasing "factory original"
batteries and chances are your UPS is perfectly good otherwise.

I also did used to work on UPS systems and yep...
it's usually the batteries that are the problem.

Before you go out any buy new batteries...
with the UPS connected to your AC line and turned on...
take a voltage reading of the batteries.

Assuming the unit takes 12v batteries...the float voltage should be
*approx* 13.5 volts. Iif so, the charging portion of the UPS is good)

Then, with a load on the UPS and the main power disconnected...
if the voltage immediately drops way below 12 volts, the batteries are
definitely bad.

Typical battery life is 3 - 5 years

Thanks Philo,

Actually with a bit fo charge in the disconnected batteries I tested
one and it was showing 12v but with the other block it showed 12v for
half a second then dropped to 1 so I think that proves that battery is
stuffed. But I will also try your method tonight.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Flamer.

 

[firebird-jmw]

If you are starting with 12 volt batteries, you may be able to extend
the cables outside the unit and use car batteries at much less cost
and with much longer run time. The only trick is that the UPS may run
at 24 volts with the batteries in series, so you may find it works
better to run two cables with a short series link at the batteries
than to run four cables with it going back to the box for the series
jumper.

 

[Strobe]

Thanks Philo,

Actually with a bit fo charge in the disconnected batteries I tested
one and it was showing 12v but with the other block it showed 12v for
half a second then dropped to 1 so I think that proves that battery is
stuffed. But I will also try your method tonight.

For a more thorough test, I'd suggest borrowing some batteries known to be good
and connecting them in place of the suspect ones.

If the UPS works fine, then the problem IS only bad batteries.
If there is still a problem, you'll have avoided wasting new batteries on a bad
UPS.

 

[Paul]

If you are starting with 12 volt batteries, you may be able to extend
the cables outside the unit and use car batteries at much less cost
and with much longer run time. The only trick is that the UPS may run
at 24 volts with the batteries in series, so you may find it works
better to run two cables with a short series link at the batteries
than to run four cables with it going back to the box for the series
jumper.

Car batteries are not a good substitute for the SLA battery
in the UPS. Car batteries are not designed for deep discharge,
so you should not attempt to use their full capacity, before
recharging them. Car batteries also give off more gas, than
an SLA battery would. Stick with the kind of battery
the unit is designed for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

Paul

 

[david]

If you are starting with 12 volt batteries, you may be able to extend
the cables outside the unit and use car batteries at much less cost and
with much longer run time. The only trick is that the UPS may run at 24
volts with the batteries in series, so you may find it works better to
run two cables with a short series link at the batteries than to run
four cables with it going back to the box for the series jumper.

This is extremely bad advice. Do not use car batteries connected outside
your UPS. The charging characteristics are different for car batteries.
Also the charger would not be able to sense the battery temperature,which
causes it to overcharge the batteries, the resulting outgassing and
battery overheating can be extremely dangerous.

Stick with the batteries that are recommended.

 

[Ken]

The APC SmartUPS 3000 *doesn't* sense temperature.
UPSs that DO sense battery temperature cost a whole
lot more and are usually seen in small datacenters.

My APC SmartUPS 1500 does sense temperature, but I don't
know if it use it for regulating the voltage?
http://tekniken.se/misc/smartups1500a.png
http://tekniken.se/misc/smartups1500b.png

 

[Guest]

I happen to work for a battery manufacturer and can tell you that you
were given correct advice to make the purchase locally...you will
certain save a ton of money as compared to purchasing "factory original"
batteries and chances are your UPS is perfectly good otherwise.

I also did used to work on UPS systems and yep...
it's usually the batteries that are the problem.

Before you go out any buy new batteries...
with the UPS connected to your AC line and turned on...
take a voltage reading of the batteries.

Assuming the unit takes 12v batteries...the float voltage should be
*approx* 13.5 volts. Iif so, the charging portion of the UPS is good)

Then, with a load on the UPS and the main power disconnected...
if the voltage immediately drops way below 12 volts, the batteries are
definitely bad.

Typical battery life is 3 - 5 years

Ok I tried your test method and got interesting results. UPS mains
plugged in and no load, taking a read off one of the battery terminals
i got 24 Volts. the other showed 16v

With load on the UPS, I get a reading of 26 volt with one battery
block and 16 with the other, and when i pulled the mains plug out, the
UPS switched off, the load switched off but the batteries still showed
26v/16v

with both batteries out of the UPS and isolated from each other, one
showed 24 volt, the other showed 16.

so none of the batteries died when the mains was pulled but their
voltages were mismatched

What do you think that means?

Flamer.

 

[david]

Ok I tried your test method and got interesting results. UPS mains
plugged in and no load, taking a read off one of the battery terminals i
got 24 Volts. the other showed 16v

With load on the UPS, I get a reading of 26 volt with one battery block
and 16 with the other, and when i pulled the mains plug out, the UPS
switched off, the load switched off but the batteries still showed
26v/16v

with both batteries out of the UPS and isolated from each other, one
showed 24 volt, the other showed 16.

so none of the batteries died when the mains was pulled but their
voltages were mismatched

What do you think that means?

Flamer.

bad battery

 

[philo]

Ok I tried your test method and got interesting results. UPS mains
plugged in and no load, taking a read off one of the battery terminals
i got 24 Volts. the other showed 16v

With load on the UPS, I get a reading of 26 volt with one battery
block and 16 with the other, and when i pulled the mains plug out, the
UPS switched off, the load switched off but the batteries still showed
26v/16v

with both batteries out of the UPS and isolated from each other, one
showed 24 volt, the other showed 16.

so none of the batteries died when the mains was pulled but their
voltages were mismatched

What do you think that means?

Flamer.

Well the batteries (at least one of them) are bad...
but there is no way you will know for sure the UPS is working unless you
can try it with a known good set of batteries.

even a battery pack of lesser amp-hour than original will be sufficient
for testing