Upgrade versus full install

[mm]

I need to move up to XP and I would very much appreciate some help.

I don't understand the advantages or disadvantages of upgrade versus
full install CDs.

Can one use a Full Install CD even when the hard drive has lots of
stuff on it, like a prior version of windows, and email and newsgroup
articles and other files that one wants to save?

OTOH, can one use an XP upgrade CD to install XP from scrath? Does
there have to be a prior verssion of Windows installed on the
computer, or can one simulate this by providing the Windows 98FE
upgrade CD or win98SE update CD at some point in the installation?

I have both, I've used both, but I've long thought, maybe incorrectly,
that to install win98SE with nothing but upgrade CD's, I had to first
install Win3.1, then win98, then win98SE and finally WinXP. Are all
these steps needed.

Now I have the idea that full CDs are inferior because they only work
when you don't have windows installed, but upgrade CDs will work all
the time. Yet full CDs cost more money.


Can I use the same CD to install winXP on my laptop and on my desktop?
Or do I have to buy two?


One seller on ebay says he used his upgrade CD only to boot his
laptop, but I have upgrade CDs for win98, 98SE, and ME and they only
allow installation, not booting. I've often wished they allowed
booting. Have I been wrong, or is winXP different, or is this ebay
seller confused?


Is there much advantage to getting XP with SP2, since I can just dl
SP2 from MS and install it? Does that leave a lot of old files on the
computer that I will never want again?





Thanks a lot.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM

 

[Malke]

mm wrote:

Answers inline (incorrect X-posting fixed):

I need to move up to XP and I would very much appreciate some help.

I don't understand the advantages or disadvantages of upgrade versus
full install CDs.

Upgrade CDs are cheaper. Yes, you can do a clean install with an upgrade
CD if you have qualifying media on hand. Review the information at these
links to understand how to install XP:

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/xpupgdissues.html - Upgrade Issues
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/xp_in_place_upgrade.htm - Install In Place
http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html - Clean Install How-To
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Reinstalling_Windows -
What you will need on-hand

Can one use a Full Install CD even when the hard drive has lots of
stuff on it, like a prior version of windows, and email and newsgroup
articles and other files that one wants to save?

Yes. You can upgrade with a full install CD. However, it would be
extremely foolish not to back up all your stuff first.

Now I have the idea that full CDs are inferior because they only work
when you don't have windows installed, but upgrade CDs will work all
the time. Yet full CDs cost more money.

Completely incorrect. Read the links.

Can I use the same CD to install winXP on my laptop and on my desktop?
Or do I have to buy two?

You can use the same CD but you must have two licenses. In effect, that
means for every computer on which you install XP you must pay for a copy
of XP.

One seller on ebay says he used his upgrade CD only to boot his
laptop, but I have upgrade CDs for win98, 98SE, and ME and they only
allow installation, not booting. I've often wished they allowed
booting. Have I been wrong, or is winXP different, or is this ebay
seller confused?

I would not trust anything I read by a seller on eBay nor would I buy an
operating system from eBay. I have no idea what the seller on eBay is
telling you because what you've said makes no sense. I don't know what
you mean by "booting".

Is there much advantage to getting XP with SP2, since I can just dl
SP2 from MS and install it? Does that leave a lot of old files on the
computer that I will never want again?

All current XP installer disks include Service Pack 2, which has been
out for something like 2-1/2 years. There would be no point in
purchasing a pre-SP2 disk. What you are concerned about in the paragraph
above doesn't happen.


Malke

 

[Dozzer]

I need to move up to XP and I would very much appreciate some help.

I don't understand the advantages or disadvantages of upgrade versus
full install CDs.

Their price. (An OEM, Full version is often the cheapest.)

Can one use a Full Install CD even when the hard drive has lots of
stuff on it, like a prior version of windows, and email and newsgroup
articles and other files that one wants to save?

A Retail Full Install CD can do upgrades, an OEM cannot.

