Undeletable file. I'm stumped.


Z

Zaphod Beeblebrox

I am not wrong about running Ubuntu Live and it ruins Windows and makes
it unbootable. That I am positive about. The exact conditions that
causes this, I am not sure about. I also never seen it happen from
Ubuntu Live CD yet (although Monica has). I personally have just seen it
happen on a flash.
And so it begins - this whole thread has been about Ubuntu Live CD and
now you say this? You are following true to form and have now begun
changing the claim.
Testing it in 2 minutes? Naw... I even have the very same flash card
that I used for Ubuntu Live. Although it has BartPE on it now. Plus I
need to back it up and then use unetbootin-windows-299.exe to image
ubuntu-eee-8.04.1.iso on the exact same flash. Then run Ubuntu Live from
the flash and it will toast the Windows XP install on the EeePC.
What I said (if your reading comprehension was up to it) is that your
scenario as described could be reduced to a 2 minute test. Go back,
re-read what you posted, then what I posted, and maybe the light bulb
will turn on...

--
Zaphod

Adventurer, ex-hippie, good-timer (crook? quite possibly),
manic self-publicist, terrible bad at personal relationships,
often thought to be completely out to lunch.
 
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B

BillW50

In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
And so it begins - this whole thread has been about Ubuntu Live CD and
now you say this? You are following true to form and have now begun
changing the claim.
Nope, I said that from the very beginning...

On 9/7/2012 3:43 PM, BillW50 wrote:
It happened on this very machine back in 2009, and booting up
Ubuntu Live 8.10 from a SD card. This XP has the swapfile
turned off because it runs from a SSD. And booting Ubuntu Live
and doing absolutely nothing from it except shutting it down
once it is loaded. Then booting XP back up and the background
of the desktop shows up, no taskbar yet, and a window saying
Windows Installer and nothing else and it stills there forever.

The part that I got wrong was it wasn't Ubuntu 8.10 but rather Ubuntu
eee 8.04.1. Also for a number of years I thought this happened around
January 2009. Although reading posts yesterday I made on the eeeuser
forum right after it happened it was actually November of 2008.
What I said (if your reading comprehension was up to it) is that your
scenario as described could be reduced to a 2 minute test. Go back,
re-read what you posted, then what I posted, and maybe the light bulb
will turn on...
Believe whatever you want. You do anyway. You even believe I didn't say
a flash drive when I did. And yes, it is still Ubuntu Live just like the
iso copy is.
 
G

glee

BillW50 said:
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:

Nope, I said that from the very beginning...

On 9/7/2012 3:43 PM, BillW50 wrote:
It happened on this very machine back in 2009, and booting up
Ubuntu Live 8.10 from a SD card. This XP has the swapfile
turned off because it runs from a SSD. And booting Ubuntu Live
and doing absolutely nothing from it except shutting it down
once it is loaded. Then booting XP back up and the background
of the desktop shows up, no taskbar yet, and a window saying
Windows Installer and nothing else and it stills there forever.

The part that I got wrong was it wasn't Ubuntu 8.10 but rather Ubuntu
eee 8.04.1. Also for a number of years I thought this happened around
January 2009. Although reading posts yesterday I made on the eeeuser
forum right after it happened it was actually November of 2008.


Believe whatever you want. You do anyway. You even believe I didn't
say a flash drive when I did. And yes, it is still Ubuntu Live just
like the iso copy is.
Whether booting it froma CD or from USB stick, it is the exact same
image from the ISO, so the clarification that you used a memory card to
boot instead of a CD should not matter at all. I don't see the
relevance of it.
 
G

glee

BillW50 said:
In Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:

Apparently you two don't know me too well. As I am more interested in
the truth and I could careless if I was wrong about something. Nor am
I afraid to admit that I do make mistakes from time to time.

Now Philo says that Linux can't do anything to the Windows drive
unless you mount it first. I told Philo I did not mount the Windows
drive. Now Joe Internet Jun 24 '11 at 17:38 says:

Most Linux live-cds boot into a desktop environment, so you
just open the file manager and delete your files. Not all,
however, automatically mount NTFS partitions. Two that I know
of that do mount them are Ubuntu and Centos.

http://superuser.com/questions/301669/how-to-delete-old-pagefile-sys-and-hiberfile-sys-on-secondary-disk-old-windows

If true, that solves that problem. As I didn't mount the Windows
drive, but Ubuntu did.

