Upgrade steps-first CPU then video card?

[Don F]

Years ago (before on board video card processors) performance was largely
a function of CPU speed.
I owned a Voodoo 3 3000 until about a year ago and I noticed a jump in
performance when I went from an 800 Mhz CPU to a 1.2 Ghz CPU. I replaced
the Voodoo card with a Radeon 8500 (same system) and the performance
improvement was unbelievable which brings up a question.
If someone is on a limited budget, is it better to upgrade the video card
first an then later upgrade the CPU/motherboard.
I get, from reading the posts here, that the 9700 pro when used in a slow
system, is not going to perform well.
I guess my question should be "are the present video card with on board
processors as dependent on system speed as the older video cards?"
My apologies if the question seems trivial but I am still in the learning
process.
TIA
Don F

 

[Ben Pope]

Years ago (before on board video card processors) performance was
largely a function of CPU speed.
I owned a Voodoo 3 3000 until about a year ago and I noticed a jump in
performance when I went from an 800 Mhz CPU to a 1.2 Ghz CPU. I replaced
the Voodoo card with a Radeon 8500 (same system) and the performance
improvement was unbelievable which brings up a question.
If someone is on a limited budget, is it better to upgrade the video
card first an then later upgrade the CPU/motherboard.

That depends on their current processor and vido card.

I get, from reading the posts here, that the 9700 pro when used in a
slow system, is not going to perform well.

How slow is slow?

I guess my question should be "are the present video card with on board
processors as dependent on system speed as the older video cards?"

Yes, to an extent. A lot of the newer games use much more complicated AI
and other stuff that cannot be offloaded to the GPU (Graphics Processing
Unit). Additionally, all of the data has to start off at the CPU - cards
now do T&L, which means you can dump world co-ordinates at the GPU and it
converts (transforms) those into screen coordinates and deals with the
lighting. They also do all of the trickery with respect to textures.

It's my understanding that the CPU still has to convert object coordinates
into world coordinates which is probably a 3x3 matrix applied to each point
in the "world" as any changes in the game require the models or camera to
move and this is usually under control of the AI or user. So the CPU still
has quite a bit or work to do with respect to 3d manipulation.

It's possible that object -> world coordinate conversion is done on the
video card, but the CPU still has to deal with interactions / collision
detection etc.

Ben

 

[Don F]

That depends on their current processor and vido card.


How slow is slow?


Yes, to an extent. A lot of the newer games use much more complicated AI
and other stuff that cannot be offloaded to the GPU (Graphics Processing
Unit). Additionally, all of the data has to start off at the CPU - cards
now do T&L, which means you can dump world co-ordinates at the GPU and it
converts (transforms) those into screen coordinates and deals with the
lighting. They also do all of the trickery with respect to textures.

It's my understanding that the CPU still has to convert object coordinates
into world coordinates which is probably a 3x3 matrix applied to each point
in the "world" as any changes in the game require the models or camera to
move and this is usually under control of the AI or user. So the CPU still
has quite a bit or work to do with respect to 3d manipulation.

It's possible that object -> world coordinate conversion is done on the
video card, but the CPU still has to deal with interactions / collision
detection etc.

Ben

------------------
Thanks for the informative reply, Ben.
You asked mentioned that 9800 pro performance improvement depended on my
present speed and my present video card.
My present system:
------------------------
Windows XP Pro w/SP1
MB - Asus A7V133-BIOS 1006
CPU - Athlon 1.2 GHz
RAM - 768 MB
Video- ATI Radeon 8500
Sound- SB Live MP3+
----------------------
I guess my new question would be "which should I upgrade first -- my
MB/CPU/RAM or my video board to 9700 - 9800".
I am not a serious gamer but I am looking forward to HL 2 and now enjoy MS
Flt Sim 2004. I would like to be ready for HL 2 when it finally arrives.
TIA
Don F
Don

 

[Ben Pope]

Thanks for the informative reply, Ben.
You asked mentioned that 9800 pro performance improvement depended on my
present speed and my present video card.
My present system:
------------------------
Windows XP Pro w/SP1
MB - Asus A7V133-BIOS 1006
CPU - Athlon 1.2 GHz
RAM - 768 MB
Video- ATI Radeon 8500
Sound- SB Live MP3+
----------------------
I guess my new question would be "which should I upgrade first -- my
MB/CPU/RAM or my video board to 9700 - 9800".
I am not a serious gamer but I am looking forward to HL 2 and now enjoy
MS Flt Sim 2004. I would like to be ready for HL 2 when it finally
arrives. TIA

I wouldn't expect you to be able to play HL2 on a 1.2GHz Athlon, but I may
be wrong. HL2 is suppsoed be able to scale quite nicely for older Vid cards
though, although I also wouldn't expect you to be able to play HL2 all that
well with the 8500.

I'd say go for new CPU / RAM / Motherboard first. That'll give the 8500 a
new lease of life. then go for the video card - at that time the R360
should be out and the price of the 9800 may come down.

If you want to go with just a CPU you may find the motherboard to be a
little restrictive... what version of the AGP does it support, and does it
do DDR?

Ben

 

[Don F]

If you want to go with just a CPU you may find the motherboard to be a
little restrictive... what version of the AGP does it support, and does it
do DDR?

Ben
--

 

[John David Carter]

Thanks for the informative reply, Ben.
You asked mentioned that 9800 pro performance improvement depended on my
present speed and my present video card.
My present system:
------------------------
Windows XP Pro w/SP1
MB - Asus A7V133-BIOS 1006
CPU - Athlon 1.2 GHz
RAM - 768 MB
Video- ATI Radeon 8500
Sound- SB Live MP3+
----------------------
I guess my new question would be "which should I upgrade first -- my
MB/CPU/RAM or my video board to 9700 - 9800".
I am not a serious gamer but I am looking forward to HL 2 and now enjoy MS
Flt Sim 2004. I would like to be ready for HL 2 when it finally arrives.
TIA
Don F
Don

Hmmm...

Prices on mobos and cpus are sorta stable right now...

I'd go with the MB/CPU/RAM, and wait on the 9700/9800...

They say that there may be ATI bundles with include HL2, but irregardless
the prices on videocards are still falling.

I just got a 9800pro for $329, but I really wanted the 9800pro DDR2 256mb
version...

Sigh...

I couldn't justify $329, much less $449!!!

 

[Ben Pope]

I don't know what version of the AGP the MB uses but it supports 133
Mhz ... 4X mode only and no DDR support. I think it's time for a new MB.
Any suggestions?

I'm happy with my A7N8X Deluxe / XP 2500+ combo.

The Abit NF7-S is supposed to be good too.

I highly recommend nForce2

Ben

 

[Don F]

I'm happy with my A7N8X Deluxe / XP 2500+ combo.

The Abit NF7-S is supposed to be good too.
I highly recommend nForce2

Ben

 

[Lester Piglet]

I've had both the asus deluxe and the Abit nf7-s, they are both very good
boards but I had issues with my asus. You shouldn't buy anything except an
nforce board at the moment, it cant be beaten for performance.
The nforce and Barton 2500 is a wonderful combination.

--
Les Ross
Certified by a
Professional