If you are thinking of upgrading from the Windows 9x base to XP; don't!
You'll have nothing but problems with your XP installation.

Use the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard to move your data. (It's on the
CD.)

OTOH, can one use an XP upgrade CD to install XP from scrath? Does
there have to be a prior verssion of Windows installed on the
computer, or can one simulate this by providing the Windows 98FE
upgrade CD or win98SE update CD at some point in the installation?

Any version of XP CD can do a full intall, the only difference is having to
show proof that you own a previous version of Windows when you use the
Upgrade version.

I have both, I've used both, but I've long thought, maybe incorrectly,
that to install win98SE with nothing but upgrade CD's, I had to first
install Win3.1, then win98, then win98SE and finally WinXP. Are all
these steps needed.

No. You can boot from an Upgrade version on a system that has _NO_ installed
operating system and do a full, clean installation. You just have to insert
an old version to prove you have it.

Now I have the idea that full CDs are inferior because they only work
when you don't have windows installed, but upgrade CDs will work all
the time. Yet full CDs cost more money.

Where ever you got that opinion, do not ever solicit information from
there/them again.

Can I use the same CD to install winXP on my laptop and on my desktop?
Or do I have to buy two?

You have to buy two licenses. "Office" can be installed on both; not
windows.

One seller on ebay says he used his upgrade CD only to boot his
laptop, but I have upgrade CDs for win98, 98SE, and ME and they only
allow installation, not booting. I've often wished they allowed
booting. Have I been wrong, or is winXP different, or is this ebay
seller confused?

You have been wrong. The seller is correct. Just set you first boot device
to be a CD Drive and watch for the "Hit any key to boot from the CD"
message.

Is there much advantage to getting XP with SP2, since I can just dl
SP2 from MS and install it? Does that leave a lot of old files on the
computer that I will never want again?

A CD with SP2 on it (built that way, or slipstreamed) will give you a more
reliable system. SP3 will be released soon too.

Thanks a lot.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM

We don't do that; keep it in the newsgroup.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I need to move up to XP and I would very much appreciate some help.

I don't understand the advantages or disadvantages of upgrade versus
full install CDs.

They both can do either a clean installation or an upgrade, but doing
a clean installation with an Upgrade CD requires that you have a copy
of a previous qualifying version's to insert as proof of ownership
when prompted to do so.

By the way, note that there is also a third type, an OEM version. An
OEM version can do a clean installation only, and not an upgrade.

Can one use a Full Install CD even when the hard drive has lots of
stuff on it, like a prior version of windows, and email and newsgroup
articles and other files that one wants to save?

Yes, you can do an upgrade installation with a Full version. However,
remember that you can *not* do so with an OEM CD, which many people
confuse with the Retail Full version.

OTOH, can one use an XP upgrade CD to install XP from scrath?

Yes. See above.

Does
there have to be a prior verssion of Windows installed on the
computer,

No.


or can one simulate this by providing the Windows 98FE
upgrade CD or win98SE update CD at some point in the installation?

Yes, but "simulate" isn't really the right word. No simulation is
involved. The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous qualifying version's installation CD, not to have it
installed. You can prove ownership either by having it installed, or
showing it the CD. Either way is acceptable, and either way is
legitimate.

I have both, I've used both, but I've long thought, maybe incorrectly,
that to install win98SE with nothing but upgrade CD's, I had to first
install Win3.1, then win98, then win98SE and finally WinXP. Are all
these steps needed.

No.


Now I have the idea that full CDs are inferior because they only work
when you don't have windows installed,

That's false, See above.

but upgrade CDs will work all
the time. Yet full CDs cost more money.


Can I use the same CD to install winXP on my laptop and on my desktop?

You can use the same physical CD, but you need two licenses. But for
all practical purposes, since the best way to get two licenses is to
buy two CDs (see below,) you need two CDs.

The rule is quite clear. It's one copy (or one license) for each
computer.