Now Char mentioned me stating that I found an old post of mine that
said restoring the Windows registry with ERUNT also fixed Windows XP
after Ubuntu Live corrupted it somehow. Yes that is puzzling to me
too. As one wouldn't think that Ubuntu would be messing around the
Windows registry for any reason.

I'm still looking for the post where that guy know told me what he
thinks what went wrong was Ubuntu created a Windows swapfile to use
for itself. Until I find it, I have to rely on my memory.

So I have a theory that might put everything together. If Ubuntu
automatically mounts NTFS like Joe Internet says. And my understanding
is that Ubuntu will grab a Linux swap partition if it can find one. If
it can't, then according to the post I am looking for says Ubuntu will
seek out a Windows pagefile and use that one. And according to that
post, if Windows doesn't have one, Ubuntu will create one there.

Now if the above is true, I think I know what happened. Windows now
tries to boot, finds a swapfile and the registry says no swapfile.
Windows gets confused and makes changes to Windows registry and
deletes the swapfile. Which results into an unbootable Windows.
"Joe Internet" either is incorrect or has been very unclear.... Ubuntu
and Centos Live CD's don't automatically mount, and don't automatically
write to, the Windows partition. There are references explaining that
all over if you do an in-depth search.
There were many examples in Ubuntu forums and in Ubuntu's informational
pages. I can only surmise that "Joe Internet" is misusing, or you are
misusing, the term "mount". The drive is listed in Places on the Ubuntu
menu, but it is not mounted, and made available for reads or writes,
until you double-click it there, specifically making it available.

This says it as clearly as can be:
Mounting Windows Partitions in Ubuntu
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/mountwindows

As for CentOS... no, it does not automatically mount the Windows
partitions either.
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34892

In fact, even installing a Linux distro to the hard drive does not mean
it will automatically mount an already-existing Windows partition:
How To Mount Partitions Automatically On Startup In Linux
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/how-to-mount-partitions-automatically.html

Also, there is a big difference between "mounting" a partition and
actually using it for storage or for a swap file. Linux Live CDs will
not create a swap file on the hard drive unless a specific parameter is
added during boot.... they won't use the OS-specific Windows page file,
which is not usable by Linux. They certainly won't create a Windows
page file for use as a Linux swap file, that's just a preposterous
idea.... Linux does not make a Windows page file.

Slax, for example, will only make a swap file (it's own, NOT a Windows
page file, which Linux cannot use) if a specific parameter is added by
the user at boot: fileswap
http://static.raymond.cc/images/slax-login.png
 
B

BillW50

"Joe Internet" either is incorrect or has been very unclear.... Ubuntu
and Centos Live CD's don't automatically mount, and don't automatically
write to, the Windows partition. There are references explaining that
all over if you do an in-depth search.
There were many examples in Ubuntu forums and in Ubuntu's informational
pages. I can only surmise that "Joe Internet" is misusing, or you are
misusing, the term "mount". The drive is listed in Places on the Ubuntu
menu, but it is not mounted, and made available for reads or writes,
until you double-click it there, specifically making it available.
Well I used Ubuntu Live on a Windows machine only just briefly back in
2008 when the mishap occurred. Then until just recently tried it again.
So I don't have much experience what it normally does or not yet.
This says it as clearly as can be:
Mounting Windows Partitions in Ubuntu
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/mountwindows

As for CentOS... no, it does not automatically mount the Windows
partitions either.
https://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34892

