Undeletable file. I'm stumped.


S

slate_leeper

XP Professional, SP2. 500gb SATA drive, using 74gig.

This is a left-over file that was not removed by the program's
uninstall routine.

Trying to delete it results in the "locked or in use" error.

File Assassin's "unlock" routine reports that the file is not locked.
However File's Assassin's "delete file" command results in "unable to
delete."

"Unlocker" reports it can not delete the file.

Two different "delete on reboot" utilities have not removed it.

Searching with Process Explorer for the process does not find it
running.

Searching for it as a startup item with Autoruns does not find it.

Chkdsk reports no errors on the drive.

So how do I remove this file?

-dan z-



__

__
Those who live by the sword
get shot by those who don't.
 
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V

VanguardLH

slate_leeper said:
XP Professional, SP2. 500gb SATA drive, using 74gig.

This is a left-over file that was not removed by the program's
uninstall routine.

Trying to delete it results in the "locked or in use" error.
...
So how do I remove this file?
And the mystery file is named what? And in what path? For all me know
from the lack of info on the file is that you are attempting to delete a
system file.
__

__
Those who live by the sword
get shot by those who don't.
Learn how to properly configure your NNTP client to add a signature.
Yours was *not* a signature at all but instead in the body of your post
(so your wannabe signature became fluff *in* the body of your post).
Two underscores and a newline is NOT a proper signature delimiter line.
A correct sigdash line is "-- \n" (dash dash space newline). Adding 2
invalid signature delimiter lines (your 2 underscores) also doesn't
define a proper sigdash line.

You are using Forte Agent. According to its own users, that client does
NOT automatically insert a proper signature delimiter. YOU have to add
the "-- " line at the start of your signature content.
 
P

philo

XP Professional, SP2. 500gb SATA drive, using 74gig.

This is a left-over file that was not removed by the program's
uninstall routine.

Trying to delete it results in the "locked or in use" error.

File Assassin's "unlock" routine reports that the file is not locked.
However File's Assassin's "delete file" command results in "unable to
delete."
<snip>



First off: boot to safe mode, you should be able to delete it from there.
If that does not work, boot from a Linux live cd...for sure you will be
able to delete it then. (I'd probably rename it first just in case it
ends up being some file needed for booting)
 
B

BillW50

In
philo said:
<snip>

First off: boot to safe mode, you should be able to delete it from
there. If that does not work, boot from a Linux live cd...for sure
you will be able to delete it then. (I'd probably rename it first
just in case it ends up being some file needed for booting)
Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows didn't have
a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And Ubuntu Live doesn't
care and makes it's own in the Windows partition. I have no idea why
Linux needs to touch anything it shouldn't, but it does. And when I
booted Windows after Ubuntu Live it popped up a window saying Windows
Installer and froze. I much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play
games with your partition like Linux does.
 
P

philo

In

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows didn't have
a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And Ubuntu Live doesn't
care and makes it's own in the Windows partition. I have no idea why
Linux needs to touch anything it shouldn't, but it does. And when I
booted Windows after Ubuntu Live it popped up a window saying Windows
Installer and froze. I much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play
games with your partition like Linux does.

Thanks for the info...
 
Z

Zaphod Beeblebrox

In

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows didn't have
a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And Ubuntu Live doesn't
care and makes it's own in the Windows partition. I have no idea why
Linux needs to touch anything it shouldn't, but it does. And when I
booted Windows after Ubuntu Live it popped up a window saying Windows
Installer and froze. I much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play
games with your partition like Linux does.
<rant>

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you, this
reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live CDs, including
Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for better than a decade and
what you describe just doesn't happen and I'll wager has never
happened. First, Linux Live CDs don't auto-mount hard drive
partitions, they must be manually mounted by the user. Second, Linux
Live CDs don't use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap *file* by
default it uses a swap *partition* so it would have completely
flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the deep end and
decided to use your drive as swap on its own. Fourth, even if it did
use a swap file, that file would have been just that, a file on the
file system separate from anything else and Windows wouldn't have cared
a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

</rant>

--
Zaphod

Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's
something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the
universe gets that.
 
S

slate_leeper

Please be MORE specific such as the fully qualified name and path to the
file in question.
c:\Program FIles\cleanmem\mini_monitor.exe
In the mean time... Use Sysintgern als Process Explorer.

Go to; Find --> File handle or DLL
enter the name of the file in question and see what running process may have
that file's File Handle held open.
Already done. From above:
Searching with Process Explorer for the process does not find it
running.

Thanks for the reply.



__
Those who live by the sword
get shot by those who don't.
 
C

Char Jackson

<rant>

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you, this
reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live CDs, including
Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for better than a decade and
what you describe just doesn't happen and I'll wager has never
happened. First, Linux Live CDs don't auto-mount hard drive
partitions, they must be manually mounted by the user. Second, Linux
Live CDs don't use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap *file* by
default it uses a swap *partition* so it would have completely
flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the deep end and
decided to use your drive as swap on its own. Fourth, even if it did
use a swap file, that file would have been just that, a file on the
file system separate from anything else and Windows wouldn't have cared
a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

</rant>
+1

You nailed it.
 