There's nothing new here. This is exactly the same rule that's been in
effect on every version of Windows starting with Windows 3.1. The only
thing new with XP is that there's now an enforcement mechanism.

If yours is a retail version, not an OEM one, you can buy extra
licenses (see
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/howtobuy/addlic.asp). But it's
not generally a good deal. The problem is that Microsoft sells
additional licenses at only a small savings over the list price.
You're almost certainly better off just buying a complete second copy
from a discount source.

Or do I have to buy two?

See above.

One seller on ebay says he used his upgrade CD only to boot his
laptop, but I have upgrade CDs for win98, 98SE, and ME and they only
allow installation, not booting. I've often wished they allowed
booting. Have I been wrong, or is winXP different, or is this ebay
seller confused?

Sorry, *I'm confused. What do you mean by "only to boot his laptop"
and "and they only allow installation, not booting"?

Is there much advantage to getting XP with SP2,

You save the download and installation time. That's all. I wouldn't
anything significantly extra for SP2.

since I can just dl
SP2 from MS and install it?

Also bear in mind that SP3 is about to be released. When that occurs,
it will include SP2, so it won't matter whether you bought a CD with
or without it.

Does that leave a lot of old files on the
computer that I will never want again?

No.

 

[mm]

mm wrote:

Answers inline (incorrect X-posting fixed):


Upgrade CDs are cheaper. Yes, you can do a clean install with an upgrade
CD if you have qualifying media on hand. Review the information at these
links to understand how to install XP:

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/xpupgdissues.html - Upgrade Issues
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/xp_in_place_upgrade.htm - Install In Place
http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html - Clean Install How-To
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Reinstalling_Windows -
What you will need on-hand
Thanks.

Yes. You can upgrade with a full install CD. However, it would be
extremely foolish not to back up all your stuff first.

Yes, I would do that of course.

Completely incorrect. Read the links.

I've started on them.

You can use the same CD but you must have two licenses. In effect, that
means for every computer on which you install XP you must pay for a copy
of XP.

Well, in that case, I'm not sure the laptop really needs XP.

Someone told me that it would soon/eventually be hard to buy a copy of
XP, and if that happens, will I still be able to buy another license?

I would not trust anything I read by a seller on eBay nor would I buy an
operating system from eBay. I have no idea what the seller on eBay is
telling you because what you've said makes no sense. I don't know what
you mean by "booting".

I don't know what he meant either. Just quoting.

All current XP installer disks include Service Pack 2, which has been
out for something like 2-1/2 years. There would be no point in
purchasing a pre-SP2 disk. What you are concerned about in the paragraph
above doesn't happen.

Thanks, Malke

Malke

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM

 

[mm]

Their price. (An OEM, Full version is often the cheapest.)


A Retail Full Install CD can do upgrades, an OEM cannot.

That's probably what someone told me, and I lost track of the
difference.

If you are thinking of upgrading from the Windows 9x base to XP; don't!
You'll have nothing but problems with your XP installation.

Use the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard to move your data. (It's on the
CD.)

Thanks. Didn't know about that.

Any version of XP CD can do a full intall, the only difference is having to
show proof that you own a previous version of Windows when you use the
Upgrade version.

Aha! That's not a problem.

No. You can boot from an Upgrade version on a system that has _NO_ installed
operating system and do a full, clean installation. You just have to insert
an old version to prove you have it.
Good.

Where ever you got that opinion, do not ever solicit information from
there/them again.

OK.

You have to buy two licenses. "Office" can be installed on both; not
windows.
OK.

You have been wrong. The seller is correct. Just set you first boot device
to be a CD Drive and watch for the "Hit any key to boot from the CD"
message.

Well, I've been wrong before. OK.

A CD with SP2 on it (built that way, or slipstreamed) will give you a more
reliable system. SP3 will be released soon too.

Tnanks a lot

We don't do that; keep it in the newsgroup.

