two monitors, on-chip video card, no PCI slots

[runcyclexcski]

I have a ~2004 Dell Dimension PC with XP which has an on-chip
videocard. I would like to add a second monitor, to expand the
resolution from 1024x768 to twice as much width-wise. The motherboard
does not appear to have an additional video card slot. All available
PCI slots are taken by OEM data aquisition cards.

What are my options? I've heard USB monitors are "slow", but I am not
sure how "slow". I need the 2nd monitor to display plots of scientific
data, not for gaming.

 

[Ron Martell]

I have a ~2004 Dell Dimension PC with XP which has an on-chip
videocard. I would like to add a second monitor, to expand the
resolution from 1024x768 to twice as much width-wise. The motherboard
does not appear to have an additional video card slot. All available
PCI slots are taken by OEM data aquisition cards.

What are my options? I've heard USB monitors are "slow", but I am not
sure how "slow". I need the 2nd monitor to display plots of scientific
data, not for gaming.

You are pretty much out of options, except for:

a: Acquiring a new motherboard with more slots. This could cause
more problems than it solves.

b: Acquiring different data acquisition cards so as to reduce the
number of PCI slots required for these.

One additional possible problem. Most computers with on-chip video
do not support multiple display options using the on-chip video as one
of the displays. On most of these machines the on-chip video is
automatically disabled whenever a video card is detected.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2008)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
Syberfix Remote Computer Repair

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."

 

[runcyclexcski]

Ron - are there replicators for PCI slots? Can I make two PCI slots
out of one?

If this does not work I will have to get a new motherboard with more
PCI slots.

 

[runcyclexcski]

....actually, the comp is a Dell Dimension 3000 which appears to be
problematic to find a replacement motherboard for.

 

[Dave B.]

No you cannot. You will run into even more problems swapping out the
motherboard, as you may need to do a repair install afterwards, and you
won't be able to do it with the Dell recovery CD.

 

[Dave B.]

The only replacement you'll find for it is the identical board. You'll need
to look 3rd party like Asus, you will then run into problems with it booting
after the replacement is installed more than likely.

 

[runcyclexcski]

O-kay - now I am thinking about a larger resolution screen. I listed
all possible display modes for my card adapter, and it goes up to only
1280 width-wise. What a lame PC. I guess I won't be able to run
widescreen 1920-wide screens from - will I?

 

[Bob I]

Try Matrox Dualhead 2Go external adapter

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gxm/products/home.php

 

[Ron Martell]

Ron - are there replicators for PCI slots? Can I make two PCI slots
out of one?

Never seen one and a Google search fails to turn up anything
constructive. They are available for laptops (docking stations) and
there are some for the new PCI-express type slots but nothing for PCI
slots that I can find.

If this does not work I will have to get a new motherboard with more
PCI slots.

And as others have said that could be very problematic.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2008)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
Syberfix Remote Computer Repair

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."

 

[runcyclexcski]

Try Matrox Dualhead 2Go external adapter

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gxm/products/home.php

Bob - looks interesting. The specs say that a "Display driver
supporting 2048 x 768 or 2560 x 1024 resolution"... is required. My
driver for the on-chip card (Intel 82865G) suppors up to 1280x768
only. Do you think I can upgrade the driver and make it work both with
the old and the new hardware?

 

[Bob I]

Bob - looks interesting. The specs say that a "Display driver
supporting 2048 x 768 or 2560 x 1024 resolution"... is required. My
driver for the on-chip card (Intel 82865G) suppors up to 1280x768
only. Do you think I can upgrade the driver and make it work both with
the old and the new hardware?

You would need to try. The driver, if it exists would be found at Intel.

 

[Paul]

Bob - looks interesting. The specs say that a "Display driver
supporting 2048 x 768 or 2560 x 1024 resolution"... is required. My
driver for the on-chip card (Intel 82865G) suppors up to 1280x768
only. Do you think I can upgrade the driver and make it work both with
the old and the new hardware?

There is a review here:

http://anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2621

Paul

 

[runcyclexcski]

Got the latest driver from Intel, and the latest driver still does not
support anything more than 1280x. I guess I have to give it up with
this comp.

 

[RalfG]

The chipset does support higher resolutions, the monitor likely doesn't, or
not the same resolutions. From the Intel datasheet:

"The GMCH's analog port uses an integrated 350 MHz RAMDAC that can directly
drive a standard progressive scan analog monitor up to a resolution of
2048x1536 pixels with 32-bit color at 75 Hz

The GMCH's DVO ports are each capable of driving a 165 MHz pixel clock. Each
port is capable of driving a digital display up to 1600x1200 @ 60Hz. When in
dual-channel mode, the GMCH can drive a flat panel up to 2048x1536 @ 60Hz or
dCRT/HDTV up to 1920x1080 @ 85Hz."

The whole thing is here:
http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/25251405.pdf

Non-supported modes could be blocked from displaying in Windows. If so,
only the resolutions compatible with both the monitor and the graphics
chipset will be displayed.

http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-022544.htm

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

You have run into a problem faced by many when buying budget computers from
major manufacturers.. they are 'budget' for good reason, no reason being
that you are getting anything close to a good deal..

Sales will tell you that is is easily upgradeable, but then they would say
that.. even in stores, nobody will remove the side panel and show you just
how upgradeable..

Got the latest driver from Intel, and the latest driver still does not
support anything more than 1280x. I guess I have to give it up with
this comp.

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Paul]

Ron - are there replicators for PCI slots? Can I make two PCI slots
out of one?

If this does not work I will have to get a new motherboard with more
PCI slots.

There are PCI expansion chassis. An example is shown here.

http://www.magma.com/products/pci/4PCI/

How this works, is there is a PCI bridge implementation on two
cards. One card plugs into the original PCI bus. A cable extends
from this interface card, to the expansion chassis. At the expansion
chassis, the signals from the cable are converted into something suitable
for driving the second PCI bus segment.

The performance impact is - bus bandwidth is preserved. The bus still has
its "133MB/sec" theoretical burst bandwidth (closer to 100-110MB/sec in
practice). But the "first cycle latency" is higher. There are one or more
cycles of PCI bus delay, going from the originating computer, to a PCI card
in the expansion chassis. And what that means, is doing single word cycles
on the expansion chassis address space, is a lot slower. So as long as the
data is travelling in bursts, the first cycle latency is manageable (amortized
with respect to the size of the burst). But if the PCI card in the expansion
chassis, is accessed and controlled with a lot of single word operations,
performance plummets.

You would need to juggle the PCI cards, to get the best performance. If
the data acquisition cards had low data rates, they might be good candidates
for the expansion chassis.

If you look at the price of the expansion chassis, that might put you off.
A better selected new computer, might be cheaper. But for people with a
large number of PCI cards, a box like this may be an inviting option.

The DualHead2Go compatibility table is here. It appears the max you could
expect, is two screens at 1024x768. The limit is likely that the 865GV cannot
handle a line wider than 2048.

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/cadgis/support/dh2go/compatibility.php

The datasheet for the 865GV is here, and many important details are missing.
(No register map for video that I can see. No way to see whether the 2048 is
hardware enforced.)

http://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/25251405.pdf

Paul