In fact, even installing a Linux distro to the hard drive does not mean
it will automatically mount an already-existing Windows partition:
How To Mount Partitions Automatically On Startup In Linux
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/how-to-mount-partitions-automatically.html
Ok I am with ya.
Also, there is a big difference between "mounting" a partition and
actually using it for storage or for a swap file. Linux Live CDs will
not create a swap file on the hard drive unless a specific parameter is
added during boot.... they won't use the OS-specific Windows page file,
which is not usable by Linux. They certainly won't create a Windows
page file for use as a Linux swap file, that's just a preposterous
idea.... Linux does not make a Windows page file.
Whoa! I found lots of URLs yesterday telling you how to use the Windows
swapfile under Linux. Although I couldn't find anybody recommend it.
Since it takes a performance hit when doing so. They seem to suggest it
is most useful when you don't have the disk space for a Linux swap
partition. I even found the opposite is true. That Windows can use a
Linux swap partition with a special driver. Although I also hear tell it
also contains bugs. Although what I was looking for was if Linux could
automatically use the Windows swapfile. And I couldn't find anybody
saying that so far.
Slax, for example, will only make a swap file (it's own, NOT a Windows
page file, which Linux cannot use) if a specific parameter is added by
the user at boot: fileswap
http://static.raymond.cc/images/slax-login.png
How does Linux run in a Windows partition? What does WUBI use for swap?

http://www.howtoforge.com/wubi_ubuntu_on_windows
 
G

glee

replies inline...
BillW50 said:
Well I used Ubuntu Live on a Windows machine only just briefly back in
2008 when the mishap occurred. Then until just recently tried it
again. So I don't have much experience what it normally does or not
yet.


Ok I am with ya.


Whoa! I found lots of URLs yesterday telling you how to use the
Windows swapfile under Linux. Although I couldn't find anybody
recommend it. Since it takes a performance hit when doing so. They
seem to suggest it is most useful when you don't have the disk space
for a Linux swap partition. I even found the opposite is true. That
Windows can use a Linux swap partition with a special driver. Although
I also hear tell it also contains bugs. Although what I was looking
for was if Linux could automatically use the Windows swapfile. And I
couldn't find anybody saying that so far.
I've seen a few mentions of it, but it requires a lot of tweaking plus a
series of parameters at every startup to work, is not "supported", and
definitely is not done by any distributions of Linux. It's something
that's been played with by some users, but you won't find it as even an
alternative on a Live CD as far as I know.
Going the other way... Windows using the Linux swap space... calls for a
third-party driver, so again it is not a normally available feature.
How does Linux run in a Windows partition? What does WUBI use for
swap?

http://www.howtoforge.com/wubi_ubuntu_on_windows
Wubi is a whole different animal, it isn't relevant to the Live CD
discussion. It install Ubuntu to a FILE rather than a partition. It
uses a loop device, a file containing (or appearing to contain) a file
system, so that Linux can mount and install to the file as if it were a
disk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_device
 
B

BillW50

replies inline...


I've seen a few mentions of it, but it requires a lot of tweaking plus a
series of parameters at every startup to work, is not "supported", and
definitely is not done by any distributions of Linux. It's something
that's been played with by some users, but you won't find it as even an
alternative on a Live CD as far as I know.
[snip]

Naw... it is very easy to do even permanently.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now permanently... you need an entry in your /etc/fstab file that looks
like this:
...
/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0
...
You're done!

Sharing a swap file with linux and windows
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linuxquestions-org-member-success-stories-23/sharing-a-swap-file-with-linux-and-windows-109511/
 
G

glee

BillW50 said:
replies inline...


I've seen a few mentions of it, but it requires a lot of tweaking
plus a
series of parameters at every startup to work, is not "supported",
and
definitely is not done by any distributions of Linux. It's something
that's been played with by some users, but you won't find it as even
an
alternative on a Live CD as far as I know.
[snip]

Naw... it is very easy to do even permanently.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now permanently... you need an entry in your /etc/fstab file that
looks like this:
..
/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0
..
You're done!

Sharing a swap file with linux and windows
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linuxquestions-org-member-success-stories-23/sharing-a-swap-file-with-linux-and-windows-109511/

Yes...that's the series of parameters that have to be added so they run
at every boot, as I stated.
Matters not as far as a Live CD goes.... no standard Live CD is going to
come this way... and it's Live CDs that we're talking about.
 
B

BillW50

BillW50 said:
replies inline...
news:k2vnqi$fn0$1@dont-email.me... [snip]
Whoa! I found lots of URLs yesterday telling you how to use the
Windows swapfile under Linux. Although I couldn't find anybody
recommend it. Since it takes a performance hit when doing so. They
seem to suggest it is most useful when you don't have the disk space
for a Linux swap partition...