I don't expect anyone to write me, but once in a while someone wants
to insult me or tell me they know my brother, that sort of thing.
It's the same sig for almost every group.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM

 

[Dozzer]

Well, I've been wrong before. OK.

A lot of what's sold on eBay is HP or Dell Branded OEM versions. There are
two types: one that can be installed on any PC, and one that can only be
installed on an HP or Dell PC. Make sure that you get one that can be
installed on any PC (or the Microsoft Logo'ed one).

Tnanks a lot

Any time.

 

[philo]

I need to move up to XP and I would very much appreciate some help.

I don't understand the advantages or disadvantages of upgrade versus
full install CDs.

Can one use a Full Install CD even when the hard drive has lots of
stuff on it, like a prior version of windows, and email and newsgroup
articles and other files that one wants to save?

OTOH, can one use an XP upgrade CD to install XP from scrath? Does
there have to be a prior verssion of Windows installed on the
computer, or can one simulate this by providing the Windows 98FE
upgrade CD or win98SE update CD at some point in the installation?

I have both, I've used both, but I've long thought, maybe incorrectly,
that to install win98SE with nothing but upgrade CD's, I had to first
install Win3.1, then win98, then win98SE and finally WinXP. Are all
these steps needed.

Now I have the idea that full CDs are inferior because they only work
when you don't have windows installed, but upgrade CDs will work all
the time. Yet full CDs cost more money.


Can I use the same CD to install winXP on my laptop and on my desktop?
Or do I have to buy two?


One seller on ebay says he used his upgrade CD only to boot his
laptop, but I have upgrade CDs for win98, 98SE, and ME and they only
allow installation, not booting. I've often wished they allowed
booting. Have I been wrong, or is winXP different, or is this ebay
seller confused?


Is there much advantage to getting XP with SP2, since I can just dl
SP2 from MS and install it? Does that leave a lot of old files on the
computer that I will never want again?

As long as you have your win98 cd, you can use an XP-upgrade CD to perform a
clean install.
From within the context of the installation, you can totally format your
drive
and install a fresh copy of XP.
During the install, you will be asked to insert a "qualifying product"
You then need to pop in your win98 cd for verification.

Though win98 *can* be upgraded to XP directly...
I really recommend that you backup all your data (confirm the data are good)
then perform a fresh install of XP.

As an authorized Microsoft refurbisher I have literally worked on hundreds
of machines
and performed countless installations and speak from experience.

Though a Win98 system can be upgraded without problems...
there is a fair amount of prep. work needed . It's not going to save any
time over doing a clean install...
then simply reinstalling your apps and copying back your data.

Here are the (approximate) statistics:

1) Win98 to XP upgrade with no problems 50% success rate.

2) Win98 to XP upgrade failed or with major problems 25%

3) Win98 to XP upgrade with subtle problems 25%


Now those figures are not terribly accurate and I put them there just to
give a "ball park" figure.

The real danger is with case 3.

Win98 appears to be upgraded to XP successfully...but one thoroughly
familiar with how XP is supposed to work would be aware that things are just
not right.
The user may think that all was well...but over the next few weeks or months
would become aware of more and more problems. Eventually, the user would
either think that XP
was not such a great product...or realize simply that the upgrade did not
work...and end up having to perform a clean install anyway.

Believe me... I am a full time experimenter and have used a large number of
operating systems (Linux, OS/2, BSD, Solaris, BeOS, QNX ...etc) and XP is
right up
there at the top of the list as the best possible operating system for most
users...so might as well do it right and perform a clean install. That way
it's assured that
no leftover problems from win98 are inherited.

Finally:
I know that there are a few well knowledgeable folks who may suggest that
you backup your data and give the upgrade a try. The logic is that if it
works...then that's fine...and if it does not work...then go ahead an
perform the clean install.
That logic is sound enough were it not for case 3 (above).