P

philo

<rant>

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you, this
reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live CDs, including
Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for better than a decade and
what you describe just doesn't happen and I'll wager has never
happened. First, Linux Live CDs don't auto-mount hard drive
partitions, they must be manually mounted by the user. Second, Linux
Live CDs don't use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap *file* by
default it uses a swap *partition* so it would have completely
flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the deep end and
decided to use your drive as swap on its own. Fourth, even if it did
use a swap file, that file would have been just that, a file on the
file system separate from anything else and Windows wouldn't have cared
a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

</rant>

Now that I think of it you are right...
the user must have made some other error.
Not only is it true about Linux using a swap partition rather than a
swap file...It would certainly not setup anything on an NTFS drive

In all the years I've used Linux live cd's they never had any effect on
the Windows install other than what I chose to modify
 
G

glee

philo said:
Now that I think of it you are right...
the user must have made some other error.
Not only is it true about Linux using a swap partition rather than a
swap file...It would certainly not setup anything on an NTFS drive

In all the years I've used Linux live cd's they never had any effect
on the Windows install other than what I chose to modify
Exactly. I too have been using a variety of Linux Live CDs for over a
decade, and they simply do not touch the hard drives or mount them for
anything, unless and until the user allows it.
 
B

BillW50

In philo typed:
Now that I think of it you are right...
the user must have made some other error.
Not only is it true about Linux using a swap partition rather than a
swap file...It would certainly not setup anything on an NTFS drive

In all the years I've used Linux live cd's they never had any effect
on the Windows install other than what I chose to modify
Nope, Zaphod is mistaken and owes us an apology. Paul and I discussed
this in great length a couple of years back. And no, it isn't user
error, unless you count booting Ubuntu Live as user error.

It happened on this very machine back in 2009, and booting up Ubuntu
Live 8.10 from a SD card. This XP has the swapfile turned off because it
runs from a SSD. And booting Ubuntu Live and doing absolutely nothing
from it except shutting it down once it is loaded. Then booting XP back
up and the background of the desktop shows up, no taskbar yet, and a
window saying Windows Installer and nothing else and it stills there
forever.

You can access the Task Manager by ALT-CTRL-DEL, but there is not much
you can do there. I quickly discovered if I rename iband.dll (a toolbar
gadget from US Robotics) I could get XP to boot. Although to get iband
working again, I had to restore XP from a backup. Paul explained that
Ubuntu Live could use the Windows swapfile for it's own use. And creates
one if it is missing.

I am sure I can demonstrate this anywhere at anytime. As it happens
every single time it is tried. And one has to question about the ethnics
of Linux code. As if they are willing to do this behind the user's back,
what else are they capable of doing?
 
B

BillW50

In glee typed:
Exactly. I too have been using a variety of Linux Live CDs for over a
decade, and they simply do not touch the hard drives or mount them for
anything, unless and until the user allows it.
That isn't true Glen. The one who compiles Linux has that and more
opinions available. I take it you never compiled Linux before?
 
G

glee

BillW50 said:
In glee typed:

That isn't true Glen. The one who compiles Linux has that and more
opinions available. I take it you never compiled Linux before?
No user compiling is involved in running a Live CD, so I don't see how
that is relevant. The user downloads the .iso, burns the image to a CD
or creates the bootable USB drive. Done.
You stated you used an Ubuntu Live CD and this happened... I've been
using Ubuntu Live CDs for some time and have never seen this behavior.
Tell me in what version you saw this behavior, I'll download and make
the Live CD or USB stick, and see if the behavior you report is
reproduced. It hasn't been in any of the versions I have used.
 
S

slate_leeper

What is the OS ? { Home vs. Pro, etc... }
First line of my original post:
XP Professional, SP2. 500gb SATA drive, using 74gig.
Have you checked the permissions on that file such that you can delete it ?
Obviously. Also, as I posted, none of the "remove on reboot" utilities
worked.
Have you contacted http://www.pcwintech.com/ support ?
No, I finally figured it out myself.





__
Those who live by the sword
get shot by those who don't.
 
B

BillW50

In
glee said:
No user compiling is involved in running a Live CD, so I don't see how
that is relevant. The user downloads the .iso, burns the image to a
CD or creates the bootable USB drive. Done.
Oh compiling the source code is very relevant! As here is were you can
choose to have the live distro use the Windows swapfile or not if found.
Once it is compiled, it is too late to change it.
You stated you used an Ubuntu Live CD and this happened... I've been
using Ubuntu Live CDs for some time and have never seen this behavior.
Tell me in what version you saw this behavior, I'll download and make
the Live CD or USB stick, and see if the behavior you report is
reproduced. It hasn't been in any of the versions I have used.
I just posted all of the details to Philo in this very subthread just
yesterday. In fact, a few minutes before my post to you which you just
replied too. I think the key is having US Robotics iband installed (it's
free). Without it, I probably would have never known Ubuntu Live was
messing around in the Windows partition.