I've seen a few mentions of it, but it requires a lot of tweaking plus a
series of parameters at every startup to work, is not "supported", and
definitely is not done by any distributions of Linux. It's something
that's been played with by some users, but you won't find it as even an
alternative on a Live CD as far as I know.
[snip]

Naw... it is very easy to do even permanently.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now permanently... you need an entry in your /etc/fstab file that
looks like this:
..
/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0
..
You're done!

Sharing a swap file with linux and windows
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linuxquestions-org-member-success-stories-23/sharing-a-swap-file-with-linux-and-windows-109511/
Yes...that's the series of parameters that have to be added so they run
at every boot, as I stated.
Matters not as far as a Live CD goes.... no standard Live CD is going to
come this way... and it's Live CDs that we're talking about.
That isn't how I understand it.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[makes or adjusts pagefile.sys for Linux use]

swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[sets pagefile.sys as swapfile]

If the two above has no problems you are good to modify the fstab file.

/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0

Now it is permanent. Now you boot up and it automatically uses the
Windows swapfile. Works for live versions too. If Windows actually uses
it too, you need to add this in your /etc/rc.sysinit file so Linux can
adjust it for Linux.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now you simply bootup and the Windows swapfile will be used by Linux
with every boot. No series of parameters to add or anything.
 
G

glee

BillW50 said:
BillW50 said:
On 9/14/2012 4:06 PM, glee wrote:
replies inline...
[snip]
Whoa! I found lots of URLs yesterday telling you how to use the
Windows swapfile under Linux. Although I couldn't find anybody
recommend it. Since it takes a performance hit when doing so. They
seem to suggest it is most useful when you don't have the disk
space
for a Linux swap partition...

I've seen a few mentions of it, but it requires a lot of tweaking
plus a
series of parameters at every startup to work, is not "supported",
and
definitely is not done by any distributions of Linux. It's
something
that's been played with by some users, but you won't find it as
even an
alternative on a Live CD as far as I know.
[snip]

Naw... it is very easy to do even permanently.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now permanently... you need an entry in your /etc/fstab file that
looks like this:
..
/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0
..
You're done!

Sharing a swap file with linux and windows
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linuxquestions-org-member-success-stories-23/sharing-a-swap-file-with-linux-and-windows-109511/
Yes...that's the series of parameters that have to be added so they
run
at every boot, as I stated.
Matters not as far as a Live CD goes.... no standard Live CD is going
to
come this way... and it's Live CDs that we're talking about.
That isn't how I understand it.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[makes or adjusts pagefile.sys for Linux use]

swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[sets pagefile.sys as swapfile]

If the two above has no problems you are good to modify the fstab
file.

/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0

Now it is permanent. Now you boot up and it automatically uses the
Windows swapfile. Works for live versions too. If Windows actually
uses it too, you need to add this in your /etc/rc.sysinit file so
Linux can adjust it for Linux.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now you simply bootup and the Windows swapfile will be used by Linux
with every boot. No series of parameters to add or anything.
I'm stating the same thing. By adding them to fstab, they are making
the change at every boot.... they run at every boot.
It isn't something that is built into any Live CD, which is the original
point of this discussion.
 
B

BillW50

In glee typed:
BillW50 said:
On 9/14/2012 4:06 PM, glee wrote:
replies inline...
[snip]
Whoa! I found lots of URLs yesterday telling you how to use the
Windows swapfile under Linux. Although I couldn't find anybody
recommend it. Since it takes a performance hit when doing so.
They seem to suggest it is most useful when you don't have the
disk space
for a Linux swap partition...

I've seen a few mentions of it, but it requires a lot of tweaking
plus a
series of parameters at every startup to work, is not "supported",
and
definitely is not done by any distributions of Linux. It's
something
that's been played with by some users, but you won't find it as
even an
alternative on a Live CD as far as I know.
[snip]

Naw... it is very easy to do even permanently.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now permanently... you need an entry in your /etc/fstab file that
looks like this:
..
/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0
..
You're done!

Sharing a swap file with linux and windows
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linuxquestions-org-member-success-stories-23/sharing-a-swap-file-with-linux-and-windows-109511/


Yes...that's the series of parameters that have to be added so they
run
at every boot, as I stated.
Matters not as far as a Live CD goes.... no standard Live CD is
going to
come this way... and it's Live CDs that we're talking about.
That isn't how I understand it.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[makes or adjusts pagefile.sys for Linux use]

swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[sets pagefile.sys as swapfile]

If the two above has no problems you are good to modify the fstab
file.