 

[Lil' Dave]

I need to move up to XP and I would very much appreciate some help.

I don't understand the advantages or disadvantages of upgrade versus
full install CDs.

Can one use a Full Install CD even when the hard drive has lots of
stuff on it, like a prior version of windows, and email and newsgroup
articles and other files that one wants to save?

OTOH, can one use an XP upgrade CD to install XP from scrath? Does
there have to be a prior verssion of Windows installed on the
computer, or can one simulate this by providing the Windows 98FE
upgrade CD or win98SE update CD at some point in the installation?

The windows 98 Second Edition updates CD only works in the windows 98
environment, similar to the XP SP2 CD for XP. Cannot be used for an upgrade
qualifier.

I have both, I've used both, but I've long thought, maybe incorrectly,
that to install win98SE with nothing but upgrade CD's, I had to first
install Win3.1, then win98, then win98SE and finally WinXP. Are all
these steps needed.

No.

Now I have the idea that full CDs are inferior because they only work
when you don't have windows installed, but upgrade CDs will work all
the time. Yet full CDs cost more money.

Full install (retail) installation CDs will do an upgrade. OEM generic will
not. Yes, the upgrade version of XP is usually cheaper than the retail full
version. The price difference between retail upgrade and OEM generic is
usually insignificant.

Can I use the same CD to install winXP on my laptop and on my desktop?

If the XP install has the appropriate hardware drivers for your hardware,
yes.

Or do I have to buy two?

If you intend to activate both, yes.

One seller on ebay says he used his upgrade CD only to boot his
laptop, but I have upgrade CDs for win98, 98SE, and ME and they only

No, you've already stated you have the 98SE update CD, not the upgrade.

allow installation, not booting. I've often wished they allowed
booting. Have I been wrong, or is winXP different, or is this ebay
seller confused?


Is there much advantage to getting XP with SP2, since I can just dl
SP2 from MS and install it? Does that leave a lot of old files on the
computer that I will never want again?

Current installation versions of XP come with SP2 already inserted. You're
going to need SP2 for security purposes, so the argument is moot.

Dave

 

[PhantMan]

As long as you have your win98 cd, you can use an XP-upgrade CD to perform a
clean install.
From within the context of the installation, you can totally format your
drive and install a fresh copy of XP.

When you get to the "Format" part, is there an option to switch to
NTFS when upgrading from Win98?

Rick

 

[Julie]

When you get to the "Format" part, is there an option to switch to
NTFS when upgrading from Win98?

Delete the Partition and make a new one.

 

[PhantMan]

Delete the Partition and make a new one.

Okay, thanks. That'll take care of C:
Also, I have a second harddrive that's currently partitioned into
Drives E:, F:, and G: So while I'm at it, will I also have the
option to delete those three partitions and create just one on that
harddrive?

Rick

 

[PhantMan]

I have a second harddrive that's currently partitioned into
Drives E:, F:, and G: So while I'm at it, will I also have the
option to delete those three partitions and create just one on that
harddrive?

Ooops... it's partitioned into four. D, E, F, and G, if that matters.
But now I'd like to combine them into just one big honkin' NTFS drive.

Rick

 

[Julie]

Ooops... it's partitioned into four. D, E, F, and G, if that matters.
But now I'd like to combine them into just one big honkin' NTFS drive.

Wait until you have XP up and running then use XP's Disk Management to
modify their constuct. (Right click on My Computer... 'Manage')

 

[PhantMan]

Wait until you have XP up and running then use XP's Disk Management to
modify their constuct. (Right click on My Computer... 'Manage')

Thank you m'am

Rick

 

[Julie]

Thank you m'am

You're welcome.

 

[Malke]

When you get to the "Format" part, is there an option to switch to
NTFS when upgrading from Win98?

Yes, you have a choice as to what file system to use for the format. NTFS is
best for XP.

http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html - Clean Install How-To
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Reinstalling_Windows - What
you will need on-hand

Malke