Paul also mentioned back in March of 2011, that he had caught the Live
distros poking around where they shouldn't be as well. Here is the
repost below.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Paul <nospam@needed.com>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Windows not load
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 21:48:02 -0400
I did that Paul! Although Windows XP was running fine, I just wanted
to try Linux Live. After all I was told it wouldn't hurt a thing.

WRONG! Linux Live toasted my Windows XP install! And after hundreds of
hours of investigation it turns out that Linux Live really touches
your Windows XP install. Oh it sounds harmless and all, as all it
wants is to borrow the Windows swap file for its own purpose.

The problem was that I was running Windows XP on a SSD. And excessive
writes kills SSD. So I turned off the XP swap file. Ubuntu Live in
return gets mad and toasts your Windows install.

So I think you should warn people Paul. So others don't make the same
mistake that I had.
I can't report I've had a similar experience.

But my systems have nothing but hard drives.

The only practice I don't approve on, from the Linux community, is
"scanning" of drives as part of the startup sequence. Some LiveCD
distros, are known to "search" for a copy of the image you're booting
from. Presumably the purpose, is to do a loopback mount of the image,
as a replacement for accessing the CD itself. But I still don't
approve of monkey-business. A LiveCD should just mind its own business.

If you have a "toasted install", it sure would be nice to tell us what
got toasted, so we can judge the mechanism.

The older releases of Knoppix (5 series), used to bring up foreign
file systems read-only, as a precaution. (You had to tick something
in a dialog to go read/write.) But newer releases enable read/write
(presumably because the NTFS driver is now more trusted than it used to
be).

And yes, I have seen re-use of the page file. The Kaspersky scanner,
which is based on Gentoo, seems to like to use the Windows pagefile
for swap. The easiest way to tell this, is to use the "top" command,
and see how much swap is evident in the display. Then, correlate that
with the size of pagefiles on your various partitions. It's not really
a big deal, but also not the best practice I can think of.

I've worked with plenty of older LiveCDs, where they don't provide swap
automatically
(because there may be no place to put it), and if the OS is then put
under
memory pressure, the OS will crash. (It seems at least a few LiveCDs,
have had poor tuning of a couple of kernel parameters. I've noticed
that improved on some of them, so somebody figured it out.) If you're
using one of the older LiveCDs, then either do your own "swapon", or at
least watch with vmstat, how full you're getting.

Paul
 
P

philo

No user compiling is involved in running a Live CD, so I don't see how
that is relevant. The user downloads the .iso, burns the image to a CD
or creates the bootable USB drive. Done.
You stated you used an Ubuntu Live CD and this happened... I've been
using Ubuntu Live CDs for some time and have never seen this behavior.
Tell me in what version you saw this behavior, I'll download and make
the Live CD or USB stick, and see if the behavior you report is
reproduced. It hasn't been in any of the versions I have used.

This whole thread is getting a bit weird.
I have never had a Linux live cd do anything to a Windows installation
unless I specifically did something...
but I have evidence that if a live Linux cd is used to access an
existing *Linux* installation it will use an existing swap partition if
there is one. I fooled with this a few days ago.

OTOH: I can't imagine any "home user" downloading a Linux iso
then recompiling the source code
 
B

BillW50

In
philo said:
This whole thread is getting a bit weird.
I have never had a Linux live cd do anything to a Windows installation
unless I specifically did something...
but I have evidence that if a live Linux cd is used to access an
existing *Linux* installation it will use an existing swap partition
if there is one. I fooled with this a few days ago.

OTOH: I can't imagine any "home user" downloading a Linux iso
then recompiling the source code
Yes, one automatically assumes if you boot the Live distro, it won't
touch your Windows install. But sadly I discovered otherwise. As all you
have to do is to boot the Live distro. Then do nothing except to shut it
down and then boot Windows XP once again and XP hangs before the desktop
fully loads. If I didn't have US Robotics iband installed, I don't think
you would ever seen Windows hang after booting the Live distro. Plus
that machine has the Windows swapfile turned off. I don't know if that
is important or not.

And true most home user never has to get down to compiling the source
code. Although some Xandros EeePC users did. As they originally compiled
Linux to use only up to 1GB of RAM and the machine can accept up to 2GB.
Plus you have to recompile Xandros if you want anything newer than
Thunderbird 1.5, Firefox 2, and Open Office 2. As the kernel needs to be
updated for anything newer to run. And this job is left up to the home
user to do unfortunately.

Although the part about why compiling is important here, as that is
where one gets to choose whether or not Live grabs the Windows swapfile
for its own use or not. Sadly, the home user has no say so after it is
compiled. Nor does Linux give the home user a heads up on whether it is
doing so or not.
 
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V

VanguardLH

David H. Lipman said:
From: "slate_leeper"


OK, which was... ?
Shhhh, it's a secret. The red spot on his forehead where he slapped
himself after saying "DOH!" has already faded.

He still hasn't figured out how to properly append a valid signature.
 

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