/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0

Now it is permanent. Now you boot up and it automatically uses the
Windows swapfile. Works for live versions too. If Windows actually
uses it too, you need to add this in your /etc/rc.sysinit file so
Linux can adjust it for Linux.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now you simply bootup and the Windows swapfile will be used by Linux
with every boot. No series of parameters to add or anything.
I'm stating the same thing. By adding them to fstab, they are making
the change at every boot.... they run at every boot.
It isn't something that is built into any Live CD, which is the
original point of this discussion.
Oh wow! I never thought of it like that. Using that logic, Windows isn't
compatible with most PCs. As Windows uses the Windows registry to change
from the defaults. And it does this with every boot with every single
Windows install out there. Thus when you change the way Linux boots, but
only using what is supplied in the stock system. I personally call this
as built in support. I am not sure why you don't?
 
C

Char Jackson

Oh wow! I never thought of it like that. Using that logic, Windows isn't
compatible with most PCs. As Windows uses the Windows registry to change
from the defaults. And it does this with every boot with every single
Windows install out there. Thus when you change the way Linux boots, but
only using what is supplied in the stock system. I personally call this
as built in support. I am not sure why you don't?
A word of advice: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
 
C

Char Jackson

I'm not in a hole, but on the top of the world.
Look around, make sure you aren't in China. You've been digging so
long you might have popped out the other side.
 
Ad

Advertisements

G

glee

BillW50 said:
In glee typed:
[snip]
Whoa! I found lots of URLs yesterday telling you how to use the
Windows swapfile under Linux. Although I couldn't find anybody
recommend it. Since it takes a performance hit when doing so.
They seem to suggest it is most useful when you don't have the
disk space
for a Linux swap partition...

I've seen a few mentions of it, but it requires a lot of tweaking
plus a
series of parameters at every startup to work, is not
"supported",
and
definitely is not done by any distributions of Linux. It's
something
that's been played with by some users, but you won't find it as
even an
alternative on a Live CD as far as I know.
[snip]

Naw... it is very easy to do even permanently.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now permanently... you need an entry in your /etc/fstab file that
looks like this:
..
/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0
..
You're done!

Sharing a swap file with linux and windows
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linuxquestions-org-member-success-stories-23/sharing-a-swap-file-with-linux-and-windows-109511/


Yes...that's the series of parameters that have to be added so they
run
at every boot, as I stated.
Matters not as far as a Live CD goes.... no standard Live CD is
going to
come this way... and it's Live CDs that we're talking about.

That isn't how I understand it.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[makes or adjusts pagefile.sys for Linux use]

swapon /mnt/data/pagefile.sys
[sets pagefile.sys as swapfile]

If the two above has no problems you are good to modify the fstab
file.

/mnt/data/pagefile.sys swap swap defaults 0 0

Now it is permanent. Now you boot up and it automatically uses the
Windows swapfile. Works for live versions too. If Windows actually
uses it too, you need to add this in your /etc/rc.sysinit file so
Linux can adjust it for Linux.

mkswap /mnt/data/pagefile.sys

Now you simply bootup and the Windows swapfile will be used by Linux
with every boot. No series of parameters to add or anything.
I'm stating the same thing. By adding them to fstab, they are making
the change at every boot.... they run at every boot.
It isn't something that is built into any Live CD, which is the
original point of this discussion.
Oh wow! I never thought of it like that. Using that logic, Windows
isn't compatible with most PCs. As Windows uses the Windows registry
to change from the defaults. And it does this with every boot with
every single Windows install out there. Thus when you change the way
Linux boots, but only using what is supplied in the stock system. I
personally call this as built in support. I am not sure why you don't?
No, actually there is no comparison between what the fstab file does in
Linux, and what Windows does with the Registry or any other config file.
The fstab file is primarily used for partition mounting and file system
configuration. Windows does not need user commands stored anywhere, to
mount volumes or determine file systems... they are mounted
automatically in Windows using info in the partition tables. The NTFS
file system stores mounts as NTFS junctions. Only drive letter
assignments are kept in the Registry, for the already-mounted volumes.
 

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